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Did West Africans Develop Cast Iron In Pre-colonial Times? / Interesting Images From Precolonial And Early Colonial Africa / Nsibiri: The Pre-colonial Writing Of The South Eastern People (1) (2) (3) (4)
|Pre-colonial Homosexuality by redsun(m): 2:09pm On Apr 27, 2009|
Was there any kind of pre-colonial homosexuality in igbo land?As far as i know,they don't seem to be any word or instance referring to homosexuality in igbo culture.Can one rightly say it is whiteman's thing and phenomenon which as usual some of us are dutifully embracing?
|Re: Pre-colonial Homosexuality by Nobody: 5:54pm On Apr 27, 2009|
Why the Igbos? Why not other ethnic groups?
|Re: Pre-colonial Homosexuality by redsun(m): 7:24pm On Apr 27, 2009|
I am limiting it to the igbos because i am igbo by tribe and i don't know if the hausa-fulanis or the yorubas have a word or instance for it in their indigenous languages.I can vouch for the language i am born with
Don't get me wrong,i am not in any way against homosexuality but i am just trying to find out whether the concept is biologically,culturally,mentally,environmentally or racially influenced.
|Re: Pre-colonial Homosexuality by Nobody: 7:29pm On Apr 27, 2009|
It's good you are specifying that. I was afraid of another tribal fight!
|Re: Pre-colonial Homosexuality by redsun(m): 7:34pm On Apr 27, 2009|
No,not me,i see beyond tribe,i am universal.
|Re: Pre-colonial Homosexuality by ebumowa(f): 10:31pm On May 04, 2009|
Its not a "whiteman" thing, it's an attraction thing. It was commom (and still) in the Sub-Sahara parts of Africa before the colonalism. Check out this website. http://www.glbtq.com/social-sciences/africa_pre.html
Personally, I don't have nothing against people that refuse to "embrace" homosexuality, its the homophobia that comes with it that I hate. Many people say that they hate homosexuals and/or homosexuality because their religion or culture is against it, personally I think that is bulls**t because I could name alot of things that their religion or culture is against; that they practice with relish.
|Re: Pre-colonial Homosexuality by ChinenyeN(m): 10:54pm On May 04, 2009|
People and their persistent use of 'homophobia'. . .
|Re: Pre-colonial Homosexuality by Sagamite(m): 12:29pm On May 06, 2009|
Phobia = 'Unhealthy' dislike
I don't see what is unhealthy about not accepting homosexuality.
I never accept anyone calling me homophobic because that means I am accepting something is wrong with me right from the start. I am the one with a problem?
|Re: Pre-colonial Homosexuality by JustGood(m): 1:19pm On May 06, 2009|
Even if there was homosexuality in Black Africa (which no one has been able to prove with evidence), it was not prevalent as it was in Europe and America where people are allowed to do whatever they want in the name of human rights.
Its interesting how peopl will come up with some funny article written by some individual to justify his/her position and try to make such article absolutely authoritative.
|Re: Pre-colonial Homosexuality by JustGood(m): 1:21pm On May 06, 2009|
homophobia ko, homogenous ni
They use terminologies to describe anything/anyone that does not bow to their own ways but they dont coin up terminologies for their own horrible devices.
|Re: Pre-colonial Homosexuality by bawomolo(m): 8:47pm On May 06, 2009|
Phobia = 'Unhealthy' dislike
i don't think homo's want to be accepted, they just want morally righteous folks like you to leave them alone.
There is extensive evidence that homosexuality isn't a white man phenomenon
|Re: Pre-colonial Homosexuality by Sagamite(m): 10:23pm On May 06, 2009|
The reality is their situation needs acceptance in society and is not something that is left alone. And they DO want/crave to be accepted, that is the point of their intense campaign/propaganda and pugnacity in the western society despite being left alone.
Morality does play a big part in our society, more so than your nihilist principles. I am grateful that is the case.
I really don't know why you are telling me it is not a white man's phenomenon.
|Re: Pre-colonial Homosexuality by ebumowa(f): 2:39am On May 07, 2009|
Nigeria's (the continent of Africa) definition of morality is open to interpretation. We tend to define morality in a way that pleases only us.
|Re: Pre-colonial Homosexuality by Sagamite(m): 8:35am On May 07, 2009|
I disagree! This is the case not only in Nigeria/Africa but also all other countries.
Morality is usually based on subjective presupposition, as the complexity involved in analysis of human behaviour is way beyond most people's comprehension. Note, that does not mean I am saying morality cannot be based on objective presupposition.
In the West, they have defined it in the way that pleases the image of precedence (of total freedom) that they want to elude and guiltlessness that pleases them. Not particularly an objective approach.
|Re: Pre-colonial Homosexuality by lucabrasi(m): 7:42pm On May 07, 2009|
i totally and unecuivocally subscribe to the comment above,the fact that a lot of africans have a skewed sense of morality doesnt throw away the sense of right and wrong that has always been part and parcel of africa,as for homosexuals,its not african at least not in nigeria and if disagreeing with everything they stand for is a problem,then i really dont give a rat's behind,homosexuality is not only morally wrong,it is evil!!
|Re: Pre-colonial Homosexuality by biina: 12:41am On May 08, 2009|
People often seem to confuse the existence of homosexuality with the societal acceptance of homosexuals.
