christemmbassey:
SMH! Wonders ! Wonders!! Wonder!!!

It is indeed a good thing that u are shaking ur head, but so sad that u know not the real reason why ur shaking it. Shake it harder ok!
"My people perish for lack of knowledge!"

leorayvon2k2:


If u understand simlitude Hosea 12:10 u will knw wat am talking abt.. Jesus being the express image of the invincible God.. the is if u want to see god in a being u see Jesus ..while adam is the express image of jesus...

Having said dat u should know God gave adam dominion over the birds of the air. sea and land..and over everything GOd made.. He made him a king gen 1 vs 26.


God declared him the king of all ki gs wen he said to the angels and the host of heaven .. this is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased hear ye him just as he declared jesus after baptism..thats when satan got jesus and ploted his downfall not also knowing that adam was aware of the plot but played along because God has showed him the end from that beginning....just as satan came to plot jesus downfall not known he was playing along... se God is the best planner the master crafter..... u dont need to aak why is the world like this.. its all for a reason it has hbeen planned before creation. ...this is the defination of good from evil

Plssssssssss! Who has indoctrinated u with this poison? Sorry I call it poison, but this belief is indeed poisonous! Ooooohh! Christianity! What have u done to ur followers?

christemmbassey:
why atheists are always intrested in christianity? I wonder!

If Jesus appear again among u people to condemn what u and ur pastors have built up as belief and doctrine, u will immediately and aggressively shout as before: kill him on the cross!

Shawl001:
. No you re not..y are a church goer...(Sorry to say that you). You've proven to me that, U̶̲̥̅̊ re ignorant øƒ certain things... Christ's death on the cross has wiped off all sins in the world.. What's left now is ƒσя us to abide in Him..(John15:1-5)....speaks more. Sin is powerless. Its been rendered powerless by Jesus, cos' Jesus fulfilled the whole Law. (1Pet.2:22) says, Jesus was without sin, no guile was found in His mouth. He was righteous all through till His death. Now, He has made us righteousness øƒ God. We are no longer condemned...(Romans8:1).. So, as a child øƒ God, you re always right with God..U̶̲̥̅̊ can come to His presence any time. That's the privilege we have In Jesus.....#TeamHeaven#

Pls reconcile ur assertion that Christ wiped away every sin in the world with His statement that; whatsoever a man soweth that shall he reap. What's wrong with our thinking and reasoning faculties? Even one of the vast writers of the scriptures made a statement like: For we know in parts but when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done away with. This statement of Paul alone should ring bell and bestir people for genuine seeking. Jesus said, seek and ye shall find, ask and it shall be given. Instead of asking and seeking spiritual knowledge that's to lead us to the Truth, we are asking and seeking material gains, making ourselves victims for pastors whose interest and focus are on our money to enrich themselves. Broad is the way that lead to destruction and many are they who walk on it. Broad and easy way with cheap belief for spiritual comfort which only lull them to mental laziness and sleep of death.
Fellow enlightened ones, there's no point casting pearl before swine, even the gods themselves fight in vain against stupidity.

bsjay:

Pls reconcile ur assertion that Christ wiped away every sin in the world with His statement that; whatsoever a man soweth that shall he reap. What's wrong with our thinking and reasoning faculties? Even one of the vast writers of the scriptures made a statement like: For we know in parts but when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done away with. This statement of Paul alone should ring bell and bestir people for genuine seeking. Jesus said, seek and ye shall find, ask and it shall be given. Instead of asking and seeking spiritual knowledge that's to lead us to the Truth, we are asking and seeking material gains, making ourselves victims for pastors whose interest and focus are on our money to enrich themselves. Broad is the way that lead to destruction and many are they who walk on it. Broad and easy way with cheap belief for spiritual comfort which only lull them to mental laziness and sleep of death.
Fellow enlightened ones, there's no point casting pearl before swine, even the gods themselves fight in vain against stupidity.

