MPAC means Muslim Public Affairs Centre, MPAC, Nigeria

14 January, 2009.

The Editor,
GUARDIAN NEWSPAPERS LIMITED, P.M.B. 1217 Oshodi, Lagos, Nigeria.

Dear Sir,

Re: The Gaza-Israel Crisis- The Guardian Editorial 14/01/09

Once again, it is extremely disappointing to start the day with an editorial from a responsible newspaper such as the Guardian that is unable to steer clear of bias. In your editorial of the 14 th of January 2009 titled The Gaza-Israel Crisis, you expressed an editorial position on the current war on Gaza that gives an unreliable account of the history of the conflict and the situation on ground. This particular editorial gives an objective reader of your newspaper the impression that you are simply no more capable of reporting neutrally on the
situation and that your editorial choices on this particular conflict are not value-free. As a media organization that prides itself on being impartial and accurate, we demand of you to rise above personal views and follow basic principles of
balance and fairness in your editorials concerning the Israeli-Palestinian crisis.

On 1st January 2009, I wrote a letter to call your attention to an emerging pattern of docile reporting and editorializing in regards to the way you cover the Palestine-Israel conflict where you (still) consistently refer to Hamas as Islamist, even more absurdly you have gone further in this editorial to accuse 'Muslim youths in the Middle East'- who themselves are Semitic people- of anti-Semitic sentiments in angry reaction to ethnic cleansing going on in Gaza. What specific events were you referring to when you make such assertion? Are you aware that many Jewish people (if these are the only people to whom you restrict the meaning of Semitic people), inside and outside of Israel, are vocal and angry opponents of the inhuman policies of the Zionist
state of Israel in the occupied territories? Jews are also prominent in an organization called Deir Yassin Remembered, which commemorates the
massacre of Arab Palestinians by Jewish militiamen outside Jerusalem in 1948.

Are these honest conscientious objectors equally anti-Semitic or self-hating? In your wrong assertion of anti-Semitic sentiments as it is in the way you drivel on with 'Islamist' (the same way "Mohammedans" was incorrectly and so frequently used in the early 20th Century), history is not being taken seriously. Your current position, which seems to be reinforced by the language and historical account of your editorial writer, undermines the trust that we for our
part placed in your commitment to be accurate, balanced and candid in your editorial policies.

It is common knowledge that Israel hugely benefits from a dominant press that does not call it Zionist, a media that does not report on the extremism and brutality of Israeli settlers living in scattered colonies in the occupied territories, it does not report the figure of pregnant women that have had to die giving birth at illegal checkpoints all over caged Gaza, but these are the exact reason why many people in those countries are now turning to the alternative media and the internet for their information. They have come to realize finally that all the corporate media is now good for is movie listings, comics and lame
sitcoms best watched as a form of anesthetic.

Given this situation, it makes me wonder where your editorial writer got his information from- I mean you can't blame AP or Reuters for this! After all, every year , the United Nations General Assembly votes on a resolution entitled "Peaceful Settlement of the Palestine Question." And every year the vote is the same: it's the whole world on one side; Israel, the United States and some South Sea atolls and Australia on the other side. So, it is not only Hamas, an organization that was only founded in 1987 as a result of Israeli occupation, that 'regards Israel as an occupier forcefully occupying historic Palestine' as your editorial alleges, the world does. The vote this past year was 164-to-7.

Every year since 1989-in 1989, the vote was 151-to-3, the whole world on
one side, the United States, Israel and the island state of Dominica on the other side. The record shows for the past twenty or more years, the entire international community has sought to settle the conflict in the June 1967 border with a just resolution of the refugee question. Do all 164 nations of the
United Nations consider Palestine an 'Islamic land' when they have so consistently voted in this pattern? And it is the exclusive right of the Palestinians to elect their leaders, after all Israel too enjoy this right and elect extremist Zionist into power. Guardian is a reputable newspaper and must not, through its editorial, commit itself to recycling propaganda from foreign tabloid press and other discredited sources.

One final correction, on paragraph 6 of the editorial, you stated: When
Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005, the territory came under the control
of the Palestinian Authority, as was required.

The facts:

- Israel never disengaged from Gaza; it only redeployed to new positions; it re-enters Gaza at will; controls its airspace and coastline; it stifles movement within and between Gaza and the West Bank. During the period, Gaza was the largest and densest open-air prison in the world.

