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| Re: Questions Muslims Have Been Avoiding by truthman2012(m): 10:31am On Aug 05, 2015 |
malvisguy212: Dont mind them bro. Rilwayne001 aka fake 'truthman2013' has been searching for defence since yesterday morning (more than 24 hrs ago), he has not found any and he cannot find because it is not available. How does he want to defend glaring lies unless he is preparing more lies for defence? Fake 'truthman'! 1 Like |
| Re: Questions Muslims Have Been Avoiding by truthman2013: 11:11am On Aug 05, 2015 |
truthman2012: Have you ever bothered to look at the inconsistency in the bible? Allah clearly stated that his words are not subject to change. [Quran 10:64 YusufAli] For them are glad tidings, in the life of the present and in the Hereafter; NO CHANGE CAN THERE BE IN THE WORDS OF ALLAH. This is indeed the supreme felicity. What you refused to grasb from this beautiful verse is that - it is a promise made to the believers i.e. Nothing can change is promise for us. Ibn katheer says: "meaning, this promise doesn't change or breach or fall short.It is decreed and firm, and going to happen undoubtedly." It's evident in the Qur'an that the call of all previous Prophets and Messengers involved 3 principles that cannot be changed: 1) To know your Lord 2) The path that will lead to His mercy 3) What you will receive i.e reward, mercy, Jannah etc. Although the religion brought by the Messengers wa one i.e. the believe in God almighty and submission to His will, the laws of the Prophets differed from one another. "...To each among you, We have prescribed a law and a clear way..." [Qur'an 5: 48] The basic message and core islamic creed and fundementals remain the same. The divinely revealed books all come from one source see Qur'an 3: 1-4) and were all revealed for one purpose and with one aim. They were revealed to show the way for mankind to live on this earth, to lead them by means fo teachings, directions and guidance. But he (Allah) defied his own words by saying: …Thats according to your devilish interpretation and not the intended message. ''When We SUBSTITUTE one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not [Quran 16:101 YusufAli]. … The Arabic word mentioned is ayat which means ‘signs’ or ‘verses’ and which can also mean ‘revelations’.This verse of the Qur’an can be interpreted in two different ways: a. The revelations that are abrogated are those revelations that were revealed before the Qur’an, for example the Torah, the Zaboor and the Injeel. Here Allah says that He does not cause the previous revelations to be forgotten but He substitutes them with something better or similar, indicating that the Torah, the Zaboor and the Injeel were substituted by the Qur’an. (16:101)- “When we replace a message with another and God knows best what He reveals, they say you have made it up. Yet most of them do not know” The people at that time accussed Muhammad of forgery having discovered the INCONSTITENCIES in the if you look at the verses before 16:101 you can see God talking about those who break the covenant with God and those who sell it for a miserable price, so it is quite clear the Quran is referring to those people who had previous revelation, thus making “they” the Jews and Christians to whom the Gospel and Torah were given...Thus we understand when God says; Quran 2:106 None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things? AnQuran16:101 that the verse was reffering to the Jews and christians distotted books. Questions: Why did allah defy his own words by changing his revelations, SUBSTITUTING one for another?Allah (swt) didn't defy his words. You are the one deluded about it. Why happened to the revelations being changed, were there mistakes? There were no mistakes, rather similar and better revelations were revealed. Since allah could not keep his own words, how can you trust his promises? You are deluded about his words. You are deaf and dumb to the truth. You can't neithet see nor hear and your mind at the same time is blind to the truth. You err, not knowing his words. …THE MUSLIMS' CALL TO WAR. It is the usual defence of the muslims that islamic wars are for SELF-DEFENCE or REPRISAL. And so, biblical call to war are for what exactly  Can the same be said for the following islamic statements? YES Qur'an (3:83) - "Are they seeking UNWILLINGLY.....The basic principle characterizing the universe, in other words the religion of the universe and of every part of it, is Islam; insofar as the universe is in a state of total obedience and service to the Will of God. Here people are asked if they would follow a way of life different from Islam though they are part of the universe which is characterized by submission to God (islam). This is not about war as you have want us to understand. By compulsion means the muslims have to fight the unbelievers to submit. This is your devilish interpretation and not the intended message been passed across. Then, it is untrue that every soul has submitted to allah on the earth as the quran asserts. A larger number of the world population are non-muslims. Why is he telling an obvious lie. refer back to my explanation up there. Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness." This is clearly a case of first attack. Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." This has already been addressed on one of your thread. Surah 9, Verse 13: Will you not fight a people who have violated their oaths (pagans of Makkah) and intended to expel the Messenger, while they did attack you first? Do you fear them? Allah has more right that you should fear Him, if you are believers. ^^ This verse makes us understand clearly the context behind this surah. i.e the pagans of mecca after breaking their oaths sought to expel the Prophet (SAw) out of mecca. So they attacked the muslims first. LETS NOW TURN TO THE HISTORICAL CONTEXT; The series of events that have been discussed in this Surah took place after the Peace Treaty of Hudaibiyah. By that time, one-third of Arabia had come under the sway of Islam which had established itself as a powerful, well organized and civilized Islamic State. This Treaty afforded further opportunities to Islam to spread its influence in the comparatively peaceful atmosphere created by it. After this Treaty, two events took place, which led to very important results: Conquest of Arabia The first was the Conquest of Arabia. The Holy Prophet was able to send missions among different clans for the propagation of Islam. The result was that during the short period of two years, it