. Bro, dis is not about following a pastor or not. This is about establishing a personal relationship with your God through Jesus. I don't know what else to say again,,,and don't think i'm trying to CONVINCE you... Nah! I'm only providing answers to the questions been asked. It all done. Ders nothing to convince the world about. If U̶̲̥̅̊ get the revelation, lucky are you..and if you don't, the god øƒ this world must have blinded your eyes not to see the truth. Perhaps, U̶̲̥̅̊ hunger ƒσя the truth, ask the holy spirit.. Or read some øƒ my previous comments...*that's if U̶̲̥̅̊ want*. Anyway, the truth standeth sure, nothing shaky, the Lord knows those that are His. ..good morning and enjoy ur day.....#TeamHeaven#

bsjay:

Plssssssssss! Who has indoctrinated u with this poison? Sorry I call it poison, but this belief is indeed poisonous! Ooooohh! Christianity! What have u done to ur followers?

U need the spirit of revelation. ... come into the ark.

Expressions:

Ok I'll start with this:
First thing you should note is that the books in the Bible were not originally written in the English text. I had to compare different versions of the Bible. The one you quoted above was KJV. Now observe the three versions below.

Note that:John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

The reason why His blood is linked with His work of Redemption is, He (Jesus) did not shun physical death, but remained steadfast and calmly faced death for the sake of the Truth He brought. With His blood on the Cross He fortified their faith in the Truth of His words.
But this does not mean that you do not have to redeem (wash) your own sins!
Only now it is easy for you, because by bringing the Truth Jesus has shown you the way in His Words.

Excuse me pls, are you saying we have a part to play in the salvation of our souls? the completed work of Christ on the cross is not enough? pls come again.

leorayvon2k2:


U need the spirit of revelation. ... come into the ark.

What ark pls? What spirit of revelation are u talking about here? Are u mistaking seducing spirit the bible talks about for spirit of revelation? Sleep on ok!

Shawl001:
. Bro, dis is not about following a pastor or not. This is about establishing a personal relationship with your God through Jesus. I don't know what else to say again,,,and don't think i'm trying to CONVINCE you... Nah! I'm only providing answers to the questions been asked. It all done. Ders nothing to convince the world about. If U̶̲̥̅̊ get the revelation, lucky are you..and if you don't, the god øƒ this world must have blinded your eyes not to see the truth. Perhaps, U̶̲̥̅̊ hunger ƒσя the truth, ask the holy spirit.. Or read some øƒ my previous comments...*that's if U̶̲̥̅̊ want*. Anyway, the truth standeth sure, nothing shaky, the Lord knows those that are His. ..good morning and enjoy ur day.....#TeamHeaven#

It's laughable! U didn't answer a very simple question I put up to u. Christ said, "whatsoever a man soweth that shall he also reap!" U said, "the death of Christ on the cross wiped away every sin in the world." and I said, reconcile the statement of Christ with urs. Pls am waiting!

bsjay:

It's laughable! U didn't answer a very simple question I put up to u. Christ said, "whatsoever a man soweth that shall he also reap!" U said, "the death of Christ on the cross wiped away every sin in the world." and I said, reconcile the statement of Christ with urs. Pls am waiting!

. Can U̶̲̥̅̊ pls tell me where Jesus made that statement and to whom?....well to ur question: Christ wiped away all øƒ our sins. Nothing remaining.

Shawl001:
. Can U̶̲̥̅̊ pls tell me where Jesus made that statement and to whom?....well to ur question: Christ wiped away all øƒ our sins. Nothing remaining.

Congratulations! I really admire ur importance and worth that Christ had to pay even in advance for all the evil u are still perpetrating in thoughts, words and deeds. Goodluck to uuuuuuuuuuuuuu... One day, more than soon, the bandage will fall but it will already be too too late!

bsjay:

Congratulations! I really admire ur importance and worth that Christ had to pay even in advance for all the evil u are still perpetrating in thoughts, words and deeds. Goodluck to uuuuuuuuuuuuuu... One day, more than soon, the bandage will fall but it will already be too too late!