- In 2006 when Hamas won a free and fair election to govern the territories, Israel, behaving as a lawless society it is, went ahead to arrest most of the elected parliamentarians- most of who are still in detention.

At the core of the conflict is the urgent need to address the injustice being suffered by the Palestinians starting with the deliberate ethnic cleansing of Palestinian population in 1947/48, without which the Jewish state could not have been Jewish? Up till the time when the founding fathers of Israel perpetrated this crime, ethnic Arab and Jews were living peacefully together. Israel has no intention of allowing a viable, sovereign Palestinian state on its borders and it is using all means to achieve this end. It had no intention of allowing it in 1948 when it grabbed 24 per cent more land than what it was allotted legally, if unfairly, by UN Resolution 181. It had no intention of allowing it throughout the massacres and ploys of the 1950s. Even now Israel disallows the surviving victims of its crimes the basic human right to return to their
homes, for no other reason than the fact that they are not Jewish.


Disu Kamor
Director of Media & Communications
Muslim Public Affairs Centre, MPAC, Nigeria
e-mail: kamor.disu@mpac- ng.org
website: www.mpac-ng. org

@Davidylan, Osis et all

You may go to this link and read the atrocities committed so far

www.mpac-ng. org

Brother Babs,

please ignore some of these nairalanders-jjyou and likes.

They are either lacking in comprehension skills or inately wicked.

Thank MPAC for this letter to the editorial. Some of our newspapers are not ready to do their homework, they are asleep to the fact that the world is changing and people know where to find true information; I bet the editor never heard of the internet.

It pains my heart greatly to see my brothers and sisters beign oppressed and tyrannized this way. I wish countries, especially muslim countries would do something of real impact to end all this. Its so sad.
I find it annoying when some people decide to be biased and somehow convince themselves that the palestinians deserve this inhumane treatment. They just let their hatred for Islam/muslims take over their reasoning and refuse to see the great injustice in all this.
And lastly, if the jews truly believe that the palestinian land is their 'promised land' and is destined to be owned by the jews, they might as well just forget about all this bloodshed and wait peacefully for their destiny to be acheived.

babs787:

The facts:

- Israel never disengaged from Gaza; it only redeployed to new positions; it re-enters Gaza at will; controls its airspace and coastline; it stifles movement within and between Gaza and the West Bank. During the period, Gaza was the largest and densest open-air prison in the world.

THE REAL FACTS!

1. Israel unilaterally and COMPLETELY disengaged from Gaza but still maintains surveillance over the sea and air so as to prevent the movement of Iranian and Syrian weapons into Gaza for the sole purpose of destroying Israel. Even with the surveillance, HAMAS still managed to smuggle enough ktyusha, qassam and advanced long range Grad rockets enough to fire no less than 50 a day!!! What would happen if Israel went to sleep?
your guess is as good as mine.

2. Gaza is the largest and densest place on earth - it doesnt help if population growth isnt checked. Just ask the Chinese how they managed to keep their under control and stop whinning.

3. Gaza is NOT a prison . . . it enjoys amenities that 90% of Nigerians who are supposedly free can only dream of most of it curtesy of the jews.

4. Gaza was much much worse during the 19 yrs Egypt was in power . . . where was MPAC and the rest of the moaning muslims?

5. Israel cannot stifle movement BETWEEN Gaza and the Westbank . . . both arent contigous!!! Besides FATAH members killed and tortured by HAMAS had to seek refuge in the same Israel that MPAC prefers to excoriate.

babs787:

- In 2006 when Hamas won a free and fair election to govern the territories, Israel, behaving as a lawless society it is, went ahead to arrest most of the elected parliamentarians- most of who are still in detention.

1. If Israel is a "lawless society" arabs wont be living there today and refusing to be a part of the negotiated palestinian state.

2. Hitler was also "elected" . . . it didnt stop the allied forces from going to kill him. A terrorist is still a terrorist.

babs787:

At the core of the conflict is the urgent need to address the injustice being suffered by the Palestinians starting with the deliberate ethnic cleansing of Palestinian population in 1947/48

The REAL CORE of the conflict is the islamic injuncture to destroy the jews.

- The REAL INJUSTICE was the attempt by SIX (6) arab nations to destroy Israel in 1948 which they woefully lost.

- If there was indeed an "ethnic cleansing" of the palestinian population by Israel how come palestinian arabs make up 20% of Israel's population today?

