The concept of "Jesus died for our sin" to a rational minded is illogical. Jesus came from heaven to the earth to die for our sins and go back to heaven which means God did not loss anything. But why the over hyping by Christians. had if been he died and goes to hell fire that means God loss is son the story will have been different. In short Jesus came from heaven and went back to heaven simple..

omniwater007:
You have to accept everything you are told.No question.person die for your sin?does it make any sense to you.why did he have to die at all?why can't God just forgive everybody?must someone die before your sins can be forgiven?so many question to ask.

God is a God of justice and He never change. He can't just ignore our sins like that. Every sin must be punish and this is justice. If a sin could go without being punished then God is unjust. This is why God can't just have mercy on us just like that.
Justice and mercy cannot mixed, it is either justice or mercy. God can not forego justice for mercy because this will make Him unjust. And God's love won't make Him to forego mercy and always satisfy justice.
God's wisdom allow Him to figure out a way to always satisfy justice and at the same time be mercy. And this way is the shedding of blood.
This is why Jesus had to shed his blood.

johnydon22:
Op see it like this:
Yahweh condemn you even though u were not born yet because some mythical adam and his rib turned wif eve ate an apple because a talking snake told them to.

Then instead of just forgive them he didn't, he sent his son to be murdered and tortured sacrificed to him so he can forgive you a sin that you have not committed yet knowing that you were not born yet but will still throw you in hell if you do..
makes perfect sense

Your explanation doesn't make sense because it is wrong. You don't understand what happened.

johnydon22:


What exactly is your problem? why the constant ad hominems without making sense...

Honestly you will make me to stop paying any mind to ur posts because you dont make sense just attack the person... Very childish..

Yes that is what we want. Stop responding to our post and leave religion section or stay and get converted.

An2elect2:


we still have sinners going to hell because Christ did not die for all.

Sinners go to Hell because they choose to. Christ can't force anybody to accept his sacrifice.

johnydon22:


Here is my post in bold please show me eternal there or where i stipulated a time frame for the mythical hell..?

" Op see it like this:
Yahweh condemn you even though u were not born yet because some
mythical adam and his rib turned wif eve ate an apple because a talking
snake told them to.
Then instead of just forgive them he didn't, he sent his son to be
murdered and tortured sacrificed to him so he can forgive you a sin that
you have not committed yet knowing that you were not born yet but will
still throw you in hell if you do..
makes perfect sense "

If you can't point it out, then it will prove the straw man fallacy you always employ to make baseless points.. I have told you time without numbers to stop it..

Let me give a better explanation because yours is completely wrong:
God saved us and brought us back to live because Adam sinned and He died.
For example: If your forefather died before he gave birth you would be dead today.
When Adam committed sin (before he had any child) every man died in him. Everybody from Adam down to us were born dead. We were all walking dead.
God sent Jesus to give us life.

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

Jesus said he came so that we might have life. Now we are free from death and we can now enjoy freedom.

Hiswordxray:

God is a God of justice and He never change. He can't just ignore our sins like that. Every sin must be punish and this is justice. If a sin could go without being punished then God is unjust. This is why God can't just have mercy on us just like that.
Justice and mercy cannot mixed, it is either justice or mercy. God can not forego justice for mercy because this will make Him unjust. And God's love won't make Him to forego mercy and always satisfy justice.
God's wisdom allow Him to figure out a way to always satisfy justice and at the same time be mercy. And this way is the shedding of blood.
This is why Jesus had to shed his blood.

What about the people of Nineveh ....

An2elect2:


The bible does not teach salvation for every man that ever lived or will ever live. It talks about a saviour who came to this world to redeem those he had chosen as His from the beginning in Him not on the grounds of anything that they have done or their merits but based on his sovereign election. That's why you see analogies like the shepherd only dying for his sheep.

That would have been true if this was not in the Bible:
"1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world." (1John 2:1-2).

sonmvayina:



What about the people of Nineveh ....

"25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus." (Rom 3:25-26)

God didn't just ignore the sins of the Nineveh. But God took their sins, liad it on Jesus and punished the sins because every sin must be punished. God can not be unjust.

Afrobaseyemi:
How true is it that Jesus died for my sins?

It is clear and without doubt, very true that Jesus died for mankind's sins

Afrobaseyemi:
I'm a new convert, but right now I'm finding it difficult that somebody could die for my sins...hard to believe.

