The Motto of 21st century life is " Whatever can be imagined can be accomplished ".

The world, once defined by churchmen, has undergone tremendous changes over the last few centuries. It started with the gradual , but steady emasculation of Papal Power, the Church and the Churchmen.

Today, we live in era of unprecedented freedom, relative peace, great advancements in scientific technology, as well as advancement in the rights of individuals.

Even recently, none other than the Papi himself, Pope Francis, Bishop of Rome, has hinted that there is a need to revise old scriptures for new understandings.
To wit, a lot of widely and tightly held beliefs need to go , and having been going the way of the DODO BIRD.

Then comes this stunner from Canada:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/atheist-minister-fighting-united-churchs-effort-to-fire-her/article25849312/

An ordained United Church of Canada minister who believes in neither God nor Bible said Wednesday she is prepared to fight an unprecedented attempt to boot her from the pulpit for her beliefs.


In an interview at her West Hill church, Rev. Gretta Vosper said congregants support her view that how you live is more important than what you believe in.

“I don’t believe in...the god called God,” Vosper said. “Using the word gets in the way of sharing what I want to share.”

Vosper, 57, who was ordained in 1993 and joined her east-end church in 1997, said the idea of an interventionist, supernatural being on which so much church doctrine is based belongs to an outdated world view.


What’s important, she says, is that her views hearken to Christianity’s beginnings, before the focus shifted from how one lived to doctrinal belief in God, Jesus and the Bible.

“Is the Bible really the word of God? Was Jesus a person?” she said.

“It’s mythology. We build a faith tradition upon it which shifted to find belief more important than how we lived.”


Vosper made her views clear as far back as a Sunday sermon in 2001 but her congregation stood behind her until a decision to do away with the Lord’s Prayer in 2008 prompted about 100 of the 150 members to leave. The rest backed her.

Things came to a head this year after she wrote an open letter to the church’s spiritual leader pointing out that belief in God can motivate bad things — a reference to the Charlie Hebdo massacre in Paris.

“That didn’t go over well,” Vosper said. “(But) if we are going to continue to use language that suggests we get our moral authority from a supernatural source, any group that says that can trump any humanistic endeavour.”

Rev. David Allen, executive secretary of the Toronto Conference, said he took various concerns about Vosper to the church’s executive, which decided it wanted to investigate her fitness to be a minister.

First, however, they needed to know the process.

“We’d never done it before,” Allen said.

In response, Nora Sanders, general secretary of the church’s General Council, issued a ruling in May laying out a review process that could ultimately lead to Vosper’s defrocking.

Essentially, Sanders said, the review should determine whether she was being faithful to her ordination vows, which included affirming a belief in “God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.”

Vosper is appealing Sanders’ ruling, saying it puts any minister at risk of being judged and found wanting. An ecclesiastical court is set to hear her appeal in the fall.

Allen concedes the issue has the potential to cause disunity in the United Church, which prides itself on tolerance for diversity and inclusiveness.

“What we don’t want is to limit the scope of beliefs within the church, and yet what was being questioned here was: Has she gone too far?” Allen said.

“The vision of the United Church of Canada is: There is a God in whom we believe, and our statements of faith are very clear about that.”

Randy Bowes, board chairman at West Hill who led the search committee that hired Vosper, said he’s had no complaints from congregants.

People want to engage in critical thinking as they explore new ways of expressing their faith and values, Bowes said, and that conversation is “alive and rich” within the community.

In the interim, Vosper said she and those who support her will continue to hold true to her humanistic views.

“If the cost of that is that we are no longer welcome within that denomination, it will be because that denomination has defined us out of it, not because we have defined ourselves out of it.”

Now, before you engage in your much expected kneejerk reaction and then start hurling bible quotations, take a deep breath, calm down, count sheep up to 10 , then reread the article, especially keys very important points she makes. Then think carefully about them.

Here, she asks, " Is faith and religion about what we believe or about how we live our lives as human beings ? "

Did Jesus supposedly come to Earth from heaven to teach us HOW TO LIVE or What To Believe ?
Did Jesus teach Doctrine or Simple Truths of living ?
Did Jesus come to FREE you from the yoke of beliefs or to Yoke you with Doctrine and more Beliefs ?