Get a brain MPAC.

babs787:

without which the Jewish state could not have been Jewish?

which is essentially your goal. the destruction of the only jewish state on earth.

babs787:

Up till the time when the founding fathers of Israel perpetrated this crime, ethnic Arab and Jews were living peacefully together.

When were they "living together in peace"? Perhaps when the jews had only dhimmi status?

babs787:

Israel has no intention of allowing a viable, sovereign Palestinian state on its borders

Neither do palestinians or muslims have an intention of allowing Israel survive as a jewish nation on its ancestral land.

The truth is the palestinians do not want a state . . . they want Israel.

babs787:

It had no intention of allowing it in 1948 when it grabbed 24 per cent more land than what it was allotted legally

The only reason the "grab" occured in the first place was because arab nations surrounded her to grab 100% of the land the jews were allocated.

Get your facts right.

babs787:

if unfairly, by UN Resolution 181.

I go to wikipedia to bring you the varying reactions to resolution 181

The majority of the Jewish groups, and the Jewish Agency subsequently announced their acceptance of the proposed Jewish State, and by implication the proposed international zone, and Arab State.

The Arab leadership (in and out of Palestine) opposed the plan. Every major Arab leader objected in principle to the right of the Jews to an independent state in Palestine, reflecting the policies of the Arab League.

Get your facts right plumheads.

babs787:

It had no intention of allowing it throughout the massacres and ploys of the 1950s.

Which "massacres"?

babs787:

Even now Israel disallows the surviving victims of its crimes the basic human right to return to their homes, for no other reason than the fact that they are not Jewish.

Which "homes"? The ones they left behind in southern syria or Jordan?

babs787:

Disu Kamor
Director of Media & Communications
Muslim Public Affairs Centre, MPAC, Nigeria
e-mail: kamor.disu@mpac- ng.org
website: www.mpac-ng. org

Thanks, i will email you this response in person.

Discussion with David is as hard and silly as a person trying to crack a coconut with a mere feather. His case is even worse, regardless of my love for him because of his Ijebu Odeness. I think he is jewish thought. He probably was wronly conceived by Nigerian parents. He should have fathered by the comatosed tyrannical leader (Jewish Pharaoh) Ariel Sharon.

David will forget that Philistine/Palestine was never a barren and unhabited land at anytime. Even before father Ibrahim (AS). Ibrahim, whom Allah had an intimate friend relationship with was not told to wipe out the people. It would have been easy for him to do, because Allah would have sent angels or means of help to accomplish it. Jacob the living-in grandpa's land left with his whole family, probbly left behind still were the philistine blood and those of his children married to these different bloodline.

Whoever led them back into Palestine was not reported to have wiped out everyone, making the land only now inhabited by the new arrivals; the israelites. How then do David and people who think like him then assume that it is alright for zionist rulers among the Israelites/Israelis to deprive the Paestinians the land known as palestine? I think this is unpresidented, barring the native American solution case.


When the Jews were arriving in Palestine , apart from those who remained in Palestine and the Arab penisula (and by the way no one killed or oppressed them in muslim communities throughout the ages), it the Arabs, mostly muslims did not want them in Palestine, common sense should guide anyone that they should have been killed off; they were coming in in small groups and also they were unharmed and vunerable. The "the Jew hating killers; the muslim/arabs," did not pounce on their most hated enemies. Why not?


Sometimes the hatred of a people breeds ignorance. This is the case of David. No arabs, especially the Palestinians had anything against the Jews/their cousins through Uncle Isiaq, until the Ziionist wing made known its intention to the world. Read about Zionism before 1st world war.

By the way watch "The Arrivals" on Youtube.

@Davidylan

I could read that you are being myopic in your response. Do you think you know Gaza than I do? You will never be able to. Let me go to your post that caught my attention.

THE REAL FACTS!

Let me read your facts

1. Israel unilaterally and COMPLETELY disengaged from Gaza but still maintains surveillance over the sea and air so as to prevent the movement of Iranian and Syrian weapons into Gaza for the sole purpose of destroying Israel. Even with the surveillance, HAMAS still managed to smuggle enough ktyusha, qassam and advanced long range Grad rockets enough to fire no less than 50 a day!!! What would happen if Israel went to sleep?
your guess is as good as mine.

