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Muslims, Why Did You Fail To Probe This? by truthman2012(m): 5:00pm On Apr 16, 2015
Muslims are expected to probe into why Allah did not maintain his words in the quran. For so many verses of the quran there are the reverses, making the book very unreliable. Why would God not keep to his words? Why did he reverse his statement in order too suit particular situations? How would he say both man and jinns are incapable of producing a book like the quran with its inconsistencies? Why did he say there is no discrepancy in the book? All these questions should put muslims in the notice the need for proper probing of Allah’s book – quran

The reverses of the words of allah are in red:

There is no compulsion in Allah’s Religion

[Quran 2:256] Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trust-worthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

[Quran 8:39] And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world ]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.” (Quran 8:39)

(Sahih Muslim 1:33) The Messenger of Allah said: "I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay zakat."

(Bukhari 2:24)."Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah


The words of Allah is not subject to change

[Quran 6:115] Perfected is the Word of thy Lord in truth and justice. There is naught (nothing) that can change His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.

[Quran 2:106] Nothing of our revelation (even a single verse) do we abrogate or cause be forgotten, but we bring (in place) one better or the like thereof. Knowest thou not that Allah is Able to do all things? Here allah changes his words by replacement after saying his words cannot change.

Abraham and Ishmael were in Mecca and built Kaaba

[Quran 2:127] And when Abraham and Ishmael were raising the foundations of the House, (Abraham prayed): Our Lord! Accept from us (this duty). Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Hearer, the Knower.

[Quran 34:44 YusufAli] But We had not given them Books which they could study, nor sent messengers to them before thee as Warners. "Nor sent messengers to them before Muhammad as Warners" after he had said Abraham and Ishmael were there as messengers and built Kaaba.

Christianity, Sabaeanism and Islam are all acceptable to Allah

[Quran 2:62] Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

[Quran 3:85] If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).

[Quran 9:17] It is not for such as join gods with Allah, to visit or maintain the mosques of Allah while they witness against their own souls to infidelity. The works of such bear no fruit: In Fire shall they dwell.


All of Allah’s Messengers are equal

[Q uran 2:285] The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in Allah, His angels, His books, and His messengers. "We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His messengers." And they say: "We hear, and we obey: (We seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys."

[Quran 2:253] We have made some of these messengers to excel the others among them are they to whom Allah spoke, and some of them He exalted by (many degrees of) rank; and We gave clear miracles to Isa son of Marium, and strengthened him with the holy spirit. And if Allah had pleased, those after them would not have fought one with another after clear arguments had come to them, but they disagreed; so there were some of them who believed and others who denied; and if Allah had pleased they would not have fought one with another, but Allah brings about what He intends.

How to treat infidels

[Quran 9:29]Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel them-selves subdued.

[Quran 45:14] Tell those who believe,to forgive[/b]those who do not look forward to the Days of Allah: It is for Him to re-compense (for good or ill) each People according to what they have earned.

[b]Do the Jews love or hate each other?


[Quran 5:51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends;they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

[Quran 5:64] And the Jews say: The hand of Allah is tied up! Their hands shall be shackled and they shall be cursed for what they say. Nay, both His hands are spread out, He expends as He pleases; and what has been revealed to you from your Lord will certainly make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief;and We have put enmity and hatred among them till the day of resurrection[/b]whenever they kindle a fire for war Allah puts it out, and they strive to make mischief in the land; and Allah does not love the mischief-makers.

[b]Muslims cannot marry non-muslim women


[Quran 2:221]Do not marry unbelieving women (idolaters),until they believe: A slave woman who believes is better than an unbelieving woman, even though she allures you. Nor marry (your girls) to unbelievers until they believe: A man slave who believes is better than an unbeliever, even though he allures you. Unbelievers do (but) beckon you to the Fire. But Allah beckons by His Grace to the Garden (of bliss) and forgiveness, and makes His Signs clear to mankind: That they may celebrate His praise.

[Quran 5:5] This day (all) the good things are allowed to you; and the food of those who have been given the Book is lawful for you and your food is lawful for them; and the chaste from among the believing women[b]and the chaste from among those who have been given the Book be-fore you (are lawful for you);[/b]when you have given them their dowries, taking (them) in marriage, not fornicating nor taking them for paramours in secret; and whoever denies faith, his work indeed is of no account, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.

