I grew up with the belief that Jesus Christ came to this world to die for our sins, and it has been believed as such. Now I'm not doubting that he didn't die for our sins, In the spirit of Easter I'm just trying to figure out the logical explanation behind this.
So if the Pope (as we know him to be a holy man) wakes up one morning and says he wants to die for our sins how does that guaranty our salvation?
My initial reasoning was that well, if Jesus dies, God might be sober and this will make him easily forgive our sins when we offend him. But then again how can he be sober when the plan was orchestrated by him.
Jesus died knowing that he would go to heaven, even God himself knew his son would die so I'm just trying to figure out where the salvation came from.
Anyone with answers should please drop in.
If you are going to comment on this please I will need logical answers only.
Thanks.

I don't know what you mean by logical but here goes..........
When God created man(Adam),he was a man without sin(he had a God nature).Unfortunately,he took of the forbidden apple in the garden of Eden and sinned(died).From then he took on a sin nature.
Every man born of a woman inherits that nature(it's not the sin committed but the nature).Man has to be free from that nature and take on the God nature-the nature of righteousness.
Jesus came and brought this nature.He was born of a woman but did not have the seed of man and so did not inherit the sin nature.For the forgiveness of sins,there had to shedding of blood but beyond shedding of blood,it was more about taking up the nature of righteousness found only in Jesus.

There had to be an exchange.His nature of righteousness for our nature of sin.This he accomplished on the cross and by His resurrection.
The pope cannot do it because he does not have the nature of righteousness and no prophet could do it either.

Sir' you demanded a logical answer....reason I came on you post is because logic is my personal saviour because I'm proud atheist,with that said,understand that philosophy is question that can never be answered and religion is answer that can never be question so, sir' you being religious as to believing in christ,then logically you already have an answer that can not be questioned but just act with the mass appeal but take this to the bank and save...."Between two extremes the truth lies in the middle and trust nobody who claims to know the truth because truth is like a pathless land"

Let me give you d gist as simple as possible.
We all know that the wages of sin is death abi....every soul that sin shall encounter death.
Death was the punishment for sin.

Here comes a man Jesus who has no sin, never committed any sin but was punished by death....... that was an abnormally, it was not supposed to happen..... The Devil goofed by punishing a man with death who committed no sin

Because of this, the order of things has to change, the Devil was no longer incharge..... POWER has to change hands, the power of life and death has to be given to this man who has no sin but was killed, he has the power to save people who come to him.
He became the way, the truth and life, he became the king of kings, he became the head of the principalities and powers.

Logic fails logically in explaining the purpose and works of Almighty God

@aaronson, u don't believe in God, so don't put ur mouth in this matter. Why can't u just go away? As far as am concerned, u don't exist, so let the christians not exist to u also. U guys r everywhere porknosing. Leave this matter to us. If its a scam fine, leave us wif it. U need the holy spirt to get these things right. The first guy gave the correct answer. Take it or leave it, it won't change a thing, Jesus has already died and resurrected.

Jesus died as a price for our redemption. He is the wages of our sins for those who accept Him.

U had better be mindful of. Ur sins cos. U will singlehandedly be responsible for it. Jesus dying or not na wash

The carnal mind does not understand d things of God -neither can he know them for they are spiritually decern.
The things of God does not appeal to d senses. It will always sound foolish to d mind.

Be that as it may- I'll try my best to be as simple as possible; d entrance of Gods word gives light...unto d simple.

In Gensis the only HUMANS God created were Adam and Eve -correct? Yes.
The whole of Humanity was in the LOINS (seed- *permit me* sperm) of Adam. When Adam obeyed satan by eating d fruit -he partake of d nature of satan together with all d seeds in him- this is why d books of Romans declared dt 'all man fell and fall short of d glory of God'

Now God wants to restore man back to Himself and being a just God He must do it justly because He has declared dt d "wages of sin is death"

Man is not qualified to save himself because of d nature of satan in him- Hence d birth of Jesus who was born not of d will of d flesh nor of corruptible seed but of God.

How Jesus Died for Our sin?
SIN here is d nature of satan in man by which no man can see God.
In d book of Isaiah it was prophesied concerning Jesus that -He was bruised for our transgression; Jesus himself declared at d last supper "ds is my blood dt is shed for many for d remission of sin"
He being just remit this to man's account and took d sin nature of man. He took d place man.


I hope this helps. Would have love to quote every bible passage used here but i guess dt can be done on request in ordee not to bore u.

If u haven't then pls do- Be born of God.