You said that Israel maintains surveillance over the sea and air so as to prevent movement of Iranian and Syria weapons into Gaza and completely withdrew from Gaza.

Israel maintains sovereignty while Palestinians live in a cage. They don’t get basic foodstuff, electricity,water, have no access to airspace etc and you claimed that Israel completely withdrew. David, are you ok at all?

While Israeli planes drop pamphlets urging Palestinians to leave, the 1.5 million residents of the Gaza Strip, perhaps the most densely populated place on Earth, have no place to run, no place to hide. The strikes were targeted ar civilians and niot HAMAS perse. How could you be using sophisticated weaponry against locally made bombs? Israel is being supplied latest weaponry in order to wipe off palestinians while Palestinians movement is being restricted and were killed unjustly. I could show you some clips of brutal killings of innocents by Israel in the guise of possessing bombs in which they could find anything on them bt killed them unjustly.

Israel and the Zionists are "in breach" of over 20 United Nations Resolutions. Thousands of indigenous Palestinians have been murdered in their own homeland; millions have been ethnically-cleansing by an "illegal occupying power"; Billions of US dollars have been used to finance the illegal occupation by Zionists of the land of Palestine; the Zionists have been supplied with the very latest and sophisticated (including nuclear) weaponry; since 1967, the Muslim Holy Site of Al-Aqsa has been violated by Zionists on more than 100 occasions; the so-called "Oslo Peace Agreement" in fact relates to only to the original occupants of Gaza and the West Bank - some 1M Palestinians! The WAR: "a MILITARY POWER suppressing (illegally) a CIVILIAN (UNARMED) POPULATION"!

2. Gaza is the largest and densest place on earth - it doesnt help if population growth isnt checked. Just ask the Chinese how they managed to keep their under control and stop whinning.

Are you out of your senses? How could Israel be holding them back when they are being supplied latest weaponry day in day out? I bet you you are being spoon feed with the lies portrayed by the west? They are being access to amenities and there is no freedom for them, they are beng made prisoners in their own country and you called that COMPLETE WITHDRAWAL? Do you care if we open a thread and for GAZA only and look into the history of Gaza and the atrocities committed so far?

Are you aware that the land was transferred to Zionist bodies by the British Government directly and not by Arabs?

The territorial expansion took place, for the most part, before 15 May 1948: i.e., before the formal end of the British forces from Palestine, before the entry of Arab armies to protect Palestinian Arabs, and before the Arab-Israeli war? In 1948, 13 towns, 419 villages, and 99 tribal lands were depopulated in order to declare the State of Israel, occupying 78% of Palestine. 85% of Palestinian population "ethnically-cleansed"!

The original 1947 recommendation to create a "Jewish State" in Palestine was approved, at the first vote, only by European, American and Australian States, for every Asian State, and every African State (with the exception of the Union of South Africa) voted against it, And that, when the vote was cast in plenary session on 29 November 1947, urgent American pressures (which a member of the Truman cabinet described as "bordering onto scandal" had succeeded in prevailing only upon one African country (Liberia), both of which had special vulnerability to American pressures, to abandon their declared opposition?, And that, in other words, the "Jewish State" was planted at the point-of-intersection of Asia and Africa without the free approval of any Middle Eastern, Asian or African country except that Union of South Africa, itself ruled by an alien minority.

Since the General Armistice Agreements were signed in 1949, Israel has maintained an aggressive policy of waging military attacks across the Armistice Demarcation Lines, repeatedly invading the territories of the neighbouring Arab States, And that Israel has been duly rebuked, censured, or condemned for these military attacks by the Security Council of the General Assembly of the United Nations on eleven occasions-five times by the Security Council and six times by the General Assembly.

3. Gaza is NOT a prison . . . it enjoys amenities that 90% of Nigerians who are supposedly free can only dream of most of it curtesy of the jews.

What amenities do they enjoy David? Please spill it out for me. I want to learn from you

4. Gaza was much much worse during the 19 yrs Egypt was in power . . . where was MPAC and the rest of the moaning muslims?\

Do you care to provide the facts? Let me hae the brutal killings during the time you claimed above.

5. Israel cannot stifle movement BETWEEN Gaza and the Westbank . . . both arent contigous!!! Besides FATAH members killed and tortured by HAMAS had to seek refuge in the same Israel that MPAC prefers to excoriate.