These are your Sunday thinking assignment today.

The West started this... They've gradually drifted away and might soon end this...


But any hope for Africa?

How can you want to stay in a system you don't believe in?The Church has a foundation.You don't believe in it yet you want to be part of it?Why don't you just quit?

Atheists are often confused.

herald9:
The West started this... They've gradually drifted away and might soon end this...


But any hope for Africa?

Yes. The internet and WiFi. The new African babies won't go for that rubbish provided they have 24hr access to the Wi-Fi.

plaetton:
Now, before you engage in your much expected kneejerk reaction and then start hurling bible quotations, take a deep breath, calm down, count sheep up to 10 , then reread the article, especially keys very important points she makes. Then think carefully about them.

Here, she asks, " Is faith and religion about what we believe or about how we live our lives as human beings ? "

Did Jesus supposedly come to Earth from heaven to teach us HOW TO LIVE or What To Believe ?
Did Jesus teach Doctrine or Simple Truths of living ?
Did Jesus come to FREE you from the yoke of beliefs or to Yoke you with Doctrine and more Beliefs ?

These are your Sunday thinking assignment today.

I am calm...

If this is her belief she should start her own church and teach what she wants. She broke her vows according to those she partook to gain her ordination.

She can no longer hold a position in this organization. This church has set forth what their beliefs are, if she no longer agrees with the churches beliefs she should leave and start her own. If her congregation is truly behind her, as she says, they will follow her. She can preach whatever she wants in her church.

She can go online and become a fully sanctioned Minister of the state. It is obvious she feels no need to be ordained of God. Why would it bother her to lose an authority she doesn't believe in anyway?

texanomaly:


I am calm...

If this is her belief she should start her own church and teach what she wants. She broke her vows according to those she partook to gain her ordination.

She can no longer hold a position in this organization. This church has set forth what their beliefs are, if she no longer agrees with the churches beliefs she should leave and start her own. If her congregation is truly behind her, as she says, they will follow her. She can preach whatever she wants in her church.

She can go online and become a fully sanctioned Minister of the state. It is obvious she feels no need to be ordained of God. Why would it bother her to loose an authority she doesn't believe in anyway?

Good points Tex,.. But...
I will take you up on this later.

plaetton:


Good points Tex,.. But...
I will take you up on this later.

texanomaly:

Every revolutionary idea makes it debut as a grand heresy.

My point is that this particular priest, like many before her, is a Social Interrupter.
People like her are rare but dot the Pages of human history.

Rather than, as you suggest, to quitely go away and do her own thing, she is standing, challenging the Status quo, and at the same time challenging all of us.

She is essentially sowing a Seed of thought, albeit, a dangerous one , by forcing us to ask ourselves once again,. " were we created /evolved to live and explorer, or to shackle ourselves with blind beliefs and man made doctrines?

If ordained priests, including the ArchBishop Of Canterbury, can question the existence of god, if the Pope himself is advising that we take the creation story as mythical allegories, then there isn't a better time to ask ourselves whether what we believe is better than how we live.

I have always suspected that some orthodox Priests(Non-Nigerians in particular) especially of Catholic origin to be 45% closet atheists. 9 years (and even after seminary) studying theology and philosophy can do a lot to a fertile intelligent mind that is always willing to learn outside the scope of the bible. That is why the average orthodox priests reasons quite differently (and rather more intelligently) than modern day Pastors.

#Just my opinion, you don't have to agree.

kevoh:
I have always suspected that some orthodox Priests(Non-Nigerians in particular) especially of Catholic origin to be 45% closet atheists. 9 years (and even after seminary) studying theology and philosophy can do a lot to a fertile intelligent mind that is always willing to learn outside the scope of the bible. That is why the average orthodox priests reasons quite differently (and rather more intelligently) than modern day Pastors.

#Just my opinion, you don't have to agree.

I agree 100%*

plaetton:

[quote author=plaetton post=36806998]

Every revolutionary idea makes it debut as a grand heresy.

