The challenge pose by a Christian goes thus:

Ifeann:

Ok yazach let me ask u this..
I wont quote the bible so let me ask u from the quran. Why does allah claim to end isa's life... why kill isa?? Why is his death so important. .
Here is the quran passage.

And when Allah said: O Isa, I am going to terminate the period of your stay (on earth) (in Arabic, mutawafeeka).... Qur'an 3:55

(Jesus saying) I did not say to them aught save what Thou didst enjoin me with: That serve Allah, my Lord and your Lord, and I was a witness of them so long as I was among them, but when Thou didst cause me to die (Arabic- tawaffaytani), Thou wert the watcher over them, and Thou art witness of all things. Qur'an 5:117. *

The word “tawaffa” refers to physical death.

Some of. u Muslims believe that the term "cause thee to die" or terminate (in Arabic, mutawafeeka) need not refer to physical death as it can have other meanings. It can refer to God snatching the body of Jesus away physically to Himself.

The words "tawaffaytani" and "mutawafeeka" are forms of the Arabic word “tawaffa”.

The word mutawafeeka cannot possibly refer to God snatching Jesus' body physically without his experiencing physical death.

The verb in Arabic (mutawafeeka) is used in the Quran with only two meanings.

The word is used 23 times in the Quran and 21 out of the 23 times, it refers to physical death. Only two times, it refers to the separation of the soul from the body at the time of sleep and during both these times, the qualifying words like sleep or night would be in the verse.

Actually this is the argument of Ahmadiyyah muslim sect. They firmly believe Jesus (as) died after Allah saved him initially from the crucifixion. Christians hijack this idea also to prove the death and resurrection of Jesus (as).

This "acrobatic linguistic gymnastic" is seconded, of course, by username:

usermane:


Wow! Wow!! Wow!!!

I love this linguistic analysis. The Qur'an does confirms Jesus death. This has been my conclusion after thorough literal and linguistic analysis of relevant verses free from preconcieved notions. Am amazed that a Christian also reached this conclusion with the Qur'an.

What the Qur'an doesn't confirm is Jesus ressurrection or re-emergence prior to Amaggedon.

www.nairaland.com/2235053/did-jesus-died-sin-which

The Verse Under Discourse
"And when Allah said:" 0 `Isa! I am going to take you away completely and raise you to Myself and clear you of those who disbelieve, and I will make those who follow you superior to those who disbelieve till the Day of Resurrection. Then you will return to Me and I will judge between you in the matters in which you used to dispute."
______________________

What Is Tawafii
"At-Tawaffi": is to take something completely. It is for this reason that it is also used for death, because at the time of death Allah takes man's soul away from his body.

See, for example, the following verses where "Tawafi"is used: "... Our messengers take him completely ( i. e., cause him to die.)" {surah al-An'am: 61

"And they say:" What! when we have become lost in the earth, shall we then indeed be in a new creation?". ..

Say:" The angel of death who is given charge of you shall take you completely (i. e., cause you to die), then to your Lord you shall be brought back" {Sajdah:10 - 11}

"Allah takes completely the souls at the time of their death, and those that die not during their sleep; then He withholds those on whom He has passed the decree of death and sends the others back till an appointed term..." {Zumar: 42}

Pondering on the last two verses you will see that the Qur'an has not used "at-tawaffi in the meaning of death, rather the word gives the idea of taking and preserving. In other words, when at-tawaffi is used for death, it is not because it means death; rather it is used to emphasize the connotation of taking and preserving, to show and establish that man's soul does not perish, is not destroyed by death - - contrary to what ignorant people think; Allah keeps and preserves it until comes the time to return it to its body for resurrection. At other places where this sense is not involved, Allah uses the word Al-mawt (death), and not at-tawaffi.

For example:
And Muhammad is no more than a messenger, the messengers have already passed away before him; if then he dies or is killed, will you turn back upon your heels?" {Al-Imran:144}

"... it shall not be finished with them entirely so that they should die ..." {Surah Fatir: 36}


There are a lot of other verses of this type, not excepting some verses in `Isa's story itself: For example, there are, `Isa's words about himself: "And peace be on me on the day I was born, and on the day I die, and on the day I am raised to life" {surah Maryam: 33}

And Allah's words about him: "And there is not one of the people of the Book but most certainly shall believe in him before his death, and on the Day of Resurrection he (`Isa) shall be a witness against them" {surah Nisa: 159}

It all shows that at-tawaffi does not necessarily mean death.

