italo:


Then you should prove it by telling us when religion was born by philosophy...

Who were the philosophers that existed before religion...

Show evidence of what you say.

I mentioned the Catholics who were instrumental in developing the scientific model...

I mentioned that the Church founded Europe's first universities...

I mention a few Catholics who pioneered various fields in Science...and there are many more...

I mentioned how the Church nurtured and sponsored Science...

johnydon22:

[b]Lol and you just showed you do not even know what Philosophy is... Calm down its not a fight, Church sponsoring science doesn't mean science was a product of the church, Islam also in a huge way affected the development of science this doesn't make science a product of islam. . . Scientific knowledge dates back to far more ancient civilizations like Egypt and Sumer.

Every answer in this world began with a question ( a question cannot be the product of an answer rather answers are products of questions)

Philosophy is as old as human reason deals with reason and proposes questions about reality that needs answers... (That is philosophy)

The products of this questions then branches off into cousins of answer approach, One of this answering approach is theology which holds the fabrics of religions itself.
It entails giving answers that can never be questioned...

And then another branch of approach is science which entails systematic and careful study, observations and reading of available datas on the subject before reaching a consensus logically on what it holds.

It all started as an approach to answer the question of existence and reality which is Philosophy. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_philosophy

You only think i am here to argue on the catholic influence on science? Lol, science dates as far as ancient egypt which gives us a bedrock to almost all the knowledge we possess now.... I have no interest in condemning the catholic church or arguing over its influence (Positive or negative ) on science.

A blatant example of philosophy birthing religions recorded in recent historical timelines are evident enough in the Like of Great philosophers likes Confucius and Buddha. .

Philosophy only of recent was separated from other disciplines of study and became a distinct discipline itself [/b]

italo:


1. Science in the modern sense - the scientific model - only came about in the middle ages.

2. Religion existed before Buddha and Confucius.

It was an example of how philosophical positions give rise to religions. Buddhism and Confucianism are all religions now

3. No proof that Philosophy existed before...or gave rise to Religion. you're only guessing.

johnydon22:
Lol. . .Bros scientific model is a scientific method not SCIENCE as a whole..
We know all know "Science as a word is a new add to lingual arena. . . When we speak of science we talk of science in general and that predates study that goes beyond the emergence of the name science...what the ancient knew as Natural Philosophy

Alchemy, Biology, Mathematics and all are all branches of science and they date back to ancient civilizations..
It was an example of how philosophical positions give rise to religions. Buddhism and Confucianism are all religions now
Again you do not even know what philosophy is, i refer you to the above post again

italo:


Bros, the Catholic Church practically invented science. It not only did that, it also sponsored and nurtured it. The Catholic Church also invented the University system in the middle ages.

Many of the great pioneers in many scientific areas were Catholics, even priests.

The Catholic Church founded Europe's first universities, producing scholars like Robert Grosseteste, Albert the Great, Roger Bacon and Thomas Aquinas, who helped establish scientific method. Fr Jean-Baptiste Lamarck (1744–1829) prefigured the theory of evolution with Lamarckism; Friar Gregor Mendel (1822–84) pioneered genetics and Fr Georges Lemaitre (1894-1966) proposed the Big Bang cosmological model.

Some of the great scientists you mentioned were Catholic.

In short, the Catholic Church built The Western civilization you now value.

I just chose to illuminate your mind because I know that you spoke out of ignorance.

"My people perish for lack of knowledge!"

italo:


I speak of Science in the modern sense, which essentially refers to the Scientific model. Do I have to say it with a megaphone?

You earlier said "Philosophy is the birth parent of both religion and science.." Now you're singling out a few religions. You're flip-flopping. Is philosophy the birth parent of religion...or some religions?

You cannot shown that Philosophy existed before religion. It's just that simple.

Lets take you down historical timeline...

The first organized religion in history is Sangam Hinduism 9831BC and hinduism is a product of varying philosophical teachings and texts.

