There is dz debate dat Humans cannot cheat Fate....

Yesterday evenin i had a lil chat wit sis aishat.... who hapens to b a neighbor and an xpectin moda.

sudenly she sed... "Ewe kan o le jabo lara igi ki Olorun ma mo si". and of cos i agree. bt dos dz mean God causes all things? After all, u can be watchin an event wdout takin part in it.

put difrently. Yorubas wil say... Ayanmo eni ko le tase... Ori lo mo oun ti eniyan ma da lola... Eda o le ye kadara.. etcc....

sis aishat and indeed mani of us sim to asume dat... wateva God chooses for us is wat we wil b. and dese seems primafacially true. After all.. God actuali created Pharaoh for destruction!.

however... while tkin a deep tot on d issue. i seem to av found a conection between Fate and Liberty..and how God coms to play.

I tink... God dosnt choose wat we wil be... in fact if He dos den he has no reason to punish us for our sins...sinc He caused us to do it...

and i also tink God created man wif alot of possiblities and since he is All-knowing... He knos the possible end of evri of d choises befor us.

For instance.... dere wud b a difrence in our day if we had brushd our teeth 20 minuts befor or afta we dd ... if we had took keke napep insted of d bike ... or dint boda to do our mornin devotions.

in oda words... Our fate is a product of our choice. ..such dat... wen we make a choice amidst all d oda options... certain tinz must of necessity follow... weda we wish for it or not...

The punchline therefore is to go God... wu invariably Knows d end of all of our choices...to tel us d one wich fits His divine purpose!.(Jabez proved dz) without dat... evri of our choices wil jst b a gess work...and we cant b so sure Ori has a beta end for us...

#dnttkeastepwidoutaskin God#

You are really a confused being. You are just contradicting yourself in your post. Hear you said:

Akorede612:
God actualli created Pharoah for destruction!.

and then went on to say:

Akorede612:
God dosnt choose wat we will be

Besides, and if "God... wu invariably Knows d end of all our choices" and "can tel us d one wich fits His divine purpose" why didn't He programme the right choices into us in the beginning instead of making us run the risk of suffering and hell?

And try to translate those Yoruba sentences into English language as not everyone understands Yoruba here.

Pr0ton:
You are really a confused being. You are just contradicting yourself in your post. Hear you said:



and then went on to say:



Besides, and if "God... wu invariably Knows d end of all our choices" and "can tel us d one wich fits His divine purpose" why didn't He programme the right choices into us in the beginning instead of making us run the risk of suffering and hell?

And try to translate those Yoruba sentences into English language as not everyone understands Yoruba here.

brov... i wish u were philosophically minded...

if u were... u wud read in between d lines.

i debunked d Pharaoh case wif Jabezs' example... coa in dat case... Jabez changed wateva destiny mite av been tot was His.

i quite believ Pharaoh chose to tow d line of destiny seein dat he wasnt religios in d sens dat Jabez was...or wasnt concious of d fact dat God was God. and dat caused his destruction.

above all... God rarely meddle in human affairs. ..esp, wen he has nt bin cald into d situation. He jst sits and watch as dose ritualists beheads d new born baby.

the fact is... if God meddles into our choices and causes only right ones to occur.... den dz world wil seaize to be fair. the world by nature needs a balance of good and evil... a dose wu thrives are dose wu r able to liv up to its biling

Akorede612:

i quite believ Pharaoh chose to tow d line of destiny seein dat he wasnt religios in d sens dat Jabez was...or wasnt concious of d fact dat God was God. and dat caused his destruction.

First, you never compared Jabez with Pharoah in your OP. You are using dishonesty to get yourself out of the embarrassing mess you got yourself into.

Jabez's case is different from Pharoah as Jabez was cursed by his mother while Pharoah's will was seized by his creator. Jabez had the choice and freewill to change his destiny, whereas Pharoah had been automatically programmed by God for destruction and his freewill subjected, so we can't blame his actions on him but God who was working allthrough. Pharoah's heart was hardened by God so that he wouldn't repent. Hence, Pharoah's fate wasn't based on his choice, but on the potter who chose to make the clay that way.

And how does God eliminating evil by interfering into human affairs make the world unfair?

Pr0ton:


First, you never compared Jabez with Pharoah in your OP. You are using dishonesty to get yourself out of the embarrassing mess you got yourself into.

Jabez's case is different from Pharoah as Jabez was cursed by his mother while Pharoah's will was seized by his creator. Jabez had the choice and freewill to change his destiny, whereas Pharoah had been automatically programmed by God for destruction and his freewill subjected, so we can't blame his actions on him but God who was working allthrough. Pharoah's heart was hardened by God so that he wouldn't repent. Hence, Pharoah's fate wasn't based on his choice, but on the potter who chose to make the clay that way.