became such a great power that it made the old order of ignorance' feel helpless before it. So much so that the zealous elements from among the Quraish were so exasperated that they broke the Treaty in order to encounter Islam in a decisive combat. But the Holy Prophet took prompt action after the breach so as not to allow them any opportunity to gather enough force for this. He made a sudden invasion on Makkah in the month of Ramadan in A. H. 8 and conquered it. Though this conquest broke the backbone of the order of ignorance, it made still another attack on Islam in the battle-field of Hunain, which proved to be its death-knell. The clans of Hawazin Thaqif, Naur, Jushm and others gathered their entire forces in the battle field in order to crush the reformative Revolution, but they utterly failed in their evil designs. The defeat of 'ignorance' at Hunain paved the way for making the whole of Arabia the 'Abode of Islam' (Dar-ul-Islam ). The result was that hardly a year had Passed after the Battle of Hunain, when the major portion of Arabia came within the fold of Islam and only a few upholders of the old order remained scattered over some corners of the country. The second event that contributed towards making Islam a formidable power was the Campaign of Tabuk, which was necessitated by the provocative activities of the Christians living within or near the boundaries of the Roman Empire to the north of Arabia. Accordingly, the Holy Prophet, with an army of thirty thousand marched boldly towards the Roman Empire but the Romans evaded the encounter. The result was that the power of the Holy Prophet and Islam increased manifold and deputations from all corners of Arabia began to wait upon him on his return from Tabuk in order to offer their allegiance to Islam and obedience to him. The Holy Quran has described this triumph in Surah An-Nasr: "When the succor of Allah came and victory was attained and you saw people entering the fold of Islam in large numbers... Campaign to Tabuk The Campaign to Tabuk was the result of conflict with the Roman Empire, that had started even before the conquest of Makkah. One of the missions sent after the Treaty of Hudaibiyah to different parts of Arabia visited the clans which lived in the northern areas adjacent to Syria. The majority of these people were Christians, who were under the influence of the Roman Empire. Contrary to all the principles of the commonly accepted international law, they killed fifteen members of the delegation near a place known as Zat-u-Talah (or Zat-i- Itlah). Only Ka'ab bin Umair Ghifari, the head of the delegation, succeeded in escaping and reporting the sad incident. Besides this, Shurahbll bin Amr, the Christian governor of Busra, who was directly under the Roman Caesar, had also put to death Haritli bin Umair, the ambassador of the Holy Prophet, who had been sent to him on a similar minion. These events convinced the Holy Prophet that a strong action should be taken in order to make the territory adjacent to the Roman Empire safe and secure for the Muslims. Accordingly, in the month of Jamadi-ul-Ula A. H. 8, he sent an army of three thousand towards the Syrian border. When this army reached near Ma'an, the Muslims learned that Shurahbil was marching with an army of one hundred thousand to fight-with them and that the Caesar, who himself was at Hims, had sent another army consisting of one hundred thousand soldiers under his brother Theodore. But in spite of such fearful news, the brave small band of the Muslims marched on fearlessly and encountered the big army of Shurahbil at M'utah. And the result of the encounter in which the Muslims were fighting against fearful odds (the ratio of the two armies was 1:33), as very favorable, for the enemy utterly failed to defeat them. This proved very helpful for the propagation of Islam. As a result, those Arabs who were living in a state of semi independence in Syria and near Syria and the clans of Najd near Iraq, who were under the influence of the Iranian Empire, turned towards Islam and embraced it in thousands. For example, the people of Bani Sulaim (whose chief was Abbas bin Mirdas Sulaimi), Ashja'a, Ghatafan, Zubyan, Fazarah, etc., came into the fold of Islam at the same time. Above all, Farvah bin 'Amral Juzami, who was the commander of the Arab armies of the Roman Empire, embraced Islam during that time, and underwent the trial of his Faith in a way that filled the whole territory with wonder. When the Caesar came to know that Farvah had embraced Islam, he ordered that he should be arrested and brought to his court. Then the Caesar said to him, "You will have to choose one of the two things. Either give up your Islam and win your liberty and your former rank, or remain a Muslim and face death." He calmly chose Islam and sacrificed his life in the way of the Truth. No wonder that such events as these made the Caesar realize the nature of the danger that was threatening his Empire from Arabia. Accordingly, in 9 A.H. he began to make military preparations to avenge the insult he had suffered at M'utah. The Ghassanid and other Arab chiefs also began to muster armies under him. When the Holy Prophet, who always kept himself well- informed even of the minutest things that could affect the Islamic Movement favorably or adversely, came to know of these preparations, he at once under- stood their meaning. Therefore, without the least hesitation he decided to fight against the great power of the Caesar. He knew that the show of the slightest weakness would result in the utter failure of the Movement which was facing three great dangers at that time. First the dying power of 'ignorance' that had almost been crushed in the battle-field of Hunain might revive again. Secondly, the Hypocrites of Al: Madinah, who were always on the look-out for such an opportunity, might make full use of this to do the greatest possible harm to it. For they had already made preparations for this and had, through a monk called Abu Amir, sent secret messages of their evil designs to the Christian king of Ghassan and the Caesar himself. Besides this, they had also built a mosque near Al-Madinah for holding secret meetings for this purpose. The third danger was of an attack by the Caesar himself, who had already defeated Iran, the other great power of that period, and filled with awe the adjacent territories. It is obvious that if all these three elements had been given an opportunity of taking a concerted action against the Muslims, Islam would have lost the fight it had almost won. That is why in this case the Holy Prophet