This interpretation is also supported by the words of Allah refuting the claim of the Jews: And their saying:"Surely we killed the Messiah, Isa son of Maryam, the messenger of Allah;" and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so) like `Isa (; and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture; and they killed him not for sure. Rather, Allah took him up to Himself; and Allah is Mighty, Wise. And there is not one of the people of the Book but most certainly shall believe in him before his death and on the Day of Resurrection he (`Isa) shall be a witness against them" {surah Nisa: 157 - 159}

The Jews claimed that they had killed the Messiah, `Isa son of Maryam, and likewise the Christians think that the Jews had killed `Isa son of Maryam by crucifixion, and that after he was crucified Allah raised him up from his grave to the heaven, as the Gospels say. But the Qur'anic verses, as you see, unequivocally refute the story of killing and crucifixion both.

It is apparent from the Divine Words, And there is not one of the people of the Book..., that `Isa (a. s) is alive near Allah and that he will not die until all the people of the Book shall believe in him. Keeping all these factors in view, the word "At-tawaffi, used in the verse under discussion, would only mean that Allah was to take him away completely from among the Jews. Yet the verse does not say so clearly; it is only its apparent connotation.

Source: {Curled From Tafsir al-Mizan of 'Allamah Sayyid Hussain Tabatabi}

In Badshah Husain's English translation of the Holy Quran, Sale is quoted on page 41 of Vol. 11. as under:
" It is supposed by several that this story was an original of Mohammad's but they are certainly mistaken, for several sectarians held the same opinion, long before his time. The Basilidians) Irrenus I. I. C 32 and C. Epiphan Haeres 42 num III (in the very beginning of Christianity, denied that Christ himself suffered, but that Simon the Cyraracean was crucified in his place. The Corinthians before them and the Carpocratians next) to name no more of those who affirmed Jesus to have been a mere man (did believe the same thing; it was not himself, but one of his followers very like him that was crucified. Photius tells us that he read a book entitled
"The Journeys of the Apostles", relating the acts of Peter, John, Andrew, Thomas and Paul, and among other things contained therein, this was one, that Christ was not crucified, but another in his stead, and that therefore he laughed at his crucifiers (Photius Bible Cod 411, col. 192) or those who thought they had crucified him (Tolands' Nazrenus p. 71)".

* The Jewish plot to kill Isa was prevented by the best of planners, the almighty Allah..

Mirza Ahmad 'Ali also writes:
Tawaffa is to fulfil a promise. "Inni mutawaffika" means "I will complete your term". The word may mean death or to take away. It has been used in both its meanings in the Quran.

The incoherent recording of the events of Isa's crucifixion, burial and resurrection in the New Testament, proves that the whole story had been fabricated to suit the doctrines of the Christian church.

All the Muslims, in the light of this and other verses of the Quran, do not give any credence to the false story of Isa's crucifixion and resurrection, fabricated by the Christian church..

In the verse of discourse, these words follow each other successively: "Tawaffa" (to take away), "tahar" (to purify), "raf-a" (to raise) and "nuzul" (to descend). These are the four effects of the divine will in connection with Isa, out of which the first three have already taken place and the fourth is expected to happen, before the final resurrection. The religion of Allah shall triumph over all other religions and creeds. The light of truth shall enlighten the world, and a perfect human society shall be established before the world comes to an end. This is His promise.

If tawaffa means death, then also there should be no doubt in the mind of a believer about Isa's nuzul because, as said in verses of al-Baqarah, Allah can give life to the dead or raise up any dead living being to life.

In the opinion of Shaykh Saduq (ra), this explanation is more credible..If tawaffa means departure from this world without dying, then his nuzul will be re-appearance after his temporary disappearance.

Allah Knows Best.

Jazakumullahu kairan dear brother

Jzakallahu khayran. It doesnt make sense to derail rilwayne's thread over this. Thanks for opening this. Kow however, that ifeann did not type that. She copied them. Very obvious. She doesnt understand what hadith is...how then she could understand "Tawaffa" "mutawafika".