It is quite possible that homosexuals existed in the pre-colonial African society, but evidence strongly suggest that it has never been accepted or accommodated by the society as a whole (i.e. barring rituals and sectoral practices). Same cannot be said of societies like the Greeks who are known to have been more liberal in their cultural orientation.
|Re: Pre-colonial Homosexuality by girl22(f): 11:41pm On May 08, 2009|
homosexuality, beastiality, promiscous, racism, rape, terminal illnesses, anal sex, child abuse, animal abuse, poverty, chattel slavery, jim crow, aparthied, haulacosts, man man diseases such aids, herpes, swine flu ect, spying on people all come from europeans. not being racist just stating facts.
|Re: Pre-colonial Homosexuality by Sagamite(m): 10:38am On May 09, 2009|
|Re: Pre-colonial Homosexuality by ElRazur: 10:49am On May 09, 2009|
Homosexuality pre-date the Igbo tribe. Homosexuality is a human behaviour, and to rule it out that no one in igbo land behaved in such manner is perhaps short sighted in my opinion. But because there isn't record, and probably fear of reprisal as it isn't considered the "norm", this things may have never surfaced as a result.
On the other hand, northern cultures actually seem to have a tolerance for people who are called "Dan dawudu". These are basically, males with questionable sexual life style. Some dresses up as women, while others mimic women etc.
|Re: Pre-colonial Homosexuality by girl22(f): 7:12pm On May 10, 2009|
disprove it then.
you cannot find evidence of beastiality until the greeks. there has not been any shred of evidence of homosexuality in africa until it was introduced by the greeks into africa.
|Re: Pre-colonial Homosexuality by Sagamite(m): 7:45pm On May 10, 2009|
Do you honestly think and hope I have the time to be discussing at your level of thinking? Do you?
It was the white man that brought you rape, promiscousity, terminal illness, child abuse, slavery?
If you want to discuss you moronic views I will put you in contact with ikeyman00 and OneNaija.
Don't bloody know which schools you went to and what they thought you and what entered your head. But I think your brain is dead.
|Re: Pre-colonial Homosexuality by biina: 8:43pm On May 10, 2009|
funny but unwarranted.
Sagamite:That response does more harm. It would be more helpful if you simply pointed her to relevant sources that could educate her.
There is no point in complaining about others' point of view or reasoning, if you are unwilling to help them better themselves. Everyone looks at the world through thier own paradigm, which is essentially based on their own experiences.
If you know better, it behooves you to educate others of lesser knowledge on the issue, else to what good is your knowing better.
Your assertions are wrong
1. homosexuality: homosexuality is an individual choice, and while most societies in and outside of Africa did not accept it, there are historical evidence of the existence of homosexuals in various nations like the Egyptian kingdom. Historical records also make reference to some practices of sodomy by warlords as a supposed way of gaining spiritual authority over their opponents.
2. beastiality: Again, while not accepted by the mainstream society, bestiality has always been part of the rituals of some religious sects in Africa.
3. promiscous: Promiscuity is irrespective of race, and is only confined by as much restrain the society puts on it. Africa has always had prostitutes, concubines, and children out of wedlock. IIRC in the culture of the masai, the father of the groom is expected to sleep with the bride to confirm her virginity.
4. racism: Racism (which is essentially prejudicial treatment of another based on their ethnicity) is more common to human nature than most will admit. It is just that the white vs black case is well advertised. Racism existed within the old society, e.g. with members of minority tribes being treated as being inferior. Such differences have carried over to modern day with issues like ethnic segregation in Nigeria, or the genocide in rwanda.
5. Rape: Like stealing, existed in all societies, and is usually rampart during times of war.
6. terminal illnesses: This is a subjective term, as what is terminal some years ago, may no longer be terminal today. As humans relate across intercontinental borders, so do diseases. And while they may have given us some infections, am sure we gave them as good (if not more) than we got. For example, small pox is believed to have originated in Africa, and did much damage in Europe. Luckily the Europeans came up with a cure, which was also beneficial to us.
7. anal sex: (see 1.)
8. child abuse: Sexual intercourse with underage children has always existed in societies that marry girls of young age, and also among royal families where the prince is expected to hone his sexual skills at an early age.
9. animal abuse: Africans have always offered animals as sacrifice, and hunted them for sport, while at the same time some were held sacred.
10. poverty: Poverty is a financial state that belongs to the lowest financial class of any society.
11. chattel slavery: This is actually the primary form of slavery, as the master owns the slave, the slaves offspring and material wealth. The Europeans did not introduce slavery to Africa, they only provided a new market.
12. jim crow by definition is a law in the US and not Europe
13. apartheid : was a system of legal racial segregation enforced by the National Party government in South Africa between 1948 and 1994. and is thus localized to SA
14. holocausts: is the term generally used to describe the genocide of approximately six million European Jews during World War II, as part of a program of deliberate and systematic state-sponsored extermination planned and executed by Nazi Germany under Adolf Hitler. By definition is it limited to that event only
15. man man diseases such aids, herpes, swine flu ect: There is no such thing as a man made disease. What you have is an engineered variant. Given the level of technology, it is not yet possible for African to carry out such research, and thus one cannot state what would happen if we did. That said, there is no evidence that the diseases you listed are man made.