And how does God eliminating evil by interfering into human affairs make the world unfair?

u kno dz z wat apens wen stereotypes lyk u piks up a pasage in d bible and den asume God must b a wicked. an unfair being.

of a truth, m no one to Justify Gods actions... bt i cud stil b an apologetic.

i gess u nid to tu c I sam 6: 5-6. so u wud kno d Egyptians and indeed pharaoh hardened deir hearts of deir own will. and if dey had acted oda wise. God wud av stil bin merciful unto dem.

and den on ur question of Gods benevolence in d face of evil. wud wish u download d buk of enoch, read and den u wil undastand dat God cherishes freewill. such dat even d angels in Heaven had d freewil to choose between good and evil.(dey wil also be judged).

as such... just lyk an exam... u dont expect ur lecturer tu tel u y he has set d questions he sets...or all wot nots.He only trusts dat u wil mke d right descsions.and dats all u nid tu av an A or b. Evil is test for man's loyalty tu God. and somtyms.we humans d of dz nt God

What verse did I cherry-pick? I'm arguing according to what your Bible says. Now who's cherrypicking verse between you and me with what you posted below?

Akorede612:

i gess u nid to tu c I sam 6: 5-6. so u wud kno d Egyptians and indeed pharaoh hardened deir hearts of deir own will. and if dey had acted oda wise. God wud av stil bin merciful unto dem.

1 Sam 6:5-6 isn't talking about God's willingless to have mercy on the Egyptians had they repented. Rather, it is drawing out moral lesson to learn from their hardness of heart (caused by God) On the contrary, Rom 9:17 says that God was the one who intentionally hardened Pharoah's heart in order to become popular

Your analogy of a teacher giving a student a test doesn't fit, as a teacher doesn't know the future and the student's mind.

God knows what you'll get after the exam, and so it'll be ridiculous of him to give you the test. God knows the end of every choice. You contradict yourself here again, in fact.

Pr0ton:
What verse did I cherry-pick? I'm arguing according to what your Bible says. Now who's cherrypicking verse between you and me with what you posted below?



1 Sam 6:5-6 isn't talking about God's willingless to have mercy on the Egyptians had they repented. Rather, it is drawing out moral lesson to learn from their hardness of heart (caused by God) On the contrary, Rom 9:17 says that God was the one who intentionally hardened Pharoah's heart in order to become popular

God hardens a heart by givin dem d will... nt d action. dey v d will bt dey cud av acted oda wise..cross ref dz wit peter walkin on d sea. Christ gve im d WILL to com bt along d line he loosed it. and den he. began to sink. Jesus cudnt av walked for im.

Put difrently, wat God did i supose, was to create an avenue tru Phataohs stuborness to show forth His power!... by backin Up His Soveriegnty wit divine Miracles wich i beliv must av instigated Pharaohs anger(he asumed he was d king of oda kings). the statement God hardened Pharoahs heart was jst a figurative xpression. dat God used pharaohs will to show His power. God dint act out His stobones for im.



Your analogy of a teacher giving a student a test doesn't fit, as a teacher doesn't know the future and the student's mind.

God knows what you'll get after the exam, and so it'll be ridiculous of him to give you the test. God knows the end of every choice. You contradict yourself here again, in fact.

how dosnt it sufice?... ur teacher knows U wil eida Pass or Fail...if u choose d right answere wich he(teacher) knos, yet he sets d question.

God knos u wil eida pass or fail.. if u mke d right choices wich He(God) knos. yet he stil livs us wit d. tasks.

is it nt derefore left tu us to go to Him to guide us tru?

LASTLY... IF GOD CAUSES EVRITIN OR EVROIONE TO MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICES.. AM SURE HE MAKE SOM PPLE GO TO HEAVEN AGAINST THEIR WILL!

Akorede612:


how dosnt it sufice?... ur teacher knows U wil eida Pass or Fail...if u choose d right answere wich he(teacher) knos, yet he sets d question.

God knos u wil eida pass or fail.. if u mke d right choices wich He(God) knos. yet he stil livs us wit d. tasks.

Your teacher doesn't know exactly what will become of you. But if at the of the exam you failed, God already knew before hand that you would fail and go hell. Why did He give you the test knowing fully well that you are not capable?

is it nt derefore left tu us to go to Him to guide us tru?

God knows that not all will go to him for guidance. So some will eventually go to hell, which leads to the question I asked above.

LASTLY... IF GOD CAUSES EVRITIN OR EVROIONE TO MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICES.. AM SURE HE MAKE SOM PPLE GO TO HEAVEN AGAINST THEIR WILL!

Not actually against their will. They are programmed by God to go to hell.