. Ooh common! You didn't answer my question oooh...and wait a minute, what are U̶̲̥̅̊ fighting ƒσя? Where do U̶̲̥̅̊ belong?

Shawl001:
. Ooh common! You didn't answer my question oooh...and wait a minute, what are U̶̲̥̅̊ fighting ƒσя? Where do U̶̲̥̅̊ belong?

I didn't sense any question in what u wrote. Again, did I hear u say "fight"? No dear, we don't fight, we only try to help those who are not completely spiritually dead, like what this brother here is doing though it turns out sometimes like casting pearl before swine. Out of thousands out there, there are hundreds who are already tired of the broad and easy way with cheap and destructive belief and doctrines that only lead to damnation. With their tiredness a seeking arose in them and for their sake, u see us everywhere offering enlightenment that leads to the recognition of the Will Of God. If by chance u come across it, quietly go ur way.
At this point, let me draw ur attention back to the parable of Jesus that says; The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a treasure hid in a field, everyone passes through that field but could not find It. But when one man discovered It, he went and sold all he had to come and buy that field!
Again, with His parable of the ten virgins, He Himself had foreseen the occupants of the world being divided into two. All His parables have been fulfilled today.
So, hold on to what u are holding on to without troubling urself ok! Good luck to u.

An2elect2:


Excuse me pls, are you saying we have a part to play in the salvation of our souls? the completed work of Christ on the cross is not enough? pls come again.

Sorry I've been away.

Actually, I didn't say anything personally. I didn't also imply that He going to the extent of facing death, despite His warnings against the plot to murder Him, wasn't enough. -
If you noticed, I opened this thread because of the the biblical references that pointed to the fact that Christ was against the plot to have Him killed.

But to answer your question, I'd say Christ was victorious, He vanquished the darkness even in the face of death. The darkness tempted Him with death thinking He would flee but Christ faced death and the machination of the darkness was conquered and our salvation was guaranteed... all we have to do is follow the Way opened to us by Christ in His Word to be saved in the end.
That's the effort we have to apply. That Christ faced death shows the seriousness of His Mission which is to show us the Way. We are to apply the pure Teachings of His undiluted Words to our daily lives.

We don't have to be perfect overnight, but we must strive towards it so that in the end we may be pleasing and worthy in His Eyes.

But if after having come across His Teachings, one willfully goes against them in ones lifestyle, then such a person is doomed to going astray which leads to destruction in the end.

So yes Christ's death on the cross is more than sufficient (what can be more than giving a life). Sufficient enough to keep faith and trust in Him alive that we may live our lives in the way shown to us in His Word; that's our little contribution, knowing that His death didn't take away our sins; it didn't make us perfect overnight...rather those who partook in His death incurred a greater sin. in fact by accusing Him falsely and murdering Him, mankind incurred a grave sin!

Hope I came a bit close in answering your questions.

Shawl001:
. No you re not..y are a church goer...(Sorry to say that you). You've proven to me that, U̶̲̥̅̊ re ignorant øƒ certain things... Christ's death on the cross has wiped off all sins in the world.. What's left now is ƒσя us to abide in Him..(John15:1-5)....speaks more. Sin is powerless. Its been rendered powerless by Jesus, cos' Jesus fulfilled the whole Law. (1Pet.2:22) says, Jesus was without sin, no guile was found in His mouth. He was righteous all through till His death. Now, He has made us righteousness øƒ God. We are no longer condemned...(Romans8:1).. So, as a child øƒ God, you re always right with God..U̶̲̥̅̊ can come to His presence any time. That's the privilege we have In Jesus.....#TeamHeaven#

Apology accepted, it doesn't matter what matters is that you are a Christian who abides in Him through living your life in accordance with His Teachings without which your sins remain.
Give thanks to God that He sent Him to show us how to overcome temptation and consequently sin thereby making sin (which had a strong hold on us) powerless over us.
Strive to abide in Him in your daily life so that you can emerge victorious (Revelation 7:14)out of great tribulation, (consequently it invariably means you) have washed your robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Remain blessed.