16. spying on people: Espionage is an essential part of governance and warfare in all societies from time immemorial. Intelligence information has always been gathered by people in power either for state use or selfish reasons.
|Re: Pre-colonial Homosexuality by bawomolo(m): 10:12pm On May 10, 2009|
homosexuality is not only morally wrong,it is evil!!
It's funny when Africans use the bible they got from the white man to determine what's not African or Nigerian.
what a bunch of gullible folks.
there has not been any shred of evidence of homosexuality in africa until it was introduced by the greeks into africa.
The greeks must have traveled deep into the heartland of africa then.
|Re: Pre-colonial Homosexuality by Sagamite(m): 12:01am On May 11, 2009|
I leave that approach to people like you and Kobojunkie.
You give them the carrots and I give them the cane. Hopefully applying both side by side will get one that works on them because I have never seen a situation where one rule works for all humans.
Also I normally go this hard on people when I feel they can not be saved anymore. I am not a faithful, I am a realist and I think they need a shock to their system that they probably never got before (lack of this probably contributed to the escalation of their stupidity). My only concern when I attack is that I hope people like this are not less than 16 years old, which is the only acceptable reason in my view for having such a low brain power.
|Re: Pre-colonial Homosexuality by girl22(f): 12:31am On May 11, 2009|
|Re: Pre-colonial Homosexuality by biina: 6:19am On May 11, 2009|
girl22:Pls see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality#Africa and references there in
Though often ignored or suppressed by European explorers and colonialists, homosexual expression in native Africa was also present and took a variety of forms. Anthropologists Stephen Murray and Will Roscoe reported that women in Lesotho engaged in socially sanctioned "long term, erotic relationships" called motsoalle. E. E. Evans-Pritchard also recorded that male Azande warriors in the northern Congo routinely took on young male lovers between the ages of twelve and twenty, who helped with household tasks and participated in intercrural sex with their older husbands. The practice had died out by the early 20th century, after Europeans had gained control of African countries, but was recounted to Evans-Pritchard by the elders to whom he spoke.
The first recorded homosexual couple in history is commonly regarded as Khnumhotep and Niankhkhnum, an Egyptian male couple, who lived around the 2400 BCE. The pair are portrayed in a nose-kissing position, the most intimate pose in Egyptian art, surrounded by what appear to be their heirs
Alexander conquered egypt in 332 BC (over 2000 years after).
Other evidence of homosexuality in ancient egypt is the story of Horus and Set
Then Set said to Horus: "Come, let us have a feast day at my house." And Horus said to him: "I will, I will." Now when evening had come, a bed was prepared for them, and they lay down together. At night, Set let his member become stuff, and he inserted it between the thighs of Horus. And Horus placed his hand between his thighs and caught the semen of Set.
Some fulanis are said to sleep with their cattle to gain firmer control over the animals. Also, among the yorubas, some sleep with animals as part of rituals to gain wealth or spiritual powers. The Europeans did not define our traditional beliefs, and in fact tried to get rid of some practices that were deemed barbaric.
Promiscuity is defined as sexual relations that is not restricted to a single partner, hence the above examples qualify
While female promiscuity has always been frowned upon in Africa and most societies, male promiscuity on the other hand is often encouraged in and outside of Africa. Yet the concern of female promiscuity was so grave in Africa that some tribes practiced female circumcision, while others resulted to spiritual means.
In pre-colonization ile- ife, (and most part of the oyo empire) rituals requiring human sacrifices were carried out using non-indegenes. Racism between african tribes is often called tribalism.
The earliest evidence of skin lesions resembling those of smallpox is found on faces of mummies from the time of the 18th and 20th Egyptian Dynasties (1570–1085 BC). The mummified head of the Egyptian pharaoh Ramses V (died 1156 BC) bears evidence of the disease. The first recorded smallpox epidemic was in 1350 BC during the Egyptian-Hittite war.
Smallpox reached Europe between the 5th and 7th centuries and was present in major European cities by the 18th century.
Slavery is almost old as civilization. Slavery is hereditary, as in the child of a slave, is also a slave, and nobody pays a slave to work . The Israelite were held as slaves for over 300yrs by the Egyptians (without pay!), and same was practiced in every part of the world (including the old kingdoms of pre-colonial Africa). Slaves rarely got their freedoms, and when they did, it was often by good fortune and not design.
In the old oyo kingdom, if you failed to pay back a loan within the set term, by de jure, you and your family automatically became slaves of the lender without redemption (tribal ties were irrelevant).
Your perception of slaves getting their freedom is a western introduction.
One does not invent apartheid as it is a Afrikaan word used to describe racial segregation .Saying Europeans invented apartheid is like saying Nigeria invented 419!
Save yourself the trouble as science is yet to create life.
Diseases can be described as infectious and non-infectious.
Non infectious diseases cannot be created as they cannot be transmitted.
