MrOlai:


You must be a joker! Sheik Ibn Taymiyyah (Rahimahullah) you consider a kafir! You still have the gut to use his statements to defend yourself!

AlBaqir:

[size=25pt]Reference(s) please?![/size]

Abuamam:

I might add that the Rafidha also attribute Godly characteristics to their 12 Imams, such as omniscience and omnipotence. They also seek 'blessings' by praying to graves and shrines; many of which are acts of the pre-Islamic days of ignorance.

AlBaqir:

[size=25pt]Reference(s) please?![/size]

Abuamam:

They however, have a practice; which non-Muslims falsely try to foist on all Muslims, called the taqiyyah . This involves lying as an act of faith, to deceive their perceived opponents into believing their outward exhibition of conformity with some orthodox sunni Islam beliefs. Many of their lay adherents are therefore, ignorant of most of their real beliefs, for example, they would say that they have no other Quran; but the books written by their scholars refute these denials.
Allah knows best.

AlBaqir:


Anyway dear brother let this fool, MrOlai, continue his stupidity.

hollaytan:
@mr ola and albaqir, what example are you laying by using foul and derogatory words on each other?

hollaytan:
@mr ola and albaqir, what example are you laying by using foul and derogatory words on each other? are you both following the teachings of the holy prophet (sws), if peradventure a Christian stumbled on this thread and see your arguments dont you think they will be laughing at we muslims. you brothers are battering each other because your argument is going out of the line. The holy prophet wept because of islam in the end time, is this not part of what he was saying. either sunni or shia follow the qur'an and the teachings of the prophet. Nothing like sect in Islam for Allah only recognizes those who follow his will and the prophet true muslims. So sunni and shia you now see the differences in yourselves?? follow the sunnah

Empiree:
Lol, Mrolai, anytime you start to go gugu-gaga on Shia's practices, you don't usually complete the task before you jump on another one.

Does that mean you don't have enough resources to put up with AlBaqir

Anyways, I think you, mr fundamental, a self proclaimed "sheikul-islam" of NL and albaqir should observe what hollaytan said up there.

But I understand the pressure though.

Empiree:
HAkorehdeh would just hit "Like & Share". He doesn't give a fig leaf

@albaqir, I guess that's sunni's norms and regulations. I personally see no issue with that. The whole idea of the meanings of those arabic phrases boiled down to "PEACE BE UPON THEM".

This English translation just sums up the whole things. I can understand arabic meanings depth variably.

HAkorehdeh:
Lol bro... I like to remain a silent reader, gracing all posts i find appealing to me with my 'likes and shares'. I'm no Shia but i really respect 'maturity and patience in arguments". I believe no one here is a teenager (.... .. ) even teenagers will always try to prove maturity..

It's better we learn how to respect our different opinions, read/watch before criticizing. I hope we find a better representative of Ahlus sunnah wal jama'aah soon cuz some bro(s) here are just 'falling my hands'.
I'm a good fan of you too sir.

AlBaqir:

[size=25pt]Reference(s) please?![/size]

Abuamam:

The Shi'ite sect was originally a political offshoot that felt that Ali bin abi Talib (ra); the cousin of the prophet (saw), should have been the Caliph after the prophet (saw). Some accepted the rule of the first 3 caliphs and supported Ali against Muawiyyah, who had issues with him... hence the name; Shi'at Ali or group for Ali.

At that time, they did not have a seperate faith or tenets or religious beliefs... except for the political issue, you know, like a PDP, APC thing; only much worse.


Later on, after the death of both Ali and Muawiyyah, they pledged allegiance to the descendants of the prophet (saw), until Hasan his grandson abdicated the rule, and Hussain his younger grandson was murdered by the people living in Kufa in Iraq, after enticing him with promise of support. Even then, the Shi'a were still only political.


The matter came to a head when some Shi'a offered support to Zayd bin Ali bin Hussain bin Ali, a great grandson of Ali, to take the rulership of the Muslim nation. The Shi'a split into 2. Some refused to support him because he refused to denounce Abu bakr and Umar; the first 2 rulers. Hence Zayd referred to them as Rafidha or Rejecters. They make up the majority of the Shi'a today, and are found in Iran, the gulf countries and Lebanon.