Quran was sent to the Arabs

[Quran 41:44] Had We sent this as a Qur'an (in the language) other than Arabic, they would have said: "Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a Book) not in Arabic and (a Messenger an Arab?" Say: "It is a Guide and a Healing to those who believe; and for those who believe not, there is a deafness in their ears, and it is blindness in their (eyes): They are (as it were) being called from a place far distant!"

[Qurani 4:174] O mankind! verily there hath come to you a convincing proof from your Lord: For We have sent unto you a light (that is) manifest

Muslims probe and let's have your findings.

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Re: Muslims, Why Did You Fail To Probe This? by tartar9(m): 6:13pm On Apr 16, 2015
Moderators: emusmith, OAM4J Islam section
Re: Muslims, Why Did You Fail To Probe This? by eyeopener: 9:25am On Apr 18, 2015
truthman2012:
Muslims are expected to probe into why Allah did not maintain his words in the quran. For so many verses of the quran there are the reverses, making the book very unreliable. Why would God not keep to his words? Why did he reverse his statement in order too suit particular situations? How would he say both man and jinns are incapable of producing a book like the quran with its inconsistencies? Why did he say there is no discrepancy in the book? All these questions should put muslims in the notice the need for proper probing of Allah’s book – quran

The reverses of the words of allah are in red:

There is no compulsion in Allah’s Religion

[Quran 2:256] Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trust-worthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

[Quran 8:39] And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world ]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.” (Quran 8:39)

(Sahih Muslim 1:33) The Messenger of Allah said: "I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay zakat."

(Bukhari 2:24)."Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah


The words of Allah is not subject to change

[Quran 6:115] Perfected is the Word of thy Lord in truth and justice. There is naught (nothing) that can change His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.

[Quran 2:106] Nothing of our revelation (even a single verse) do we abrogate or cause be forgotten, but we bring (in place) one better or the like thereof. Knowest thou not that Allah is Able to do all things? Here allah changes his words by replacement after saying his words cannot change.

Abraham and Ishmael were in Mecca and built Kaaba

[Quran 2:127] And when Abraham and Ishmael were raising the foundations of the House, (Abraham prayed): Our Lord! Accept from us (this duty). Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Hearer, the Knower.

[Quran 34:44 YusufAli] But We had not given them Books which they could study, nor sent messengers to them before thee as Warners. "Nor sent messengers to them before Muhammad as Warners" after he had said Abraham and Ishmael were there as messengers and built Kaaba.

Christianity, Sabaeanism and Islam are all acceptable to Allah

[Quran 2:62] Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

[Quran 3:85] If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).

[Quran 9:17] It is not for such as join gods with Allah, to visit or maintain the mosques of Allah while they witness against their own souls to infidelity. The works of such bear no fruit: In Fire shall they dwell.


All of Allah’s Messengers are equal

[Q uran 2:285] The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in Allah, His angels, His books, and His messengers. "We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His messengers." And they say: "We hear, and we obey: (We seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys."

[Quran 2:253] We have made some of these messengers to excel the others among them are they to whom Allah spoke, and some of them He exalted by (many degrees of) rank; and We gave clear miracles to Isa son of Marium, and strengthened him with the holy spirit. And if Allah had pleased, those after them would not have fought one with another after clear arguments had come to them, but they disagreed; so there were some of them who believed and others who denied; and if Allah had pleased they would not have fought one with another, but Allah brings about what He intends.

How to treat infidels

[Quran 9:29]Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel them-selves subdued.

[Quran 45:14] Tell those who believe,to forgive[/b]those who do not look forward to the Days of Allah: It is for Him to re-compense (for good or ill) each People according to what they have earned.

[b]Do the Jews love or hate each other?


[Quran 5:51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends;they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

[Quran 5:64] And the Jews say: The hand of Allah is tied up! Their hands shall be shackled and they shall be cursed for what they say. Nay, both His hands are spread out, He expends as He pleases; and what has been revealed to you from your Lord will certainly make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief;and We have put enmity and hatred among them till the day of resurrection[/b]whenever they kindle a fire for war Allah puts it out, and they strive to make mischief in the land; and Allah does not love the mischief-makers.

[b]Muslims cannot marry non-muslim women


[Quran 2:221]Do not marry unbelieving women (idolaters),until they believe: A slave woman who believes is better than an unbelieving woman, even though she allures you. Nor marry (your girls) to unbelievers until they believe: A man slave who believes is better than an unbeliever, even though he allures you. Unbelievers do (but) beckon you to the Fire. But Allah beckons by His Grace to the Garden (of bliss) and forgiveness, and makes His Signs clear to mankind: That they may celebrate His praise.

