johnw74:


You keep showing that you don't have a clue,
as the word came forth from God, [size=25]
the word can not be anything other than God's own Spirit,

[/size]
and God was not created.
If you want understanding on 3:14 then ask someone else,
you know I don't waste much time on supposed jw and their followers or other non believers and anti Christs.

2Co 6:14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers; for what fellowship does righteousness have with lawlessness? And what partnership does light have with darkness?

At underlined , Jesus is now the holyspirit

ninovandross:
so in other words we have 2 Gods then. There is the original God and the jesus God right, so wic one do u worship

Let me explain something for you. In the physical realm as we have the human race call man. In the spiritual real we have the spiritual race call God. As there are different human strater of authority so it is in the spirit.

God is the highest race of spiritual beings. Other lower races exist.

Scholar8200:
The following verses should clarify things

Hebrews 1:8
But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.

John 1:1,2,18 (AMP)
In the beginning [before all time] was the Word ([a]Christ), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself. 2 He was [continually existing] in the beginning [co-eternally] with God.
No one has seen God [His essence, His divine nature] at any time; the [One and] only begotten God [that is, the unique Son] who is in the intimate presence of the Father, He has explained Him [and interpreted and revealed the awesome wonder of the Father].

What of the Old Testament?

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a [b]son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

The Son is also the Mighty God!

If one claims this was the Father, then consider this:


http://biblehub.com/interlinear/isaiah/9-6.htm

Father is omitted in the Hebrew meaning the use thereof was implied as a result of the general use of the word, 'abiad' being followed by Father. Besides, that Joseph described himself as a father to Pharaoh (GEnesis 45:8.) being his second-in-command tells us what it means that Jesus was described , impliedly, as Father.

The son of God is not the almighty God as the Holy Spirit is not the son.

The almighty God is the father of the son who declared to the son," this day have I begotten thee". If He call the gods unto who the word of God (adoption) came ...

OLAADEGBU:


How will you explain the term 'Son of God'? How is Jesus the only begotten Son of God?

Jesus was the only person God personally declared His son. We became sons of God by believing the declaration of Jesus.

We are the sons of Adam not because we were born by Adam but because Adam's children gave birth to us. That is how it goes

Aceed:


Son of God means a man is of God.

Why I used "begotten" is because we are all sons of God but that doesn't put us in the same category as Jesus/God but the Bible refers to us as gods.

Begotten is the past of beget. Now, beget means "to give rise to". So, if Jesus is the only begotten Son of God it means He "stems" from God making Him part of God, making Him God. Therefore, from the meaning of beget, you can see that we are not begotten, i.e we did not "stem" from God; but created.

Until you understand that Jesus who born you into the family of God lacked nothing the father has, you will die like men psalm 82:5-7.

As the father begot Jesus so Jesus begot us.

OLAADEGBU:


Are you not falling into the temptation satan used in deceiving Eve when he said we will be like God?



So Jesus is begotten not created. Good.

Were you created into being a child of God or begotten into the family of God? John 1:13

Jozzy4:


Man and bird beget through sexual intercourse , how did God beget ?

God beget through His word

johnw74:

the word can not be anything other than God's own Spirit,

Jozzy4:


At underlined , Jesus is now the holyspirit

The clueless one puts his foot in it again,
the Father is also Spirit - God is spirit.

soulpeppersoup:

God beget through His word

What does it mean that God beget ?
God beget Jesus , tell us the process he used to beget Jesus ?

johnw74:






The clueless one puts his foot in it again,
the Father is also Spirit - God is spirit.

Okay , but what is Gods own spirit ? Holyspirit .
The word ? Jesus .




" the word can not be anything other than God's own spirit "

Jozzy4:


Okay , but what is Gods own spirit ? Holyspirit .
The word ? Jesus .




" the word can not be anything other than God's own spirit "

Those who think the Holy Spirit is just a power can never know.

1Co_2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

1Co_2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Aceed:


I have a question, who are we going to be like if we are to rapture or enter heaven?


And I believe that if Adam and Eve had eaten from the tree of life, man would be more of God than we are today.

Lol, your funny. The concept of God is spiritual not physical. Adam action didn't diminish your Godship as much as Jesus action affirmed it.

Your not more of God now than you would have been if Adam didn't eat the fruit.

OLAADEGBU:


I know we are going to be like Jesus, but does that mean we are going to become omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent like God?



What would be the difference between our first parents and God if they had eaten from the tree of life?

Every child of God is omnipotent, omniscience and omnipresent like God His father.

Jozzy4:


What does it mean that God beget ?

God beget Jesus , tell us the process he used to beget Jesus ?

Am not here to convince you but to show you truth, you can walk into it or walk out.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Genesis 5:4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

Begot, beget etc all mean to give birth but the process the spirit give birth is not the same with flesh.

