Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? - Religion - Nairaland
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| Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by plainbibletruth: 7:55pm On Sep 08, 2015 |
[size=14pt]Is Allah Praying To Allah Here?[/size] The average Muslim believes the Quran is a copy a book that exists in heaven and was given (recited) to Mohammed. If it was dictated to Mohammed then we would expect the figure of speech to show that. But in a number of instances that is not the case. Take the very first chapter of the Quran and what you find is this: 1:1 In the name of Allah , the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful. 1:2 [All] praise is [due] to Allah , Lord of the worlds - 1:3 The Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful, 1:4 Sovereign of the Day of Recompense. 1:5 It is You we worship and You we ask for help. 1:6 Guide us to the straight path - 1:7 The path of those upon whom You have bestowed favor, not of those who have evoked [Your] anger or of those who are astray. It should be carefully noted that there is no mention of “Say” here as should have been the case in a dictation. Why is the first person figure of speech used here? So, if we are to believe that the Quran is entirely the word of Allah, Is Allah asking himself (Allah) to pray to Himself? Who is worshipping who? Who is asking for whose help? This muddled up position in the Quran is immediately resolved when we realise that it was none other than Mohammed or some other person who is asking his followers to pray to Allah. If so, then clearly man's words are included in the Quran and not only allah's. If we are to believe that man is not the one speaking here, are we then to say that it is Allah praying to Allah for help, for guidance and in worship? Many believe this was a time when Mohammed was just starting out preaching his own brand of ‘Hanifism’ (Islam) and he composed this verse (some say by imitating some Jewish liturgy) for his handful of followers. If any evidence is needed to prove that Mohammed had, indeed composed certain verses of the Qur’an this Al-Fatihah, the seven most oft repeated verses, stand out as the glaring example of that confirmation. "Those who cling to worthless idols forfeit the grace that could be theirs" - Jonah 2:8 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by WHOcarex: 7:59pm On Sep 08, 2015 |
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| Re: Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by music4me(m): 8:17pm On Sep 08, 2015 |
Exactltly what are U planning to gain with this ur confused post?,why not leave what U dnt have knowledge of and face ur life...It ur type that start religious war..The time U spent writing this shit coulda been used for something beneficial like picking beans or breaking melon.... 2 Likes |
| Re: Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by Demmzy15(m): 8:19pm On Sep 08, 2015 |
[s] plainbibletruth:[/s] Mr. Confusion, the Qur'an was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad through the Angel Gabriel/Jibril. Use your brain o! 3 Likes |
| Re: Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by Demmzy15(m): 8:21pm On Sep 08, 2015 |
music4me:Lmaooooo!!  plainbibletruth you don hear ba? Go and pick beans or cook Egusi-Soup for mummy! |
| Re: Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by plainbibletruth: 4:14am On Sep 09, 2015 |
Demmzy15: So, who is speaking in verses 5 & 6[b]?[/b] |
| Re: Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by plainbibletruth: 4:15am On Sep 09, 2015 |
Demmzy15: So, who is speaking in verses 5 & 6? |
| Re: Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by EgusiSoup: 8:07am On Sep 09, 2015 |
Demmzy15:  Why are you calling me? 1 Like |
| Re: Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by Demmzy15(m): 9:30am On Sep 09, 2015 |
EgusiSoup:Bros no vex abeg! |
| Re: Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by Demmzy15(m): 9:32am On Sep 09, 2015 |
plainbibletruth:Angel Gabriel/Jibril was the one that passed the message! |
| Re: Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by plainbibletruth: 4:19pm On Sep 09, 2015 |