Expressions:


Apology accepted, it doesn't matter what matters is that you are a Christian who abides in Him through living your life in accordance with His Teachings without which your sins remain.
Give thanks to God that He sent Him to show us how to overcome temptation and consequently sin thereby making sin (which had a strong hold on us) powerless over us.
Strive to abide in Him in your daily life so that you can emerge victorious (Revelation 7:14)out of great tribulation, (consequently it invariably means you) have washed your robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Remain blessed.

. Thanks! I wish you have the same encounter too. Cos' that's why Jesus came to planet earth, to die ƒσя us all...to free us from the bondage øƒ sin. God's grace abide with you. Take care!

which of d blessings of ur Lord would u deny?

Expressions:

Sorry I've been away.

Welcome back.

Expressions:

Actually, I didn't say anything personally. I didn't also imply that He going to the extent of facing death, despite His warnings against the plot to murder Him, wasn't enough. -
If you noticed, I opened this thread because of the the biblical references that pointed to the fact that Christ was against the plot to have Him killed.

Alright. But i dunno your thread and posts are not straight forward. Somewhere along the line am getting the impression that you are saying his death was by chance even though it was foreknown? it was not his plan to die and yet that was the only way sin could be conquered?

Expressions:

But to answer your question, I'd say Christ was victorious, He vanquished the darkness even in the face of death. The darkness tempted Him with death thinking He would flee but Christ faced death and the machination of the darkness was conquered and our salvation was guaranteed...

I agree with this....but this down here..no.

Expressions:

all we have to do is follow the Way opened to us by Christ in His Word to be saved in the end.
That's the effort we have to apply.

i take it that you believe salvation should be worked for. No? we shouldn't mind the scripture that says it is by grace? How do you go about obtaining and keeping this salvation till the end? do you mind sharing?

Expressions:

That Christ faced death shows the seriousness of His Mission which is to show us the Way. We are to apply the pure Teachings of His undiluted Words to our daily lives.

Christ died not to redeem us from our sins but to show us the way to redeem ourselves and even in our daily work we strive by ourselves? nothing about our strength in Christ? no power from outside ourselves in spite of our unwilling flesh?

Expressions:

We don't have to be perfect overnight, but we must strive towards it so that in the end we may be pleasing and worthy in His Eyes.

Yes i believe we must strive towards perfection but whose power are we appealing to here?

Expressions:

But if after having come across His Teachings, one willfully goes against them in ones lifestyle, then such a person is doomed to going astray which leads to destruction in the end.

yes this is true but am afraid the application used here might be wrong.

Expressions post= 30255986]
So yes Christ's death on the cross is more than sufficient (what can be more than giving a life). Sufficient enough to keep faith and trust in Him alive that we may live our lives in the way shown to us in His Word; that's our little contribution, knowing that His death didn't take away our sins; it didn't make us perfect overnight...rather those who partook in His death incurred a greater sin. in fact by accusing Him falsely and murdering Him, mankind incurred a grave sin!
[/quote]

Without the shedding of blood can any sin be remitted? If Christ's blood did not wipe out the sins of those he died for(He died for some not all) what will? our obedience?

[quote author=Expressions:

Hope I came a bit close in answering your questions

lol you made me ask more questions.

Shawl001:
. Thanks! I wish you have the same encounter too. Cos' that's why Jesus came to planet earth, to die ƒσя us all...to free us from the bondage øƒ sin. God's grace abide with you. Take care!

That's why I opened this thread because I found statements in the Bible reported as being spoken by the Son of God Himself during His sojourn on earth which is in contradistinction to the above highlighted words.

I quoted several statements of Christ as reported in the Bible which led to my questioning the accustomed doctrines and dogma, which finally led to my conclusion.

Not that I'm trying to be convincing here.

