freecocoa:
Yea well, I did answer the initial question and na talk dey bring talk according to my naija people so we are still on course.

So what are you saying? If you think they have a right to sue and they aren't racist, how then are they being unreasonable?

SAMBARRY:


Mister brown Mister brown
you're too funny

the only thing that you have been emphasizing on is emotional and psychological stress in raising the child and the way their counterparts will be looking at them
it is very obvious you don't like half caste bet that one is a story for another day now to the matter #clears throat#

They already have the child. The issue now should be HOW ARE WE GOING TO RAISE THIS CHILD instead of crying over spilled milk.

Fine the hospital has made a mistake and they've owned up to their mistake.

The point is that they should start learning how they will cope with aggressive eyes lurking around then when next they want to have another child they should go to another hospital.

By the way shebi Michael Jackson is a black man (forget the bleaching, nose and hair. No amount of bleaching can change your dna to oyinbo If you are black you are black) and his wife is oyinbo. How come people are not looking at the children some how.

This world is simple. It's we human beings that make it complicated. They should learn how they will love and accept the child. Look beyond his mixed race or whatever.

Tomorrow now if the child is successful they will say that's my son.

Oya tell me who remembers obamas skin colour

every body from Kenya dey claim he's my brother he's from my town we went to the same secondary school we did this together we did that together

Mindfulness:
MRBrownJ,
there are still plenty of people in the Western world who have a problem with homos.exuals having kids and even a bigger one if the child does not know one of her biological parents. How comes they have no problem with societal disapproval of gays having kids but have a problem when it comes to racism.

To mention societal (dis-)approval in this context, as a problem requiring 3 million dollars compensation, is ironic.

If we go by this logic, the girl child should sue her parents in 20 years for 30 billion dollars.

By the way, mixed kids also have advantages. Some people will be extra nice to them in order to show that they are not racist or because they consider them so cute.

author=MRBrownJ post=37878142


again, it is all down to the choices EACH AND EVERYONE takes in life, knowing fully well the consequences of their actions. so if a lesbian couple decides to have a child together, knowing fully well that society may look down on such, then thats their issues and they have ALL THE RIGHTS TO DO THAT, because A) they are lesbians therefore UNDERSTAND FIRST HAND the issue/disapproval of society when it comes to homosexuality and B) it was NEVER forced upon them.


now compare that with having a mixed race child while 1) none of them is black, 2) they have no idea what type of racism blacks/mixed children may go through in their lives, but MOST IMPORTANTLY 3) they never took the decision to have a mixed race child, it was forced upon them thanks to the negligence of the clinic.



anyone has the right to demand whatever they desire, it will be down to the judge to decide HOW MUCH exactly they should get in compensation.

sue them for what exactly?!

although you are right about that it doesnt change the fact that due to the negligence of the clinic, the mothers may STILL suffer emotionally/psychologically and financially.

Mindfulness:
Nobody said they have no right to sue or no right to demand anything. What we are discussing here is whether it is unreasonable and greedy. We are not the judge but we were asked to share our opinions.

Sue them for what she will have to go through, the societal stigma and the fact that she will never know her biological father. It is a choice she has never made.

They will suffer financially for having a mixed kid?
I don't know what it is like to be of mixed race in the USA, but where I am located children do not suffer because they are of mixed race. In fact, they often have an advantage but that's a different topic.

MRBrownJ:


are you now insinuating that i dont like my kids simply because i understand why/how 2 white parents may have difficulties raising a mixed race child in today's society (difficulties that they may not have if that child was white)?!
remember, i have 3 mixed race children



and thats exactly what they are doing.... demanding compensation for the emotional/psychological/financial stress that they may encounter while raising that mixed race child (stress that they would NOT have encounter if the clinic had done their job properly). if you call that "crying over spilled milk" then fair enough, thats your opinion.