You lacked Palestinian-Israeli conflict and would do you good if you could supply me your facts and not just relying on deluded stories from the west,.

1. [b]If Israel is a "lawless society" arabs wont be living there today and refusing to be a part of the negotiated palestinian state.[/[/b]quote]

[/quote]


Did you read my post or feigning ignorance? What concerns Israel with Palestinian election?Why the arrest?

[quote]2. Hitler was also "elected" . . . it didnt stop the allied forces from going to kill him. A terrorist is still a terrorist.

Good it seems where are getting somewhere, could you please educate me o who terrorist is and we look into it together going down memory lane and supporting same with facts?

The REAL CORE of the conflict is the islamic injuncture to destroy the jews.

- The REAL INJUSTICE was the attempt by SIX (6) arab nations to destroy Israel in 1948 which they woefully lost.

- If there was indeed an "ethnic cleansing" of the palestinian population by Israel how come palestinian arabs make up 20% of Israel's population today?

[/quote]

More than half of the Jews living in Palestine at that time were recent immigrants, who had come to Palestine in the preceding decades in order to escape persecution in Europe. And that less than 5% of the population of Palestine was native Palestinian Jews.

Between 1948 & 1967 Israel controls West Jerusalem and Jordan control East Jerusalem, while it occupies East Jerusalem and the West Bank in 1967.

When British passed the Palestine Problem to the United Nations in 1947, Zionists owned no more then 6% of the total land area of Palestine.

The General Assembly of the United Nations recommended that a "Jewish State" be established in Palestine. They proposed the Jews should have about 54% of the total area of the country while they only owned 6%.

The territorial expansion took place, for the most part, before 15 May 1948: i.e., before the formal end of the British forces from Palestine, before the entry of Arab armies to protect Palestinian Arabs, and before the Arab-Israeli war? In 1948, 13 towns, 419 villages, and 99 tribal lands were depopulated in order to declare the State of Israel, occupying 78% of Palestine. 85% of Palestinian population "ethnically-cleansed"!

Get a brain MPAC.

You should get you fact correctly.

which is essentially your goal. the destruction of the only jewish state on earth.[/[/b]quote]

I can see that you lacked knowledge of the Arab-Israeli conflict in which most of the issues have been stated here. You would only be fooling yourself if you are saying Arab started the conflict and that is the reason you should buckle up if you really want to discuss the conflict.

[b]
When were they "living together in peace"? Perhaps when the jews had only dhimmi status?

Go read history before passing childish comment.

Neither do palestinians or muslims have an intention of allowing Israel survive as a jewish nation on its ancestral land.

Did I read you saying ancenstral land? In what did the land belong to them? Are you aware that the Canaanites were the People of Palestine and that Jerusalem was established by Jebusites, a Canaan tribe and that  Prophet Ibrahim/Abraham migrated to the land of Palestine/Jerusalem.

Also in 587 BC - Nebuchadnezzar King of Babylon destroys Jerusalem including Sulayman's/Solomon's Temple. All Jews are either killed, exiled or taken prisoners. END OF ISRAEL! Only after 400 years!

While in 1099 AD, Christian Crusades occupy Jerusalem while Salaudeen re-occupies Jerusalem from the Christians in 1187.

In 9 Dec 1917 - Ottoman surrender to British. Jerusalem & Palestine become British Mandate. 1948 - Al Nakba [The Catastrophe] Britain evacuates and Jews destroy Palestinian villages and the State of Israel is founded.

The truth is the palestinians do not want a state . . . they want Israel.

Does the land belong to Israel or they were forcefully put there?

The only reason the "grab" occured in the first place was because arab nations surrounded her to grab 100% of the land the jews were allocated.

Read some of my post up. I dont need to waste time over this again. Go gather your fact before coming here

Get your facts right.

I should be the one telling you that rather than relying on western stories

I go to wikipedia to bring you the varying reactions to resolution 181

The majority of the Jewish groups, and the Jewish Agency subsequently announced their acceptance of the proposed Jewish State, and by implication the proposed international zone, and Arab State.

The Arab leadership (in and out of Palestine) opposed the plan. Every major Arab leader objected in principle to the right of the Jews to an independent state in Palestine, reflecting the policies of the Arab League.

Get your facts right plumheads.

Having independent state in another country . Are you ok at all? You have the audacity to say that out, kai, na real wa o

David, please read,

The 1947 recommendation of the General Assembly in favour of the creation of a "Jewish State" was outside the competence of the Assembly under the Charter of the United Nations.