Rilwayne001:
Jazakumullahu kairan dear brother

Wa iyyakum. And thanks for being a big thorn in their flesh

tintingz:
Jazak... brother.

Very enlighten.

Wa iyyakum dear brother.

Empiree:
Jzakallahu khayran. It doesnt make sense to derail rilwayne's thread over this. Thanks for opening this. Kow however, that ifeann did not type that. She copied them. Very obvious. She doesnt understand what hadith is...how then she could understand "Tawaffa" "mutawafika".

Wa iyyakum. Really that was why I opened this thread. I hate derailing, and that's just the tactic of these fellows. And of course, it is obvious ifeann copied-pasted those "linguistic acrobatic gymnasium."

AlBaqir:


Wa iyyakum. And thanks for being a big thorn in their flesh
"

Albaqir I will still paste the question non of your brother have been able to answer.

The following Qur’anic verse records Jesus as saying:

Surah 19:33: Peace on me the day I
was born, and the day I die, and the
day I shall be raised alive! (Pickthall)

“There was peace on me the day I
was born, and will be the day I die,
and on the day I will be raised from
the dead.” (A. Ali)


Muslim scholars, who believe that Jesus
did not die, find themselves in a
dilemma at verses like the one provided
above. Knowing that the above testimony of Jesus in Surah 19:33 clearly proves that he died before his ascension to heaven, many Muslim apologists attempt to respond by saying that this is a future event. They try to explain away this Qur’anic verse by saying that Jesus will die when he comes back the second time and then be raised back to life. They say
this with no rhyme or reason except to
evade an obvious contradiction in the
Qur’an. Well, what evidence do they
provide to make such an outrageous
claim? None! But, this interpretation
poses a problem for Muslim scholars
because the very same phrase is also
expressed just a few verses earlier in the Qur’an regarding John the Baptist (Yahya) . We can read an almost identical passage about John the Baptist in Surah 19:15. Note the similarity in the wordings:


Surah 19:15: And peace on him on
the day he was born, and on the day
he dies, and on the day he is raised
to life. (Shakir)


What is the different between this verse that talk about the death of john? If Jesus did not die, then John did not die.
The chronological sequence of event is clearly understood and correctly applied here. Yet, in the case of Jesus, we find Muslims having Jesus ascending to God BEFORE dying. This is satanic manipulation.

And to the op, I will give you an example;


“die” is translated from the Arabic word,
“mutawaffika.” The term “mutawaffika” occurs over 25 times in the Qur’an, and in each case it refers to the death of someone. Especially enlightening is its usage in Surah 39:42:

“It is Allah that takes (mutawaffika)
the SOULS (of men) at DEATH; and
those that die not (He takes)
(m utawaffika) during their sleep:
those on whom He has passed the
decree of death.” (Yusuf Ali)

Thus, it is important to note that if Qur’an translators (like Yusuf Ali) prefer to use another phrase such as, “Thou didst take me up” (mutawaffika) instead of “Thou didst cause me to die” (mutawaffika) in their translations,
it means the same thing in the Arabic
Qur’an.

malvisguy212:
Albaqir I will still paste the question non of your brother have been able to answer.

The following Qur’anic verse records Jesus as saying:

Surah 19:33: Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the
day I shall be raised alive! (Pickthall)

“There was peace on me the day I
was born, and will be the day I die,
and on the day I will be raised from
the dead.” (A. Ali)


Muslim scholars, who believe that Jesus
did not die, find themselves in a
dilemma at verses like the one provided
above. Knowing that the above testimony of Jesus in Surah 19:33 clearly proves that he died before his ascension to heaven, many Muslim apologists attempt to respond by saying that this is a future event. They try to explain away this Qur’anic verse by saying that Jesus will die when he comes back the second time and then be raised back to life. They say
this with no rhyme or reason except to
evade an obvious contradiction in the
Qur’an.

Well, what evidence do they
provide to make such an outrageous
claim? None!

First, you need to understand that Qur'an make it known emphatically that "Every soul shall taste death, and then unto Him you shall (all) return"

This verse is explicit. In as much as Jesus (as) is a soul, he shall taste death.