made an open declaration for making preparations for the Campaign against the Roman Empire, which was one of the two greatest empires of the world of that period. The declaration was made though all the apparent circumstances were against such a decision: for there was famine in the country and the long awaited crops were about to ripen: the burning heat of the scorching summer season of Arabia was at, its height and there was not enough money for preparations in general, and for equipment and conveyance in particular. But in spite of these handicaps, when the Messenger of Allah realized the urgency of the occasion, he took this step which was to decide whether the Mission of the Truth was going to survive or perish. The very fact that he made an open declaration for making preparations for such a campaign to Syria against the Roman Empire showed how important it was, for this was contrary to his previous practice. Usually he took every precaution not to reveal beforehand the direction to which he was going nor the name of the enemy whom he was going to attack; nay, he did not move out of Al-Madinah even in the direction of the campaign. All the parties in Arabia fully realized the grave consequences of this critical decision. The remnants of the lovers of the old order of 'ignorance' were anxiously waiting for the result of the Campaign, for they had pinned all their hopes on the defeat of Islam by the Romans. The 'hypocrites' also considered it to be their last chance of crushing the power of Islam by internal rebellion, if the Muslims suffered a defeat in Syria. They had, therefore, made full use of the Mosque built by them for hatching plots and had employed all their devices to render the Campaign a failure. On the other side, the true Believers also realized fully that the fate of the Movement for which they had been exerting their utmost for the last 22 years was now hanging in the balance. If they showed courage on that critical occasion, the doors of the whole outer world would be thrown open for the Movement to spread. But if they showed weakness or cowardice, then all the work they had done in Arabia would -end in smoke. Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'. And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally." The statements are exclusive and biding on Prophet alone for some specific time and condition, as there were some Jews and Christians and hypocrites Muslims during his lifetime which, is clearly shown in the Quran. And this was proved as the Prophet pet his uncle Abu Talib with Islam till death but to no avail!. Aside where are we to put Q2: 256 when Allah says: “ There should be no compulsion in the religion. Surely right has become distinct from the wrong…”, and “Say O you disbelivers. I worship not that which you worship, nor worship you what I worship … for you your religion, and for me my religion” Q107: 1-6 . Why did the messenger not put chain on the disbelievers of his time like Abu-Lahab to accept Islam? When Allah says: “Verily you guide not whom you like but Allah guide whom He will and He knows best those who are the guided” Q28:56. All these have absolved the Prophet and Islam from the evils and misinterpretations of any Quranic verse or hadith narration and have vindicated the Muslims of their stand. Even plainbibletruth acknowledged this fact when he said: Even some of his very close friends and associates were Jews and Christians. His main secretary was said to be a Jew. . Then the question is, why didn't he kill them, since thats what you wanted us to believe up here ...truthman.. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Questions Muslims Have Been Avoiding by truthman2013: 11:20am On Aug 05, 2015 |
truthman2012: ...You don't make any iota of sense here man. I only came across this thread last night. You don't expect me to reply to it immediately when I am not ecen to explaine anything to you, when I know for sure that my explanation will definitely fall on your deaf ear. I only respond to this thread in expectation that you would come my to my thread where you ran away like a thief. I hope you would summon courage and come back. If not, why don't you just drop christianity since its lies are obvious. 1 Like |
| Re: Questions Muslims Have Been Avoiding by Nobody: 12:08pm On Aug 05, 2015 |
@Al taqquiya man despite the long epistle you wrote laced with insults, kitman and plagiarism you failed woefully to explain why allah contradicted himself and changed his word. In fact you admitted he changed his mind by saying he revealed a better revelation which still means he changed his mind thus making him a liar. 2 Likes |
| Re: Questions Muslims Have Been Avoiding by truthman2012(m): 12:45pm On Aug 05, 2015 |
Rilwayne001 aka fake truthman2013 You have eventually come up with some lies. You are welcome. Let me expose the lies in your self formulations: Have you ever bothered to look at the inconsistency in the bible? You lack good knowledge of the bible. Allah clearly stated that his words are not subject to change. [Quran 10:64 YusufAli] For them are glad tidings, in the life of the present and in the Hereafter; NO CHANGE CAN THERE BE IN THE WORDS OF Allah. This is indeed the supreme felicity. Your lie here is that the quran says allah's words and not his promise cannot change. Twistiing!!!!!!!!!!! Based on your your wrong assertions up there, why was he (allah)[b]substituting[/b]one revelation for another? You have no rebuttal on this point my friend. You just formulated something. No wonder it took you so long to speak at last. ''When We SUBSTITUTE one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not [Quran 16:101 YusufAli]. Pure lie. Where is it stated that it is the revelations before the quran, Torah and Gospel were changed or abrogated and substituted by the quran? This is your own idea. Show authentic proof. If the previous revelations have been abrogated and substituted by the quran, why did allah say the Gospel and Torah be used as in: How come they come unto the (i.e Muhammad) for judgment when they have the Torah, wherein Allah hath delivered judgment (for them)? Yet even after that they turn away. Such (folk) are not believers (Quran 5:43).Do you make use of what has been abrogated or changed? Let the People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed therein. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are evil-doers (Quran 5:47). Do you still make use of what has been changed or abrogated? Look for another lie my friend. Why happened to the revelations being changed, were there mistakes? Is allah all-knowing? Who gave him the better idea? And so, biblical call to war are for what exactly The bible did not call for religious war to convert the infidels. The wars were between a nation to another nation. It is not prescribed for us to continue. But for muslims, wars are prescribed for them to convert people by force like boko haram, isil and other islamic jihadists. I learned that the head of isil holds phd in islamic studies. He must know better than you for doing what he is doing. Qur'an (3:83) - "Are they seeking Lie! The religion of the universe and of every part of it is not islam. The word islam is a deceptive word designed by satan to include every believer in God. Everybody in the universe is not a muslim, hence the fighting the unbelievers by muslims. Not everybody in the world submits to God, some don't even believe God exists. Even though muslims worship satan in ignorance, there are people whose religion is Satan Worship, the satanists. Do those ones too submit to your allah? Then, it is untrue that every soul has submitted to Allah on the earth as the quran asserts. A larger number of the world population are non-muslims. Why is he telling an obvious lie. Allah lies here. Not everybody submits to him. There are people who don't believe he exists, talkless of submitting to him. Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness." This is clearly a case of first attack. Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." Islamic war is not against pagans of Mecca alone. Both the Jews are Christians were also killed till now. Don't hide under any treaty or oath made by pagans. [Quran3:151] Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah (the Christians), for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire: And evil is the home of the wrong-doers! Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'. And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally." Cover your face with your two hands for this lie. Was Muhammad alone in the fight? What about his other soldiers? Islam is full of lies, inconsistencies and hypocrisy. A verse says "let there be no compulsion in religion" another says "fight the people of the book, who forbid not what allah has forbidden". This is another clear case of allah changing his words I am talking about. My friend, as you can see for yourself that you have refuted nothing. You only put some lies up to erase the fact that the muslims are avoiding the questions. Questions remain unanswered yet. 3 Likes |
| Re: Questions Muslims Have Been Avoiding by Nobody: 1:29pm On Aug 05, 2015 |
@Al TaqquiyaMan2013 The fact that you had to tell so many lies to defend your god is clear evidence that within you, you know your allah is a liar and therefore a fraud.  3 Likes |
| Re: Questions Muslims Have Been Avoiding by truthman2012(m): 2:38pm On Aug 05, 2015 |
Jagoon: You see bro., these muslims have no conscience at all. Nothing rebukes them when they are lying like their allah. Since their god is lying, what does one expects from his slaves? Like god like slaves. 1 Like |
| Re: Questions Muslims Have Been Avoiding by truthman2013: 3:45pm On Aug 05, 2015 |
truthman2012: I already said it that you are deaf dumb and blind. I have done my best in making you understand even though I that know you would remain stiffnecked. Let me expose the lies in your self formulations: hmm..really? You lack good knowledge of the bible. Absolute bulshhit...You cant continue hiding behind this to escape the absurdities in the bible. Do you think you have knowledge? Its a capital NO. Your lie here is that the quran says allah's words and not his promise cannot change. Twistiing!!!!!!!!!!! The problem with people like you is that you think you know, when actually you know nothing.. I already told you to put the context into consideration and see if my explanation fits in or not. Surah Yunus, Verse 63: Those who believe and (constantly) guard against evil;-10:64 For them are good tidings in the worldly life and in the Hereafter. No change is there in the word of Allah . That is what is the great attainment. The green parts has already butrressed my explanation. i.e. Allah promise to us here (Jannah) cannot be changed he does not change his promise or go back on his words. I have done my best explaining this to you. I can't force you to accept the truth. Based on your your wrong assertions up there, why was he (allah)]substituting]one revelation for another? ..you have been told that Although the religion brought by the Messengers wa one i.e. the believe in God almighty and submission to His will. the laws of the Prophets differed from one another. "...To each among you, We have prescribed a law and a clear way..." [Qur'an 5: 48] To move us closer to him, similar and better revelations were revealed. … You have no rebuttal on this point my friend. I already refuted it. I don't care if your brain can't decipher it. What would I have expected before? That you would agree with me? I wasnt expecting that,I already jnow you are a gainsayer. Just doing this for reasonable people that may be reading this thread. You just formulated something. I provided Ibn kathir to support my explaination and I also pointed to the context of the Quran to support my explanation. I formulated nothing. You can continue swimming in your delusion. No wonder it took you so long to speak at last. If you are jobless, I am not. If you are depending on pension, I am not, I am in my very early 20s, I still have a lot of things to do with my life. Therefore, you shouldnt expect to see me online always - replying a stiffnicked gainsayees for that matter. You can spend your entire life on nairaland. Who cares Pure lie. Where is it stated that it is the revelations before the quran, Torah and Gospel were changed or abrogated and substituted by the quran? Is the Torah attributed to Moses really written by Moses? Is the Gospel attributed to Jesus written by Jesus? Please answer these^ questions if you are truthful to yourself. This is your own idea. Show authentic proof. If the previous revelations have been abrogated and substituted by the quran, why did allah say the Gospel and Torah be used as in: How come they come unto the (i.e Muhammad) for judgment when they have the Torah, wherein Allah hath delivered judgment (for them)? Yet even after that they turn away. Such (folk) are not believers (Quran 5:43).Do you make use of what has been abrogated or changed? Let the People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed therein. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are evil-doers (Quran 5:47). Do you still make use of what has been changed or abrogated? Look for another lie my friend. [color=red] We believe that the original Torah and Gospel given to Moses and Jesus respectively, peace be upon them were divinely inspired and perfect, what we have today of these Scriptures is not the same as the original revelation. Indeed when we examine the modern Torah and Gospels in detail we find that there are numerous issues in the texts. One of the names of the Qur’an is Al Furqan, meaning “the Criterion between truth and falsehood”. So the Qur’an not only confirms the Scriptures that came before it, but also corrects the mistakes that have entered them: “And We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth…” [Chapter 5, verse 48] So whenever the Quran refers to it, you should know that it is refering to their original form. But you may ask why refer to a book that is not in existence. Then it would be a case of an unserious student, that disregarded the lecture he received. Then later asking question that has already been answered in the lecture given to him, even though he deliberately asked it to mock the teacher. Then the teacher would ask him to either join the new student or refer back to the lecture he received (that's if he still could remember it). You dig? Is allah all-knowing? Who gave him the better idea?There is something we call mercy. He is able to show a rejected servant mercy. Thats what the bible God can never do - he allegedly demanded his child as sacrifice. The bible did not call for religious war to convert the infidels. Then what is this?: "'Pass through the city after him, and smite; your…eye shall not spare and you shall show no pity; slay old men outright, young men and maidens, little children and women...'" The wars were between a nation to another nation. Which nation to another nation? Was it commanded by the bible God or not? "Slay and utterly destroy after them, says the Lord, and do all that I have commanded you." Jeremiah 50:21 It is not prescribed for us to continue. But for muslims, wars are prescribed for them to convert people by force like boko haram, isil and other islamic jihadists. War is not priscribed for us to continue either. Only that you are not ready for the truth. The only stage where we are allowed to wage war is only when we are oppressed as simply stated in Surah Al-Hajj, Verse 39-40: PERMISSION [to fight] is given to those against whom war is being wrongfully waged and, verily, God has indeed the power to succour them -: those who have been driven from their homelands against all right for no other reason than their saying. “Our Sustainer is God!” For, if God had not enabled people to defend themselves against one another, all] monasteries and churches and synagogues and mosques - in [all of] which Gods name is abundantly extolled - would surely have been destroyed [ere now]. And God will most certainly succour him who succours His cause: for, verily, God is most powerful, almighty,... Furthermore, another verse makes us understand that we are to deal gently and kindly with those that meant no harm to us Surah Al-Mumtahina, Verse 8: As for such [of the unbelievers] as do not fight against you on account of [your] faith, and neither drive you forth from your homelands, God does not forbid you to show them kindness and to behave towards them with full equity: for, verily, God loves those who act equitably. I learned that the head of isil holds phd in islamic studies. He must know better than you for doing what he is doing. Do you know Bert D Erhman? He is a respected scholar of the new testament? Do you kknow more than him? [s] Lie! The religion of the universe and of every part of it is not islam. The word islam is a deceptive word designed by satan to include every believer in God. Everybody in the universe is not a muslim, hence the fighting the unbelievers by muslims.Not everybody in the world submits to God, some don't even believe God exists. Even though muslims worship satan in ignorance, there are people whose religion is Satan Worship, the satanists. Do those ones too submit to your allah? [/s] I won't bother waste my time with this. Allah lies here. Not everybody submits to him. There are people who don't believe he exists, talkless of submitting to him. Do we all submit to NATURE or not? Who originates it? Islamic war is not against pagans of Mecca alone. Both the Jews are Christians were also killed till now. Don't hide under any treaty or oath. I have already cleared the context behind the surah. You can continue Ranting. [Quran3:151] Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah (the Christians), for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire: And evil is the home of the wrong-doers! [/quote] This doesn't support your point at all, it doesn't tell us to go about killing people. The verse makes us understand that he would carry out his judgement himself. So, lemme ask you, what is you explanation to this: Deuteronomy 2:25 This very day I will begin to put the terror and fear of you on all the nations under heaven. They will hear reports of you and will tremble and be in anguish because of you.” Cover your face with your two hands for this lie. Lool. you are the one that needs to cover your head in shame. Was Muhammad alone in the fight? What about his other soldiers? The verse again is bidden on the prophet at that specific time. I noticed that you deliberately missed some cogent questions there. I will ask again. '.....All these have absolved the Prophet and Islam from the evils and misinterpretations of any Quranic verse or hadith narration and have vindicated the Muslims of their stand. Even plainbibletruth acknowledged this fact when he said: Even some of his very close friends and associates were Jews and Christians. His main secretary was said to be a Jew. . Then the question is, why didn't he kill them, since thats what you wanted us to believe up here? [ Islam is full of lies, inconsistencies and hypocrisy. Thats because you can neither see nor ear and you are obstinate to the truth. A verse says "let there be no compulsion in religion" another says "fight the people of the book, who forbids not what allah has forbidden". This is another clear case of allah changing his words I am talking about. Thats rather as a result of your devilish interpretation of the Quran. My friend, as you can see for yourself that you have refuted nothing. You only put some lies up to erase the fact that the muslims are avoiding the questions. Questions remained unanswered yet. What would you have said? Of course you are not here to learn but to critize blindly. To the best of my knowledge your useless thread has been debunked. Now lets go back to my thread. ..truthman.. 4 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Questions Muslims Have Been Avoiding by truthman2013: 4:54pm On Aug 05, 2015 |