Infectious diseases are caused by living organism, and unless you can create life, you cannot create a disease. What you can do is to engineer an existing pathogen.
|Re: Pre-colonial Homosexuality by agathamari(f): 7:54pm On Jul 11, 2009|
homosexuality has exist since the begining of time. there are cave paintings showing homosexuality existed in stomeage culture. animals can also be homosexual. there is one species of lizard that there are no males at all, only females (they produce clones of themselves after two of them hump eachother). all embros are female in the first few weeks then the mother produces hormones which change the ovaries into testicals, clit into a joystick and what not. if the baby recieves too much or too litle hormones or recieves them at the wrong time it can cause thier brian to behave in one gender while the body forms in another. 1 in 10 people have such a hormonal inbalance to various degrees but most people control themselves and act the way society wants them to according to thier Instruments. society swings back and forth over whether or not its acceptable. antcient greece had special military positions for these people and in some areas of the orient parents purposly raise thier children to be this way. right now society is becoming more forgiving so more are comming out into the open. there are no more or less homosexuals now then there were 3000 years ago.
|Re: Pre-colonial Homosexuality by ifele(m): 11:23pm On Jul 14, 2009|
Homosexual is just a term created to validate unnatural sex practices. Lets break the word homosexual down. Homo is latin for man. So what the creator of the
word homosexual is saying is that the effeminates and emasculates are sexual men. Men and women in natural marriages are also sexual humans because they
engage in natural marital sex so we can say they are sexual humans too. These so called homosexuals are called sodomists after Sedom and Gemorrah whose male
inhabitants practised the raping of other men and were punished by God. We cant act like God of Abraham does not exist in this matter. He is punishing a lot of
sexual deviants in many ways with pain,disease, death etc. Read the Books of Exodus and Leviticus and know what God feels about these ungodly sex practices.
Yes the pagans practised all sorts of immoral sex during pre-colonial times becos of the pagan and evil spirit influences. Even now some still continue in those
immoral sex acts becos of modern, local and foreign influences. Just say No to sexual immorality and ungodly marriages and you will be free from satan's
|Re: Pre-colonial Homosexuality by agathamari(f): 1:22pm On Jul 15, 2009|
that is the same mentality that led to the black plauge. the pope at that time took the bible to extremes and forbid christians from bathing because they would go to hell if they were Unclad. the church relaxed after the plauge to say you could bathe one a month (where the phrase dont through the baby out with the bath water came from) latter repealed the command completely. the bible is a guide not and order
|Re: Pre-colonial Homosexuality by BashiruB: 1:10pm On Apr 14, 2011|
Lets me contribute my two cents to this discussion. I hope you guys keep an open mind and respond politely if you wish. The issue of homosexuality is a complex yet it is not supposed to be so complex. Like they say, you cannot understand another man's situation if you have not walked in his shoes. And if you are heterosexual, you can never understand the struggles and experiences of a homosexual person. I just hope that you will try to put yourself in those shoes for a minute while you read this. The most important thing I want you to do is to keep an open mind and not equate homosexuality with just a sexual act. Afterall, when you think of heterosexuality, you dont think of sex. You think feelings, love, the need for human companionship and maybe sex down the line. But sex is not the building block. In the same vein, a 15 year -old boy may discover that he only has same sex feelings but he never actually engages in same sex activity all his life as he enters the priesthood. That doesnt make him any less gay. He was gay at 15 and he will be gay all his life. that he never engages in the a sexual act doesnt change who you are attracted to. Or do you think priests and reverend sisters and 12 year old kids are asexual? Ofcourse not. You may not be engaged in sex, but it doesnt mean you do not have a sexual orientation. Its either gay or straight. So please lets disentangle this discourse from sexual intercourse. Its about who you are drawn to emotionally, physically and spiritually.
First and foremost, I believe the cardinal bone of contention here is that most people find it had to believe that people are born gay. The real question is, Are people born heterosexual? If you believe that you were born heterosexual then do you think it is possible that some people were born gay? I want to assume that if you are straight that there was never a point in your life when you were attracted to both males and females; after which you then decided to choose the opposite sex. Did you ever get to make that conscious choice? I doubt it. Then why do you think that a gay person was given that choice by God? Why would anybody ever choose to be attracted to the same sex when he knows the price that he will pay in society? The risks are numerous- your family will disown you in a heartbeat, all your friends will abandon you and any hope for a real fulfilling future is gone; all because for no reason, you hit puberty and you discover that you are different.
If you are straight, you may not understand this. But I assume that if you are a guy that around the age of 11-12, you started becoming interested in girls. That is normal at puberty. Imagine if at that age you find yourself with no attraction whatsoever to the opposite sex, but only to your own sex. That is the reality of a gay person. You try to fight it. You try to go to all the church deliverances and say all the prayers and promise God everything if only he will just take it away- If only he will just make you normal. Believe me, that is the only prayer of gay people. You try hard to keep the secret and you also are afraid that if anybody finds out the secret, that you may be mobbed in a heartbeat. It is hard enough for a heterosexual teenage boy to stay focused in school and stuff because hormones are raging and you want to chyke guys and all. Imagine how much harder it is for gay people when you know that what you have is what Oscar Wilde called 'the love that dare not speak its name'. You can't tell anyone about it. You just live with your secret into your twenties. Some are bold enough to carry on with secret relationships with their peers just like their heterosexual mates are doing. Others torture themselves everyday because they cannot reconcile what they feel inside with what their religion and society has told them that they should feel. Its no wonder that the rates of teenage depression, suicide and all is so high. In the US, teenage suicide among gay teens is 7 times what it is in heterosexual teens- This means that for every 100 suicides among teenagers, more than 80 of these will be gay teens - usually those struggling to come to terms with their sexuality or experiencing rejection or discrimination from their friends and families. Do you think 14, 15 year old teenagers will want to kill themselves over something they could change? Think again. Do you know the kind of emotional turmoil that a gay person must be in to think that the best solution is to take your life and just escape this earth and its hardship? I'm sure you cant begin to imagine this. But like I said, try and walk in the homosexuals shoes for a minute because unless you can do this you will never understand his life experiences.