Those that accepted to support Zayd bin Ali bin Hussain, became known as Zaydis and are found in Yemen (the houthis). There are other Shi'a sect offshoots like the batiniyyah, the Ismailiyyah, the alawites, the baha'is, the babis, the druze even the ahmadiyyah...etc etc dozens.


The Rafidha (also known as the twelver imams), now started to create a new system of faith, with their own hadith which they imputed falsely to the descendants of the prophet (saw), until all members of the line; which they claimed to be 'Imams'; passed away; upon which they attributed an imaginary son to the last of them; who actually died childless; and claimed that this son was 'hidden secretely' with the true copy of their own Quran, and would only emerge in the last days to lead them to victory.


Some of their founders; due to extreme hatred of the companions who transmitted the deen to us; rejected almost all the companions; and the wives of the prophet (saw) as kuffar, or hypocrites. Naturally, to them, this meant that everything that the companions transmitted to us as Islam was criticized as a lie; even the Quran; which they claimed had been changed and corrupted to cover up their cardinal doctrine of twelve Imams.


They however, have a practice; which non-Muslims falsely try to foist on all Muslims, called the taqiyyah. This involves lying as an act of faith, to deceive their perceived opponents into believing their outward exhibition of conformity with some orthodox sunni Islam beliefs. Many of their lay adherents are therefore, ignorant of most of their real beliefs, for example, they would say that they have no other Quran; but the books written by their scholars refute these denials.


I might add that the Rafidha also attribute Godly characteristics to their 12 Imams, such as omniscience and omnipotence. They also seek 'blessings' by praying to graves and shrines; many of which are acts of the pre-Islamic days of ignorance.


The Ashura day on which the Prophet(SWT) recommended fasting for the Muslims, the shia use it in commemoration of the murder of Hussain bin Ali, wherein they gather together in their 'Hussainiyyat', recite emotional (often exaggerated) narratives of the tragedy, and sometimes whip and slash themselves with swords and knives... thinking that they are seeking Allah's pleasure by doing so.
Today, this is the dominant sect of Shi'a.
Allah knows best.

AlBaqir:

[size=25pt]Reference(s) please?![/size]

Empiree:

It's no news in America's sin city aka Las Vegas, where Saudi royals frequent and parade "oloshos". Some Americans are quiet aware of this. Why is this not considered making islam look black?

MrOlai:


Evil would always remain evil. This in itself, if true, is an evil that would give Islam bad name.

MrOlai:


Evil would always remain evil. This in itself, if true, is an evil that would give Islam bad name.

dragnet:

you're really here exchanging words with a Sufi & a Shia? you should know better. All they wana do is win the debate/argument and guidance doesn't come from such.

Empiree:
That's it. That's why unnecessary criticism of shia on this subject of mutah doesn't make sense to me. All you have to do is search net for wide varieties news articles and eye witnesses I wish I can upload a guy who made few minutes speech on it.

vedaxcool:


Comparing Mutah which is suppose to be Halal on one hand by Shia [that is] with zina that both shia and sunnis label as haram really does help achieve the false equivalence you are trying to achieve, it will have made sense if Ola was accusing Shia of committing zina that other do. The point of Mutah is the perception that it is halal, a marriage system that should be rejected because even the child born from such a "marriage"is almost more a less a bastard. That is the issue being discussed, if muslims were angel we wouldn't really be on earth, Saudis committing fornication in LA can easily be condemned because Islam reject such, but someone who does Mutah every 1 hour will have a case to make because to him he has done no wrong! I hope you get the point being made!

AlBaqir:

To Mr Empiree, your own conclusion on this issue is that its a Sunni-Shi'i usual sectarian differences. And the fact that Sunni practices Misyar Nikkah, they simply don't have the right to blame Shia practicing Mutah. That seem philosophical but am sorry its not.
Sunni invention is called al-Zawaj bi niyyah al-talaq (marriage with the intention of divorce). It is later modified to Misyar Nikkah [Traveler's marriage].