However, the verse posted above (Q. 19:33) is quoted out of context. It is crystal clear from verse 27 of Qur'an 19 that Jesus (as) made those divine statement while in cradle. Hence, just like every other souls, he was born, he will die and resurrected.

Second, by the time you cross examine the verse where Allah says in respect of Jesus{"...they killed him not, and crucify him not...Allah raised him up (rafa'a) unto Himself"} along with Q. 19: 33, it is absolutely clear that the alleged "death and resurrection" on the cross is fallacy. And your tale is blown away.

How is it difficult for God to preserve Jesus If satan's life can be preserved till the end of days; and according to Christianity, Elijah is not yet dead, his life is being preserved:
{2 Kings 2:11 New International Version (NIV)}
As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.

So, there's no ambiguity in the holy Qur'an concerning Jesus's life preservation. The only reason why Christian is trying so hard to prove what is not proven in the Qur'an is to support their concept of death and ressurection of Jesus and force it down the throat of Muslim.

malvisguy212:

But, this interpretation
poses a problem for Muslim scholars
because the very same phrase is also
expressed just a few verses earlier in the Qur’an regarding John the Baptist (Yahya) . We can read an almost identical passage about John the Baptist in Surah 19:15. Note the similarity in the wordings:


Surah 19:15: And peace on him on
the day he was born, and on the day
he dies, and on the day he is raised
to life. (Shakir)


What is the different between this verse that talk about the death of john? If Jesus did not die, then John did not die.
The chronological sequence of event is clearly understood and correctly applied here. Yet, in the case of Jesus, we find Muslims having Jesus ascending to God BEFORE dying. This is satanic manipulation.

@bold, the case of Elijah described above has dealt a deadly blow on that.

The case of Yahya (John the Baptist) is clear. There is no ambiguity as to his death. Both Christian and Muslim believe he's dead.

Just in the same context, both Jesus and Yahya are attested by the Qur'an ch. 19 to be blessed. While the death of Yahya has taken place, that of Jesus will also take place; and all living soul as well.

malvisguy212:

And to the op, I will give you an example;


“die” is translated from the Arabic word,
“mutawaffika.” The term “mutawaffika” occurs over 25 times in the Qur’an, and in each case it refers to the death of someone. Especially enlightening is its usage in Surah 39:42:

“It is Allah that takes (mutawaffika)
the SOULS (of men) at DEATH; and
those that die not (He takes)
(m utawaffika) during their sleep:
those on whom He has passed the
decree of death.” (Yusuf Ali)

All these copy-pasted "linguistic gymnastic" has been explained in this op. You are simply repeating what ifeann copy-pasted. Kindly read and reply appropriately. Thanks

malvisguy212:

Thus, it is important to note that if Qur’an translators (like Yusuf Ali) prefer to use another phrase such as, “Thou didst take me up” (mutawaffika) instead of “Thou didst cause me to die” (mutawaffika) in their translations,
it means the same thing in the Arabic
Qur’an.

Arabic is one of the richest language. A word could have several (different) meaning. The context in which such word is then used, will explain the actual meaning to be given for such word.

Using the same meaning for such single word in different context is a broad-light rape of truth.

Again, read and digest the OP. The two context in which "at-Tawafii" has been used in the Qur'an have already being explained.
___________________________

The Miracle/Sign of Jonah Proved Jesus Is Not Dead And Resurrected

Explicitly from the word of Jesus (as) {Matthew 12: 38 - 40}: Then some of the Pharisees and teachers of the law said to him, “Teacher, we want to see a miracle from you.”

He answered, “A wicked and adulterous
generation asks for a miracle! But none will be given it except the miracle of the prophet Jonah.


What Exactly Was The Miracle or Sign of Jonah? Jonah was in the Belly of a huge fish for 3days and 3nights and did not DIE. That was indeed a Miracle. Had Jonah died and then resurrected, that will no longer be a Miracle.

In a similar fashion, Jesus according to the Bible predicted:
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Should anyone reason that Jesus Died and then resurrected in the heart of the earth, that will be contradictory to the miracle or sign of Jonah (as).

The account of the "death and resurrection of Jesu (as)" according to the reports given by the Bible is hugely contradictory. Such ambiguous reports can never be tender in the court of Justice.