But then, you are a human being- with hormones and real feelings. Just like a 15 or 16 year old boy would see a girl in his class and like to 'toast' her, there also gay people who are surrounded by people that they are attracted to- but who they dont want to be attracted to. Its simple biology. Every human being has the capacity to love and be loved. But people do not control the sex they are attracted to. If you are straight and think it is a choice, I bet that If I offer you a billion dollars to turn gay, that you will not be able to. And by turning gay i mean that you will be genuinely attracted emotionally, psychologically, spiritually and then physically to someone of your same sex. Believe me, you cannot do it. Why? Because you were not born that way. It is the same way for people who are gay. They have tried and tried and begged God and done everything but it doesnt go away. Most importantly, most gay people do not have the natural attraction to the opposite sex - so what should they do? They just cannot connect emotionally, spiritually and physically to the opposite sex as they can to their own sex. Its plain and simple. It would be easier for some if they had a natural capacity to like both sexes- truly Bisexual people have that capacity and so they can swing both ways naturally. But for most gay people, they are forced by societal and religious pressure to go into heterosexual relationships that they are not naturaly equipped to go into.
In Nigeria, we dont even acknowledge the existence of homosexuality and so I'm sure that we may have no statistics on the magnitude of this issue. If we are to go by what the researchers say, 2-5 % of every population is gay. Every population means every population and not just Western population like we want to believe. In other accounts, this proportion is closer to 10%. This will mean that close to 15 million Nigerian are most likely gay. Gay people seem to be non-existent because in truth, heterosexuals are about 80-90% of people and they will always be the majority. Its just the way nature works. As the most populous black nation on earth, it also means that we have the highest concentration of black gay people on this earth. I am not saying this to alarm you, but it is just a reality of life and nature that will shock you probably because you may think that you dont know too many gay people personally. But then, who in his right sense will tell another person in Nigeria that he is gay. People just carry on with their secret affairs and pretend that everything is ok. We are a nation that is notorious for hidding things under the basket.
Most gay people go ahead and get married. For most of them, they may like and even learn to LOVE their spouses, but they will never be IN LOVE with their spouses because they can never connect on that level with them. And I believe that every one deserves to be with someone that is truly IN LOVE with them and not someone that is using them as a cover for the busy-body Nigerian society that will begin to wonder why this middle-aged Nigerian man is not married. If you are woman, you want a man that loves you completely and you will be utterly heartbroken to find out that your husband is gay and is having affairs with men outside. Yes, with men. A married gay man will not have affairs with women, it is with men- because it is men that he is truly attracted to and their is nothing that his 'poor' wife can do to change his biology or to give him emotional and yes- sexual, satisfaction. And believe me sexual satisfaction is a big part of every relationship- gay or straight. Most importantly, his poor wife will not be genuinely loved and may not have a fulfilling sex life because the man is not genuinely attracted to her. So we have an innocent woman who is trapped in a loveless marriage with a man who may contract an STD anytime if he is not careful. This is what they call the 'Down low syndrome' among African American communities- gay men who are forced to live straight live and have wives and girlfriends. Believe me, this scenario I just recounted is living and thriving in our own Naija as it is in all parts of the world. In more open cities like Lagos, there is a thriving gay prostitution scene where 'respectable' men go to satisfy their passions. Some men, enter into long term relationships with their 'buddies' while still keeping their wives. Secrets, Secrets and Lies everywhere. I'll use the handedness analogy for this issue because it is very appropriate. About 10% of people are born left-handed while 90% are born right-handed. Its an in-born thing which in times past was seen as an abomination. There were times when left-handed people were persecuted and killed (you can do your research on this). In Nigeria now, left-handed kids still have it tough. Most parents try to change their kids and most parent succeed in making them learn to use their right hands. Still, those kids never truly lose the function of their left hands. They just learn to become ambidextrous and they learn to write and eat and take stuff from their elders with their right hands. But after all said and done, they are all still most comfortable with the left and always resort to it when no one is looking or when they are all grown up. For a small percentage, they will never learn to use their right hands and they are the ones whom their parents will always flog. Still, they never are able to learn it. Its just their nature. It is that way with gay people. You may force yourself out of societal pressure to be with the opposite sex but you never truly loose your attraction for your own sex. Most times, this leads to cheating in marriages. For the small percentage of gay men and women who cannot even fake an attaction to the opposite sex, there are like the perpetual left-handers- unable to conform to society's expectation, not out of their own stubbornness but because of how God created them
Who do we blame for this kind of double life? It is easy to blame the gay man or woman, but then we should ask ourselves- what role do we play in cultivating this kind of double life? Isnt society to blame for being so hostile to the idea of homosexuality that people are forced to live in the closet and deny an essential part of themselves? I'll tell you this, if you know anybody that is openly gay in Nigeria and has chosen not to marry but to be honest with themselves, you should go up to them and give them a handshake. Because they have defied all the pressure from religion and society to do the honorable thing and live life with dignity instead of deceiving an innocent person into marriage. They are the ones that have chosen to obey their consciences and be honest. Most importantly, for that gay married person, can you imagine how unhappy his life is. Knowing that you have to lie everyday and that you cannot truly be yourself or be with someone you may truly love because of society. Its a hopeless situation and thing can only begin to get better when people realise that the gay person cannot change to a heterosexual anymore than the heterosexual can turn gay. People are just made that way by God for his own reasons and it does not go away anymore than a heterosexual person suddenly stops being heterosexual. Once we learn this truth, we can begin to accept people for what they are and then they may feel comfortable living honest lives. But we cannot expect people to acknowledge their homosexuality when we as a society will want to treat them as second class citizens.