Demmzy15:Thank you for admitting that it was angel Jibril speaking here. It is clear then that not all the words of the Quran are purely Allah's words. In other words, Allah is not the only one speaking throughout the Quran. So we see at the beginning of the Quran the words of an angel. In fact, there are more words of others - humans and angels - than DIRECT words of Allah. Let the Muslim take one long chapter of the Quran and find out for himself that not only Allah but humans and angels are reported as speaking in the Quran. |
| Re: Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by Demmzy15(m): 4:33pm On Sep 09, 2015 |
plainbibletruth: Angel Gabriel is always speaking by the command of Allah, he is a messenger who heard and transmitted it to the Prophet Muhammad, he didn't compose it! It is clear then that not all the words of the Quran are purely Allah's words. In other words, Allah is not the only one speaking throughout the Quran. Another baseless assertion: " ‘Abdullah ibn Mas‘ood (may Allah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “When Allah speaks via revelation, the people of heaven hear from heaven a clanging like a chain dragged across a rock and they swoon, then they remain like that until Jibreel (peace be upon him) comes to them. When he comes to them, they recover and say: O Jibril, what did your Lord say? He says: The truth, and they say: The truth, the truth.” [Abu Dawood] Angel Gabriel/Jibril didn't formulate the Qur'an, he was a messenger who passed it to Prophet Muhammad after hearing from Allah. So we see at the beginning of the Quran the words of an angel. That's your opinion and it holds no ground! In fact, there are more words of others - humans and angels - than DIRECT words of Allah. Let the Muslim take one long chapter of the Quran and find out for himself that not only Allah but humans and angels are reported as speaking in the Quran. I've gone through the chapters of the whole Qur'an something you never did and I found nothing as such. Everything is the word of Allah through Angel Gabriel/Jibril! 3 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by plainbibletruth: 10:33pm On Sep 09, 2015 |
Demmzy15:I'm surprised you've not attempted to explain the passage in question. Could it be because you know what the answer is? Can you explain verses 5&6 in line with your statement that angel Jibril transmitted it? |
| Re: Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by Demmzy15(m): 10:35pm On Sep 09, 2015 |
plainbibletruth:Ogbeni scroll up and read! Read more here http://islamqa.info/en/180883 |
| Re: Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by plainbibletruth: 8:01am On Sep 10, 2015 |
Demmzy15:Your reference talked about: Revelation all at Once or Gradually? It did not explain the verses 5&6 of chapter one. So, Can you explain verses 5&6 in line with your statement that angel Jibril transmitted it? |
| Re: Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by malvisguy212: 9:04am On Sep 10, 2015 |
Demmzy15:Surah 33:56 Verily, GOD AND HIS ANGELS PRAY (yusalloona) FOR THE PROPHET the prophet. O ye who believe! pray for him (salloo)and salute him with a salutation! The following is supposed to be a prayer of Allah taken from Ibn Hisham’s Al-Sirah Al-Halabiyya: ﻗﻠﺖ ﻳﺎ ﺟﺒﺮﻳﻞ ﺃﻳﺼﻠﻰ ﺭﺑﻚ ﻗﺎﻝ ﻧﻌﻢ ﻗﻠﺖ ﻭﻣﺎ ﻳﻘﻮﻝ ﻗﺎﻝ ﻳﻘﻮﻝ ﺳﺒﻮﺡ ﻗﺪﻭﺱ ﺭﺏ ﺍﻟﻤﻼﺋﻜﺔ ﻭﺍﻟﺮﻭﺡ ﺳﺒﻘﺖ ﺭﺣﻤﺘﻰ ﻏﻀﺒﻰ I [Muhammad] said, “O Gabriel, does your Lord pray?” He said, “YES.” I said, “What does he say?” “This is what he says. He says: ‘GLORY, HOLY, LORD OF THE ANGELS AND THE SPIRIT . My mercy overcomes my wrath.’” |
| Re: Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by Demmzy15(m): 9:11am On Sep 10, 2015 |
malvisguy212:There's no such thing as Sirah Al Halabiyah, the two works of Ibn Hisham are As-Sirah an-Nabawiyyah and Kitab al-Tijan li ma'rifati muluk al-zaman (Book of Crowns in knowing kings of the age). So Mr. Malvisguy212 you're busted lying, fulfilling Paul's words; "Either through false or true motives". |
| Re: Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by Nobody: 10:01am On Sep 10, 2015 |
plainbibletruth, everything in the quran was taught by Allah through Jibril to our noble prophet Muhammad(s.a.w), how did i get to know? lets see the opening chapters of suratur-rahman(55:1-2) "The Most Gracious(Allah)!, He has TAUGHT (mankind) the Qur'an" now in suratul faatiha(1:1-7), we(muslims) are being taught how to say solat to Allah, and that is the reason why we recite it in all our prayers. as regards verse 5 and 6 that you were asking demmzy, it says "you alone we worship, and you alone we ask for help, guide us to the straight way" putting it in mind that Allah the most gracious taught mankind the Qur'an, then you should know that Allah is trying to teach us that he is ONE, that is why he taught us and laid emphasis on His oneness(i.e you alone we worship and you alone we ask for help) and of course verse 6 Allah is teaching us that when we pray we should also ask him to guide us to the straight path. if you read the whole surah, you will understand why muslims say it in all our solat. |