Jagoon: Jagoon: Truthman2012, do you agree with the above statement of your brother.? ..truthman.. |
| Re: Questions Muslims Have Been Avoiding by truthman2012(m): 5:23pm On Aug 05, 2015 |
SUMMARY: Was allah changing his words by SUBSTITUTION after he had said his word cannot change? YES. If anyone doubts it, I promise to post some of the SUBSTITUTIONS. Allah said the whole earth has submitted to him WILLINGLY OR BY COMPULSION. Is it true? NO. A number of people do not submit to him as there are Jews, Christians, atheists etc who do not recognise islamic allahh as the true God. Are islamic wars for SELF DEFENCE OR REPRISAL? NO. Many innocent Jews and Christians who were harmless were killed for not believing Muhammad and his newly found allahh, which was one of the 360 idols inside kaaba. Is the quran a replacement of the Torah and Gospel? NO. The quran itself confirms Torah and Gospel were in use during Muhammad's LONE revelations, not confirmed by any other prophet. Unlike the bible where different prophets from different generations confirmed the word of the true God. |
| Re: Questions Muslims Have Been Avoiding by Nobody: 5:35pm On Aug 05, 2015 |
Thank God I am not a muslim  2 Likes |
| Re: Questions Muslims Have Been Avoiding by Nobody: 5:38pm On Aug 05, 2015 |
Even if I was born a muslim in a fundermentalist islamic country, I would have renounced the evil religion years ago and damned their satanic apotasy laws  |
| Re: Questions Muslims Have Been Avoiding by malvisguy212: 5:40pm On Aug 05, 2015 |
Surah 6:115: “The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient.” However, note the contradiction in Surah 2:106: “Whatever verse we shall abrogate, or cause (thee) to forget, we will bring a better one than it, or one like unto it. Dost thou not know that God is almighty?” Al-Baydawi is one of Islam’s foremost scholars. His greatest legacy was his Qur’anic exegesis, which served as a standard text in Islamic educational institutions around the Muslim world for many centuries. He stated the real purpose for the revealing of Surah 2:106: “This verse was given because the Jews and the infidels said that Muhammad ordered his followers to do something, then He prohibited them from it and commanded them to do something opposite to it. Abrogation means eliminating reading it as an act of worship or eliminating the ordinance inferred from it, or both of them. To forget it means to remove it from hearts.” (p. 22) This shows that it was a habit of Muhammad to state something to his followers with the claim that it was revealed to him by Allah, but then later to inform them that Allah had invalidated it. Thus, the infidels used to say, “Muhammad utters something today and abolishes it tomorrow.” ONE eXAMPLE IS HERE: Surah 8:65: “O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are TWENTY PATIENT ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred of you they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they are a people who do not understand.” (Shakir) Allah revealed twenty muslims will defeat two hundreds unbelievers, the muslims sees this as a hard task so they complained,muhammed did not even waited long before surah 66 was revealed,not the contradiction here: Surah 8:66: “For the present Allah has made light your burden, and He knows that there is weakness in you; so if there are a HUNDREDS PATIENTS ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a thousand they shall overcome two thousand by Allah’s permission, and Allah is with the patient.” (Shakir) From twenty to two hundreds, infacte to make it worse, the both revelation huge the believers to be PATIENT.further more: Sahih Bukhari, Volume 6, Book 60, Number 176: Narrated Ibn Abbas: When the Verse:–‘If there are twenty steadfast amongst you (Muslims), they will overcome TWO-HUNDREDS (non-Muslims).’ was revealed, it became hard on the Muslims when it became compulsory that one Muslim ought not to flee (in war) before ten (non- Muslims). So (Allah) lightened the order by revealing: ‘(But) now Allah has lightened your (task) for He knows that there is weakness in you. So if there are of you ONE-HUNDREDS steadfast, they will overcome (two-hundred (non- Muslims).’ (8.66) So when Allah reduced the number of enemies which Muslims should withstand, their patience and perseverance against the enemy decreased as much as their task was lightened for them. We have so many evidences in these two Qur’anic verses to prove Islam false through and through. Consider the following: 1. Why did the prophecy of Almighty Allah fail in its fulfillment? 2. Does not this show that Allah is incapable of seeing through to the fulfillment of his promises in the Qur’an? 3. Does this not also prove that Allah cannot be the Almighty God as he claims? 4. Why it is a habit of Allah to decree an ordinance and then change his mind and replace it shortly with a lighter or easier commandment? 5. Does not the fact that Allah got it wrong the first time shows that he is also learning by trial and error just like any imperfect human? 6. Why did not Allah know that the Muslims would be unable to cope with his demand to defeat their enemies ten times their number? 7. Is it not true that Allah had to abrogate his eternal Words in the Qur’an because he failed to understand the capability of his warriors? 8. Why was the ratio dropped from 1:10 to 1:2? Is it not so because only now Allah came to realize the weakness of the Muslims? Why did not Allah know this truth just one verse away? 3 Likes |
| Re: Questions Muslims Have Been Avoiding by malvisguy212: 5:48pm On Aug 05, 2015 |
Here is one again: Surah 73:1-2: “O you wrapped in garments (i.e. Prophet Muhammad)! STAND (TO PRAY ) ALL NIGHT , except a little.” (Hilali-Khan) However, the above two verses are abrogated by the last verse of the very same Surah: Surah 73:20: “Verily, your Lord knows that you do stand (to pray at night) a little less than two-thirds of the night, or half the night, or a third of the night, and so do a party of those with you, And Allah measures the night and the day. He knows that you are UNABLE TO PRAY THE WHOLE NIGHT , so He has turned to you (in mercy). So, recite you of the Qur’an as much as may be easy for you.” (Hilali-Khan) The directive to “Stand to pray all night, except a little” in Surah 73:2 is abrogated by Surah 73:20 – the last verse of the same Surah. But then it was abrogated again by the implementation of the five daily prayers. Thus, the abrogator was abrogated. 2 Likes |