" Although Hinduism contains different [size=16]philosophies,[/size] it is united
by shared concepts, same textual resources, common ritual techniques,
cosmology and pilgrimage to sacred sites. " https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism

Again philosophy in general deals with questions on existence and reality and from this questions arose answers such as "God did it" from whence religion is rooted.

It actually is saddening to me that such a young man do not know what philosophy in general means.

Now that you have been shown that the first religion ever is a product of different philosophies, lets hope you won't still ask if philosophy predates religion..

Zedric:


Dude, what rubbish is this? That catholic church helped science? Catholic Church started university? Read a book bro. The fact that you can mention few scientists that were Catholic doesn't mean they were the pioneers if science. Science in the beginning was a sin to the church, do you know the number of atheist scientists we have? Muslim scientists? Indian scientists? I could go on and list names but that won't help you, you are just a click away from Google.

Do you know where the 1st university was established? Somewhere catholic churches had no reach. You listed some "new-age" scientists (between the 1600s and the 1900s), now I ask you, sir, was that when the scientific process started? The age if Galileo, The Greek scholars, The Egyptian scholars, the Sumerian scholars, the Babylonian scholars, The Arabs should all be wiped away? Read a book, sir, read a book

johnydon22:
Again Scientific Model is a scientific method not science in general, you have to first know the difference between Science in general and scientific methods. . . What we are talking about is SCIENCE not scientific methods ..

This is like saying Mathematics is a product of Pythagoras because he developed the Pythagoras theorem (tho borrowed from Egyptians) Honestly learn first before arguing, because this is very disgracing

Lets take you down historical timeline...

The first organized religion in history is Sangam Hinduism 9831BC and hinduism is a product of varying philosophical teachings and texts.

" Although Hinduism contains different [size=16]philosophies,[/size] it is united
by shared concepts, same textual resources, common ritual techniques,
cosmology and pilgrimage to sacred sites. " https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism

Again philosophy in general deals with questions on existence and reality and from this questions arose answers such as "God did it" from whence religion is rooted.

It actually is saddening to me that such a young man do not know what philosophy in general means.

Now that you have been shown that the first religion ever is a product of different philosophies, lets hope you won't still ask if philosophy predates religion..

italo:


In modern usage "science" most often refers to a way of pursuing knowledge, not only the knowledge itself. In the 17th and 18th centuries scientists increasingly sought to formulate knowledge in terms of laws of nature. Over the course of the 19th century, the word "[size=20]science" became increasingly associated with the scientific method itself, as a disciplined way to study the natural world, including physics, chemistry, geology and biology[/size]. It is in the 19th century also that the term scientist began to be applied to those who sought knowledge and understanding of nature.[4]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science

I hope that can help you understand the "Science" I speak about...

...not that of Aristotle that didn't entail observation, verification, experimentation.

That isn't the Science we practise today.

italo:


It's you who needs to read.

Read about Science in the modern sense of the word which essentially refers to the Scientific Method.

This was practically invented by the Church in the middle ages. The Arabs, Greeks, Summerians, Babylonians didn't practise this.

Read about the Scientific Method and how it was brought about by Roger Bacon, a Catholic Franciscan Friar.

Yes...the Catholic Church started the modern university system, giving Europe its first universities in the middle ages.

At no time was science a sin. You're too ignorant.

johnydon22:

Seriously you need to stop this your childish argument and face reality.

Natural philosophy as science was called during the ancient times dates back to very ancient civilizations.
Scientific disciplines that you now study Biology, physics, alchemy, astrology and so on all started during that ancient ages.

[b]Scientific method doesn't equate SCIENCE in general for crying out loud.

About churches starting universities, Aristotle started his Academy Centuries before the church came into play, The Egyptian mystery school has been around thousands of years even before the greek society emerged.

So please stop this your blatant show of chronic naivete. [/b]