Why are you finding it difficult that somebody could die for your sins?
What particularly is hard to believe in that?

Afrobaseyemi:
You can be of help if you know of any convincing answers

Some convincing answers will be, dont be surprised that God is love
and fight the truth that God shows His love by lavishing it on undeserving people, who are, in rebellion or against Him

God publicly demonstrates his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us

This is real love - not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent his Son as a sacrifice to take away our sins

johnydon22:
Op see it like this:
Yahweh condemn you even though u were not born yet because some mythical adam and his rib turned wif eve ate an apple because a talking snake told them to.

Then instead of just forgive them he didn't, he sent his son to be murdered and tortured sacrificed to him so he can forgive you a sin that you have not committed yet knowing that you were not born yet but will still throw you in hell if you do..
makes perfect sense

Macelliot:
Why running up and down on a deadly mission....
Answer my question...
You can deny the existence of your Mom to prove your atheism.....
Fake atheist...

johnydon22:
another emotional yarn from a dumbass... Can you show me where their was a mistake from my post

johnydon22:
What exactly is your problem? why the constant ad hominems without making sense...

Honestly you will make me to stop paying any mind to ur posts because you dont make sense just attack the person... Very childish..

On this thread, you started the "dumbass" name calling with Macelliot and that is "very childish"

Hiswordxray:
Yes that is what we want.
Stop responding to our post and leave religion section or stay and get converted

Guess the poster is a troll who without making senses, constantly and ignorantly posts on christian religion threads

Ignorant about the fruit eaten, not being an apple
Ignorant about the serpent, before the curse, not being a snake
Ignorant about sin, as a heredity or inherited trait
Ignorant about judgement passing and sentencing to the lake of fire
So conceited to the extent of blantantly displaying an outright ignorant of the misapprehension of what hell is or what it really is about
Ignorant of the origin of the word hell, its historical development and the way in which its original meanings over time has changed.

Hiswordxray:

That would have been true if this was not in the Bible:
"1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world." (1John 2:1-2).

Okay. I get where you are coming from. But hold on are you seriously trying to convince me with just two verses that seem to agree with your view against the multitude of scriptures that teach particular redemption? LOL you no try o.

Well i must admit that this particular verse(2) had put me in a dilemma when i was still struggling with the teaching of limited atonement.

A glance at this verse(2) from a universal point of view will mean Christ died for all with no exception. However a look at this verse from the biblical perspective can only mean Christ died for all without distinction.

Before i explain what that means, it is important that we know that Christ died for ALL "our" sins including the sin of unbelief/acceptance of him as the saviour and Son of God.

1John 3:23 "And this is his commandment that we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ."

Sin is transgression of the law/commandment. This verse implies that unbelief is a sin. If we do not obey this commandment we have sinned. Now was this sin included in the sins that Christ died for? yes. That is why salvation is of the LORD Jonah 2:9 It does not lie in our acceptance of God but in God's sovereign election.

Was everybody's sin atoned for? If yes, everyman without exception must be saved for Christ has paid for their sins including the sin of "rejection of him" or unbelief but you will agree with me that that is not the case. Not everyone gets saved.

Isaiah 53:5" But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities, the chastisement of our peace was upon him and with his stripes we are healed."

Look at the latter part of vs 8" for he was cut out of the land of the living, for the transgression of my people was he stricken"

vs 12 " He shall see of the travail of his soul and shall be satisfied, by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many, for he shall bear their iniquities"

Who did Christ go through all these for? if everybody then it was a failed redemption and of no use to the multitude that flood hell. If healing of the soul can only come through Christ's suffering and death as seen above and every man's redemption was obtained then every soul must be saved without a single one lost.

He went through all these for the many that will eventually believe and he looked at what he had done and was satisfied. God was satisfied because the redemption was perfect and complete and of course 100% effectual.

John 10:11 "I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd giveth his life for his sheep"

His sheep. Did you see that? is everybody his sheep?

John 10:26 " But you believe not because you are not of my sheep, as i said unto you."

Notice! election precedes belief! those who believed, believed because they were of his sheep. Not the other way round. Believing does not make you a sheep. Only sheep believe! Not everyone's sin( including unbelief/acceptance)was paid for.

This is what Christ's death without distinction means and what 1John 2:1,2 means.