Now all you can do here is quote just a few statements of Jesus Himself (not from 'posthumous' books like the Acts) where He asserted that He came to let Himself be killed. Then we'll have something tangible to talk about.

Below is attached the purpose for which He came into this world; note that was a direct speech.

I'm sure you know what Truth is? Or are you going to also ask me: "And what is the Truth?"

Regards.

Aareeasy:
which of d blessings of ur Lord would u deny?

Rhetorical?

An2elect2:

Welcome back.


Alright. But i dunno your thread and posts are not straight forward. Somewhere along the line am getting the impression that you are saying his death was by chance even though it was foreknown? it was not his plan to die and yet that was the only way sin could be conquered?



I agree with this....but this down here..no.



i take it that you believe salvation should be worked for. No? we shouldn't mind the scripture that says it is by grace? How do you go about obtaining and keeping this salvation till the end? do you mind sharing?



Christ died not to redeem us from our sins but to show us the way to redeem ourselves and even in our daily work we strive by ourselves? nothing about our strength in Christ? no power from outside ourselves in spite of our unwilling flesh?



Yes i believe we must strive towards perfection but whose power are we appealing to here?



yes this is true but am afraid the application used here might be wrong.



Without the shedding of blood can any sin be remitted? If Christ's blood did not wipe out the sins of those he died for(He died for some not all) what will? our obedience?


lol you made me ask more questions.

Goodness! An2elect2... see how you used "Religious Scissors" to dissect and shred my post to pieces. Hmm, I got to give it to you, you're trying... with your questions, I must say that you're trying.... trying my patience, that is.

But seriously now, I appreciate your input, I understand where you're coming from and what you're driving at. You just made me appreciate how deeply rooted are the church doctrines in the subconscious mind of the average Christian. I know all that you have pointed out.

But as a Christian, I owe my allegiance first to my Lord Jesus Christ. I'm sure we both agree on this. If you do, then do you know the implication of the above highlighted words/questions of yours?

The question is:

Are you implying He, the Son of God was trying to go against the Will of His Father which was to come and get killed?

Kindly read through my post, I quoted direct statements of Christ according to the Bible including the Parable of the Husbandman which channelz added, where He clearly and sternly warned against the plot to kill/murder Him.

An2elect2 that's the crux of this thread. It is not straight forward like you said because it is not in tandem with the hitherto accustomed church doctrine we all grew up knowing.

Sorry I answered your questions with a question. When the main issue has been settled, I'll gladly use my spiritual razor to dissect your questions.
lol...

Regards.

Expressions:

Sorry I've been away.

Actually, I didn't say anything personally. I didn't also imply that He going to the extent of facing death, despite His warnings against the plot to murder Him, wasn't enough. -
If you noticed, I opened this thread because of the the biblical references that pointed to the fact that Christ was against the plot to have Him killed.

But to answer your question, I'd say Christ was victorious, He vanquished the darkness even in the face of death. The darkness tempted Him with death thinking He would flee but Christ faced death and the machination of the darkness was conquered and our salvation was guaranteed... all we have to do is follow the Way opened to us by Christ in His Word to be saved in the end.
That's the effort we have to apply. That Christ faced death shows the seriousness of His Mission which is to show us the Way. We are to apply the pure Teachings of His undiluted Words to our daily lives.

We don't have to be perfect overnight, but we must strive towards it so that in the end we may be pleasing and worthy in His Eyes.

But if after having come across His Teachings, one willfully goes against them in ones lifestyle, then such a person is doomed to going astray which leads to destruction in the end.

So yes Christ's death on the cross is more than sufficient (what can be more than giving a life). Sufficient enough to keep faith and trust in Him alive that we may live our lives in the way shown to us in His Word; that's our little contribution, knowing that His death didn't take away our sins; it didn't make us perfect overnight...rather those who partook in His death incurred a greater sin. in fact by accusing Him falsely and murdering Him, mankind incurred a grave sin!