My point is that this particular priest, like many before her, is a Social Interrupter.
People like her are rare but dot the Pages of human history.

Rather than, as you suggest, to quitely go away and do her own thing, she is standing, challenging the Status quo, and at the same time challenging all of us.

She is essentially sowing a Seed of thought, albeit, a dangerous one , by forcing us to ask ourselves once again,. " were we created /evolved to live and explorer, or to shackle ourselves with blind beliefs and man made doctrines?

If ordained priests, including the ArchBishop Of Canterbury, can question the existence of god, if the Pope himself is advising that we take the creation story as mythical allegories, then there isn't a better time to ask ourselves whether what we believe is better than how we live.

@ the bolded
Some people live what theY believe and believe what they live. She (and you) have no right to tell them they are wrong because you disagree.


As far as her standing up goes...this is where I get a little pissed. It seems she thinks her voice is the only one that matters. This is the stance that many, who claim others are being "intolerant", take. They think that we must agree and acquies or we are the bad guys.

This is how evil works. It tries to make us feel like if we don't go along with this new idea, we are being intolerant, prejudicial, racist and/or some sort of "phobic". It presents itself as a "change" for the better, and if we disagree with them we are a bad person.

A friend of a friend posted this on fb. I don't know the author, but this person is so on point. He/she says it so much better than I ever could.

Excerpt from a fb post

Six Stages of Deception:

Deception is a process by which wrong becomes right, and right becomes wrong. It’s a complete paradigm shift of opinions, standards and morals that is achieved softly, subtly and often takes a generation to entrench into society.


If you want to know what I am talking about, find out your mother’s views on things like sexuality and marriage and compare them with yours. The contrast in opinions does not necessarily prove that she is old and antiquated; it may instead prove that you have been deceived.


There are six stages of deception. ● The shocker ● The outrage ● The discussion ● Tolerance ● Acceptance ● Veneration


If I wanted to popularize the most unimaginable thing in our society, say like bestiality (the practice of having sex with animals), I would follow these steps. I would select a forerunner to drop the shocking message on an unsuspecting public. “We should start having sex with animals,” he would announce on radio, TV or in a newspaper. That is the shocker; the bombshell, so to speak.


It would inevitably be followed by outrage. The forerunner is abused and demonized by the bewildered public. Every respected leader in society comes out to slam the lamentable reprobate who dared suggest something so obnoxious. The forerunner defiantly defends the practice. His critics come out even more scathing. But the forerunner knows exactly what he is doing. He is setting an agenda.


Many people don’t understand the effect of continuous exposure on the human mind. I will give an example most of you will understand. If you ask a girl out and she is not interested in you, the best thing she can do for herself is stay away from you or your words. If she continues listening to you, what was initially unthinkable becomes worth a consideration, then acceptable. Many ladies have fallen for guys they swore never to date just because they didn’t understand the law of continuous exposure.


Once the bestiality message reaches the third stage; discussion, the forerunner has done his job. At this stage there is a big debate over bestiality; with most people still slamming it, not knowing that they are falling into a trap.


I know for a fact that homosexual groups abroad were giving money to people fighting homosexuality in Uganda. Then they would also fund those pushing for it. Initially it didn’t make sense. Until I learned how deception works. What they wanted was to keep the subject of homosexuality in public debate.


They knew exactly what they were doing. The more people are exposed to it through discussion, the more it becomes less obnoxious in their minds. That leads to the next stage: Tolerance. At this stage people say: “I am not going to have sex with animals, but if someone chooses to do it, shauri yake (that’s his problem). Others will say: “Who cares what people do behind closed doors?” I
have heard these statements being made by people who clearly don’t understand what they are up against.


This is the stage at which science kicks in to ‘prove’ that some people are born with an inherent attraction towards animals and they cannot help themselves. Consequently, bestiality is included in the UN Human Rights Charter and activists are given a new pursuit. Economic and travel sanctions are used to twist the arms of nations that still forbid it. Then we start hearing phrases like: “We cannot tell people whom they should love.” The main purpose of this stage is to ensure that bestiality is legally accepted.