Revelation 5:9 "... for thou was slain, and has redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue and people and nation

First of all we are redeemed back to God by the blood of Christ plus nothing. Did the redemption include our acceptance of him according to our "free will" so called? God forbid.

Secondly notice that the redeemed where from every nation, tribe etc. without distinction. At times "all" is used in some bible passages just like the "whole world" used in the passage you quoted. Apart from the jewish christians then, according to John there are God's people all over the world whose sins were appropriated for and not just their own. God's chosen people who are scattered abroad can and will only obtain salvation throught the death of one man.. And this man came in time to effect this.

who the fvck is jesus?

im living for that mugus sins

Hiswordxray:

"25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus." (Rom 3:25-26)

God didn't just ignore the sins of the Nineveh. But God took their sins, liad it on Jesus and punished the sins because every sin must be punished. God can not be unjust.

at embolden good. Including the sin of unbelief/acceptance/rejection. Christ died for this one too!

An2elect2:
Okay. I get where you are coming from. But hold on are you seriously trying to convince me with just two verses that seem to agree with your view against the multitude of scriptures that teach particular redemption? LOL you no try o.

Well i must admit that this particular verse(2) had put me in a dilemma when i was still struggling with the teaching of limited atonement.

A glance at this verse(2) from a universal point of view will mean Christ died for all with no exception. However a look at this verse from the biblical perspective can only mean Christ died for all without distinction.

Before i explain what that means, it is important that we know that Christ died for ALL "our" sins including the sin of unbelief/acceptance of him as the saviour and Son of God.

1John 3:23 "And this is his commandment that we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ."

Sin is transgression of the law/commandment. This verse teaches that unbelief is a sin. If we do not obey this commandment we have sinned. Now was this sin included in the sins that Christ died for? yes. That is why salvation is of the LORD Jonah 2:9 It does not lie in our acceptance of God but in God's sovereign election.

Was everybody's sin atoned for?
If yes, everyman without exception must be saved for Christ has paid for their sins including the sin of "rejection of him" or unbelief but you will agree with me that that is not the case. Not everyone gets saved.

Yes everybody's sin was paid for
God is omniscient, having complete awareness, unlimited knowledge or understanding and perceiving all things
He knows the end from the beginning, as so in relation to "sovereign election", He knows who the beneficiaries of salvation will be.
God knows those given the parachute who will stubbornly not pull the string after jumping off the plane
Salvation is not forcibly given or offered against will
Some of the realities of life are that people get things paid in full for them, that sometimes dont get picked up and so gets returned back to the depot unclaimed

Let's digress for a moment, to briefly delve in deep waters a bit.
Sin is a symptom, a malaise of some sort, it needs to rear its ugly head, allowed to bring out or do its worst and run its full course
When it is allowed to develop and to finish naturally, then as promised, sin will be no more

An2elect2:
Isaiah 53:5" But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities, the chastisement of our peace was upon him and with his stripes we are healed."

Look at the latter part of vs 8" for he was cut out of the land of the living, for the transgression of my people was he stricken"

vs 12 " He shall see of the travail of his soul and shall be satisfied, by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many, for he shall bear their iniquities"

Who did Christ go through all these for? if everybody then it was a failed redemption and of no use to the multitude that flood hell.

He went go through all of those for mankind
No, it isnt necessarily a failed redemption
The multitude that flood sheol and later transiting to the lake of fire, unfortunately are the irredeemables

An2elect2:
If healing of the soul can only come through Christ's suffering and death as seen above and every man's redemption was obtained then every soul must be saved without a single one lost.

It is a bit more complex than that but trust God, salvageable souls will be saved

An2elect2:
John 10:11 "I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd giveth his life for his sheep"

His sheep. Did you see that? is everybody his sheep?

John 10:26 " But you believe not because you are not of my sheep, as i said unto you."

Yes, saw the sheep. No everybody is not his sheep.
Those that are not, are goats
Refer to Matthew 25:31–46 for more on the Sheep and the Goats

An2elect2:
at embolden good.
Including the sin of unbelief/acceptance/rejection. Christ died for this one too!

Yes and those ones, the sin of unbelief/acceptance/rejection too
Christ died for us missing the mark, which essentially is what sin is.
It however does belittle the fact and truth that some will inherit the Kingdom and some inherit eternal damnation.

If one resigns to the truth that God is good, right-minded, honest, trustworthy, fair and just, then these things are easy to take in and understand fully.