Hope I came a bit close in answering your questions.

with this type of post, it is very clear that you don't know why Christ came/died/resurected. I wish, I can make you undastand, but I'v stoped Nl arguments. Stay blessed.

christemmbassey:
with this type of post, it is very clear that you don't know why Christ came/died/resurected. I wish, I can make you undastand, but I'v stoped Nl arguments. Stay blessed.

Expressions:


That's why I opened this thread because I found statements in the Bible reported as being spoken by the Son of God Himself during His sojourn on earth which is in contradistinction to the above highlighted words.

I quoted several statements of Christ as reported in the Bible which led to my questioning the accustomed doctrines and dogma, which finally led to my conclusion.

Not that I'm trying to be convincing here.

Now all you can do here is quote just a few statements of Jesus Himself (not from 'posthumous' books like the Acts) where He asserted that He came to let Himself be killed. Then we'll have something tangible to talk about.
Regards.

Leave out the argument okay.
Do the needful @bolded

An2elect2:

Welcome back.


Alright. But i dunno your thread and posts are not straight forward. Somewhere along the line am getting the impression that you are saying his death was by chance even though it was foreknown? it was not his plan to die and yet that was the only way sin could be conquered?



I agree with this....but this down here..no.



i take it that you believe salvation should be worked for. No? we shouldn't mind the scripture that says it is by grace? How do you go about obtaining and keeping this salvation till the end? do you mind sharing?



Christ died not to redeem us from our sins but to show us the way to redeem ourselves and even in our daily work we strive by ourselves? nothing about our strength in Christ? no power from outside ourselves in spite of our unwilling flesh?



Yes i believe we must strive towards perfection but whose power are we appealing to here?



yes this is true but am afraid the application used here might be wrong.



Without the shedding of blood can any sin be remitted? If Christ's blood did not wipe out the sins of those he died for(He died for some not all) what will? our obedience?


lol you made me ask more questions.

Incisive questions I must say.

The bolded caught my attention because some Christians would rather you say He died for the whole world. He came actually for the entire mankind. Why would you deviate a bit to saying He died for some? How would you convince your fellow Christians?

I ask because at a point I saw in the bible where He said something about "for many"..... not for all.

christemmbassey:
with this type of post, it is very clear that you don't know why Christ came/died/resurected. I wish, I can make you undastand, but I'v stoped Nl arguments. Stay blessed.

Why not tell us how much you understand of Him instead. You can tell us Christ didn't mean those words he uttered against them killing him even calling the perpetrators children of the devil. Then it will be clear.

Expressions:


Goodness! An2elect2... see how you used "Religious Scissors" to dissect and shred my post to pieces. Hmm, I got to give it to you, you're trying... with your questions, I must say that you're trying.... trying my patience, that is.

But seriously now, I appreciate your input, I understand where you're coming from and what you're driving at. You just made me appreciate how deeply rooted are the church doctrines in the subconscious mind of the average Christian. I know all that you have pointed out.

But as a Christian, I owe my allegiance first to my Lord Jesus Christ. I'm sure we both agree on this. If you do, then do you know the implication of the above highlighted words/questions of yours?

The question is:

Are you implying He, the Son of God was trying to go against the Will of His Father which was to come and get killed?

Kindly read through my post, I quoted direct statements of Christ according to the Bible including the Parable of the Husbandman which channelz added, where He clearly and sternly warned against the plot to kill/murder Him.

An2elect2 that's the crux of this thread. It is not straight forward like you said because it is not in tandem with the hitherto accustomed church doctrine we all grew up knowing.

Sorry I answered your questions with a question. When the main issue has been settled, I'll gladly use my spiritual razor to dissect your questions.
lol...

Regards.

Oh! okay. Still following.

iamjane:


Incisive questions I must say.

The bolded caught my attention because some Christians would rather you say He died for the whole world. He came actually for the entire mankind. Why would you deviate a bit to saying He died for some? How would you convince your fellow Christians?

I ask because at a point I saw in the bible where He said something about "for many"..... not for all.

iamjane i totally believe that Christ died for a select few and not everyone. This is not a dogma i got from some church out there... this is lucid scriptural teaching.

