AlBaqir:


# And anyone wey original husband or wife caught will see beating of the century or get killed.

# On a more serious note, do you know how the process of stoning to death is usually carried out? A film titled "stoning of suraya" captured it. Its horrible and terrifying. The accused will be buried halfway to his/her waist, his/her hands will be bind and people will be furious stoning him/her until the last breathe. What a criminally punishment.

# Today, Iran, Jordan, Kuwait, Qatar, United Arab Emirates and some other Muslim's countries have replaced "stoning" with imprisonment and some other form of punishment. The last case I read of, in either Qatar or Jordan, the woman was sentenced to imprisonment. Prison reformed her to the extent that she was released as Hafiz al-Qur'an. Indeed, Allah's door for repentance is widely OPEN.

FriendNG:



The number of wittiness that they must see the facts in action made it so. If 4 people give witness and the 5 deny it that is all.


So how then can 5 pious people at same time witness such act? It is a deterrent.

AlBaqir:


Wallahi its hilarious to me. Obviously, Mr sino seem not to know what to copy-paste sometimes or he's very lazy to read and pinpoint the dangers some authors will create for him in the long run. Remember he once accused me of using derogatory term on Umar (in my thread about Umar's contributions in Battle) yet on that same thread he copy-pasted an author that used a more derogatory terms for Umar while defending him.

AlBaqir:


# So, the sheik did not believe in those ahadith in sahih Bukhari (Umar's narration), and Abu Dawud (Aisha's narration)?!

# Obviously, the sheik knew the danger in believing those ahadith therefore made a fastest run by rejecting them. Poor him.

# Empiree, se una see world's eyes (oju aye)?

sino:


"Did Caliph Umar actually think some verse was missing?

Most certainly Caliph Umar knew well and understood that the particular words 'When a married man or woman commit adultery, stone them (to death)'are not meant to be the part of the actual text of the Holy Quran. This is clear from another tradition in which he said:

"Had it not been that people would say Umar has made an addition to the Book of Allah, I would have written it on the margin of the Quran."(Musnad Ahmad Hadith 151. Ahmad Shakir classified it as Sahih)

And according to the wording in Sunan Nasai Al-Kubra Hadith 7151 , he said 'I would have written and appended it to the Quran.'

Now idea of writing at the margin of the Quran or adding as an appendix clearly shows that he only meant to add it as side note or commentary to the Quran to tell the future generations explicitly about the punishment of stoning whom he feared rejecting this commandment and going astray.

The above detail makes it absolutely clear that never was there any verse about stoning a part of the Quranic text."


Your constant attack on my presentations (which are duly referenced) only shows your desperation, and your inadequacies with respect to knowledge and the means to acquiring knowledge. It is a shame you couldn’t go to the links to read and understand the view of the author/the Sheikh, it is then even worse and pathetic that you couldn’t comprehend the excerpts I had presented here (as well as the reason for presenting it here).

I cannot help your deliberate misrepresentation and mistranslation of hadiths, you pick a hadith at random and form opinions without recourse to other narrations with same theme, which is never the way of people of knowledge.

I’ll advise you again, READ!

AlBaqir:


# Please where's the defense of Umar in the above copy-paste on his clear statement about "verse of stoning"?

# Please stop copy-pasting and be independent of your thinking for once.

sino:


Oga Ade! Umar's (RA) statement in my post already cleared the air. If Umar (ra) himself would rather not write on the margins or like a footnote, then it was not meant to be part of the Qur'anic text. Umar (ra) said it was a revelation, and they memorized it, He didn't say it was part of the Qur'an, or is the Qur'an the only revelation to the Prophet (SAW)?! The narration which you are pointing to had already been analysed, go to the link and read!

AlBaqir:


Now I see how confused you are. He yah. Read the words of your lord Umar once again:


# Imam Bukhari documents:

Ibn Abbas reported Umar ibn al-Khattab to have made the following long sermon:


"...Allah sent Muhammad with the Truth and revealed the Holy Book to him, and among what Allah revealed, was the VERSE OF THE RAJAM (the stoning of married person (male & female) who commits illegal sexual intercourse, and we did recite this Verse and understood and memorized it. Allah's Messenger (s) did carry out the punishment of stoning and so did we after him. I am afraid that after a long time has passed, somebody will say, 'By Allah, we do not find the Verse of the Rajam in Allah's Book,' and thus they will go astray by leaving an obligation which Allah has revealed. And the punishment of the Rajam is to be inflicted to any married person (male & female), who commits illegal sexual intercourse, if the required evidence is available or there is conception or confession...

Reference  : Sahih al-Bukhari 6830 
In-book reference  : Book 86, Hadith 57 
USC-MSA web (English) reference  : Vol. 8, Book 82, Hadith 817 

http://sunnah.com/bukhari/86

* Are you kidding me Mr sino? This is a plain blue black, and your desperation can never make it yellow.

AlBaqir:


# Aishah, prior to Umar had said the same thing:

Imam ibn Majah documents:

It was narrated that 'Aishah said:

“ The Verse of stoning and of breastfeeding an adult ten times was revealed, and the paper was with me under my pillow. When the Messenger of Allah died, we were preoccupied with his death, and a tame sheep came in and ate it.” 