As a gay Christians will tell you, they have made peace with themselves and they know that God loves them the way they are. They do not consider a same-sex loving couple in a monogamous relationship to be a sin and I dont either. By this relationship, I mean 2 people of the same sex who are comlpletely devoted to each other and have chosen to build a life together. In some countries in the West and even in South Africa, they are legally married and some of them have biological or adopted kids and are as normal as every family. The only difference is that both partners are of the same sex. And please get your head out of the gutter and dont think about what they do in bed or how they do it in bed because it is not anybody's business what happens in the confines on one's bed chambers. This may seem silly to some of you but I ask you to read on. First and foremost, I want you to use you brain because God gave it to to you for a reason - to think independently and make up your mind on issues. Ignore whatever you have been told that the Bible said and look for God's answers on your own. Now, there is a school of thought that says that Biblical interpretation should be taken literally- that is, just exactly the way it is written in the Bible, while there is a second school of thought that says that you should look at everything said in the Bible in the context of the times in which it was written. i belong to the second school of thought.
Let me begin by saying that we all know that people say that the Bible is the 'word' of God. I agree that the Bible was inspired by God; but it was not written by God. It was written by inspired men who wrote in their own 'words' and not God's exact 'words'. This men wrote within their own socio-cultural context and this is abundant when we consider the things in the bible that we ignore today because it doesnt make sense in our time. The literalist will always throw the passages in Leviticus that say that a man must not lie with another man because it is an abomination. However, the literalist also tries to forget verses in that same Leviticus that say that if a woman is not a virgin on her wedding night, that she should be taken back to her father's house and stoned to death; and that a disobedient child should also be stoned to death. This same Leviticus said that it was an abomination to mix two types of fabrics together. It also calls it an abomination to eat shellfish. And the list goes on and on, It called all these things an abomination. Yet today, we all eat shellfish, we all wear ankara and brocade in the same cloth and we all eat shellfish. Most girls are not virgins when they get married and their husbands do not return then to their fathers and stone them to death. Why then do we persist in
hurling these passages at gay people. These portions of the bible make it clear that the people that wrote it did so in line with their own cultural practices thousands of years ago. In this age and time, some of those passage will be seen as sexist and child abuse.
Now, we know that the Bible was not written in English. Infact the Bible as we know it was not compiled in its original language until hundreds of years after the death of Christ when the Church decided to put together a Holy Book based on religious writings. Of course by then there were so any writings. These writing were mostly stories handed down by word of mouth and passages by the early Christians to successive generations. By around 400 years after the death of Christ when the Vulgate bible was compiled, there were a lot of books written and it was up to a select committee of men to choose and decide which books will make it into what we now know as the Bible. Out of thousands of books, they choose the 66 books that we now know as the Bible. Or do you think that it was only Matthew, Mark, luke and John that told stories about Jesus and had it written into books? There were many other Gospels. There is the Gospel of Thomas, Gospel of Barnabas,Gospel of Truth, Gospel of Peter, Gospel of Mary and the list goes on. Why werent these ones selected? The point I am trying to make is that the assembling of the Bible as we know it was done by human beings like you and me with their own guiding philosophies and interests and so it makes no sense when someone assumes a literalist stance and says that the Bible provides the answer to everything that is God's will.
Now we know that the bible is full of passages that make it clear that the place of a woman in society is akin to that of a man's property. She is to be seen and not to be heard. A man could marry plenty wives in the Bible and nothing was wrong with that- Moses was married to Sarah and still sired a child through her maid, Solomon had hundreds of wives. This was normal in their time, but in this age and time, we do not subscribe to those beliefs because we whether we like it or not, we agree that the bible is context specific and that those things that were acceptable in that culture do not apply now. Just look at the high rate of divorces everywhere and you will agree that we are not following the bible to the letter. Now it stands to reason that if women were invited to the table when the final 66 books of the Bible were being out together, that there will have been some protest against some books that expressly permit discrimination against women. For example, we have a place in the new testament that says that women should not speak in a place of worship and should instead sit and listen. Up till date, some churches still use that to ban the adoption of women into the clergy. But tell me, do you think that a woman who is spirit-filled is any less an instrument of God than a man? There are numerous instance where the Bible has been used to denigrate a particular group- whether women, slaves or homosexuals. But i bet that if people fro any of these groups were present during the final compilation of the Bible, that the parts of the Bible that harm them will not have made it into the final draft. My point- the Bible is a book inspired by God but written by man and put together by man to reflect his peculiar leaning. My point- Learn to look at things for yourself and question a bit- Because as someone said, it is only by questioning your faith that you van find a deeper faith.