Contrary to what so many believe which is that Christ died for everybody and his death only provided a possibility for salvation, the scripture teaches that Christ died for a people, his people along side securing their salvation, absolutely.

Am glad you saw a part in scripture where it says "many" and even when "all" is being used it doesn't mean " a head to head count" i.e everyone born into this world.

Am going to post scriptures that point to particular atonement soon

Cc: iamjane.
Cc: Expressions.

Matth 1:21, "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shall call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins" pls take note of the significance of the expression "his people".
Here it is important for us to know that Christ's coming to this world and his meritorious work on the cross was for "his people", a distinct people.

Galatians 1:4, "Who gave himself for our sins that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father."
"our sins" cannot be said to be referring to the sins of every man cos Paul's letter and all his letters was/were for those in the church. The evil world is not cosmos but real people who are evil, all what they stand for,their lusts et al. Just saying...

Ephesians 5:25, " Husbands love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church and gave himself for it."

Acts 20:28, " Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over which the Holy ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood."

Why take heed? it is obvious that some people who are not part of the flock are wolves who peddle lies to deceive the flock. The passage talks about purchase of the flock with blood. The price here is the blood. If he did not purchase all men with his blood (as we have seen here), he definitely didn't die for all.

I'll be right back to continue.

[quote author=An2elect2 post=30274708]
I apologize for the manner in which I responded to your post; I actually thought you were pulling my legs with your keynote questions seeing that your new signature was apparently saying something else. But then I thought to myself, you're right, going to church doesn't in fact qualify one as a Christian. It's on this premise that I will attempt your points/questions.-

Alright. But i dunno your thread and posts are not straight forward. Somewhere along the line am getting the impression that you are saying his death was by chance even though it was foreknown? it was not his plan to die and yet that was the only way sin could be conquered?

Of course it was foreknown, written and even foretold. Let me give you a 'parable'- I send you, as innocent as you look, to ISIL to deliver a Message to them telling them that their ways lead to destruction and that they should listen to what you have to say if they are to have eternal life. Do you need a seer to tell you what your fate there would be?
The point is apart from the fact that His fate can clearly be forseen due to our lost dark and evil ways, history bears witness that killing genuine messengers from God is not something that began with Christ. Even John was beheaded. That was what Christ tried to express in the Parable of the Husbandman.
The second underlined question was what I asked: if death was the only way why would He censure/warn against those who were working towards fulfilling His mission of having Himself killed? He would have simply said: "Tarry a while, for my time has not come".

i take it that you believe salvation should be worked for. No? we shouldn't mind the scripture that says it is by grace? How do you go about obtaining and keeping this salvation till the end? do you mind sharing?

Grace is undeserved favour. Mankind didn't deserve the Gift of the Son of God. So we can rightly say: grace came to man through Jesus Christ.
Before His coming, our efforts were useless, because we were working wrongly, walking along the wrong path/way. Hence He came to show us the right path or right way. Therefore we now work by His Grace.
Through this Grace, our works will then overflow as blessings into the lives of others. I know all these.
Note that part (most important) of this works/efforts is penitence/repentance. That strong resolve not to dwell in the old but to adhere to the teachings of Christ. Without penitence, it doesn't matter how much prayer is rendered upon you...
I indulge in sin, hurt my neighbour for the wherewithal of life, I go to church, pay my tithes, the pastor prays for me and says my sins have been washed by the blood of Jesus, I say a resounding AMEN! I leave church feeling new and the cycle continues. Has my sin been wiped out?

I don't understand why I'm being told also that Christ abolished the Law and that we are now in the era of Grace. I really think if I were blind and couldn't read the Bible myself, I would have been misled somehow.
Isn't this statement clear enough:
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Christ died not to redeem us from our sins but to show us the way to redeem ourselves and even in our daily work we strive by ourselves? nothing about our strength in Christ? no power from outside ourselves in spite of our unwilling flesh?