[Quran 5:5] This day (all) the good things are allowed to you; and the food of those who have been given the Book is lawful for you and your food is lawful for them; and the chaste from among the believing women[b]and the chaste from among those who have been given the Book be-fore you (are lawful for you);[/b]when you have given them their dowries, taking (them) in marriage, not fornicating nor taking them for paramours in secret; and whoever denies faith, his work indeed is of no account, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.

Quran was sent to the Arabs

[Quran 41:44] Had We sent this as a Qur'an (in the language) other than Arabic, they would have said: "Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a Book) not in Arabic and (a Messenger an Arab?" Say: "It is a Guide and a Healing to those who believe; and for those who believe not, there is a deafness in their ears, and it is blindness in their (eyes): They are (as it were) being called from a place far distant!"

[Qurani 4:174] O mankind! verily there hath come to you a convincing proof from your Lord: For We have sent unto you a light (that is) manifest

Muslims probe and let's have your findings.


I hereby constitute a 5-man probe panel to look into the matter comprising the following islamic scholars:

tbaba123 - Chairman

Vedaxcool - Secretary

Rilwayne - Member

Empiree - Member

Abuaman - Member

Report is expected to be submitted within two days.

Thank you.
Re: Muslims, Why Did You Fail To Probe This? by Empiree: 7:44am On Apr 19, 2015
ok eyeopener, but you did not type 3 monikers correctly. They are tbaba, Abuaman and Rilwayne. Look for them and properly type their monikers so they know you called them.

As for your request (op), very simple.
Re: Muslims, Why Did You Fail To Probe This? by tayebest(m): 1:52pm On Apr 19, 2015
Following...
Re: Muslims, Why Did You Fail To Probe This? by decisive(m): 2:39pm On Apr 19, 2015
Thank you brother. You have asked a decisive question. You are obviously a good reader. You had logical questions there. In sha Allah I will try to bring answers concisely to you here. We are brothers,let's learn together.

1) There is no compulsion in Allah's religion.
You rightly quoted the right verses. That there isn't compulsion in religion has been one fundamentals of peaceful living of muslims with others. Q2:256 only states that Allah abhors forcing anybody to accept or follow Islam,since whosoever chose to follow has held onto a strong handhold that breaks not and whosoever chose not to has missed the way. Allah is saying everybody has free will to chose his path,to success or destruction. Now,onto Q8:39. Note the word 'fitnah' meaning obstruction,rebellion,outright mischief making. Allah commanded to fight whosoever of the believers that intentionally puts wedge onto the ways of people who chose to believe or have believed. Such people they have control over,or prohibiting the believing people to practise their believe. So,the prophet was commanded to fight injustice until the freedom of choice and association is established. So,if the prophet won or surrendered,they are free to surender and do not pay tax to muslims,but if they chose not to convert,then they are subjected to islamic laws and they pay tax. Either way,all religions become Allah's alone.

2) The words of Allah doesn't change.
Q6:115,this verse is about commands of Allah. Whatever He says he would do. Whatever He wish to bring to live of creations,actions(rewards and punishments). In all the commands and the sequence of his creations,His words are perfected. Where as Q2:106 is refering to laws governing muslims I.e the sharia. Note the word ABROGATE. Just as we seek improvement in our lives and we review laws,Allh's encompassing wisdom knows how changes can make laws administration difficult,so he abrogates the old and difficult ones and enacts easier one. For He says in the Qura'an 'verily,Allah wants ease of affairs for you,He doesn't want hardship for you'.

3) Abraham and Ismaheel were in Mecca and Built Ka'abah
My noble brother,you failed to understand this.too.Q2:127 actually meant that. That Abraham and Ismaheel raised the foundation of KA'aba and the supplicated. True. As to Q34:44 you cited.Allah was talking about the disbelievers. A read from verse 43 gives insight to this:
Verse 43:'and when a our communications(revealations) are recited to them,they say: this is naught but a man who desires to turn you away from that which your fathers worshipped. And they say: this is naught but a lie that is forged. And those who disbelieve say of the truth when it comes to them. This is only a clearenchantment.
Verse 44 : and we have not given them any book they read,nor did we send to them before you a warner.(Meaning,among this arabs disbelievers we haven't sent anyone before you as a warner)