AdeniyiA:
Logic fails logically in explaining the purpose and works of Almighty God

That's an oxymoron...

The God of the Old Testament is adifferent God than in the New Testament. Jesus bought us from living under the Old Testament. The God of the Old Testament required a blood sacrifice. Hence, all the Jewish animal sacrifices. Christ paid that price in human blood and bought us from the Old Testament God. He redeemed us from the Old Testament God.

And what has changed after the supposed death?

Sin still abound, death still abound!

The bible said sin entered the earth through 1 man (Adam) and that life entered through another (Jesus). So why are people still dying? Why are people still believed to go to hell if they die in sin? If Jesus had not died, (according to your bible), sinners will still go to hell and righteous people still go to heaven: so what difference did the death make?

Meaningless rantings from Christians here.

Your unknown and mythical Jesus died for ur sins yet you find it difficult not to sin. Wasnt his sacrifice a waste of time? The world is even more terrible than before he supposedly came. He left far away heaven to be killed by man just to achieve little or nothing.
Yet there are people in this world who don't know or believe in the him or his death... What then is the purpose? Christians suffer from illness, poverty, natural disasters, they pray out their toungu without receiving.

Why does the Bible God always involve in fruitless mission?

simplex2:
And what has changed after the supposed death?

Sin still abound, death still abound!

The bible said sin entered the earth through 1 man (Adam) and that life entered through another (Jesus). So why are people still dying? Why are people still believed to go to hell if they die in sin? If Jesus had not died, (according to your bible), sinners will still go to hell and righteous people still go to heaven: so what difference did the death make?

You don't understand sin and death,hence your comment.
Sin is first of all a nature and not just an act.Jesus came to free man from that nature.Everyone who receives His life is given righteousness and is no longer considered a sinner.It's now left to such a person(born-again) to begin to live out that nature and the bible says,'sin shall not have dominion over you'.There are people who live such a life of not sinning.The Holy Spirit enables such a life.
On the concept of death,death is not just about taking a last breath,death according to Scripture is actually a cutting off from God-a separation.Leaving the mortal body for a Christian is not considered death,it's a transition.
People will go to hell because they refused the life of God which was in Jesus.It's the life that makes them acceptable to God and can make them stand before Him without guilt.Those who receive the life but turn to walk in ways of transgressions will also go to hell.

thorpido:
You don't understand sin and death,hence your comment.
Sin is first of all a nature and not just an act.Jesus came to free man from that nature.Everyone who receives His life is given righteousness and is no longer considered a sinner.It's now left to such a person(born-again) to begin to live out that nature and the bible says,'sin shall not have dominion over you'.There are people who live such a life of not sinning.The Holy Spirit enables such a life.
On the concept of death,death is not just about taking a last breath,death according to Scripture is actually a cutting off from God-a separation.Leaving the mortal body for a Christian is not considered death,it's a transition.
People will go to hell because they refused the life of God which was in Jesus.It's the life that makes them acceptable to God and can make them stand before Him without guilt.Those who receive the life but turn to walk in ways of transgressions will also go to hell.

How what u typed above makes sense to you simply amaze me.

What exactly do you mean by sin as a nature and not an act? So how many people have Jesus freed from sinful nature?

You know u lie when u say there are people who live a sin free life. Even if there are, they are not up to 0.5% of the worlds population. What then is the point of the mission?

I want to ask you... Do you live a sin free life? Are u naturally sin free like Christ since u received him? If no, why? Even after recieveing the so call perfect sinless nature? Dosnt that make a mess of all u have been saying? If yes, I will like to know how thatvis possible by asking u more questions.

Many rantings from so - called christians here

The christian concept of IMMORTAL SOUL IS ENOUGH TO SHOW THAT JESUS DEATH IS USELESS .... Since Abraham, Noah, Moses have all gone to heaven without Jesus dyin for sin , then his death is USELESS .





BUT if what Jesus death accomplish is to Ressurect Billions of our dead loved ones back to life in the nearest future .. Then that shows we need to be grateful to God and Jesus himself for saving us from our Adamic inherited enemy, death and givin mankind a bright hope .

chukwumanj:
I grew up with the belief that Jesus Christ came to this world to die for our sins, and it has been believed as such. Now I'm not doubting that he didn't die for our sins, In the spirit of Easter I'm just trying to figure out the logical explanation behind this.
So if the Pope (as we know him to be a holy man) wakes up one morning and says he wants to die for our sins how does that guaranty our salvation?
My initial reasoning was that well, if Jesus dies, God might be sober and this will make him easily forgive our sins when we offend him. But then again how can he be sober when the plan was orchestrated by him.
Jesus died knowing that he would go to heaven, even God himself knew his son would die so I'm just trying to figure out where the salvation came from.
Anyone with answers should please drop in.
If you are going to comment on this please I will need logical answers only.
Thanks.