We know from the translation of the Bible over two thousand years that it has been through many languages. The original languages in which it was first transcribed are mostly non-existent now. And we also know that the 'homosexuality' did not appear in the English bible until about 1949. Before then, most translations referred to some of the verses as male prostitution and co. It is no surprise that homosexuality as we know it today- a loving relationship between people of the same sex, was not written of in the bible because the Biblical writers did not have any concept of sexuality or same-gender loving relationships like we have today. How can the bible then condemn homosexuality when the word didnt make it way in there until about 2,000 years later. it is in the same way that we dont expect the Bible to give us answers to issues like Nuclear energy or assisted reproduction techniques or Information technology because in the biblical times, they had no concept of this.
To be sure, the bible condemned male prostitution- just as it did for female prostitution. And it is this word that many biblical scholars feel have been mutated over time to no become homosexuality in the bible. But then, how does male prostitution equate with a present-day same gender-loving relationship like we know it to be today where you have partners that are committed to themselves physically and emotionally just as heterosexuals are?
And to be sue too, Paul condemns people who have given up their 'natural' desires to pursue the same sex. The only thing is that for the homosexual, what is 'natural' is attraction to the same sex. Being with an opposite sex partner to the gay person is as unnatural as forcing a heterosexual to sleep with someone of the same sex. The level of revulsion is the same. The only difference is that society forces the homosexual to effectively 'rape' himself/herself, go against his nature and do it. It is not a surprise that Paul felt that people were giving up their natural desires. Afterall, the concept of sexuality as we know it today was not their in his time. And so I'm sure that he assumed that it was only the kind of desires he had that were the 'natural' ones. In that way, he is no different than you the reader or most heterosexuals who always wonder what the f*** is wrong with gay people? Why would they give up what you have and that which you assume is natural to most people- heterosexuality, to pursue homosexuality? The answer boils down to what I have said earlier- if you have not lived in a gay person's body and gone through what he has gone through- the hormones, the exclusive same-sex feelings, the utter absence of opposite-sex attraction throughout life, then who are you to tell him that his feelings are not 'natural'? It is just like telling a left-handed child that his 'bad' habit is not natural and that he should stop it. This a very telling analogy because almost all gay people who speak truthfully say that they have always known that they were different. Some know as early as 7-8 years in life. They might not have the word for it at that age and they certainly are not engaging in any sexual activity at that age, but they do know that the way they feel about people of their own sex is not quite 'normal'. So to base the condemnation of homosexuality on what St. Paul has said would be not to use our God-given intelligence to think for ourselves. if God created some people homosexual, then how can we say that their desires are unnatural?
Some people try to say that homosexuality is mostly environmental and that people who may have been abused sexually or had absent parental figures are the ones at risk. This is utter garbage. Did you become heterosexual because you were abused by an opposite sex uncle or aunt? Did the environment really have anything to do with your sexuality or did you just hit puberty and found it there? Afterall, almost every homosexual was raised in an home by a mother and a father and if environmental influences are the strongest, then the child should have learnt from his parent's example and also become heterosexual. Infact, I dont believe there is any gay family in Nigeria, why then do we still have homosexuals in our society? This brings me to the issue of the arguement against gay parenting. People say that if homosexuality and hay marriage and parenting becomes allowed, that children will be turned gay in those families. How so? Parents have no influence on the sexual orientation of their children and gay parents are not any more likely to raise gay kids than straight parents. Afterall, most of the gay parents were raised by straight parents and they still turned out gay! Go figure!
The most common Biblical portion used against homosexuality is the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. The popular assumption is that the city was destroyed solely because of homosexuality. This cannot be further away from the truth. God saw the iniquities of Sodom- their greed, lust, wickedness and all. Sodom was a very rich city but they had given themselves unto wickedness. Because of their wealth and wickedness, there were notoriously territorial and did not let people into their city lest they try to tap into the source of their wealth. God saw all this and wanted to destroy them but he instead decided to send his angels to see for themselves. Keep in mind that ab initio, God wanted to destroy them- which was why he told Abraham later in the Bible that if he had seen even just ten righteous men in all the city of Sodom, that he would have spared the city. Back to the story. So the angels were welcomed to Lots house but as soon as the men of the city heard that they had visitors in the city, they demanded that they be brought out to them. It was there in-hospitality and wickedness that made them demand that the angels be brought out to them so that they could 'know' them. This means to forcibly rape them. S we have a mob of maybe hundreds of men who men who want to gang rape three angels. Why? It wasn't because of homosexuality as we know it today - a loving relationship between two men. It was because of their inhospitality and their greed -to protect their city's wealth, that they would not let strangers into their city. It was because of this that they wanted to humiliate the strangers by forcibly gang raping them- to teach them a lesson so that they dare not come back. Afterall, what is more humiliating than gang-raping a man. It was sure to serve as a deterrent to future visitors who may want to come there for their wealth. Lot pleaded with them and even offered up his own daughters but they refused. They wanted the men(angels) in Lot's house. Now tell me, do you think that the gang of men were so sex-crazed that they just all wanted to 'make love' to these three men out of all the men and women in that city at the same time? Definitely not. They wanted to RAPE them. That was their sin. That was the sin of Sodom in that instance- Rape, Humiliation, Inhospitality. Added to this, is their wickedness and other sins that made God send down his angels to come and survey things for themselves first hand. These were all the sins of Sodom and that is why the city was destroyed. Not because of Homosexuality. or do you think that if instead of the gang of men requesting for the male angels, but requesting for females instead that the city would be spared? No. The city would still have been destroyed even if it was women that wanted to rape. So please, lets open our minds to the real truth why Sodom was destroyed and not equate it with homosexuality- which is simply two people who are attracted to each other, fall in love and just want happily ever after like every heterosexual wants.