4) Christianity,Sabaenism and Islam are acceptable to Allah.
Q2 is an earlyMeccan surah,meaning it was revealed when Islam is at early formative stage. At that time,there were xtiansand Jews and Sabians and that believed in Oneness of Allah,who stood by the true revelationsof Moses and Jesus. Since Quran has monotheism as its foundation,so if anyone has the believe he will be duely rewarded. Just as He say in says in Surat AL-Zilzalah:'whosoever does smallest amount good deeds,shall have the rewards,and whosoever does smallest amount of bad deeds shall have the rewards.
On the other hand,Q9:17 refers to disbelievers in the words of Allah still visiting the holy Ka'aba after the muslims have defeated disbelievers and they have also conquer mecca. Q3:85 came on when Islam is widespread. When there is total awareness and when there is nota single barrier to accept Islam. They have tools,space and teacher. So the verse means,now that we have perfected ways into Islam for you,what would give as excuse that you aren't a muslim,your not being one is your desire, 'so if anyone desires a religion other than Islam,never will it be accepted fron him...

5) All of Allah's Messengers are Equal.
Muslims hold all the prophets in high esteem. We believe in all of the as holy men who teache us about ways of Allah. That is asimple explanation of Q2:285. As to Q2:253,that we believe in them doesn't not means they are equal with Allah. He knows why He choses each of them. Some have unrivalled piety,some have patience,some have tremendous physical powers,He gave some spiritual healing,eloquence etc. So,while the first verse you quoted means we believe in all of them without exception,the second verse talks about hierachy Allah puts each of them with reasons known to Him only. We treat them equally,Allah gives them rank.

6) How to treat Infidels
In Q9:29,note 'those who believe not in Allah nor last day' meaning the chronic disbeliever,because they would incessantly against the believers and seek to oppose religion of Allah,they are to pay tax if the don't want to convert and if they refused to pay they should be fought until they either pay or willingly convert but Q45:14 you cited refers to believers that were offended by the disbelievers. Brothers separated by religious differences.

7) Do the Jews love or hate eachother.
Sir,you didn't read what you quoted well. The first verse5:51 talks about the enmity between the jews and christians. Its ideological difference. No doubt about that,and the other verse only implies that because the Jews are treacherous,He puts enmity between them and He helps Islam by quelling any rebellion of the Jews because they are guarded by evils in them.

7) Muslims can not marry Non-Muslim women
Islam make distiction from Jew,Chiristians and disbelievers(idolators). Xtians and Jews are 'people of the Book(Old and New Testaments). The reasons is both books are revealed by Allah despite whatever may have happened to them afterwards. So,they are believers in Allah but the idolators are absolutely unbelieving. So,marrying a believing slave is better than best of idolators women.

cool Qur'an was sent to the Arabs.
Before Muhammad was born,there had been information mentioning his coming. The Jews and Christians knew this. Then,Arab nation has never had books governing them like Jews and Christians. Allah then chose to bring the prophet from a nation lawlessly barbaric. Out of Allah'sbenevolence He sent the prophet,an illiterate arab and the Quran in Arabic. Since the arabs have been neglected for years in guidance and been savagely,returning them to ways of Allah is a more of a miracle than both Jews and Christian who still have books of guidance with them. Allah raised the Arab prophet and the Quran in Arabic as an attestation of His capability of bringing salvation from anywhere He pleases. Since,Allah wants to establish a Just society,He started the orderliness from the most savagery and unpolish nation to serve as an example to the whole world. At that time,how much influence did the jews and xtians have on them.
Just as He used Jesus a an example of His universal strength of healing,He uses Arab as specimen of universal correction and rehabilitation onto his way. Were Qur'an revealed in Greek or Hebrew,it may not have much impact when a revealation has just closed centuries away.
In essence,the qur'an isn't meant for the arabs,it the particular colour because importance of lessons to learn from them.
This is the little I can write now.
Thanks for the questions. You are brother indeed.

1 Like

Re: Muslims, Why Did You Fail To Probe This? by decisive(m): 2:43pm On Apr 19, 2015
Pls,pardon any mistake observed in the answer I gave. I was in hurry and I didn't edit it. Thanks for the understanding.
Re: Muslims, Why Did You Fail To Probe This? by eyeopener: 4:11pm On Apr 19, 2015
decisive

Even though you are not a member of the probe panel I set up, I must commend your maturity, gentleness, civility and your choice of words. It is great. If religious debate always go this way, the world will be better for it.

However, I have some areas of disagreement I would still wants us to look into.