Albaqir.
Surah 5:75: The Messiah, son of
Marium is but a messenger;
messengers before him have
indeed passed away; and his mother
was a truthful woman; they both used
to eat food. See how We make the
communications clear to them, then
behold, how they are turned away.
(Shakir)
Surah 3:144: And Muhammad is no
more than a messenger; the
messengers have already passed
away before him; if then he dies or
is killed will you turn back upon your
heels? (Shakir)

The first Surah clearly states that all
MESSENGERS BEFORE JESUS HAD DIED A
fact that Muslims will not deny. And the
second Surah states that all messengers
before Muhammad have also passed
away in death. Islam teaches that no
prophet arose between JESUS AND
MUHAMMED. Thus, the immediate
messenger before Muhammad was
Jesus. In other word, All messengers including Jesus has died.

The wording in the verse of john the baptist and Jesus is the same, the simple question is ,DID JOHN THE BAPTIST DIED? Yes or no!!!

Where did you here christians say elijah did not die?in Matthew 17:1-3, “And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, and was transfigured before them; and His face did shine as the sun and His raiment was white as the light. And behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with Him”.

Does the fact that Moses and Elias were
talking with our Lord prove that Moses
and Elias had not been dead, but alive in heaven? I believe that verse 9 gives us the answer to that question. “And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them saying, ‘Tell the VISION to no man….”. Peter, James and John did NOT SEE the persons of Moses and Elias, they saw a VISION,meaning they died.

The story of jonah is a forestshadowing event of what will happened to Jesus.

1.the three days Jonah spent in the belly of the whale is seen as foreshadowing Christ’s descent to hell.infacte In the Old Testament, the prophet himself(jonah) uses the language of hell to describe his misery in his plea to God in the belly of the whale.
2.just as Christ rose on the third day, so also Jonah was expelled from the belly of the whale three days later.
3.jonah spend 40 days in the wilderness wandering about and preaching for the coming doomdays. the 40 days
Jonah spent after his rescue from the
belly of the whale correspond to the 40
days Jesus spent preaching after His
resurrection from the dead.

Ask yourself,what did Jesus mean when he say no sign will be given to them unless the sign of jonah? The pagans in Nineveh accepts the word of God at FIRST PREACHING without jonah performing a sign. But the pharasses and scribe required sign to believe and even when the sign was given they still doubt.

AlBaqir 's understanding of the verb 'tawaffi' is flawed. While on one or two occasions in the Qur'an, 'tawaffi' did not mean physical death, most of its occurence implies this. In all its occurence, it indicate a separation of soul from body. In any case, the usage of this word in Qur'an 3:55 questions traditional Muslim belief that Jesus was raised alive, body and soul.

Next, AlBaqir 's interpretation of Qur'an 4:179 is flawed.

Qur'an 4:159:
"And there is not one of the people of the Book but most certainly shall believe in him before his death, and on the Day of Resurrection he (`Isa) shall be a witness against them"

AlBaqir: It is apparent from the Divine Words, And there is not one of the people of the Book...', that `Isa (a. s) is alive near Allah and that he will not die until all the people of the Book shall believe in him. Keeping all these factors in view, the word " At-tawaffi, used in the verse under discussion, would only mean that Allah was to take him away completely from among the Jews. Yet the verse does not say so clearly; it is only its apparent connotation.

If all the people of the Book are going to believe in Jesus before his death upon his re-emergence as per Baqir 's interpretation, why are many people of the Book living and dieing daily when Jesus haven't even return? Why are they living and dieing daily without believing in Jesus. This reality dismiss the OP 's interpretation of the verse.

Let 's see the line; 'his death' in this verse. 'His' here refer to each one of the people of the Book. If you inteprete 'his' as refering to Jesus, you reach an unrealistic conclusion as i have pointed above.

usermane:
AlBaqir 's understanding of the verb 'tawaffi' is flawed. While on one or two occasions in the Qur'an, 'tawaffi' did not mean physical death, most of its occurence implies this. In all its occurence, it indicate a separation of soul from body.