| Re: Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by Nobody: 10:21am On Sep 10, 2015 |
malvisguy212:let me start with: Arabic is a very rich language and as such one word could mean many things, it now depends on the context you are using it. the word translated to PRAYER by the site you copied and pasted from is "solat", in arabic solat from Allah means sending His Blessing and Mercies to His servants, solat from angels means supplication interceding for we mankind and solat from mankind means prayers to Allah. click here and you will see numerous translations of that verse, none of it says Allah prays, yusaf ali translation is there too(guess you like him  ) |
| Re: Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by malvisguy212: 1:35pm On Sep 10, 2015 |
lexiconkabir:Surah 6:114 What, shall I seek after any JUDGE BUT GOD? For it is He who sent down to you the Book well-distinguished; and those whom WE have given the Book know it is sent down from THY LORD with the truth; so be not thou of the doubters. Surah 70:38-41 What, is every man of them eager to be admitted to a Garden of Bliss? Not so; for WE have created them of what they know. No! I SWEAR BY THE LORD OF THE EAST AND WEST, surely We are able to substitute a better than they; We shall not be outstripped. . Allah swears by the Lord of the easts and wests, says that he will seek no other judge besides God and that he gave the book that Muhammad’s Lord sent down! |
| Re: Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by macof(m): 1:43pm On Sep 10, 2015 |
Not a fan of Islam but the op lacks sense. ..such confusion A real pity 3 Likes |
| Re: Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by Nobody: 3:20pm On Sep 10, 2015 |
malvisguy212:the first verse you quoted is telling muhammad to say! click http://quran.com/6/114 to see the original verse, the second verse Allah is swearing by himself since there is none higher than him, God did swear by himself too in the bible check hebrews6:12-14, genesis22:15-17, jeremiah22:4-5 and so on. 2 Likes |
| Re: Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by plainbibletruth: 7:43pm On Sep 10, 2015 |
[size=5pt] lexiconkabir:[/size] If Allah is teaching man what to pray or how to pray I believe the statement should read something like "Pray like this: ........" or "When you pray, say: ......" But that is not the case here in the sura 1:1-7 I'm referring to. It is the first person figure of speech used here - 'It is you we worship ........' Someone other than Allah is the one making this statement since there is nothing here to show that Allah is directing his subjects to pray saying those words. The "you" and the "we" are obviously two separate sets of persons, so as there is clearly no instruction here telling us it is a directive from allah on how to pray the only reasonable conclusion we can reach is that it is the words of man or angel addressing Allah. So we find here and elsewhere in the Quran words or statements made by men and angels. In other words, it is not ONLY Allah that was speaking in the whole of the Quran. Sometimes it was Allah's words, at other times it was the words of men or angels. |
| Re: Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by eherbal(m): 7:46pm On Sep 10, 2015 |
It's prayer invocation .come up with something better. |
| Re: Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by Nobody: 7:58pm On Sep 10, 2015 |
@plainbibletruth, i strongly believe you read my comments with a biased mind. the 2nd verse of suratur-rahman tells us that Allah has taught mankind the Qur'an, putting that in mind suratul faatiha 1 to 7 is plainly a prayer Allah taught muslims to say, that is why we say "you(alone) we(muslims) worship and you(alone) we(muslims) ask for help" 1 Like |
| Re: Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by plainbibletruth: 11:06pm On Sep 10, 2015 |