There is no compulsion in Allah's religion.
You rightly quoted the right verses. That there isn't compulsion in religion has been one fundamentals of peaceful living of muslims with others. Q2:256 only states that Allah abhors forcing anybody to accept or follow Islam,since whosoever chose to follow has held onto a strong handhold that breaks not and whosoever chose not to has missed the way. Allah is saying everybody has free will to chose his path,to success or destruction. Now,onto Q8:39. Note the word 'fitnah' meaning obstruction,rebellion,outright mischief making. Allah commanded to fight whosoever of the believers that intentionally puts wedge onto the ways of people who chose to believe or have believed. Such people they have control over,or prohibiting the believing people to practise their believe.[b]So,the prophet was commanded to fight injustice until the freedom of choice and association is established. So,if the prophet won or surrendered,they are free to surender and do not pay tax to [/b]muslims, but if they chose not to convert,then they are subjected to islamic laws and they pay tax. Either way,all religions become Allah's alone.

I would have loved the bolded if the case was so. But it it seems it was far more than that going by the cited hadiths.

(Sahih Muslim 1:33) The Messenger of Allah said: "I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay zakat."

(Bukhari 2:24)."Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah

Bukhari (59:643) - "Testify that none has the right to be worshipped except Allah, or else I will chop off your neck!" This is absolute COMPULSION.

These hadiths clearly show the purpose for which the prophet was commanded to fight. The order to fight was to ensure that no other religion remains apart from islam. This runs contrary to freedom of choice and association being established as you claimed. Therefore, this order remains the opposite of "no compulsion in religion.

The words of Allah doesn't change.
Q6:115,this verse is about commands of Allah. Whatever He says he would do. Whatever He wish to bring to live of creations,actions(rewards and punishments). In all the commands and the sequence of his creations,His words are perfected. Where as Q2:106 is refering to laws governing muslims I.e the sharia. Note the word ABROGATE.Just as we seek improvement in our lives and we review laws,Allh's encompassing wisdom knows how changes can make laws administration difficult,so he abrogates the old and difficult ones and enacts easier one. For He says in the Qura'an 'verily,Allah wants ease of affairs for you,He doesn't want hardship for you'.

[Quran 2:106] Nothing of our revelation(even a single verse) do we abrogate or cause be forgotten, but we bring (in place) one better or the like thereof. Knowest thou not that Allah is Able to do all things? Here Allah changes his words by replacement after saying his words cannot change.

This verse is talking about revelations generally and there is nothing to show that it is about Sharia Law. Sharia laws are not completely found in the Quran, many of them are hadith-based. E.g sharia law on divorcement, burial etc. I stand to be corrected. Certainly, sharia law has nothing to do with the many verses where allah changed or reverse his statement and good examples are in the OP. Clearly stated, allah said he was replacing his revelations with better ones. The question is: Would God have a better idea as all-knowing?

Abraham and Ismaheel were in Mecca and Built Ka'abah
My noble brother,you failed to understand this.too.Q2:127 actually meant that. That Abraham and Ismaheel raised the foundation of KA'aba and the supplicated. True. As to Q34:44 you cited.Allah was talking about the disbelievers. A read from verse 43 gives insight to this:
Verse 43:'and when a our communications(revealations) are recited to them,they say: this is naught but a man who desires to turn you away from that which your fathers worshipped. And they say: this is naught but a lie that is forged. And those who disbelieve say of the truth when it comes to them. This is only a clearenchantment.
Verse 44 : and we have not given them any book they read,nor did we send to them before you a warner.(Meaning,among this arabs disbelievers we haven't sent anyone before you as a warner)

I think if there was a messenger in Arab before prophet Muhammad, the messenger must have been sent to all and sundry. God would not send a messenger to the believers alone, and in fact, the disbelievers need God's messenger to warn them more than the believers. I want to humbly submit that Quran 34:44 means there was not messenger in Arab for both the believers and unbelievers before prophet Muhammad. Then, it is doubtful if Abraham and Ishmael were once in Arab as messengers to build Kaaba.

Again, torah was given to Moses for all muslims of his age and injeel to Jesus for all muslims of his age. Islam was said to have been in existence right from the time of Abraham and Ishmael, why did those books not get to Arab muslims at that time, moreso that they were both children of Abraham? What were they using to guide them in worshiping God as they were not in possession of Allah's Books? Were Arab muslims separated from other muslims in the world at that time? Does that not suggest there was no islam in Arab at that time?