All attempts by the Arab States and other Asian countries to have the Assembly submit the question of "constitutionality" of its recommendation to the International Court of Justice for an "advisory opinion" by the Court were rejected or ignored by the Assembly.

When the Assembly began to experience "second thoughts" over the matter and convened for its second special session in 1948, it failed to reaffirm the 1947 recommendation for the partition of Palestine-thus destroying whatever dubious legality that recommendation for the establishment of a "Jewish State" had had

The original 1947 recommendation to create a "Jewish State" in Palestine was approved, at the first vote, only by European, American and Australian States, for every Asian State, and every African State (with the exception of the Union of South Africa) voted against it, And that, when the vote was cast in plenary session on 29 November 1947, urgent American pressures (which a member of the Truman cabinet described as "bordering onto scandal" had succeeded in prevailing only upon one African country (Liberia), both of which had special vulnerability to American pressures, to abandon their declared opposition?, And that, in other words, the "Jewish State" was planted at the point-of-intersection of Asia and Africa without the free approval of any Middle Eastern, Asian or African country except that Union of South Africa, itself ruled by an alien minority.

Since the General Armistice Agreements were signed in 1949, Israel has maintained an aggressive policy of waging military attacks across the Armistice Demarcation Lines, repeatedly invading the territories of the neighbouring Arab States, And that Israel has been duly rebuked, censured, or condemned for these military attacks by the Security Council of the General Assembly of the United Nations on eleven occasions-five times by the Security Council and six times by the General Assembly.

No other country in the world, whether member of the United Nations or non-member, has been so frequently condemned by the United Nations.

Besides expelling the bulk of the Arab inhabitants of Palestine, and besides constantly attacking the neighbouring Arab States, Israel has also consistently harassed the United Nations observers and other personnel stationed along the Armistice Demarcation Lines: It has assassinated the first United Nations Mediator and his military aide; it has detained some truce observers; it has military occupied and illegally searched the Headquarters of United Nations personnel; and it has boycotted meetings of the Mixed Armistice Commissions.

Israel has additionally imposed a system of apartheid upon the Arabs who stayed in their homeland?, More than 90% of these Arabs live in "security zones;" they alone live under martial law, restricting their freedom to travel from village to village or from town to town; their children are denied equal opportunities for education; and they are denied decent opportunities for work, and the right to receive "equal pay for equal work". [/b]

[b]Which "massacres"?

Are you denying Israeli massacres or trying to play dumb?

Which "homes"? The ones they left behind in southern syria or Jordan?

Do the homes belong to Israel oga?


[quote]Thanks, i will email you this response in person.[/quote

]

What do one expect from confused, spoon feed ignorant like you.

You also do not need to go to MPAC, put your worries here and it would be addressed

Stay blessed.

Babs lets have your arguments piece by piece. Who has time to read a volume?

david is too lazy to read.

Coming back to the issue at hand, is it so hard for Hamas to stop firing the rockets? let em stop and let's see whether israel wont halt the offensive,the world watches,frankly i think the hamas rulers just like to sacrifice the people they claim to be fighting for just for cheap popularity. they dont even stay among the people, they hide in lebanon and use their foot soldiers to launch rockets.
Israel will always retain the right to defend herself.
If there will be peace in that region, the islamic folks will have to realise that israel's existence is non negotiable, there will have to be two states side by side:jewish and palestine.

nice to hear about the ceasefire just now, but ill wait to see whether hamas will be civil enough to abide by it.

olabowale:

david is too lazy to read.

I'm too lazy to read a hotchpotch of nonsensical statements. 
At least i read the initial letter . . .

reindeer:

Coming back to the issue at hand, is it so hard for Hamas to stop firing the rockets? let em stop and let's see whether israel wont halt the offensive,

Is it so hard for israel to give up their stolen lands? Let them give it up and withdraw to their at least 1967 borders and lets see if there wouldnt be peace in the region.

Lagosboy:

Is it so hard for israel to give up their stolen lands? Let them give it up and withdraw to their at least 1967 borders and lets see if there wouldnt be peace in the region.

they already did so on the Gaza side since 2005. Is HAMAS claiming to be shooting rockets on behalf of those in the West Bank who now understand the power in dialogue?