Lex11:
OP... continue to read the word of God, the Bible... and believe its entire content, because its entire content is true.

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." - 2 Timothy 3:16-17
... also Psalm 12:6.

And stop worrying! (Matt. 6:26-28)

Thanks lex for your great inspiration, and to others too you've been of help.

And to those who criticize while I converted, I think I have the right to choose any religion I desire.

An2elect2:


Okay. I get where you are coming from. But hold on are you seriously trying to convince me with just two verses that seem to agree with your view against the multitude of scriptures that teach particular redemption? LOL you no try o.

Well i must admit that this particular verse(2) had put me in a dilemma when i was still struggling with the teaching of limited atonement.

A glance at this verse(2) from a universal point of view will mean Christ died for all with no exception. However a look at this verse from the biblical perspective can only mean Christ died for all without distinction.

Before i explain what that means, it is important that we know that Christ died for ALL "our" sins including the sin of unbelief/acceptance of him as the saviour and Son of God.

1John 3:23 "And this is his commandment that we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ."

Sin is transgression of the law/commandment. This verse implies that unbelief is a sin. If we do not obey this commandment we have sinned. Now was this sin included in the sins that Christ died for? yes. That is why salvation is of the LORD Jonah 2:9 It does not lie in our acceptance of God but in God's sovereign election.

Was everybody's sin atoned for? If yes, everyman without exception must be saved for Christ has paid for their sins including the sin of "rejection of him" or unbelief but you will agree with me that that is not the case. Not everyone gets saved.

Isaiah 53:5" But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities, the chastisement of our peace was upon him and with his stripes we are healed."

Look at the latter part of vs 8" for he was cut out of the land of the living, for the transgression of my people was he stricken"

vs 12 " He shall see of the travail of his soul and shall be satisfied, by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many, for he shall bear their iniquities"

Who did Christ go through all these for? if everybody then it was a failed redemption and of no use to the multitude that flood hell. If healing of the soul can only come through Christ's suffering and death as seen above and every man's redemption was obtained then every soul must be saved without a single one lost.

He went through all these for the many that will eventually believe and he looked at what he had done and was satisfied. God was satisfied because the redemption was perfect and complete and of course 100% effectual.

John 10:11 "I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd giveth his life for his sheep"

His sheep. Did you see that? is everybody his sheep?

John 10:26 " But you believe not because you are not of my sheep, as i said unto you."

Notice! election precedes belief! those who believed, believed because they were of his sheep. Not the other way round. Believing does not make you a sheep. Only sheep believe! Not everyone's sin( including unbelief/acceptance)was paid for.

This is what Christ's death without distinction means and what 1John 2:1,2 means.

Revelation 5:9 "... for thou was slain, and has redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue and people and nation

First of all we are redeemed back to God by the blood of Christ plus nothing. Did the redemption include our acceptance of him according to our "free will" so called? God forbid.

Secondly notice that the redeemed where from every nation, tribe etc. without distinction. At times "all" is used in some bible passages just like the "whole world" used in the passage you quoted. Apart from the jewish christians then, according to John there are God's people all over the world whose sins were appropriated for and not just their own. God's chosen people who are scattered abroad can and will only obtain salvation throught the death of one man.. And this man came in time to effect this.

"20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross." (Col 1:20)

"18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation." (2Cor 5:18-19)

He didn't ooo, no believe dem aswear..If u sin u r a sinner

An atheist opened this thread not because he wants answers, he just wants to scorn at christ. But don't worry, u r welcome to scorn, if u r not there, they won't be any record of scorners. The Muslims are there to persecute. All working to bring to pass Jehovahs prophecies. People like u don't bother me. Jonnydon and the other wretches are like vultures hovering over anything that is christian so that they will show their emptiness. Like the pharisees, always present wherever christ went, not because they want to hear wat he has to say, but to find faults. But don't worry, its a road u r working, it leads somewhere. kontinu.

Hiswordxray:

"20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross." (Col 1:20)

"18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation." (2Cor 5:18-19)

These verses do not contradict particular redemption in anyway. I think you should make your points clear with the scriptures you've cited.