The next two steps are aimed at entrenching it at a social level. The penultimate stage is Acceptance. At this stage bestiality becomes a conventional alternative way of living. All the outrage has since dissipated. This is the stage at which those still opposed to it are called bestiaphobic (the word will be coined) and they are considered antiquated, old-fashioned, intolerant, dogmatic, religious zealots, bigots…. you’ve heard all those words. This is the stage at which there are bestiality rights parades in major cities.


Then we are reminded that the same book in the Bible that forbids bestiality also forbids eating pork. Then ‘intellectuals’ use that to rubbish the Word of God, and make it look ridiculous.


The final step is Veneration. This is the stage at which the people who practice bestiality are praised. The liberalist media (which includes almost all international channels) subtly promotes them as ‘cool’, intelligent, exposed.

This is the stage at which celebrities ‘come out’ to reveal that they are ‘proud bestialists’. Then bestiality begins to win fresh ‘converts’ everyday because many young people will do anything to be seen as ‘cool’ or to be associated with some Hollywood or football star. That is how you corrupt a whole society

OP there is a big distinction between your topic and your writeup!
the woman is not an atheist, i read your post and she never said she is one(because it would have been wrong). you labeled her an atheist without actually knowing what atheism is. i would suggest you google "Atheism" and read from wikipedia or read this thread: https://www.nairaland.com/2512634/5-important-things-everyone-should
thank you!!!

texanomaly:

Well, if you follow my posts, You note that I speak so much about social engineering, and how we are all socially engineered to see reality in this way or that way.
But like I said before, she is a social interruptor, not too different from Jesus, who was crucified for preaching a worldview different from the Status quo.

Consider your opinion of this lady and compare with the opinions the Senhedrin had of Jesus.

You get the drift ?

plaetton:
The Motto of 21st century life is " Whatever can be imagined can be accomplished ".

The world, once defined by churchmen, has undergone tremendous changes over the last few centuries. It started with the gradual , but steady emasculation of Papal Power, the Church and the Churchmen.

Today, we live in era of unprecedented freedom, relative peace, great advancements in scientific technology, as well as advancement in the rights of individuals.

Even recently, none other than the Papi himself, Pope Francis, Bishop of Rome, has hinted that there is a need to revise old scriptures for new understandings.
To wit, a lot of widely and tightly held beliefs need to go , and having been going the way of the DODO BIRD.

Then comes this stunner from Canada:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/atheist-minister-fighting-united-churchs-effort-to-fire-her/article25849312/

An ordained United Church of Canada minister who believes in neither God nor Bible said Wednesday she is prepared to fight an unprecedented attempt to boot her from the pulpit for her beliefs.


In an interview at her West Hill church, Rev. Gretta Vosper said congregants support her view that how you live is more important than what you believe in.

“I don’t believe in...the god called God,” Vosper said. “Using the word gets in the way of sharing what I want to share.”

Vosper, 57, who was ordained in 1993 and joined her east-end church in 1997, said the idea of an interventionist, supernatural being on which so much church doctrine is based belongs to an outdated world view.


What’s important, she says, is that her views hearken to Christianity’s beginnings, before the focus shifted from how one lived to doctrinal belief in God, Jesus and the Bible.

“Is the Bible really the word of God? Was Jesus a person?” she said.

“It’s mythology. We build a faith tradition upon it which shifted to find belief more important than how we lived.”


Vosper made her views clear as far back as a Sunday sermon in 2001 but her congregation stood behind her until a decision to do away with the Lord’s Prayer in 2008 prompted about 100 of the 150 members to leave. The rest backed her.

Things came to a head this year after she wrote an open letter to the church’s spiritual leader pointing out that belief in God can motivate bad things — a reference to the Charlie Hebdo massacre in Paris.

“That didn’t go over well,” Vosper said. “(But) if we are going to continue to use language that suggests we get our moral authority from a supernatural source, any group that says that can trump any humanistic endeavour.”