Psalms 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Jesus has been existence with the father but became his son at the father declaration.

Now how are we born into God's family? By the same declaration which now came through Jesus no more the son.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

This is how Jesus and we were born... of God (the word of God).

John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
John 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

johnw74:


Those who think the Holy Spirit is just a power can never know.

1Co_2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

1Co_2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Of cos , no wonder the word /Jesus/ cannot be anything other than Gods own spirit /holyspirit/ , jesus is the holyspirit

Jozzy4:


Jesus remains the first BORN OF all CREATION - col 1:15 , that scripture is clear enough

I suppose it was an oversight but that place is Creature not Creation.

who is the image of the invisible God, the [size=13pt]firstborn of every creature[/size][size=14pt]:[/size] 16 for by him were all things created

The colon sign is used, inter alia, to introduce an explanation hence verse 16 was meant to explain the last statement in verse 15.

(Rule 4. A colon ... may be used between independent clauses when the second sentence explains, illustrates, paraphrases, or expands on the first sentence.
http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/colons.asp)
Indeed every jot and tittle is important

. He is the first person born of creation

1. Creation gave birth to no one. I am sure you really wish (and are trying hard to make) that passage says "born by creation" but it doesnt because that is erroneous.

2. Adam was described as the son of God in Luke yet nowhere was he called begotten/brought forth! Only Jesus is ever called the Begotten of the Father. Why the switching of words in the Bible - made and brought forth within the same passage (Proverbs 8.)?

3. In fact, that it says First Born and not First created should have laid the matter to rest long ago!!! Show me a place where it expressedly says the Father created/made the Son.

Rev 3:14 supports this , Jesus said he is " the beginning of the creation BY God"

Revelations 3:14 Jesus said He is the Beginning of the Creation OF GOD. Avoid substituting words to suit your purpose. This one you just did now set this passage against Colossians 1:15,16 were Christ is revealed as He by Whom all things were made!

Since you accept the words of Christ in Revelations, then Who alone can say this:

1. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Revelations 1:8

2. ..Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Revelations 1:17b

3. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Revelations 22:13

ALL SPOKEN BY JESUS

In the mouth of two or three witnesses, every Word shall be established. ^^^There you have 'em.

The Father said same of Himself:
And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. 6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.
Revelations 21:5,6a

Jozzy4:


Of cos , no wonder the word /Jesus/ cannot be anything other than Gods own spirit /holyspirit/ , jesus is the holyspirit

The Father is Spirit, so you say the Father is the Holy Spirit too,
you say the Word and the Father is the Holy Spirit.


Those who think the Holy Spirit is just a power can never know Him.

1Co_2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

1Co_2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Scholar8200:
I suppose it was an oversight but that place is Creature not Creation.

who is the image of the invisible God, the [size=13pt]firstborn of every creature[/size][size=14pt]:[/size] 16 for by him were all things created

The colon sign is used, inter alia, to introduce an explanation hence verse 16 was meant to explain the last statement in verse 15.

(Rule 4. A colon ... may be used between independent clauses when the second sentence explains, illustrates, paraphrases, or expands on the first sentence.
http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/colons.asp)
Indeed every jot and tittle is important



1. Creation gave birth to no one. I am sure you really wish (and are trying hard to make) that passage says "born by creation" but it doesnt because that is erroneous.

2. Adam was described as the son of God in Luke yet nowhere was he called begotten/brought forth! Only Jesus is ever called the Begotten of the Father. Why the switching of words in the Bible - made and brought forth within the same passage (Proverbs 8.)?

3. In fact, that it says First Born and not First created should have laid the matter to rest long ago!!! Show me a place where it expressedly says the Father created/made the Son.





Revelations 3:14 Jesus said He is the Beginning of the Creation OF GOD. Avoid substituting words to suit your purpose. This one you just did now set this passage against Colossians 1:15,16 were Christ is revealed as He by Whom all things were made!

Since you accept the words of Christ in Revelations, then Who alone can say this:

1. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Revelations 1:8

2. ..Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Revelations 1:17b

3. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Revelations 22:13

ALL SPOKEN BY JESUS

In the mouth of two or three witnesses, every Word shall be established. ^^^There you have 'em.

The Father said same of Himself:
And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. 6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.
Revelations 21:5,6a

The highlighted colored scripture pronounce Jesus as the beginning of THE CREATION of God ? Yes Or No

Jozzy4:


The highlighted colored scripture pronounce Jesus as the beginning of THE CREATION of God ? Yes Or No

I wish you first deal with the issues I raised in that post you quoted (just like I did yours). Then an answer would be given to your question with respect to all the passages quoted in my post viz Revelations 3:14a=Colossians 1:15,16

Jozzy4:


Okay , but what is Gods own spirit ? Holyspirit .
The word ? Jesus .