YES they have made a mistake, NO they havent solved the issue of "who is going to compensate them for all the emotional/psychological/financial stress that they may endure in the future, thanks to the negligence of this clinic... stress that would be absent if the child was white, as planned."



they will indeed but that doesnt rectify the negligent act by that clinic. if you think that the only duty from a negligent clinic is to pay back the money, and all is clear, then you have a lot to learn. why should these women suffer? why should they have sleepless night? why should they have to pay for psychologists and more, if the error was not theirs?



A) MJ's kids are white (dont get it twisted) B) if his kids were mixed race then this would have been a CONSCIOUS decision taken by both parents to have a mixed race kid in this world, and therefore they would have only themselves to blame as this would be the consequences of their actions, and C) if one of the parent is black then they have the proper background to instill the needed cultural/ethnical values that any afro mixed kids needs.



yes the mothers might be able to do that but are you sure that the whole world will follow suit?! these kids will have to face the world someday and sadly, only the strongest make it.



i doubt these ladies EVER for once second said that the kid was NOT theirs, they just said that as 2 white women raising a mixed race child, it may be harder (and that extra hardship, that they would not have had if the child was white, is the direct consequence of the negligence)



Obama was raised by a single mother who KNOWINGLY decided to have a mixed race child, completely different from a woman who wants a white child and end up with a mixed race one because of a negligent clinic. stop being emotional and stick to the issue at hand sista.



they are proud of his Kenyan heritage, nothing wrong with that.



again, it is all down to the choices EACH AND EVERYONE takes in life, knowing fully well the consequences of their actions. so if a lesbian couple decides to have a child together, knowing fully well that society may look down on such, then thats their issues and they have ALL THE RIGHTS TO DO THAT, because A) they are lesbians therefore UNDERSTAND FIRST HAND the issue/disapproval of society when it comes to homosexuality and B) it was NEVER forced upon them.
now compare that with having a mixed race child while 1) none of them is black, 2) they have no idea what type of racism blacks/mixed children may go through in their lives, but MOST IMPORTANTLY 3) they never took the decision to have a mixed race child, it was forced upon them thanks to the negligence of the clinic.



anyone has the right to demand whatever they desire, it will be down to the judge to decide HOW MUCH exactly they should get in compensation.



sue them for what exactly?!



although you are right about that it doesnt change the fact that due to the negligence of the clinic, the mothers may STILL suffer emotionally/psychologically and financially.

MRBrownJ:


as i said from my 1st post, it is NOT unreasonable nor greedy to demand compensation... you ladies are the one coming with flimsy excuses as to why they are unreasonable/greedy and i gave my views as to why these ladies deserve any penny they can get from this negligent clinic



if their child decides to sue then that will be HER decision... but you certainly cant sit here and expect these women NOT to do what THEY believe is right, simply because some kids down the line may not have the same view. we parents must sometimes take decisions that may not be what others will view as righteous but nevertheless thats what is best for the family that counts. these women are doing what they believe is RIGHT by having fertility treatment/insemination, and therefore let them live with the consequences of their act.



- who will settle the psychologist bills when that child is possibly coming home crying because he/she cant fit in?!
- who will settle the therapy sessions when mama has possibly lost all her friend due to having a mixed race child?
- who will pay for relocation because the town they live in possibly look down on coloured/mixed people?!
- who will foot the bill when having to buy items specifically for mixed race hair/skin care?! (a white child could have used his/her mother's comb etc)

author=MRBrownJ post=37904292]

as i said from my 1st post, it is NOT unreasonable nor greedy to demand compensation... you ladies are the one coming with flimsy excuses as to why they are unreasonable/greedy and i gave my views as to why these ladies deserve any penny they can get from this negligent clinic

if their child decides to sue then that will be HER decision... but you certainly cant sit here and expect these women NOT to do what THEY believe is right, simply because some kids down the line may not have the same view. we parents must sometimes take decisions that may not be what others will view as righteous but nevertheless thats what is best for the family that counts. these women are doing what they believe is RIGHT by having fertility treatment/insemination, and therefore let them live with the consequences of their act.

- who will settle the psychologist bills when that child is possibly coming home crying because he/she cant fit in?!

- who will settle the therapy sessions when mama has possibly lost all her friend due to having a mixed race child?