Rev. David Allen, executive secretary of the Toronto Conference, said he took various concerns about Vosper to the church’s executive, which decided it wanted to investigate her fitness to be a minister.

First, however, they needed to know the process.

“We’d never done it before,” Allen said.

In response, Nora Sanders, general secretary of the church’s General Council, issued a ruling in May laying out a review process that could ultimately lead to Vosper’s defrocking.

Essentially, Sanders said, the review should determine whether she was being faithful to her ordination vows, which included affirming a belief in “God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.”

Vosper is appealing Sanders’ ruling, saying it puts any minister at risk of being judged and found wanting. An ecclesiastical court is set to hear her appeal in the fall.

Allen concedes the issue has the potential to cause disunity in the United Church, which prides itself on tolerance for diversity and inclusiveness.

“What we don’t want is to limit the scope of beliefs within the church, and yet what was being questioned here was: Has she gone too far?” Allen said.

“The vision of the United Church of Canada is: There is a God in whom we believe, and our statements of faith are very clear about that.”

Randy Bowes, board chairman at West Hill who led the search committee that hired Vosper, said he’s had no complaints from congregants.

People want to engage in critical thinking as they explore new ways of expressing their faith and values, Bowes said, and that conversation is “alive and rich” within the community.

In the interim, Vosper said she and those who support her will continue to hold true to her humanistic views.

“If the cost of that is that we are no longer welcome within that denomination, it will be because that denomination has defined us out of it, not because we have defined ourselves out of it.”

Well am not surprised, she is merely passing through a state of self discovery, which later she will understand that Jesus is the way.

A great poet once said "a faithful man is a man that often doubts his faith, but still finds succour in same faith"

There were times we all felt too enlightened that we continually question our faith, but at the end, a verse in the scripture or a hymn keeps us going.....

mcfynest:



Well am not surprised, she is merely passing through a state of self discovery, which later she will understand that Jesus is the way.

A great poet once said "a faithful man is a man that often doubts his faith, but still finds succour in same faith"

There were times we all felt too enlightened that we continually question our faith, but at the end, a verse in the scripture or a hymn keeps us going.....

Jesus is a white protagonist. She belongs in his company. Black people who look up to the white man are more psychotic.

plaetton:

Well, if you follow my posts, You note that I speak so much about social engineering, and how we are all socially engineered to see reality in this way or that way.
But like I said before, she is a social interruptor, not too different from Jesus, who was crucified for preaching a worldview different from the Status quo.

Consider your opinion of this lady and compare with the opinions the Senhedrin had of Jesus.

You get the drift ?

I don't have a bad opinion of her. Not that my opinion should mean anything to her. I simply said she shouldn't try to insert her way of thinking into the churches way of life. She can do her own thing.

mcfynest:



Well am not surprised, she is merely passing through a state of self discovery, which later she will understand that Jesus is the way.

A great poet once said "a faithful man is a man that often doubts his faith, but still finds succour in same faith"

There were times we all felt too enlightened that we continually question our faith, but at the end, a verse in the scripture or a hymn keeps us going.....

You just described me. There are some parts I read in the Bible and I wonder how GOD could allow, say or do somethings and I admit I have felt like throwing the book away right then.

Then again I still find succour in this same faith.

Weah96:


Jesus is a white protagonist. She belongs in his company. Black people who look up to the white man are more psychotic.

Hmmmmmm. You should respect other peoples faith you know

Anyi3:


You just described me. There are some parts I read in the Bible and I wonder how GOD could allow, say or do somethings and I admit I have felt like throwing the book away right then.

Then again I still find succour in this same faith.

We all have come short in one way or the other

mcfynest:


Hmmmmmm. You should respect other peoples faith you know

Why, when my tax dollars subsidize the "faith?" How come your own faith needs money from others?

Atheist love xtian

Their building is called a Atheist church
Their minister are called pastors

tobechi74:
Atheist love xtian

Their building is called a Atheist church
Their minister are called pastors

Atheists from a Christian background would engage in discussions about the bible.

Atheists from the Islamic background frequent Islamic discussions. They write books called INFIDEL not BACK SLIDERS.