Jesus died for our sins and we are saved by His grace. E.g. 1000 robbers are to be executed and a man comes out to die for them, isn't it right to say he died their sins and died a thousand deaths? What if 100 refuse to accept he was being killed for their sake? Aren't they to be lined up and executed accordingly?

Misogynist2014:
Jesus died for our sins and we are saved by His grace. E.g. 1000 robbers are to be executed and a man comes out to die for them, isn't it right to say he died their sins and died a thousand deaths? What if 100 refuse to accept he was being killed for their sake? Aren't they to be lined up and executed accordingly?

Nobody accepts human sacrifice for crimes anymore in modern because it's more detrimental than beneficial...

Imagine a civilization where one innocent person is killed for another person's crime, would crime cease when perpetrators can easily sacrifice a person each time a crime is committed?

davien:

Nobody accepts human sacrifice for crimes anymore in modern because it's more detrimental than beneficial...

Imagine a civilization where one innocent person is killed for another person's crime, would crime cease when perpetrators can easily sacrifice a person each time a crime is committed?

You see, if a man does evil (once he does not blasphame the name of the Holy Spirit) and has faith in Christ, his sins would be forgiven. Does my post now make sense? Christ became sin so that we may become righteous through faith that he died our death, like that innocent man in the illustration died for 1000, but those that don't believe He died for them, are they still going to benefit? Maybe these verses will make it more lucid.......



No One Is Righteous
9 What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. 10 As it is written:
“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.” [ b ]
13 “Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.” [ c ]
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.” [ d ]
14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.” [ e ]
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 ruin and misery mark their ways,
17 and the way of peace they do not know.” [ f ]
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.” [ g ]
19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
Righteousness Through Faith
21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in [ h ] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, [ i ] through the shedding of his blood —to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished — 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

Misogynist2014:
Jesus died for our sins and we are saved by His grace. E.g. 1000 robbers are to be executed and a man comes out to die for them, isn't it right to say he died their sins and died a thousand deaths? What if 100 refuse to accept he was being killed for their sake? Aren't they to be lined up and executed accordingly?

Why must they accept? Why is 'accept' an issue if you, the saviour had not made an issue of it?

You use examples that rubbishes ur point.

If I want to save 100 men why should they have reason not to accept?

Imagine a whole God came on earth, died to save mankind, yet man has to be convinced to understand this. Man has to begged to be made understand that he was saved by God... It makes no sense my brother.

why do atheists mess up every thread in the religion section?

they say there is no God, but every time i come here they are talking about "a non-existent" being. Can this people be mad?

thorpido:
I don't know what you mean by logical but here goes..........
When God created man(Adam),he was a man without sin(he had a God nature).Unfortunately,he took of the forbidden apple in the garden of Eden and sinned(died).From then he took on a sin nature.
Every man born of a woman inherits that nature(it's not the sin committed but the nature).Man has to be free from that nature and take on the God nature-the nature of righteousness.
Jesus came and brought this nature.He was born of a woman but did not have the seed of man and so did not inherit the sin nature.For the forgiveness of sins,there had to shedding of blood but beyond shedding of blood,it was more about taking up the nature of righteousness found only in Jesus.

There had to be an exchange.His nature of righteousness for our nature of sin.This he accomplished on the cross and by His resurrection.
The pope cannot do it because he does not have the nature of righteousness and no prophet could do it either.

What's all this nature, nature, exchange this that
What's the formula for this equation?

An2elect2:
why do atheists mess up every thread in the religion section?

they say there is no God, but every time i come here they are talking about "a non-existent" being. Can this people be mad?

Lol... Just deal with it pretty... Some people are just allergic to bullshit and can not help but poke their nose when they see bullshit

It is true that Jesus died for our sins but He did not die for all. His death was for those He had chosen from the beginning, whose names are in the book of life but all those not chosen will naturally go to their own place of eternal damnation.

Christ did not die for all. Sad but true.

frank317:


How what u typed above makes sense to you simply amaze me.

What exactly do you mean by sin as a nature and not an act? So how many people have Jesus freed from sinful nature?

You know u lie when u say there are people who live a sin free life. Even if there are, they are not up to 0.5% of the worlds population. What then is the point of the mission?