Christianity,Sabaenism and Islam are acceptable to Allah.
Q2 is an earlyMeccan surah,meaning it was revealed when Islam is at early formative stage. At that time,there were xtiansand Jews and Sabians and that believed in Oneness of Allah,who stood by the true revelationsof Moses and Jesus. Since Quran has monotheism as its foundation,so if anyone has the believe he will be duely rewarded. Just as He say in says in Surat AL-Zilzalah:'whosoever does smallest amount good deeds,shall have the rewards,and whosoever does smallest amount of bad deeds shall have the rewards.
On the other hand,Q9:17 refers to disbelievers in the words of Allah still visiting the holy Ka'aba after the muslims have defeated disbelievers and they have also conquer mecca. Q3:85 came on when Islam is widespread. When there is total awareness and when there is nota single barrier to accept Islam. They have tools,space and teacher. So the verse means,now that we have perfected ways into Islam for you,what would give as excuse that you aren't a muslim,your not being one is your desire, 'so if anyone desires a religion other than Islam,never will it be accepted fron him...

The Jews and Christians have never changed their belief right from inception till date. The Jews believed in Oneness of God while the Christians believe in Trinity (Quran 5:116). I am sure Allah knew all this and yet say Jews, Sabeans and Christians were going to heaven with reward (Quran 2:62) and only to change later and say:

[Quran 3:85] If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).

[Quran 9:17] It is not for such as join gods with Allah, to visit or maintain the mosques of Allah while they witness against their own souls to infidelity. The works of such bear no fruit: In Fire shall they dwell.

Is that sharia law too?

Brother, am always surprised to learn that Jews too were being killed by muslims. What is their offence? Afterall they too believe in Oneness of God. Are they idolaters too for believing in one-God? What could be allah's motive for ordering the killing of the Jews (Quran 9:29).

Let's leave other items as they are not as important as the ones discussed above to avoid waste of time.
Re: Muslims, Why Did You Fail To Probe This? by decisive(m): 6:37pm On Apr 19, 2015
I am glad you respond. I know you can't understand all I wrote without comment. It is good to seek truth and to be freed by it. I commend you for taking time to study the books of islam. You must have been an avid reader,one who directs his affairs with true knowledge. You are a brother that assesses ways all the time.

1) On there is no compulsion in religion.
You have cited correct ahadith to butress your point. That is lovely from you. I am happy for that. But sir,you missed your target. Islam is a universal religion. There are benefits for believing totally in it. I know you're soft hearted,you would so much love your kid. Assuming your kid wants to jump down from a cliff,you don't want to spank him but you know he would be injured. He has free will to jump but he is inexperienced he could be hurt. So he's bent on jumping,as lovely as you are,won't you spank him? Youknow the spankingis very minimal to the consequence had you allowed him jump.
Allah wants everybody to serve Him because that's where success is,so the prophet came to bring the message to all without inhibition. However,Allah knows some will be guided,while some won't. So,there isn't compulsion to religion,you're rightly guided or not but you don't stand on the way on its spread. So.the ahadith means 'I have been commanded to fight until the islam reaches everybody'. In some verses,Allah says'you are just a warner'meaning to accept isn't yours.

2) On Allah's words.
I have said that before. His words doesn't change. Abrogation comes only in laws.laws are part of his revealation. I know you are well read.you can bring examples of such. I know you attended higher colleges,why weren't you given all the knowledge once? Why the sequence. Obviously you know the answer. The more you mature the more the knowledge. With theexpansion,Allah calibrate them with laws that would make it easier for them to serve Him and be of help to themselves.

3) On Abraham and Ismaheel.
If you're conversant with history of christianity,you wll agree with me that Abraham didn't live in Mecca neither did he born Ismaheel inMecca where Ka'aba is. As a command from his Lord,he came to Mecca,after he had sent Hagar and her son away on his Lord directives. Abraham and Ismaheel just laid and raised the foundation. None of them was a prophet or messenger to the arabs.
Old testament wasgiven to Jews,New testament to xtians,the book didn't get to them because Moses was basically sent to Jews to liberate them and to know there is one God just Jesus to Xtians. So,the arabs then were idolaters. They had hundreds of idols they worship. Why,the gospels didn't have influence on them.you can do your research.

On Jews,Xtians and others

There is a name that may interest youthat Qur'an is called. Al-Furqan,meaning one that tells difference. The traditional jews believe in oneness of God but later the take their loyalty to their priests and they began to claim their priests as gods. Quran clearly state that.
Likewise,xtianity started on monotheism before abracadbra ofcrusade war brings the trinity. Yet,Quran tells us that the original New Testament tells of oneness of God. So,on that note,we see them as brothers in faith moreso they have revealations.