- who will pay for relocation because the town they live in possibly look down on coloured/mixed people?!

- who will foot the bill when having to buy items specifically for mixed race hair/skin care?! (a white child could have used his/her mother's comb etc)

SAMBARRY:


If the parents build up their children's self esteem and make them realise that they are beautiful intelligent and great nobody can make them feel inadequate because of their race. It has happened it has happened naniyen.if the parents do a good job in raising the kid trust me he or she will be able to face the world without having a feeling of inferiority complex because of his race.

SAMBARRY:
Mister brown that is not professional negligence it is called HUMAN ERROR which anybody is prone to once in a while.

If the parents build up their children's self esteem and make them realise that they are beautiful intelligent and great nobody can make them feel inadequate because of their race. It has happened it has happened naniyen.if the parents do a good job in raising the kid trust me he or she will be able to face the world without having a feeling of inferiority complex because of his race.

Meanwhile no amount of compensation can change his mixed blood to white. Ok let's assume they win the case and maybe the government seizes the licence of the hospital to operate will it change the havoc that has already been committed?

Look at the future stop dwelling on the present. Let by gone be by gone. I don't know why a lion will be sleeping peacefully and yoy will go and pull the tail of a lion . when the thing attacks you una go dey cry foul.
Let sleeping dogs lie.nawa o

SAMBARRY:
Can you imagine Mr Brown jay a whooping 3million dollars loun loun like kilode
longer throat dey worry them o.ahann

how much is the hospital making annually for them to gather 3million dollars.


oya let me bring out my calculator. Here is it.ahen good

Be looking o.

170 naira x30,000,000=

MRBrownJ:


AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH you had me there!
it is the hospital duty to have qualified and competent doctors to deliver a PERFECT service. yes there could be human error anywhere but then THEY (the person and employer) must take FULL responsibility for it, and compensate the people affected by that error.



you are looking at the world with wishful thinking, while i am giving you the raw undiluted version. kids get bullied when different, discriminated upon because of their race/religion/tribe/sex/sexual orientation etc etc etc... also are you trying to say that children with low self esteem (or identity crisis) automatically means the parents didnt do a good job raising them!?!?!?!?!? if you think that you can build ALL kids self esteem as easy as you are making breakfast, then you have a lot to learn.



again, the compensation is not there to CHANGE in any way the race of the kid nor hurt knowingly the clinic... it is to provide necessary funds for the possible emotional/psychological and financial burden that this family will go through, due to the mixed race of the child (burden that they would probably not have gotten if the kid was white)



- not focussing on the present is mistake #1 because we all live in the present, and therefre shouldnt bury our heads in the sand pretending that something is NOT there, when it is right in front of your face.
- thinking that the issue is resolved simply because the hospital paid them back, and/or thinking that these women are "sleeping peacefully" is your mistake #2

MRBrownJ:


sista Sambarry, you are not serious, lol.
how much the hospital makes a year is irrelevant to the important point here: they made a mistake and need to compensate their victims. let a judge decide how much the clinic should pay, and if they havent got the money they can get a loan, sell the hospital etc

SAMBARRY:
you are still saying the same thing. Will the 3 million redo the mistake that has already been made. No matter what 3milla cannot do anything. The truth is that those couples are opportunists

they too want to drive lambogini

SAMBARRY:
Then they should take them to good schools where their esteem and dignity as human beings will surely be protected.

The point is if parents do a good job and the school also tries to protect the children from bullying each other then trust me you have nothing to be bothered about.

Instead of having misplaced priorities e.g paying attention to what is not important as in trying to sue the hospital why don't the couple channel that energy on having another white kid that will match up to their taste and standard in another hospital then focus on how they will bring the siblings up together and learn how to love each other

they are even lucky they're not in Nigeria. Haven't you heard of cases where they mistakenly diagnosed someone for hiv meanwhile he never had hiv or prescribing wrong drugs for wrong ailments and after the damage is done the only thing they can get is sorry. No refunds even ministry of health go dey sidon look. They won't do anything other than sorry

Mindfulness:

I respect your views, I just do not share them. 3 million dollars is greedy. You don't have to share my views. In fact, it is good you don't because else we would have nothing to discuss.