AlBaqir:

MrOlai and Mr vedaxcool, your conclusion in short, is that mutah is FORNICATION. And there is no doubt fornication is HARAM in Islam.
# Please did Islam ever at one time legislated fornication before forbidden it?
Mutah is agreed upon by Sunni and Shia to have been legislated by Allah and His prophet. The point of our differences is on its abrogation.
One of Sunni grand Imam, Ibn Hazm (d. 456 H) writes:
"A group of the Salaf, may Allah be pleased with them, were FIRM in declaring it (Mutah) HALAL AFTER the Messenger of Allah. Those of them from the SAHABAH, may Allah be pleased with them, were Asma bint Abi Bakr al-siddiq, Jabir b. Abd Allah, Ibn Mas'ud, Ibn Abbas, Mu'awiyah b. Abi Sufyan, Amr b. Hurayth, Abu Sa'id al-Khudri, and Salamah and Ma'bad - sons of Umayyah b. Khalaf.
Jabir b. Abd Allah also reported it (i.e declaration of Mutah as halal) from all the Sahabah during the time of the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, and during the time of Abu Bakr and Umar until near the end of the caliphate of Umar. Ibn al-Zubayr had contradictory opinions on its permissibility, while Ali expressed no opinion concerning it. It is narrated that Umar b. al-Khattab only denied it if two just people did not act as its witnesses, and he considered it permissible if two just people acted as witnesses to it.
Among the Tabi'in were: Tawus, 'Ata, Sa'id b. Jubayr, and the rest of the Jurists of Makkah, may Allah honour it."
Ref: Abu Muhammad Ali b. Ahmad b. Sa'id b. Hazm al-Andalusi al-Qurtubi al-Zahiri, al-Muhallah (Dar al-Fikr li al-Taba'ah wa al-Nashr wa al-Tawzi), vol.9, p.519-520
For confirmation of some of Ibn Hazm's submissions:
# Imam 'Abd al-Razzaq (d. 211H) reports:
'Abd al-Razzaq - Ibn Jurayj - Abu al-Zubayr - Jabir b. Abd Allah:
"We, the Sahabah of the Prophet, peace be upon him, did Mutah UNTIL the prohibition of 'Amr b. Hurayth (from it)"
Ref: Abu Bakr Abd al-Razzaq b. Hamam al-Sa'nani, al-Musannaf [annotator: Habib al-Rahman al-A'zami], vol.7, p.499, #14025
# Imam Abd al-Razzaq continues in another riwayah:
'Abd al-Razzaq - Ibn Jurayj - Abu al-Zubayr - Jabir b. Abd Allah:
Amr b. Hurayth arrived from Kufah and did Mutah with a slave woman. Then, she was brought to Umar when she became pregnant, and he interrogated her. So, she said, "Amr b. Hurayth did Mutah with me." He (Umar) said, "So, why not other than her (a slave)?" That was the moment when he (Umar) forbade it.
Ref: Abu Bakr Abd al-Razzaq b. Hamam al-Sa'nani, al-Musannaf [annotator: Habib al-Rahman al-A'zami], vol.7, p.500, #14029.
So, obviously according to your emotional theories, all these Salafs were bunch of FORNICATORS.
Just to add, the fact that Umar forbade it, never stops "a deviant fornicator (in your view)" like Abd Allah Ibn Abbas from practicing it.
Allamah al-Albani writes:
"The summary is: three opinions are narrated from Ibn Abbas, may Allaah be pleased with him, about Mutah:
The one: he permitted it unconditionally.
The second: he permitted it in cases of necessity.
The last: he forbade it unconditionally, but this is from what is NOT authentically transmitted from him, unlike the first two opinions which are authentically transmitted from him"
Ref: {Irwa al-Ghalil fi Takhrij Ahadith Manar al-Sabil (Beirut: al-Maktab al-Islami; 2nd edition, 1405 H), vol. 6, p. 319, # 1903}
To Mr Empiree, your own conclusion on this issue is that its a Sunni-Shi'i usual sectarian differences. And the fact that Sunni practices Misyar Nikkah, they simply don't have the right to blame Shia practicing Mutah. That seem philosophical but am sorry its not.
Sunni invention is called al-Zawaj bi niyyah al-talaq (marriage with the intention of divorce). It is later modified to Misyar Nikkah [Traveler's marriage].
All we ask is a clear proof from the Quran, Sunnah and Sahabah's example sanctioning it.