I want to ask you... Do you live a sin free life? Are u naturally sin free like Christ since u received him? If no, why? Even after recieveing the so call perfect sinless nature? Dosnt that make a mess of all u have been saying? If yes, I will like to know how thatvis possible by asking u more questions.

Okay I understand you're an atheist and it's just not worth it getting into a back and forth with one.

frank317:


Why must they accept? Why is 'accept' an issue if you, the saviour had not made an issue of it?

You use examples that rubbishes ur point.

If I want to save 100 men why should they have reason not to accept?

Imagine a whole God came on earth, died to save mankind, yet man has to be convinced to understand this. Man has to begged to be made understand that he was saved by God... It makes no sense my brother.

The savior did not make a case of it, but those that were to be executed regected it, will we force it down their troats? Its like a passenger who said he paid the transport fare of all commuters, if you regect it, won't you pay your fare? What then is the purpose of rejection if you dont? As for bolded, it came as a surprise to me, I really can't comment on it, cos the shock is making my hands to shake .

shortgun:
Let me give you d gist as simple as possible.
We all know that the wages of sin is death abi....every soul that sin shall encounter death.
Death was the punishment for sin.

Here comes a man Jesus who has no sin, never committed any sin but was punished by death....... that was an abnormally, it was not supposed to happen..... The Devil goofed by punishing a man with death who committed no sin

Because of this, the order of things has to change, the Devil was no longer incharge..... POWER has to change hands, the power of life and death has to be given to this man who has no sin but was killed, he has the power to save people who come to him.
He became the way, the truth and life, he became the king of kings, he became the head of the principalities and powers.

Buddha, Confucius, Orunmila, Horus, Krishna, Mithra, Dionysus also had no sin, rather than die a worthless death of sacrifice like a goat, they taught how to live righteous like them and become Higher souls as sons of God

efzbah:
The carnal mind does not understand d things of God -neither can he know them for they are spiritually decern.
The things of God does not appeal to d senses. It will always sound foolish to d mind.

Be that as it may- I'll try my best to be as simple as possible; d entrance of Gods word gives light...unto d simple.

In Gensis the only HUMANS God created were Adam and Eve -correct? Yes.
The whole of Humanity was in the LOINS (seed- *permit me* sperm) of Adam. When Adam obeyed satan by eating d fruit -he partake of d nature of satan together with all d seeds in him- this is why d books of Romans declared dt 'all man fell and fall short of d glory of God'

Now God wants to restore man back to Himself and being a just God He must do it justly because He has declared dt d "wages of sin is death"

Man is not qualified to save himself because of d nature of satan in him- Hence d birth of Jesus who was born not of d will of d flesh nor of corruptible seed but of God.

How Jesus Died for Our sin?
SIN here is d nature of satan in man by which no man can see God.
In d book of Isaiah it was prophesied concerning Jesus that -He was bruised for our transgression; Jesus himself declared at d last supper "ds is my blood dt is shed for many for d remission of sin"
He being just remit this to man's account and took d sin nature of man. He took d place man.


I hope this helps. Would have love to quote every bible passage used here but i guess dt can be done on request in ordee not to bore u.

If u haven't then pls do- Be born of God.

If the things of ur God don't appeal to ur senses, what do u do? You either dumb your senses or dumb your God
Abeg my senses are too precious for me

Pls this Adam, is he the ancestor of us Africans? What concerns us with Jewish ancestors and their sin?

Misogynist2014:
Jesus died for our sins and we are saved by His grace. E.g. 1000 robbers are to be executed and a man comes out to die for them, isn't it right to say he died their sins and died a thousand deaths? What if 100 refuse to accept he was being killed for their sake? Aren't they to be lined up and executed accordingly?

Why should their accepting it make any difference? So if all 1000 say no, the man is a fool and didn't die for us, the death would be a waste wouldn't it?

thorpido:
Okay I understand you're an atheist and it's just not worth it getting into a back and forth with one.

Stop labeling me and answer my question.

An2elect2:
It is true that Jesus died for our sins but He did not die for all. His death was for those He had chosen from the beginning, whose names are in the book of life but all those not chosen will naturally go to their own place of eternal damnation.

Christ did not die for all. Sad but true.

really! so, some people are automatically hell-bound irrespective of what happens?

Misogynist2014:
Jesus died for our sins and we are saved by His grace. E.g. 1000 robbers are to be executed and a man comes out to die for them, isn't it right to say he died their sins and died a thousand deaths? What if 100 refuse to accept he was being killed for their sake? Aren't they to be lined up and executed accordingly?

Did you just compare your God with an executioner?