@underline: according to your ideology!
@bold, Your biggest problem has always been you are neither here nor there. Anyway, thank God you concur "tawafii" did not mean physical death. But aren't you hold that believe along ifeann

usermane:
In any case, the usage of this word in Qur'an 3:55 questions traditional Muslim belief that Jesus was raised alive, body and soul.

Qur'an clearly reveals he (as) was raised up unto his Lord; and the very verse confirmed the Mighty of God: "...and is Exalted in Power, Wise" This is raising up in "body and soul".

Marrying this verse with those in question as earlier explained at the OP confirm another meaning of "at-Tawafii" - to take away".

usermane:

Next, AlBaqir 's interpretation of Qur'an 4:179 is flawed.

Again, according to your ideology @underline. So,
do you mean Q. 4: 159? Surah Nisa Never ends with 179 unless yours does.

usermane:

If all the people of the Book are going to believe in Jesus before his death upon his re-emergence as per Baqir 's interpretation, why are many people of the Book living and dieing daily when Jesus haven't even return? Why are they living and dieing daily without believing in Jesus. This reality dismiss the OP 's interpretation of the verse.

Let 's see the line; 'his death' in this verse. 'His' here refer to each one of the people of the Book. If you inteprete 'his' as refering to Jesus, you reach an unrealistic conclusion as i have pointed above.

This next verse proves or points that `Isa (as) is alive and has not died yet.
“ And there is not one of the People of the Book but he must certainly believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Resurrection, he (`Isa ) shall be a witness against them”

The third person singular pronouns in "believe in him" and "he shall be" refer to `Isa (as). As for the pronoun in "before his death" there are various interpretations:

Some people have said: The pronoun refers to 'one' in "one of the People of the Book", meaning: each and every one among the People of the Book will believe in `Isa (as) before that one dies. It will become clear to him just before his death that `Isa was the Messenger of Allah and His servant; even though that faith at that time will not benefit him at all, and Isa will be a witness over them all on the Day of Judgement. It makes no difference whether they believed in him in a way that was beneficial to them or at a time when it was of no avail like believing at the time of death.

If we say that the pronoun "before his death" refers to `Isa (as) it would support what has been narrated in some traditions that `Isa is alive, has not died and that he will come down before the Day of Resurrection and then the People of the Book, the Jews and the Christians, will believe in him. But this interpretation particularizes, without any reason, the generality of the phrase, "and there is not one of the People of the Book". But according to this explanation, the verse would mean that only those People of the Book would believe in `Isa who would be present when he would come down from the heavens, while all others who came and went after his being raised and before his coming down would not believe in him. This restricts without any reason the general meaning of the verse.

However, some have opted for this explanation and said that the pronoun refers to `Isa (as) and points to their belief in him at the time of his coming down from heaven in the last days. This view relies on a tradition as mentioned above. But the verse with its two parts clearly shows that `Isa (as) will be a witness on all of them on the Day of Resurrection as will all of them believe in him before death. And Allah has quoted the speech of `Isa regarding this evidence in a particular way: "And I was a witness over them so long as I was among them; when You did take me up You were the watcher over them and You are witness over all things".

In this verse, `Isa limits his evidence for the period when he was alive among them before his being taken away, and the verse under discussion says that he would be a witness over all those who could believe in him; now if all would believe in him it means that he would not die but after all of them.

This brings us to the second interpretation, that is, he is alive until now and he will return to them again so that they could believe in him. Utmost that can be said is that the one who will not be present when he will return to them second time will believe in him at the time of his death and the one who will be present at that time will have to believe in him whether willingly or under compulsion.

This verse coming after the Divine words: "and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so... Rather Allah raised him up to Himself, and Allah is Mighty, Wise," indicates that `Isa has not died and is still alive; because there seems no useful purpose in saying that all of them would believe in him under compulsion. This supports the view that their believing in `Isa before death refers to their believing in him before `Isa death.
However, there are other verses which apparently go somehow against it. For example: "And when Allah said: 0 `Isa! I am going to take you away completely and cause you to ascend unto Me and purify you of those who disbelieve, and make those who follow you above those who disbelieve to the Day of Resurrection" {Q.3: 55}.