| Re: Questions Muslims Have Been Avoiding by malvisguy212: 5:58pm On Aug 05, 2015 |
“Two men read a Surah which the apostle of God had taught them, yet one night they rose up to pray but they failed to remember one word of it. The next morning, they went to the apostle of God and related it to him. He told them, ‘It is one of those, which have been abrogated, thus, forget about it …”’ (Refer to the Itqan, 3:74). UNBELIEVABLE!!! This is pure contradiction.Can you believe this? Not only is the forgetfulness of the Prophet is taken as an indication of abrogation by Allah but even the forgetfulness of ordinary Muslims were considered as such. What happened to the written verses. Were they a re ? Sahih Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 48, Number 823: Narrated By ‘Aisha : The Prophet heard a man (reciting Qur’an) in the Mosque, and he said, “May Allah bestow His Mercy upon him. No doubt, he made me remember such- and such Verses of such-and-such Surah WHICH I DROPED (FROM MY MEMORY). Muhammad forgot some verses and one of his friends reminded him of them. However, when there was no one to remind him, he claimed that these verses have been abrogated by Allah. We saw this to be true previously when two of his followers told him that they had forgotten some of the verses which he had taught them. Muhammad told them that these verses “have been abrogated, thus, forget about it.” In truth, the doctrine of abrogation is nothing more than an implicit admission that the Qur’an contradicts itself. This is true because a verse is considered to be abrogated only when two verses cannot be reconciled with each other. In other words, when two verses in the Qur’an contradict each other. 2 Likes |
| Re: Questions Muslims Have Been Avoiding by truthman2013: 6:01pm On Aug 05, 2015 |
truthman2012: Oga, your useless thread has been debunked. I am not obliged to force you to accept the truth, it is your decision to make. It is just pitiable that you have succeded in evading the salient question(s) posed at you. Perhaps it would have set you free had you attempt them. .truthman.. |
| Re: Questions Muslims Have Been Avoiding by truthman2012(m): 6:30pm On Aug 05, 2015 |
ALLAH'S REVELATIONS AND THE SUBSTITUTIONS Can muslims marry non- Muslims? DO NOT MARRY UNBELIEVING WOMEN (idolaters), until they believe: A slave woman who believes is better than an unbelieving woman, even though she allures you. Nor marry (your girls) to unbelievers until they believe: A man slave who believes is better than an unbeliever, even though he allures you. Unbelievers do (but) beckon you to the Fire. But Allah beckons by His Grace to the Garden (of bliss) and forgiveness, and makes His Signs clear to mankind: That they may celebrate His praise. Qur'an 2:221 SUBSTITUTED WITH: This day are (all) good things made lawful for you. The food of those who have received the Scripture is lawful for you, and your food is lawful for them. And so are the virtuous women of the believers AND THE VIRTUOUS WOMEN OF THOSE WHO RECEIVED THE SCRIPTURE BEFORE YOU (lawful for you) when ye give them their marriage portions and live with them in honour, not in fornication, nor taking them as secret concubines. Whoso denieth the faith, his work is vain and he will be among the losers in the Hereafter. Qur'an 5:5 Will Allah reward the good deeds of non-Muslims? Lo! Those who believe (in that which is revealed unto thee Muhammad) and those who are Jews and Christians and Sabaens – whosoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right – SURELY THEIR REWARD IS WITH THEIR LORD and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve. Qur’an 2:62 SUBSTITUTED WITH: It is not for such as join gods with Allah, to visit or maintain the mosques of Allah while they witness against their own souls to infidelity. THE WORKS OF SUCH BEAR NO FRUITS?: In Fire shall they dwell. Qur'an 9:17 How should muslims treat those who do not believe in an afterlife? Tell those who believe, to FORGIVE those who do not look forward to the Days of Allah: It is for Him to recompense (for good or ill) each People according to what they have earned. Qur'an 45:14 SUBSTITUTED WITH: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. Qur'an 9:29 For whom is salvation? Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians, - any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. Qur'an 5:69 SUBSTITUTED WITH: If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good). Qur'an 3:85 What should muslims do with infidel family? And if they contend with you that you should associate with Me what you have no knowledge of, do not obey them, and KEEP COMPANY WITH THEM IN THIS WORLD KINDLY, and follow the way of him who turns to Me, then to Me is your return, then will I inform you of what you did Qur'an 31:15 SUBSTITUTED WITH: O ye who believe! Choose not your fathers nor your brethren for friends if they take pleasure in disbelief rather than faith. Whoso of you taketh them for friends, such are wrong-doers. Qur'an 9:23 Let me stop here as the list is sooo long. |
| Re: Questions Muslims Have Been Avoiding by truthman2012(m): 7:28pm On Aug 05, 2015 |
''When We SUBSTITUTE one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not [Quran 16:101 YusufAli]. The people at that time accussed Muhammad of forgery having discovered the INCONSTITENCIES in the revelations he claimed he received. Is it not crystal clear now that allahh was changing his words by substitutions despite his boast that his words cannot change? A lying god!!! All of Rilwayne01 alias fake truthman2013 LIES have been exposed. |
| Re: Questions Muslims Have Been Avoiding by true2god: 7:38pm On Aug 05, 2015 |
truthman2012:Do you mean 'agbaya' mohammed slept with baby aisha when he (mohammed) was 54 years and aisha 9 years? Mohammed must be an evil man, a serios pedophille then. 1 Like |
| Re: Questions Muslims Have Been Avoiding by truthman2013: 7:43pm On Aug 05, 2015 |
truthman2012: Loool. So this is what you resort to when your thread is utterly refuted? Don't you have shame at all You can't address my rebuttal but you can type rubbish? ..truthman . 1 Like |
| Re: Questions Muslims Have Been Avoiding by Nobody: 7:57pm On Aug 05, 2015 |
truthman2013: Sharrap you did not refute anything, you just posted some al taqquiya nonsense. |
| Re: Questions Muslims Have Been Avoiding by MrOra(m): 8:15pm On Aug 05, 2015 |