Prior to 1967 was there peace in the middle east? What prompted the war then?

What is one to make of a bunch of benighted Muzzies who still think ''anti-semitism'' refers generically to prejudice against all Semites?

davidylan:

Prior to 1967 was there peace in the middle east? What prompted the war then?

The odds of getting a full fledged response to this question are very slim. It will be a 10-sigma event. Let's see whether they will offer a response.

4 Play:

The odds of getting a full fledged response to this question are very slim. It will be a 10-sigma event. Let's see whether they will offer a response.

i forwarded the exact same question to a blogger on palestine remembered . . . he is yet to get back to me since last week.

@DavidDylan and 4 play: « #14 on: Yesterday at 07:35:00 PM »

Quote from: davidylan on Yesterday at 07:22:19 PM
Prior to 1967 was there peace in the middle east? What prompted the war then?

The odds of getting a full fledged response to this question are very slim. It will be a 10-sigma event. Let's see whether they will offer a response.

Prior to 1967, there were period of peace in the Middle east. Lets illustrate this by Palestine. Lets take the city Jarusalem as the ideal city for that illustration. Period of peace; before Ibrahim arrived and all the way before the children of Israel came back from Egypt. Now calculate the many centuries that period was.

Another period of peace; after Islam under Umar bin Khattab (RA) opened the city of Jerusalem. This period was interrupted by the events leading to crusades. Please calculate the many centuaries or at least decades that was.

Another period of peace; after Salahudeen defeated the Crusaders up to the time that the Zionists raised their ugly heads with the support of the equally ugly headed not Jewish zionists like DavidDylan. This period started just about the late decades of the 19th century.

Now that your silly questions have been answered, I will like to remind you that you should ask someone who is at least 60 years old, from Ijebu Ode about Alhaji Pakulopa. He went to Qudus in 1966 during his hajj journey. This was prior to 1967. That year was peaceful, regardless of the evilness of the Zionists who had rendered the palestinians to the status of refugees outside palestine.

The zionists displayed their evilness by cutting down oil trees, fig trees and the destroying the farms of the defenseless palestinians. Well, the zionists have been able to do it through the support of the world; the Europeans and americans leading the way, while dragging the rest of the world along.

olabowale:

@DavidDylan and 4 play: « #14 on: Yesterday at 07:35:00 PM »
Prior to 1967, there were period of peace in the Middle east. Lets illustrate this by Palestine. Lets take the city Jarusalem as the ideal city for that illustration. Period of peace; before Ibrahim arrived and all the way before the children of Israel came back from Egypt. Now calculate the many centuries that period was.

Another period of peace; after Islam under Umar bin Khattab (RA) opened the city of Jerusalem. This period was interrupted by the events leading to crusades. Please calculate the many centuaries or at least decades that was.

Another period of peace; after Salahudeen defeated the Crusaders up to the time that the Zionists raised their ugly heads with the support of the equally ugly headed not Jewish zionists like DavidDylan. This period started just about the late decades of the 19th century.

Now that your silly questions have been answered, I will like to remind you that you should ask someone who is at least 60 years old, from Ijebu Ode about Alhaji Pakulopa. He went to Qudus in 1966 during his hajj journey. This was prior to 1967. That year was peaceful, regardless of the evilness of the Zionists who had rendered the palestinians to the status of refugees outside palestine.

The zionists displayed their evilness by cutting down oil trees, fig trees and the destroying the farms of the defenseless palestinians. Well, the zionists have been able to do it through the support of the world; the Europeans and americans leading the way, while dragging the rest of the world along.

Is this guy alright?

Prior to 1967 was there peace for Israel?

Short answer - NO!
- 1948-49 war.
- 1964 formation of the terrorist PLO that eventually invented the fraud of the "palestinian" people.

olabowale:

@DavidDylan and 4 play: « #14 on: Yesterday at 07:35:00 PM »
Prior to 1967, there were period of peace in the Middle east. Lets illustrate this by Palestine. Lets take the city Jarusalem as the ideal city for that illustration. Period of peace; before Ibrahim arrived and all the way before the children of Israel came back from Egypt. Now calculate the many centuries that period was.

Another period of peace; after Islam under Umar bin Khattab (RA) opened the city of Jerusalem. This period was interrupted by the events leading to crusades. Please calculate the many centuaries or at least decades that was.