It shows that some disbelievers in `Isa will continue upto the Day of Resurrection. Also, the verse: "... and their saying:" Our hearts are covered"; Nay! Allah has set a seal upon them owing to their disbelieve, so they shall not believe except a little" shows that it is an affliction written against them, and their society, as a Jewish society, will not believe upto the Day of Resurrection. Also, the verse: "And I was a witness over them so long as I was among them; when You did take me up You were the watcher over them", shows that they will be continuing after `Isa (as) was taken away completely.

However, the fact is that these three verses do not go against the idea of `Isa (as) being alive. The verse: "... and make those who follow you above those who disbelieve to the Day of Resurrection", doesn't say that they would continue upto the Day of Resurrection with their identity as the People of the Book. Likewise, the Divine words: Nay! Allah has set a seal upon them owing to their disbelief so they shall not believe except a little, only says that the true belief will not be accepted by all of them together and if at sometime they believed, that belief would cover only a few of them. Moreover, if the verse,"And there is not one of the People of the Book but he must certainly believe in him before his death", shows that they would believe in him before his death, it only mentions the belief, per se; it does not say that it would be an acceptable belief.

Likewise, the verse: When You did take me up You were the watcher over them, refers to the people, not to the Christians or the People of the Book, because the verse begins with these words: And when Allah will say:"O`Isa son of Maryam! did you say to the people, take me and my mother two gods beside Allah?". Apart from that, `Isa (as), as one of the ulu 'l- `azm Messengers, was sent to all the people, and when he will give evidence over their deeds it would cover the Israelites as well as others, whether they believed in him or continued as unbelievers.

In short, the verses, seen in their context and in conjunction with other related verses, show that `Isa (as) did not die; he was not killed nor crucified nor did he die a natural death as mentioned earlier.

malvisguy212:

Surah 5:75: The Messiah, son of
Marium is but a messenger;
messengers before him have
indeed passed away; and his mother
was a truthful woman; they both used
to eat food. See how We make the
communications clear to them, then
behold, how they are turned away.
(Shakir)

Surah 3:144: And Muhammad is no
more than a messenger; the
messengers have already passed
away before him; if then he dies or
is killed will you turn back upon your
heels? (Shakir)

The first Surah clearly states that all
MESSENGERS BEFORE JESUS HAD DIED A
fact that Muslims will not deny. And the
second Surah states that all messengers
before Muhammad have also passed
away in death. Islam teaches that no
prophet arose between JESUS AND
MUHAMMED. Thus, the immediate
messenger before Muhammad was
Jesus. In other word, All messengers including Jesus has died.

When you copy-paste, you copy-paste mistakes along with it. Qur'an NEVER emphasis the word "ALL". It simply says "...many were the messengers that passed away before him"

If you understand the Arabic, the bold is^ "qad khalat MIN qablihi Rasul". Emphasis on "MIN". Very crystal clear.

However, one of the many Islamic belief is that there are some messenger of Allah still alive. A good example is Khidr (as) mentioned in Surah al-Kahf. He met and thought Musa (as). Still very much alive.

malvisguy212:

Where did you here christians say elijah did not die?in Matthew 17:1-3, “And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, and was transfigured before them; and His face did shine as the sun and His raiment was white as the light. And behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with Him”.

Does the fact that Moses and Elias were
talking with our Lord prove that Moses
and Elias had not been dead, but alive in heaven? I believe that verse 9 gives us the answer to that question.

“And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them saying, ‘Tell the VISION to no man….”.
Peter, James and John did NOT SEE the persons of Moses and Elias, they saw a VISION, meaning they died.

Where is VISION = they died? Vision could be dream, hallucination, aspiration, mirage, mystical or supernatural experience.

Don't you believe a man can see VISION of someone else ALIVE (perhaps in another realm) as well as DEAD?

malvisguy212:

The story of jonah is a forestshadowing event of what will happened to Jesus.

1.the three days Jonah spent in the belly of the whale is seen as foreshadowing Christ’s descent to hell.infacte In the Old Testament, the prophet himself(jonah) uses the language of hell to describe his misery in his plea to God in the belly of the whale.

Nonsense. "Try again later"

malvisguy212:

2.just as Christ rose on the third day, so also Jonah was expelled from the belly of the whale three days later.