I usually don't like to touch delicate topics like this but I will this time, not unto judgement but unto declaration of observations. Please consider this questions without the Bible in your mind. Just analyze this with a clear answer and not insults. 1st. Why are there so much changes, mostly in the same book, verses apart? 2nd. Why are Muslims afraid to touch this things (I mean in diversity here and not just NL)? 3rd. Why does it look so much like Allah has so many mood swings. Like he's happy now in the morning and evening he sounds angry? 4th. I once did a research on jihad (that's where I first noticed the irregularities), top Islamic scholars say jihad is not outward but an inward fight against disobedience to the word of Allah. Now if jihad is inward who are the people in you who do not believe and are oppressing you? 5th. All religions are questionable, that's why all emphasize on faith believing in that which you have not seen. Take for example I know a church that do not use another version of the Bible except KJV, I usually argue that that version was translated from one other version and probably some changes made I even heard it was translated by Shakespeare (a satanist). Now these are translations, how much more contradictions, shocking contradictions by an all knowing God? What do we do if translations are brought in? If I believe in KJV and Mr A believes in a revised standard you would agree we are still christians, if I believe in inward jihad and boko Haram believe in outward jihad shouldn't we both be moslems? Why is it that when this is brought up the reply is they are not moslems or true moslems? Does this imply that the part of the Quran that stands as their reason is wrong? 6th. This should be a part of 5th but it was getting too long. In the Bible christians were told by Jesus that with faith they can move mountain, If you look below that verse you'll see that Jesus clearly stated that this is only possible through prayer and fasting. This part most christians omit. Now in the Quran if a verse says I should eat fish and the following verse says I should not eat fish at all do I get the liberty to choose which verse I want instead of one complementing the other? 7th. In all this confusion is the Quran and Allah perfect? Please I beg you, answer as though you want to convert me not as though you want to condemn me. It's nice seeing people who are really into sensible research. |
| Re: Questions Muslims Have Been Avoiding by malvisguy212: 8:21pm On Aug 05, 2015 |
truthman2013: malvisguy212: truthman2013: |
| Re: Questions Muslims Have Been Avoiding by truthman2012(m): 9:56pm On Aug 05, 2015 |
truthman2013: You still can talk? Didn't you read allahh's REVELATIONS and the ABROGATION or SUBSTITUTION up there? Something or rather many things must be wrong with you if you are still arguing. |
| Re: Questions Muslims Have Been Avoiding by abduljabbar4(m): 1:22am On Aug 06, 2015 |
Jagoon:Stop displaying your buybull mentality here that's why I never cared to reply the op. Now after getting answers, the most you can do is to call it a lie when you have 0 proof that truthman lied. Indeed, anti-lieman2012 is here! |
| Re: Questions Muslims Have Been Avoiding by abduljabbar4(m): 1:24am On Aug 06, 2015 |
truthman2012:Shut up lieman after getting answers from truthman ur still not satisfied. You will keep on getting dissappointed cos our religion is the only true religion. Watch out for my questions. They are almost ready |
| Re: Questions Muslims Have Been Avoiding by truthman2012(m): 7:48am On Aug 06, 2015 |
abduljabbar4: Look at allahh's revelations and the abrogations/substitutions up there and say something. A god that is inconsistent cannot be the true God. Let Rilwayne01 aka fake truthman2013 or yourself come and defend the list of substituted verses in the quran and let's see. He had once lied that there are no substitutions in quran. For your information, there is nothing like true religion. The true God has no religion but His own people. 1 Like |
| Re: Questions Muslims Have Been Avoiding by truthman2012(m): 7:57am On Aug 06, 2015 |
truthman2013: Hey! You once lied there are no SUBTITUTIONS/ABROGATIONS in the quran, now that you have seen some of them, why are you silent? Common, speak out. Or are you searching for LIES to defend them? |
| Re: Questions Muslims Have Been Avoiding by truthman2012(m): 8:07am On Aug 06, 2015 |
abduljabbar4: Look at allahh's substituting or reversing his own words as clearly stated up there and defend why he would say something today and reverse it tomorrow, manipulating the muslims. The ignorant muslims would say there are no contradictions in the quran. |
| Re: Questions Muslims Have Been Avoiding by abduljabbar4(m): 8:41am On Aug 06, 2015 |
truthman2012:Must i be the one to explain mr lieman? Truthman2013 explained and the best you and your a$$ licker could do was to call him a liar out of frustration. Meanwhile have you danced naked today? Oh today is Friday 1 Like |
| Re: Questions Muslims Have Been Avoiding by truthman2013: 8:54am On Aug 06, 2015 |
Jagoon: Lol.. Writing jargons again as usual? I'm not surprised. |
| Re: Questions Muslims Have Been Avoiding by zicoraads: 9:09am On Aug 06, 2015 |
Am more interested in what has come to be known as the Satanic Verses...which contrary to wide belief was not an invention of any religion or Salman Rushdie. I couldn't go through all the contents of this thread, the red fonts are affecting my eyes. But I think I saw where someone stated that unlike the Bible, the Qur'an has remained unchanged. It is either he is being coy with the truth, or he lacks complete knowledge about his religion. Many Muslims have constantly denied that the Satanic Verses, for along period formed a part of the Qur'an. For many Muslims, it is simply inconceivable that Muhammed could form some sort of an alliance with his Meccan enemies. Or, that satan could somehow whisper his thoughts into the substance of God's holy Words, the Qur'an. That is why the idea of the satanic verses in the Qur'an shocks many muslims. But the truth is that, these verses were originally part of the Qur'an. So, if the Qur'an has remained unchanged, what happened to these verses? And, more importantly, why was the devil able to whisper and somehow manipulate the prophet Muhammed? 2 Likes |
Muhammad Said He Was A Sinner, Why Do Many Muslims Contradict Him ? / Why do Muslims hardly Pray In secular Gatherings? / Acknowledging Mistakes And Making Amendments When Your Attention Is Called To it
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