# What else do you need omokunrin yi? Agidi ko, wallahi. This issue is a no defense issue.

sino:


You are not different from the ignoramus who picks an ayah in the Qur'an about killing the disbelievers, and starts shouting all over the place that Muslims are terrorists and the Qur'an confirms it, Allah had instructed them to kill non-Muslims. One other similarity again is that, no matter how you want to help their self-inflicted ignorance, they remain stubborn and obnoxious...

I do not know where you now know better than Umar (ra) himself, when he (ra) had already explained that the verse of stoning was never part of the Qur'an to start with...Let me help with relevant narrations:

"It is reported in a narration from Kathir bin Salt that: Zaid (b. Thabit) said: 'I heard the Messenger of Allah say, 'When a married man or woman commit adultery stone them both (to death)', (hearing this) Amr said,
'When this was revealed I came to Prophet and asked if I could write it, he (the Prophet) disliked it.' (Mustadrik Al-Hakim, Hadith 8184. Hakim called it Sahih. al-Dhahbi agreed with him)

About this 'verse' Kathir bin Salt says that he, Zaid bin Thabit and Marwan bin Hakam were discussing as to why it is not written in the Quranic manuscript and Umar bin Khattab was present with them and listening to their discussion he said he knew it better then them and told them that he came to Messenger of Allah and said:

"'O Messenger of Allah, let the verse about stoning be written for me.' He (the Prophet) said, 'I can't do this.'" (Sunan Al-Kubra Baihiqi 8/211 & Sunan Al-Kubra Nasai Hadith 7148. Albani (in Sahiha 6/412) said Baihiqi pointed to its authenticity)"

"Umar (ra) said:

"Had it not been that people would say Umar has made an addition to the Book of Allah, I would have written it on the margin of the Quran."(Musnad Ahmad Hadith 151. Ahmad Shakir classified it as Sahih)

And according to the wording in Sunan Nasai Al-Kubra Hadith 7151 , he said 'I would have written and appended it to the Quran.' "

Now the above narrations put everything into proper perspective, Umar (ra) never claimed the verse of stoning was part of the Qur'an at any given time, he himself wouldn't even try to add it as a footnote or appendix. Just as he feared, and how the Jews and Christians abandoned it, although it was A VERSE REVEALED IN THE TORAH, which we Muslims also believe to be a revelation, some Muslims are also criticizing it and running away from it, saying it is not in the Qur'an!

Allah (SWT) says in the Qur'an about the Prophet (SAW), "he does not speak out of desire, but a revelation that is revealed". So if stoning of the adulterous is established from the Prophet (SAW), and you do not have any concrete evidence that proves otherwise, other than your independent thinking and desire, then you should be asking yourself if you are indeed a believer in the Prophet (SAW) and the message of Islam....

sino:

I do not know where you now know better than Umar (ra) himself, when he (ra) had already explained that the verse of stoning was never part of the Qur'an to start with...Let me help with relevant narrations:

"It is reported in a narration from Kathir bin Salt that: Zaid (b. Thabit) said: 'I heard the Messenger of Allah say, 'When a married man or woman commit adultery stone them both (to death)', (hearing this) Amr said,
'When this was revealed I came to Prophet and asked if I could write it, he (the Prophet) disliked it.' (Mustadrik Al-Hakim, Hadith 8184. Hakim called it Sahih. al-Dhahbi agreed with him)

About this 'verse' Kathir bin Salt says that he, Zaid bin Thabit and Marwan bin Hakam were discussing as to why it is not written in the Quranic manuscript and Umar bin Khattab was present with them and listening to their discussion he said he knew it better then them and told them that he came to Messenger of Allah and said:

"'O Messenger of Allah, let the verse about stoning be written for me.' He (the Prophet) said, 'I can't do this.'" (Sunan Al-Kubra Baihiqi 8/211 & Sunan Al-Kubra Nasai Hadith 7148. Albani (in Sahiha 6/412) said Baihiqi pointed to its authenticity)"

sino:


Authenticity of the narration:

Whenever we have a narration we ought to see whether it is authentic or not? The narration infact has some problems.
The particular chain given in Sunan Ibn Majah finds one of the narrators Muhammad bin Ishaq narrating it using the word عن ('an) which is rather an ambiguous way of narration and renders the narration weak when used by a narrator known for practicing Tadlis [practice of subtly missing a link] and Muhammad Ibn Ishaq is indeed such a narrator. Thus through particular chain of narration in Sunan Ibn Majah the narration is weak and unauthentic due the above mentioned defect though it has other issues as well as mentioned in the lines to follow. This is clarified by Shaykh Muhammad Taqi Usmani in Takmala Fath Al-Mulhim 1/69 pub. Darul Ahya Al-Turath Al-Arabi, Beirut.

ShaheedBinAliyu:
@ Empiree . .Hadith was corrupted no doubt. that is why there are scholars of hadith who studied the science of hadith and show the world WHAT IS SAHIH, DAIF, FAKE hadith. . THAT IS WHY WE HAVE SAHIH BUKHARI AND MUSLIM. get the most trusted book after quran and read. .get ur copy