Another period of peace; after Salahudeen defeated the Crusaders up to the time that the Zionists raised their ugly heads with the support of the equally ugly headed not Jewish zionists like DavidDylan. This period started just about the late decades of the 19th century.

Now that your silly questions have been answered, I will like to remind you that you should ask someone who is at least 60 years old, from Ijebu Ode about Alhaji Pakulopa. He went to Qudus in 1966 during his hajj journey. This was prior to 1967. That year was peaceful, regardless of the evilness of the Zionists who had rendered the palestinians to the status of refugees outside palestine.

The zionists displayed their evilness by cutting down oil trees, fig trees and the destroying the farms of the defenseless palestinians. Well, the zionists have been able to do it through the support of the world; the Europeans and americans leading the way, while dragging the rest of the world along.

There are no "Palestinian" people only Arabs and Bastardized Pseudo-Arabs. Tell Jordan and Egypt to reclaim and reabsorb their people instead of fighting proxy wars. Bibilical/Ancient residents of Philistine are not "Palestinians"

@David

Babs lets have your arguments piece by piece. Who has time to read a volume?

You would never have time when your lies have been refuted and exposed.

I'm too lazy to read a hotchpotch of nonsensical statements.
At least i read the initial letter . . .

You would always be lazy to read the truth but very quick at replying the posts of your fellow supporting you. You did read initial letter, responded but your response was been given detailed analysis.

Prior to 1967 was there peace in the middle east? What prompted the war then?

Could you take me down history and we would see if you, Morpheus, 4play would be able to discuss honestly. So teach me bros and let me learn from you.

babs787:

Could you take me down history and we would see if you, Morpheus, 4play would be able to discuss honestly. So teach me bros and let me learn from you.

Even if you read the truth or it stared you in the face point blank. Your brainwashed mind would still interpret it as western anti muslim,anti islamic propaganda. So what's the use

@Morpheus

Even if you read the truth or it stared you in the face point blank.

You may provide the truth if you have it. I doubt if you ever do.

Your brainwashed mind would still interpret it as western anti muslim,anti islamic propaganda.

I am not being spoon feed or dillusioned just like you by the west. When you and your friends are ready in the like of 4play and David, we would go down history.

Oh, I remember that you are atheist, using books would seem meaningless to you but if you are brave enough, we could dig our nose into the history. Put me on course and I would follow you. Mr intelligent

So what's the use.

To discern the truth from falsehood. So be bold to teach as I really want to learn from you.

babs787:

@Morpheus

You may provide the truth if you have it. I doubt if you ever do.


I am not being spoon feed or dillusioned just like you by the west. When you and your friends are ready in the like of 4play and David, we would go down history.

Oh, I remember that you are atheist, using books would seem meaningless to you but if you are brave enough, we could dig our nose into the history. Put me on course and I would follow you. Mr intelligent

To discern the truth from falsehood. So be bold to teach as I really want to learn from you.

Okay lets start from the origins of so called "palestinian people" you speak of. My statement reads the original inhabitants of the region beginning from the land border of the meditereanean to the Jordan river are not the the people who are claiming Palestinian origins as the name implies as recent or pre 7th century invasion by Caliphates and so on. I am not going to start telling stories here you can read

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine#Paleolithic_and_Neolithic_periods_.281_mya.E2.80.935000_BCE.29

Please can you also account for the what the origins of these people are and how they came about their identityand bywhat standards do they affirm the rights as aborigines to the land they proclaim theirs by ancestry, conquest, assimilation, DNA, Wars, elections, In what sense is the land theirs Pre-1948 and for how long had they established or fought for this right to self determine

maybe I'll learn something I didn't already know.

Babs787

Different question

I would also like to know what the preoccupation of Nigerians are with The Gaza crisis cept religiious affiliation.

I haven't seen you guys discussing
the evils of the Apatheid regime or

the atrocious conquest by the Bastardized Arabs of the so called "maghreb region of North Africa" or

the movement of self determination of the Western Sahara region,

the Amazigh in Algeria,

the Tuareg in Mali and Niger.

The shiat/Sunni divide and the problems it is creating in the muslim world




These are all muslim issues and muslim countries but not a word from any of you, not one thread but you are interesed in matters all the way in the Levant.  And you want me to take you seriously or say you are speaking objectively about the Gaza issue.

Can you imagine such hyprocrisy?

Moved to foreign Affairs