AlBaqir:
Nikah al-Mutah, or simply Mutah, is marriage between two consenting adults for a specified period of time.
Qur'an states:
"Those of them with whom you contract MUT'AH, give them their prescribed dowries; and there is no blame on you about what you mutually agree after what is prescribed. Verily, Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise" {surah an-Nisa: 24}
# Imam Ibn Jarir al-Tabari (d.310H) in his Tafsir [Jami al-Bayan fi Tawil al-Qur'an (Dar al-Fikr; 1415 H), vol. 5, p. 19],
# Imam 'Abd al-Razzaq (d. 211H) in his al-Musannaf [vol. 7, p. 498, # 14022],
# Imam al-Hafiz ibn Kathir (d. 774H) in his Tafsir al-Quran al-Azim [( 2nd edition, 1420 H), vol. 2, p. 259],
# And Imam al-Hakim (d. 410H) ALL document with more or less similar versions:
"Abu Nadrah: I read to Ibn Abbas: {Those of them with whom you contract mutah, give them their prescribed dowries} [4:24]. He said: {"Those of them with whom you contract Mutah for a specified period }".
Abu Nadrah said: I said, "We do not recite it like that!" Ibn Abbas replied, "I swear by Allah, Allah certainly revealed it like that."
Al-Hakim and Imam al-Dhahabi (d. 748 H) comments: This ḥadīth is Sahih upon the standard of (Imam) Muslim.
Source: {al-Mustadrak ala al-Sahihayn (Beirut: Dar al-Kutub al-Ilmiyyah; 1st edition, 1411 H), vol. 2, p. 334, # 3192}
Imam Ibn Kathir gives further information [ref. cited above]:
"Ibn Abbas, Ubayy b. Ka'b, Sa'id b. Jubayr and al-Suddi used to recite: {Those of them with whom you contract mut'ah for a specified period, give them their prescribed dowries}"
So absolutely this ayah legislated Mutah and there are countless Sahih ahadith in Sunni and Shi'i reference books that proved its validity.
On the other hand, there are "sihah" ahadith, ONLY in Sunni books which claim that the holy Prophet, salallahu alahi wa ahli, later prohibited Nikah al-Mutah [forever] at three different periods and locations after approving it intermittently. The last "prohibition" (according to these narrations) was at the night of Awtas (Fath Makkah - conquest of Makkah in the 9th Hijri). This last prohibition at Fath Makkah is reported by a SINGLE Sahabi who claimed he saw the Prophet at the gate of Kaaba addressing people. How come ONLY HIM NARRATED THIS WHEN THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WERE PRESENT? This kind of hadith is Wahid/Mufrad.
Shi'i school however argued that since there exist an ayah in the Qur'an that legislated Mutah, NO hadith can ever abrogate an ayah of the Qur'an as Allah Himself declare that "whatever ayah We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or like it…"{al-Baqarah:106; an-Nahl:101}.
This alone questions the integrity of the ahadith that claims the Prophet later prohibited Mut'a after its legislation.
Various other counter argument were presented by the Sunni that certain ayah [e.g surah al-Mu'minin: 1-7] already abrogated the ayah of Mut'ah, but chronologically, a previous ayah or surah [e.g revealed in Makka] can never abrogate later ayah or surah [e.g revealed in Madina].
QUESTION:
As regard Temporary Marriage (Nikah Mutah), young sisters are being affected psychologically in some circumstances. How can we combat the issue?
REPLY (BY Sayyid Mustafa Qazwini):
"My friends, temporary marriage is not a permission for all people to practice it.
Temporary marriage is not the norm. Its the exception. Remember! The norm is the permanent marriage...to marry a person...establishing a family and raising children.
However for every norm, there is an exception...I do not encourage the young generations to go after temporary marriage. Its not for you guys. You have to think of your futures, to build a stable future for yourselves.
Remember, this temporal relationships are going to affect (you) in a bad way, in a negative way...the more premarital relationships you have, the more destabilize your marriage is going to be (and vice versa)...
So it is not for you (the youth). It is for people who have some special circumstances. It is like an emergency door. We do not use it unless there is an emergency. Otherwise we use the main door. Timed marriage (mut'a) is for exceptional cases..."
NB: Video of this is available should you want to verify.
Shia do not close the door when this marriage is necessary unlike the Sunni. I ask what is the solution for a Soldier on a mission of e.g 3-5years (and another year somewhere else etc) in an unknown land, as regard to his sexual desires?
# The fact that Mutah has been greatly abused doesn't mean it should be declare Haram. So many other things have been greatly abused too by the Muslims.