@bolded: Christ was actually murdered/killed against His Will. Ask me how, but only after you have read my previous posts.
But don't get me wrong, He died for you and I; I mean He had the option of fleeing or denying that He IS the Son of God but He didn't and that's why today we have a lifestyle, a relationship called Christianity.

@underlined: There's Power in the Word of God. Jesus was the Word of God Incarnate. The true Word of God has the Power to quicken the weak flesh to produce good works hence it is said, we can do all things through Christ Who strengths us. Should we fall in temptation, His Grace is sufficient to forgive but on the condition that you make the first effort which is penitence.

Yes i believe we must strive towards perfection but whose power are we appealing to here?

It is not by our power nor by our might but like I said, by His Grace and Power. It's only through His Grace that our works will bear good fruits.

yes this is true but am afraid the application used here might be wrong.

Really, what could be wrong about it, let's see.....

Without the shedding of blood can any sin be remitted? If Christ's blood did not wipe out the sins of those he died for(He died for some not all) what will? our obedience?

@bolded: the answer is YES!
@underlinded: hmmm, you're actually telling me something here. I didn't actually think of it like that. What is sin? What opened doors to sin? Disobedience right (C.R.K). Hmm, by implication, that can only mean that obedience is the key. But I'll expatiate:
I said YES! because firstly you would have to commit a grave sin to shed blood- Thou shalt not kill.
Also I understand blood sacrifices were practices of the old but it should be noted that God did not delight in it:
[b]Isaiah 1:11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
1:12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
1:15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.
1:16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;
1:17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
1:19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
1:20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword:[/b]

The psalmist puts it thus:
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

A broken and contrite heart speaks of repentance.

Christ was reported to have said: not those who say Lord, Lord, but those who do the Will of His Father in Heaven. -Now that's the definition of Obedience.

@He died for some, I'm studying your response, would get back to it

lol you made me ask more questions.

You're welcome to ask and/or contribute more. Once again I apologize.

cc: christemmbassey

An2elect2:
Cc: iamjane.
Cc: Expressions.

Matth 1:21, "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shall call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins" pls take note of the significance of the expression "his people".
Here it is important for us to know that Christ's coming to this world and his meritorious work on the cross was for "his people", a distinct people.

Galatians 1:4, "Who gave himself for our sins that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father."
"our sins" cannot be said to be referring to the sins of every man cos Paul's letter and all his letters was/were for those in the church. The evil world is not cosmos but real people who are evil, all what they stand for,their lusts et al. Just saying...

Ephesians 5:25, " Husbands love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church and gave himself for it."

Acts 20:28, " Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over which the Holy ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood."

Why take heed? it is obvious that some people who are not part of the flock are wolves who peddle lies to deceive the flock. The passage talks about purchase of the flock with blood. The price here is the blood. If he did not purchase all men with his blood (as we have seen here), he definitely didn't die for all.

I'll be right back to continue.

Ok, I'm following. ...

I remember: Matthew26:28

This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
@Expressions this was uttered by Christ

An2elect2:


Excuse me pls, are you saying we have a part to play in the salvation of our souls? the completed work of Christ on the cross is not enough? pls come again.

No! U absolutely have no part to play ok. In fact, Christ lied when He said "what you sow is what you reap". Just believe in the name of Jesus and forget every other thing ok. No wonder He said "My people perish for lack of knowledge". Congratulations to important Christians that Christ washed away their sins on the cross. SHM!

Shawl001:
. Thanks! I wish you have the same encounter too. Cos' that's why Jesus came to planet earth, to die ƒσя us all...to free us from the bondage øƒ sin. God's grace abide with you. Take care!

My friend, u would be more correct to say Christ died because of us(our sins), not that He died for us. Humanity committed the greatest sin by killing the Son of God. Thrusting nails into those helping hands that was stretched forth by the Father to help us. Salvation and redemption lie in the Word that we must absorb so that by adjusting our whole life to It, we attain to salvation and redemption.