I appreciate this exercise youbrought. How I wish I could hug but I do it here inmy heart. I see this as enlightening to those who seek knowledge. I hope people find guidance here.
God bless you sir,you remain precious!

1 Like

Re: Muslims, Why Did You Fail To Probe This? by eyeopener: 1:13pm On Apr 20, 2015
decisive:
I am glad you respond. I know you can't understand all I wrote without comment. It is good to seek truth and to be freed by it. I commend you for taking time to study the books of islam. You must have been an avid reader,one who directs his affairs with true knowledge. You are a brother that assesses ways all the time.

1) On there is no compulsion in religion.
You have cited correct ahadith to butress your point. That is lovely from you. I am happy for that. But sir,you missed your target. Islam is a universal religion. There are benefits for believing totally in it. I know you're soft hearted,you would so much love your kid. Assuming your kid wants to jump down from a cliff,you don't want to spank him but you know he would be injured. He has free will to jump but he is inexperienced he could be hurt. So he's bent on jumping,as lovely as you are,won't you spank him? Youknow the spankingis very minimal to the consequence had you allowed him jump.
Allah wants everybody to serve Him because that's where success is,so the prophet came to bring the message to all without inhibition. However,Allah knows some will be guided,while some won't. So,there isn't compulsion to religion,you're rightly guided or not but you don't stand on the way on its spread. So.the ahadith means 'I have been commanded to fight until the islam reaches everybody'. In some verses,Allah says'you are just a warner'meaning to accept isn't yours.

2) On Allah's words.
I have said that before. His words doesn't change. Abrogation comes only in laws.laws are part of his revealation. I know you are well read.you can bring examples of such. I know you attended higher colleges,why weren't you given all the knowledge once? Why the sequence. Obviously you know the answer. The more you mature the more the knowledge. With theexpansion,Allah calibrate them with laws that would make it easier for them to serve Him and be of help to themselves.

3) On Abraham and Ismaheel.
If you're conversant with history of christianity,you wll agree with me that Abraham didn't live in Mecca neither did he born Ismaheel inMecca where Ka'aba is. As a command from his Lord,he came to Mecca,after he had sent Hagar and her son away on his Lord directives. Abraham and Ismaheel just laid and raised the foundation. None of them was a prophet or messenger to the arabs.
Old testament wasgiven to Jews,New testament to xtians,the book didn't get to them because Moses was basically sent to Jews to liberate them and to know there is one God just Jesus to Xtians. So,the arabs then were idolaters. They had hundreds of idols they worship. Why,the gospels didn't have influence on them.you can do your research.

On Jews,Xtians and others

There is a name that may interest youthat Qur'an is called. Al-Furqan,meaning one that tells difference. The traditional jews believe in oneness of God but later the take their loyalty to their priests and they began to claim their priests as gods. Quran clearly state that.
Likewise,xtianity started on monotheism before abracadbra ofcrusade war brings the trinity. Yet,Quran tells us that the original New Testament tells of oneness of God. So,on that note,we see them as brothers in faith moreso they have revealations.

I appreciate this exercise youbrought. How I wish I could hug but I do it here inmy heart. I see this as enlightening to those who seek knowledge. I hope people find guidance here.
God bless you sir,you remain precious!

This is not different from your earlier explanations, so the disagreement remains.

Anyway, it is nice talking to you and I pray the only true God will reveal himself to you (Amen).
Re: Muslims, Why Did You Fail To Probe This? by decisive(m): 11:04am On Apr 22, 2015
This is not different from your earlier explanations, so the disagreement remains.
Anyway, it is nice talking to you and I pray the only true God will reveal himself to you (Amen).

Now I see your eyes is opened. Dear,don't you think opening your mind also matters? Two is better than one,sir.

1 Like 1 Share

Re: Muslims, Why Did You Fail To Probe This? by malvisguy212: 10:16pm On Jun 22, 2015
truthman2012:
Muslims are expected to probe into why Allah did not maintain his words in the quran. For so many verses of the quran there are the reverses, making the book very unreliable. Why would God not keep to his words? Why did he reverse his statement in order too suit particular situations? How would he say both man and jinns are incapable of producing a book like the quran with its inconsistencies? Why did he say there is no discrepancy in the book? All these questions should put muslims in the notice the need for proper probing of Allah’s book – quran

The reverses of the words of allah are in red:

There is no compulsion in Allah’s Religion

[Quran 2:256] Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trust-worthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

[Quran 8:39] And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world ]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.” (Quran 8:39)

(Sahih Muslim 1:33) The Messenger of Allah said: "I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay zakat."