I know that some of you have looked at the story of Sodom in this way before because you haven't taken the time to do your own studies and research. Or because you have always been told by your pastor and everyone around you that Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed for homosexuality. Well think again! People have always distorted their interpretation of the bible for their own selfish means. Afterall, the bible was used over the years to subjugate women and treat them like second class citizens. And yes they are biblical passages that support this treatment, but does that make it right? Is a woman any less than a man because of an accident of birth? And to believe that up till the 1920's that women did not have the right to vote in the US or in many other countries and couldn't own property. Even in Nigeria today, women cannot own property in some places if their husbands die. And believe me, the bible was used over the years to support this kind of treatment. It is no different for homosexuals. The Bible has been used by people to condemn them- people who dont understand their unique struggles. the Bible has always been used to condemn the minority and the weaker groups.
It was this same Bible that was used to justify slavery by the White man over more than 200 years. And yes there are passages which clearly support slavery. This continued until the 1960's in the US when the Black man got the right to vote. This continued until the 1990's in South Africa when Apartheid was abolished. The bible was used to support the inferiority of the Black race and that was why this all happened. The bible was also used to prevent Interracial marriages between blacks and whites in the US up till the 1970s because an inferior and a superior race are not supposed to mix. Dear Nairalander, so much iniquity has been committed against minority and oppressed groups in the name of the bible, yet today, we ignore those parts of the bible because event though they might applied in the old times, they dont apply in our time.
It is amazing how our Lord Jesus never said a word regarding homosexuality. All he preached all his life was love. Love your God and Love your neighbour. No condemnation. No judgements. Just do the right thing and be true to your conscience. And believe me, there is nothing more damning to the conscience of a homosexual as faking love and attraction to the opposite sex so that he can get married and escape societies expectations and all. It is damning to his soul because deep down, he knows that he is not only sinning against his conscience and God, he is also sinning against the innocent partner that has been brought into the marriage or relationship. The homosexual harbours his secret and it slowly eats him up. The quality of his relationship with his spouse can never be perfect because there is a secret there- the foundation of the relationship is built on lies. This makes it easier to tell more lies and keep more secrets in the marriage. In truth, closeted gay people (like most Nigerians) have not true friends. They are there own best friends and the keeper of the secrets. Afterall, how can you say you have a friend when you are not even able to talk with that friend about your true crush? Or share details about your true feelings? Friendships are formed by sharing and the closeted homosexual has learnt through life to shut himself off and just keep his struggles buried deep. The closet is a place of great sorrow- for the person . It is also a terrible thing because of the collateral damage that follows it.
My write-up has become too lengthy and if you are still reading up to this point, then you must be a strong 'pesin'. All I hope I have accomplished is to make you see things from a different lens - the lens of a christian who is questioning and seeking a deeper faith on this issue; the lens of a concerned person who may not be homosexual but can for a second put himself in those shoes. There will always be those 10% of people in every society that are gay - this has been so since the creation of man and it will continue to be so. The same way that there is homosexuality in a certain percentage of animals too. It is as natural as heterosexuality. Its just part of God's variety- the same way left-handed people are. The question is what do as a society do with and for them? Do we acknowledge them and make it easier for them to lead honest and productive lives or are we going to discriminate and make them go further in the closet and deny their true selves? - That is the question.
Thank you for reading and I hope you take out time to think things through for yourself and discover your own truth. Why? Because you dont know who amongst you is gay- It may be your closest brother; it may be that your female friend that is always kind to you; it may be your Father who even cheated on your mother once early in the marriage before you were born; it may be that 40-something year old handsome lawyer that you always see drive past in his Jeep and you wonder why he is still single; it may be your husband who is usually sexually and emotionally aloof and likes to spend time with his best buddy instead. Most importantly - it could be your child. He may still be be a baby now but he already has a sexuality and in 10 to 15 years, he will become aware of it. It could be anybody- 'e no dey show for face'. Gay people come in all shapes and sizes, fro the the most macho to the effeminate; from the most educated and responsible to the lowlife - there are no stereotypes. So please drop all your misconceptions and think of these people as human beings- deserving of your Christian love, understanding and acceptance; just the way they are.
|Re: Pre-colonial Homosexuality by aribisala0(m): 9:53pm On Apr 14, 2011|
a rather lengthy and tangential response.
the issue is homosexuality in precolonial times.
it is considered taboo now and it would have then.the absence of a word for it does not mean it did not occur.did men bugger their wives,masturbate or perform cunnylicky?probably.what are the words for this.
somebody mentioned homosexualityandreligion sects
could you provide a reference please
regarding homophobia a lot of men have no problem with lesssbianism or lessbbiann porn but react violently to male homosexuality. there are theories that the often disproportionate moral indignation derives from a fear of looking in the psychological mirror
|Re: Pre-colonial Homosexuality by ChinenyeN(m): 10:14pm On Apr 14, 2011|
Why are people so hung up on gays anyway? That 'homophobia' term pisses me off; damn liberals just trying to score cheap and illegitimate political points.
aribisala0:Psychologists and their bullshit.
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