" the word can not be anything other than God's own spirit "

The name of the God head shows their functions. The father; He over sees all.
The son; came to reconcile man to God his father.
The holy spirit; reveals to the reconciled man his right in God (his omnipotency, omnisciency and omnipresency)

Non is the same. When Jesus was on earth the father spoke audibly, "this is my beloved son in whom am well pleased". This shows Jesus wasn't the father.

When Jesus was on earth he said, " when I go I will send you the holy spirit". This shows Jesus is not the holy spirit since he can't send himself. The holy spirit is not the father, since the son can't send the father

Jozzy4:


Of cos , no wonder the word /Jesus/ cannot be anything other than Gods own spirit /holyspirit/ , jesus is the holyspirit

The word of God is God's spirit. When God the father speak it carries his spirit, when Jesus speak it carries his spirit and when the holy spirit speaks it carries the holy spirit spirit.

Man's words carries man spirit. Demonic words carries demonic spirit.

Now when you speak the word of God you are invoking the spirit of the God head that spoke the word.

Jesus became the word of God because God spoke it.

Do you know what make a man good or bad is the words he hears and believe? And whatever you believe you become.

You can become the word of God if you accept and believe it. Is no magic, its a spiritual principle.

Forget the Mohammedans' thinking. Islam knows the Truth, but when the Muhammedans think, they get confused when talking with Christians. The Christians also cajole a lot with the words of God in their mouths. We are talking about The Spirit Discipline here and not Science nor Arts. Jesus is son of man. Christ is Son of God. On The Throne of Grace, Christ, is the One who sits there and Jesus the Lamb of God that was bruised sits there also among the four living creatures which He used on earth. We are saying that God is Spirit and is capable of appearing anytime anywhere and anyhow in you and I. Even the Muslims know this and for this they refuse to blab on the way of men.

Scholar8200:
This line of argument is not applicable here

That show you are just a confuse person .

Scholar8200:
That violates the context! Besides, Why will He be called Firstborn in vs 15 since vs 16 says All other things were created? Why did it not say they were begotten?

Prove it! Give links/quotes from referenced sites that confirm your claim. The amplified version uses the words in parentheses as a way of capturing the full meaning of the word used in the manuscript.


this is figurative! The same passage speaks of the earth being formed! Besides, apart from Proverbs 8:24-30 that speaks of the earth being made/created (by Jesus as Col 1:16 affirms) there are other passages that tell us expressedly that the mountains etc were created but not ONE that says the Son was created!


That was spoken by Christ after the incarnation. What? Would you say He was lower than Joseph and Mary because He was subject to them as a Child? There are other passages where His Divinity was revealed eg John 17:5

Firstborn of creation is the beginning of d creation of God

Jessicha:


That show you are just a confuse person .

Thanks a lot. God bless.

soulpeppersoup:


Lol, your funny. The concept of God is spiritual not physical. Adam action didn't diminish your Godship as much as Jesus action affirmed it.

Your not more of God now than you would have been if Adam didn't eat the fruit.

Yes, Adam's action didn't diminish it but we lost what would have proven us to be gods - DOMINION

uboma:



Jesus Christ was also created by God. The Bible refers to him as the first born of all creation.

You can't really say that literally because He has been there since the beginning Jn 1:1

OLAADEGBU:


I know we are going to be like Jesus, but does that mean we are going to become omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent like God?

Ofcourse not!

What would be the difference between our first parents and God if they had eaten from the tree of life?

The difference would be in our respective authorities/domains; God will have supreme authority over everything(including us and the earth) but man will only have dominion on earth only.

Aceed:


Yes, Adam's action didn't diminish it but we lost what would have proven us to be gods - DOMINION

We are not less gods now that Adam was. Our problem is we don't believe in the capacity of who we are. We are caging the gods in us crying for expression

soulpeppersoup:


We are not less gods now that Adam was. Our problem is we don't believe in the capacity of who we are. We are caging the gods in us crying for expression

No matter how much we believe in who we are or how much we want to express ourselves, we can't still do nothing because we are under satanic bondage due to the fall and unless we go to Jesus we are no gods!

Aceed:


No matter how much we believe in who we are or how much we want to express ourselves, we can't still do nothing because we are under satanic bondage due to the fall and unless we go to Jesus we are no gods!

What make us gods in the first place if not Jesus raising God back to live in us.

Jessicha:


Jozzy has explained this earlier but let me add a few point :

Begotten : to cause to exist .

Isaac is called the " only begotten son" of Abraham [heb 11:17] , how was Isaac begotten or cause to exist ? Through sexual intercourse .

Now can you please tell us how Jesus was begotten ?

You will have to first agree that Jesus was begotten and not created.

Jessicha:


Firstborn OF all creation not firstborn over .. gerarahere

Firstborn not firstcreated.