lexiconkabir:I did NOT read your comments with a biased mind. I think I'm being as objective as possible. Let's look at it again. Granted that chapter 55 of the Quran said: "The Most Gracious(Allah)!, He has TAUGHT (mankind) the Qur'an". But how do you now superimpose that on chapter 1 that clearly shows a statement made by a person occupying a lesser position to another occupying a superior position. Note again what it says: 1:5 It is You we worship and You we ask for help. 1:6 Guide us to the straight path It is the 'we' worshiping the 'you' and the 'we' asking the 'you' for help that is speaking here. The 'we' here is obviously lesser than the 'you'. If we take Allah (the 'you') as being the greater then the 'we' can only be a lower being - man or angel. It did not say: "Pray like this - ........" It's a straightforward and direct statement that can only mean the recording of what a person said in the first person figure of speech. If we need to borrow from chapter 55 to explain this, that chapter (55) did not even mention anything like "I thought you how to pray .........". It's only a general statement about allah providing the Quran in general. If Allah was speaking here it could have been something like "Worship me, ask me for help, ask me to guide you to the straight path". BUT that is clearly not what we find here. I know that past teachings have made the Muslim believe that ONLY the words of Allah are in the Quran but an objective look by any Muslim will make it clear that words of men and angels are ALSO in the book. This Al-Fatihah, the seven most oft repeated verses, stand out as the glaring example of that confirmation. 1 Like |
| Re: Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by Nobody: 6:52am On Sep 11, 2015 |
@plainbibletruth, alright, since that suratul fatiha is suppose to be said by muslims in all prayers, does it make sense for it to go thus, 1)in my name the most beneficient the most merciful 2)praise be to me the lord of the worlds,....5)its me alone you all worship and its me alone you all ask for help, 6)i should guide you to the straight path. if i am to say the above in my prayers, it can never make sense, so Allah commanded jibril to reaveal it in that form and many suras shows that Allah taught the quran to mankind. The quran has the present, the past and the future. 1 Like |
| Re: Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by malvisguy212: 7:12am On Sep 11, 2015 |
lexiconkabir:you fail woefully. Hebrew 6:13-14 13 For when God made a promise to Abraham, because HE COULD SWEAR BY NO ONE GREATER , HE SWORE BY HIMSELF,14 saying,“Surely blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply you.”[ a] Genesis 22:15-17 15 The angel of the Lord called to Abraham from heaven a second time 16 and said, “I SWARE BY MYSELF, declares the Lord, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17 I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies, God is not the one talking in Jeremiah22:4-5 read it here https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah+22%3A4-5&version=MSG But the quranic verses I provide say ,Allah pray by the Lord of the east , here is another one: Who did Allah hymn praises to? Lo! verily, ye and that which ye worship, Ye cannot excite (anyone) against Him. Save him who is to burn in hell. There is not one of US but hath his known position. Lo! WE, even WE are THEY who set the ranks, Lo! WE, even WE are THEY who hymn HIS PRAISE S. 37:161-166 Pickthall Are you confuse ?who are the "WE" and the "THEY" in this verse ? It is the "WE" who hymn praised to God, surly this God is greater than Allah. Unless you want to tell me ,the quran is not 100% Allah word and angel Gabriel use plurality to adress himself. |
| Re: Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by Nobody: 8:39am On Sep 11, 2015 |
malvisguy212 you are busted, see what Q37:161-162 says, totally different from what you copied and pasted, i have told you to desist from copying and pasting blindly, so as not to be embarrassed, but you wont listen, see your life? didnt God swear by himself in the bible? |
| Re: Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by malvisguy212: 8:57am On Sep 11, 2015 |
lexiconkabir:surah 37:161-166 |
| Re: Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by Nobody: 9:29am On Sep 11, 2015 |
malvisguy212:goto http://quran.com/37:161-166 and see the translations, angels were the ones speaking. |
| Re: Is Allah Praying To Allah Here? by malvisguy212: 10:44am On Sep 11, 2015 |
lexiconkabir:smh |
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