(Bukhari 2:24)."Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah


The words of Allah is not subject to change

[Quran 6:115] Perfected is the Word of thy Lord in truth and justice. There is naught (nothing) that can change His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.

[Quran 2:106] Nothing of our revelation (even a single verse) do we abrogate or cause be forgotten, but we bring (in place) one better or the like thereof. Knowest thou not that Allah is Able to do all things? Here allah changes his words by replacement after saying his words cannot change.

Abraham and Ishmael were in Mecca and built Kaaba

[Quran 2:127] And when Abraham and Ishmael were raising the foundations of the House, (Abraham prayed): Our Lord! Accept from us (this duty). Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Hearer, the Knower.

[Quran 34:44 YusufAli] But We had not given them Books which they could study, nor sent messengers to them before thee as Warners. "Nor sent messengers to them before Muhammad as Warners" after he had said Abraham and Ishmael were there as messengers and built Kaaba.

Christianity, Sabaeanism and Islam are all acceptable to Allah

[Quran 2:62] Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

[Quran 3:85] If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).

[Quran 9:17] It is not for such as join gods with Allah, to visit or maintain the mosques of Allah while they witness against their own souls to infidelity. The works of such bear no fruit: In Fire shall they dwell.


All of Allah’s Messengers are equal

[Q uran 2:285] The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in Allah, His angels, His books, and His messengers. "We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His messengers." And they say: "We hear, and we obey: (We seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys."

[Quran 2:253] We have made some of these messengers to excel the others among them are they to whom Allah spoke, and some of them He exalted by (many degrees of) rank; and We gave clear miracles to Isa son of Marium, and strengthened him with the holy spirit. And if Allah had pleased, those after them would not have fought one with another after clear arguments had come to them, but they disagreed; so there were some of them who believed and others who denied; and if Allah had pleased they would not have fought one with another, but Allah brings about what He intends.

How to treat infidels

[Quran 9:29]Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel them-selves subdued.

[Quran 45:14] Tell those who believe,to forgive[/b]those who do not look forward to the Days of Allah: It is for Him to re-compense (for good or ill) each People according to what they have earned.

[b]Do the Jews love or hate each other?


[Quran 5:51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends;they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

[Quran 5:64] And the Jews say: The hand of Allah is tied up! Their hands shall be shackled and they shall be cursed for what they say. Nay, both His hands are spread out, He expends as He pleases; and what has been revealed to you from your Lord will certainly make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief;and We have put enmity and hatred among them till the day of resurrection[/b]whenever they kindle a fire for war Allah puts it out, and they strive to make mischief in the land; and Allah does not love the mischief-makers.

[b]Muslims cannot marry non-muslim women


[Quran 2:221]Do not marry unbelieving women (idolaters),until they believe: A slave woman who believes is better than an unbelieving woman, even though she allures you. Nor marry (your girls) to unbelievers until they believe: A man slave who believes is better than an unbeliever, even though he allures you. Unbelievers do (but) beckon you to the Fire. But Allah beckons by His Grace to the Garden (of bliss) and forgiveness, and makes His Signs clear to mankind: That they may celebrate His praise.

[Quran 5:5] This day (all) the good things are allowed to you; and the food of those who have been given the Book is lawful for you and your food is lawful for them; and the chaste from among the believing women[b]and the chaste from among those who have been given the Book be-fore you (are lawful for you);[/b]when you have given them their dowries, taking (them) in marriage, not fornicating nor taking them for paramours in secret; and whoever denies faith, his work indeed is of no account, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.

Quran was sent to the Arabs

[Quran 41:44] Had We sent this as a Qur'an (in the language) other than Arabic, they would have said: "Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a Book) not in Arabic and (a Messenger an Arab?" Say: "It is a Guide and a Healing to those who believe; and for those who believe not, there is a deafness in their ears, and it is blindness in their (eyes): They are (as it were) being called from a place far distant!"

[Qurani 4:174] O mankind! verily there hath come to you a convincing proof from your Lord: For We have sent unto you a light (that is) manifest

Muslims probe and let's have your findings.




Re: Muslims, Why Did You Fail To Probe This? by Rilwayne001: 9:23am On Jun 26, 2015
decisive:
This is not different from your earlier explanations, so the disagreement remains.
Anyway, it is nice talking to you and I pray the only true God will reveal himself to you (Amen).

Now I see your eyes is opened. Dear,don't you think opening your mind also matters? Two is better than one,sir.

Jazakumullahu Kairan.

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