I am quite sure that the child will need a psychologist because she will never get to know her biological father and not because she is mixed.

They should pay the bills for having racist friends. No pity here. We choose the friends we have.

You think there is a town in this world that is racist but tolerant when it comes to gays having kids? I want to see this town.

They would have to buy different products for a child anyway. And even if they didn't, they wouldn't need 3 million dollars to cover these costs.

MRBrownJ:


whatever the amount they desire, it will be down to a judge to decide how much compensation they should get.



of course they should....and the hospital compensation will help towards that.



buying in schools all over the word is real, and a problem NOBODY has been able to fix. saying that tit is easy to avoid is another joke of yours.



will that fix the trauma/burden/stress related to having a mixed race kid?! NOPE!



just because Nigeria is failing in that department, does NOT mean we all must accept poor standards and negligent clinics.

MRBrownJ:


may i ask: how much compensation do you think they deserve?

so you dont believe that mixed race kids can have identity crisis, or difficulties to fit in?

stick to the fact at hand... if they would still have these said friends if the child was white, then the hospital is responsible here.

these women are lesbians and probably "experts" on how to deal with homosexuality issues, while they are not black nor mixed race. so they can probably easily deal with the lesbian issues while cant deal with the mixed race one since they are clueless.

add everything up and it can even be more than 3 milla

(...) Cramblett says that she chose a white, blonde haired, blue-eyed man’s sperm. However, due to a vile mix-up, the woman was sent the sperm of a black man. Therefore, as Cramblett is a white woman, her daughter is bi-racial which is difficult for her because she has “limited cultural competency” with African-Americans and her family is racist. However, the judge ruled there was no “wrongful birth” as the child was born completely healthy.

The Chicago Tribune notes that the judge in the case ruled this week that Cramblett had no cause for the “wrongful birth” lawsuit as the child was born healthy.The judge noted that “wrongful birth” cases are meant to address cases where medical testing was negligent and failed to show risks of congenital or hereditary disorders to a child before birth, not the race of the child. In regards to the warranty claim, Attorney Lynsey Stewart, who’s representing Midwest Sperm Bank in the case, argued that the Illinois Blood and Organ Transaction Liability Act was never intended to address situations such as Cramblett’s, and specifically omits sperm.

However, Cramblett claims that the sperm bank must be held accountable for their mistake as she is now left to raise a bi-racial child alongside her racist family.Cramblett says some of her family members are openly racist and that she has “limited cultural competency” regarding African-Americans and never met a black person until she was in college. She says that she fears she will have to move from her small town in Ohio due to her daughter’s race and that if she does stay, she is scared her daughter will be the only non-white student at her school.

Mindfulness:
If this mother was concerned with her child's well-being in the first place and if she valued her child's well-being above anyone else's, she would not allow for the story to be all over the media.

The story is a comedy, except for the child, for the baby girl it is a tragedy.

This mother does not deserve this child.

Mindfulness:
This is a great example of acceptance and welcoming diversity that the lesbian / gay movement demands of others.

Kimoni:

Mrbrownj - lets assume we go with your theory and we pay them the 3 milla. If they come back after 5 years to get more compensation for the emotional stress they endured for the previous 5 years (after they were paid the 3 milla), would you still consider it justified to pay them?

If Yes, can we then assume we would be compensating them for as long as they live or as long as their daughter lives?

If No, on what grounds should we refuse to pay that is not applicable to the current situation?

Mindfulness:

They deserve to be given back the money they invested and nothing else in THIS CASE. This is MY opinion. My reason is that they are sending out the wrong message. They should not make an issue out of the child's skin color FOR THE CHILD'S SAKE in the first place and for reasons of political correctness in the second place.