MuttleyLaff:

Yes everybody's sin was paid for
God is omniscient, having complete awareness, unlimited knowledge or understanding and perceiving all things
He knows the end from the beginning, as so in relation to "sovereign election", He knows who the beneficiaries of salvation will be.
God knows those given the parachute who will stubbornly not pull the string after jumping off the plane
Salvation is not forcibly given or offered against will
Some of the realities of life are that people get things paid in full for them, that sometimes dont get picked up and so gets returned back to the depot unclaimed

Let's digress for a moment, to briefly delve in deep waters a bit.
Sin is a symptom, a malaise of some sort, it needs to rear its ugly head, allowed to bring out or do its worst and run its full course
When it is allowed to develop and to finish naturally, then as promised, sin will be no more


He went go through all of those for mankind
No, it isnt necessarily a failed redemption
The multitude that flood sheol and later transiting to the lake of fire, unfortunately are the irredeemables


It is a bit more complex than that but trust God, salvageable souls will be saved


Yes, saw the sheep. No everybody is not his sheep.
Those that are not, are goats
Refer to Matthew 25:31–46 for more on the Sheep and the Goats

Okay. But i think when it comes to the truth we should drop our opinions/beliefs/ideologies or whatever for the word of God. Don't you think so too?

I read through what you typed, and there are contradictions here and there and of course your personal opinion and what you've been taught.

I'll prefer you cite bible passages( rightly dividing the word) to back every point you raised to counter my post.

Thank you.

An2elect2:


These verses do not contradict particular redemption in anyway. I think you should make your points clear with the scriptures you've cited.

Don't worry, I don't want to get into an argument.
But just look at these verses:

"12 If we endure, We shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him, He also will deny us 13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself." (2Tim 2:12-13)

An2elect2:


Okay. But i think when it comes to the truth we should drop our opinions/beliefs/ideologies or whatever for the word of God. Don't you think so too?

I read through what you typed, and there are contradictions here and there and of course your personal opinion and what you've been taught.

I'll prefer you cite bible passages( rightly dividing the word) to back every point you raised to counter my post.

Thank you.

Madam abeg which church do you go to? I would love to know.

From what I read you totally confused the scriptures. Even a scripture such as John 3:16 falsifies your claims. And not to mention others.

An2elect2:
Okay.
But i think when it comes to the truth we should drop our opinions/beliefs/ideologies or whatever for the word of God.

What I have in my hands and holding tightly on to, are, truth and theology.
Both, even if they are piping hot, I dont see myself dropping them
If and when am doing opinions/beliefs/ideologies, I'll warn you in advance about it

An2elect2:
Don't you think so too?

What I think is: "Sometimes people don't want to hear the truth because they don't want their illusions destroyed"

I also think the below first, second and third.
First, you, should practice what you preach. Second, are you handling the truth well. Third, you really need to notice what my signature says

An2elect2:
I read through what you typed, and there are contradictions here and there and of course your personal opinion and what you've been taught.

Aw, an incognito proofreader
Well, I will so much be indebted to you if you will kindly oblige outline out "the contradictions here and there and of course the personal opinion"

I am also particularly interested you revealing what it was I have been taught and who the teacher is or was

An2elect2:
I'll prefer you cite bible passages ( rightly dividing the word) to back every point you raised to counter my post.

I referred you to Matthew 25:31–46 as when it was suitable or proper in the circumstances, to cite bible passages, didn't I?
Be careful what you wish for...
but never mind, as now that I know you're a glutton for bible passages,
I promise, trust me, I'll take advantage of the next window of opportunity, cite bible passages and feed you a great deal of them to gorge on

An2elect2:
Thank you.

No, you, thank you.

Jeromejnr:
Madam abeg which church do you go to? I would love to know.

From what I read you totally confused the scriptures.

Even a scripture such as John 3:16 falsifies your claims. And not to mention others.

A little bird told me, she was once influenced by DCLM
Re-phrasing, question to Madam now, would be, who is your teacher?

MuttleyLaff:

A little bird told me, she was once influenced by DCLM
Re-phrasing, question to Madam now, would be, who is your teacher?

Yea that's a better question. Some strange teachings in the church these days.

I just wanted to know her denomination so I could understand where the root of her belief comes from.

Jeromejnr:
Yea that's a better question. Some strange teachings in the church these days.

I just wanted to know her denomination so I could understand where the root of her belief comes from.

To start with she has in the past fraternized with DCLM
She broke free of DCLM's shackles and threw them off
Her current circle, whom she associates with, rub minds with or fellowships with is yours or anyones guess