Perhaps there is another "Gospel according to" in the Bible that says Jesus rose on the third day?!
Bible says he died on "Friday (in the evening) and resurrected on the First day of the week before Dawn"

Where does Friday (Evening) - Sunday (before Dawn) Equal Three days and Three Nights?
Rilwayne001, what does your friend has in WAYEC mathematics?

malvisguy212:

3. jonah spend 40 days in the wilderness wandering about and preaching for the coming doomdays. the 40 days
Jonah spent after his rescue from the
belly of the whale correspond to the 40
days Jesus spent preaching after His
resurrection from the dead.

Ask yourself, what did Jesus mean when he say no sign will be given to them unless the sign of jonah? [s]The pagans in Nineveh accepts the word of God at FIRST PREACHING without jonah performing a sign. But the pharasses and scribe required sign to believe and even when the sign was given they still doubt[/s].

Nonsense! Since Jonah has many "signs", It is because of dubious people like you that Jesus made the particular "sign of Jonah" he was referring to clearer by saying:
"There shall be no miracle except the miracle of prophet Jonah. For prophet Jonah was in the belly of whale for three days and three nights so is the son of man be in the heart of the earth for three days and three night"

Like Qur'an used to say "...aren't you reasons?"

AlBaqir:


When you copy-paste, you copy-paste mistakes along with it. Qur'an NEVER emphasis the word "ALL". It simply says "...many were the messengers that passed away before him"

If you understand the Arabic, the bold is^ "qad khalat MIN qablihi Rasul". Emphasis on "MIN". Very crystal clear.

However, one of the many Islamic belief is that there are some messenger of Allah still alive. A good example is Khidr (as) mentioned in Surah al-Kahf. He met and thought Musa (as). Still very much alive.



Where is VISION = they died? Vision could be dream, hallucination, aspiration, mirage, mystical or supernatural experience.

Don't you believe a man can see VISION of someone else ALIVE (perhaps in another realm) as well as DEAD?



Nonsense. "Try again later"



Perhaps there is another "Gospel according to" in the Bible that says Jesus rose on the third day?!
Bible says he died on "Friday (in the evening) and resurrected on the First day of the week before Dawn"

Where does Friday (Evening) - Sunday (before Dawn) Equal Three days and Three Nights?
Rilwayne001, what does your friend has in WAYEC mathematics?



Nonsense! Since Jonah has many "signs", It is because of dubious people like you that Jesus made the particular "sign of Jonah" he was referring to clearer by saying:
"There shall be no miracle except the miracle of prophet Jonah. For prophet Jonah was in the belly of whale for three days and three nights so is the son of man be in the heart of the earth for three days and three night"

Like Qur'an used to say "...aren't you reasons?"

you don't even know the meaning of forestshadowing,the belly of the fish signified grave and when jonah"and as jonah was in the belly of the fish (grave) for 3day and 3night so shall the son of man be in the central of the earth"jonah coming out of the whale signified the ressurection of our Lord meaning Jesus died and was ressurected and he live for ever.

The quran say every soul must test death;
Surah 21:35: EVERY SOULS MUST TASTE
OF DEATH, and We try you with evil
and with good, for ordeal. And unto
Us ye will be returned. (Pickthall)

And the quran indicate All prophet including Jesus was human;

Surah 21:7-8: Before thee, also, the
messengers We sent were but MEN,
to whom We granted inspiration: If ye
realise this not, ask of those who
possess the Message. Nor did We give
them bodies that ate no food, nor
were they EXAMPT FROM DEATH.
(Yusuf Ali)

And the Qur’an makes it clear that it
includes Jesus:

Surah 5:75: The Messiah, son of
Mary, was no other than a
MESSENGERS, messengers (the like of
whom) had passed away before
him. And his mother was a saintly
woman. And they both used to eat
(earthly) food. Pickthall)

Clearly written, the quran say Jesus is just a prophet,why did Allah raised him? And not His greatest prophet? If Jesus did not died then it will mean the first two verses is contradiction.

Yusuf Ali, in his footnote of Surah 19:33:

“…Christ was not crucified (S. IV. 157).
But those who believe that he never
died should ponder over this
verse.” (Ali, “The Holy Qur’an”,
p.774, f. 2485.)