Of course they can. Anyone can have an identity crisis but more children than not do NOT have any identity crisis if they KNOW both parents and BOTH cultures and grow up in a loving and sane environment. Like I said, mixed children often enjoy advantages because they are considered cute. And because it is en vogue in some countries to be liberal and tolerant nowadays, people will be even nicer to a mixed child than to a white child.
Their kid will have an identity crisis whether it is black, white or purple BECAUSE SHE WILL NEVER KNOW HER FATHER, whether he is black, white or purple. I have read a magazine article about kids whose mothers were fertilized in clinics and who, for this reason, never knew their biological fathers. Most of them suffer for this reason.

Yes but the hospital is not responsible for people being racist. And they can find new friends. They don't need 3 million dollars to do so.

They can apply their wisdom to a new situation. Discrimination is discrimination.

You have good arguments and one can logically take on your position but I consider it wrong for them to complain about the child's skin color and act like the skin color is such a big issue when the biggest issue is that their child will grow up NOT KNOWING HER BIOLOGICAL FATHER.

If they fear social stigma, they should not have any kids at all.

Mindfulness:
This is a great example of acceptance and welcoming diversity that the lesbian / gay movement demands of others.

Mindfulness:
If this mother was concerned with her child's well-being in the first place and if she valued her child's well-being above anyone else's, she would not allow for the story to be all over the media.
The story is a comedy, except for the child, for the baby girl it is a tragedy.
This mother does not deserve this child.

SAMBARRY:
gbam.exactly my point. The history of the child's conception will be all over the Internet. Them no even care about the psyche and well being of the child. All they are concerned with is money

SAMBARRY:
America accommodates all categories of people gay straight bisexual etc. That's why they're referred to as the land of the free and brave. Nigeria on the other hand doesn't tolerate let alone accept gay marriages

author=MRBrownJ post=37915972]
it is all about doing what you believe is RIGHT. because of negligence, the family is going to suffer and therefore someone must be held responsible. if you believe that these 2 white ladies will suffer equally whether their child is WHITE or MIXED RACE then fair enough, you have the right to your opinion. but IMHO anyone who has been wronged in such manner MUST sue the negligent clinic... and subsequently teach their children to always seek justice.

saying that all children from single parenting household suffer identity crisis is highly laughable, but this is another debate entirely

come on sista, now you are being completely off... A) who ever said that the hospital is responsible for racism in the world?! B) everyone has the right to their opinion and the hospital has NO RIGHT to enforce a mixed race child on these women (whose friends happen to be racist) if they did not desire that and C) how much do you think it cost to relocate and have new friends that you can trust etc?!

you are looking at the issue BACKWARDS and saying that it is not the clinic's fault that their friends/town is racist, and that these people should change their entire LIVES... but you forget the MAIN issue here: if the child was white (as planned) then they would be no issue, there would be no need for all these changes in order to be happy after the clinic made an error. anyone has the right to decide what friends they want to associate with and/or which town they want to live in. blaming these women for wanting a white child, that would fit perfectly in their world, is what most caring person should do.

example of the amazing things you are saying here: an Nigerian couple goes to a fertility clinic in Lagos, they desire a black child but instead a mistake was made and they end up with an albino child. so, if we all think like you do, the clinic is not responsible with the discrimination against albinos in Africa, and therefore the parents should instead move out of Africa and find a place where albinos are not discriminated upon?!?!?!?!

there are MANY form of discrimination in this world and HOW each and everyone decides to deal with one may be completely different to how they will deal with the other...

if someone lives in a society that have a great deal of single parenting household supposedly living happily then this wont be the biggest issue to these people. their biggest issue will be what THEY determine will cause the greatest harm to their family... and having a mixed race child in a racist town may be just that.

wanting the best for your family isnt against the law, right?!

MRBrownJ:


yet they should not be compensated for wanting the best for their child, while instead being wronged by a negligent clinic?!

there is nothing wrong with having this story in the media in order to let the world know what they are going through and warn others about these shaddy and negligent clinics.

they are concerned about making something (which is obviously wrong) Right!

Mindfulness:

You talk like being mixed is a punishment.

It is your choice if you want to teach your children that people must PAY for their mistakes. I prefer to teach my children acceptance, surrender and forgiveness.

I never said that.
Nobody says that the hospital has the right to enforce anything and the hospital never intended to do so but mistakes happen, they happen ALL THE TIME, even IN HOSPITALS.

They still have the choice where they want to live and who they want associate with. There are plenty of places to go and billions of people to associate with.

This child will hopefully teach them to think outside the box. I cannot feel pity for people who will have to leave back a racist community. I think, it's great!

Each case is different and must be discussed separately. This is why we have courts and this is why people study law for years.

There should be no racist towns and there would be no racist towns if people refused to accept racism. What does the mother do? She has no shame saying that her family is racist.

I am not sure they know what is the best for their family unless of course you think money is the best for them. Then ok.

Mindfulness:
What is the best for their child in this situation?

So now the clinic is shaddy?

How many mistakes do you make at work? Why do you think doctors make fewer mistakes or no mistakes? They are God?
If you ever worked in hospital or had doctors in your family, you would no that mistakes happen there all the time because negligence is HUMAN.
(Most people are negligent 98% of the time.)

Nothing is wrong. A mistake happened, that's all. The result is a healthy baby girl. If all mistakes could turn out to be like that.

MRBrownJ:


yet they should not be compensated for wanting the best for their child, while instead being wronged by a negligent clinic?!



there is nothing wrong with having this story in the media in order to let the world know what they are going through and warn others about these shaddy and negligent clinics.



they are concerned about making something (which is obviously wrong) Right!



ahahahahahahha you must be joking right?! the USA is one of the most racist countries on earth, you best believe that .... but if in doubt, check the police killings of innocent coloured people OR BETTER YET, check what Donald Trump (the possible next US president) is saying about the mexicans. land of the free and brave my foot!

MRBrownJ:


no it isnt with parents who knowingly wanted a mixed race child, BUT, it can possibly be a burden/traumatic/stressful to parents living in a racist environment, who were hoping to have a WHITE child.

i teach my children that they must stand and accept the consequences of their actions, regardless of the outcome.

so they must pay to compensate these women for their mistake.



they HAD a choice, their choice was to have a white child, and live in their community, keep their friends and have a happy family... and sadly, the clinic messed that up, big time! these women wouldnt have to change ANYTHING in their lives (community/friends etc) if the clinic had done their job RIGHT! so why shouldnt the clinic compensate them handsomely for relocation and starting a new life?!

thats your opinion (and you are entitled to it) but these women have the RIGHT to live in the community they desire, have the friends they desire or the kid they desire etc... unless it is against the law now?!

and a judge will rightfully settle this mess, created by this negligent clinic.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
let me enlighten you: i have lived and encountered racism since the day i was born. i have NEVER for once accepted it, nor the people who lived around me, yet racism has always been here. furthermore, who are you to dictate/impose your views on others? let each and everyone decide for themselves what they desire/require in life, and so long as it aint criminal or against the law, so be it! why should someone be ashamed of having an opinion?! so you want to force people into liking a certain race, even if they dont feel like it?! its their lives, their choices.

btw there is racism/racists EVERYWHERE, even in fukcing Africa.... what do you think tribalism is?! why havent tribalism disappeared since it is so easy to eradicate?

the best for the family is to make sure that their children have all the proper tools to grow as level headed young adults. tools that they may NOT have needed if the child was white.

to have the best tools in order for their child to grow up into level headed adults... and if it takes relocation and therapy sessions to achieve that, then so be it.

giving the sperm of a BLACK donor while they specifically ask for the sperm of a WHITE donor is shaddy to me! what else they have been fukcing up that the genera public and customers dont know?!

we ALL do mistakes and we ALSO must face the consequences of our actions... in some cases, a simple sorry will do, and in others it wont, and compensation for the mistakes is needed/desired. it all depends on A) who you are B) where you live and C) the type of mistake that was made.

let me clarify a few things:
1) a lot is WRONG in this story
2) a BIG mistake happened and that is NOT a small thing
3) the result (aka a healthy child) is irrelevant to the fact that this is NOT what they desired
4) the hospital should compensate them for the mistake and all the possible consequences of their error