I sure do. That is, if it is actually water baptism (complete immersion in water).

Whole households were baptized in the book of Acts and we were not told that children were left out.

Let me know what you believe and the reason for your belief.

I dont.

Infants dont know anything and one cant be baptized in water without the person affirming his or her believe in Christ through genuine repentance. We were not told actually if children were there where you quoted from, but I believe it's the adults that were being referred to.

Moreover you have to immerse totally in water when baptizing, so how do we immerse a baby in the water if not to kill, God forbid.

i agree wit the above statement.. no i do not believe in instant water baptizing.. neither do i believe that it washes away sins... again ma ans is being swayed by ma strong religious background

Sir K

Ask the ladies they will tell you, you can immerse a baby in water for a second or two if you ensure that his nostrils are closed. Afterall, the babies do not breathe every second when they have their bath... otherwise they could choke.

As for repentance and affirmation of fatih in Christ; if he has believing parents, he is sanctified by their belief. That is what the scriptures teach.

Romans 7:9 - For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.  

Paul is saying here that there was a time in his life (before the age of accountability) when he was alive unto God. But then, when he became accountable by the commandment (concious of the difference between good and evil) sin revived, and he died (spiritual death-seperation from God).

Children born to believing parents, before the age of accountability , are alive unto God. When they get to the age of accountability, they can then be instructed in the way they should go. They shouldn't be allowed to choose nothing...we should tell them what to choose!!! The world is too wicked for that.

Proverbs 22:6 - Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.  

We should not give the devil a chance over the lives of our kids. They should be baptised and when they get to the age of accountabilty, they should be instructed in their fatih as in the significance of that baptism. These days, kids are being initiated into the occult at tender age without even knowing it. We have had reports from even nursery Schools.

I think we should be wise in this regard.

Baptism does not just wash away sins, it is actually an outward demonstration and public declaration of your fatih in christ.

You are actually declaring to yourself, the world, and the devil that not only are you a believer in Christ, you have actually identified with him in his death, burial and resurrection.

You have to have accepted Jesus in to your heart as Lord and saviour of Your life to qualify for baptism. Baptism marks your final seperation from the world.

donnie:

Baptism does not just wash away sins, it is actually an outward demonstration and public declaration of your fatih in christ.

You are actually declaring to yourself, the world, and the devil that not only are you a believer in Christ, you have actually identified with him in his death, burial and resurrection.

You have to have accepted Jesus in to your heart as Lord and saviour of Your life to qualify for baptism. Baptism marks your final seperation from the world.

Yes you are absolutely right and as per this reason baptism is by immersion and not sprinkling of water and for adults not infants.
Thanks Donnie for great contribution.

I agree with Donnie. Infants are in no position to declare themselves followers of Christ.

FYI- Infants are actually able to go underwater for quite some time without having to have their nostrils clamped. They know how to hold their breath very well.

Thanx vexxy for attesting to my contribution

...and thnx G.Peter for yours as well n pls.... keep an open mind in this matter

Aren't you in support of infant water baptism?

Of course i am ... but i dont think G. Peter is yet.

The qualification for baptism is to be at peace with God through the gospel ...and babies born to believing parents are at peace with God since they are sanctified by thier parents.

...so they should be baptised.

I don't see a problem with the parents dedicating their child but I believe they should be older before baptism. Make sure they understand what's happening and give them a chance to decided whether it's something they wish to do or not.

Nowhere does the Bible teach that infants should be baptized nor are there any Biblical examples of such. In fact baptizing such infants is contrary to the spirit of what is written.  For example it is written in 1Peter 3:21 that baptism involves a pledge of a good conscience toward God. But babies make no such pledge.

There are places in the book of Acts where whole households were baptized. But nowhere in such places does it indicate that unbelieving infants were baptized. Rather whole households come to faith in Christ and are then baptized. Acts 18:8  Crispus, the synagogue ruler, and his entire household believed in the Lord; and many of the Corinthians who heard him believed and were baptized.

Similarly, when we see people baptized in the Bible it always followed their repentance or belief.  Therefore, if a person has not repented, then their baptism confirms nothing and is invalid. This is what John the Baptist was apparently referring to when a crowd of unrepentant persons came to him seeking baptism, in Matt. 3. He refused them baptism, stating that they first must, "bring forth fruit in keeping with repentance."

we see in [b]Acts 19:1-7 Paul baptizing 12 men who had previously been baptized. some believe that believe that re-baptism is necessary at times, since infant baptism, as practiced, is more similar to the dedication of a child to God than it is of baptism. Infant dedication is good and scriptural (Samuel, for instance, was dedicated to God and it really worked). [/b]  infant dedication is different from BAPTISING..

A baby or a very young child cannot be baptized according to God’s Word, as we read, Acts 8:36,37-WHAT DOTH HINDER (or prevents) ME TO BE BAPTIZED? Philip had preached unto him Jesus and it appears also about baptism. The eunuch wanted to be baptized, but Philip refused unless one condition was met. Look at Philip’s reply. AND PHILIP SAID, IF THOU BELIEVEST WITH ALL THINE HEART, THOU MAYEST. The eunuch then said in verse 37-I BELIEVE THAT JESUS CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD.

    A baby cannot repent. A baby cannot believe. A baby is not to be baptized. Baby baptism means nothing. It is a deception created by the adversary.  It nurtures a false assurance as one grows up that they are going to heaven.

i dont
a child doesnt know anything
and just baptizing him would look kinda wierd
he has to be old enough to decide whether
he wants to be baptized.

i never believe in infant baptism.

Infant baptism is more like a ritual/rites. It carries no significant potency. Every human have got to choose christ.
There is no disparity or impartiality with GOd. If children of believers are saved, what about children of unbelievers? Is GOD partial.
Baptizing an infant dont make him/her a christian. Aside mere formality..i see it as nothing else.

Layi,

Your quote:
Infant baptism is more like a ritual/rites. It carries no significant potency. Every human have got to choose christ. 

I do not agree that infant baptism carries no significant potency. If i may ask, will taking my baby to a babalawo for tribal marks and cuts or for dedicatin to the gods carry significant potency?

Do the parents wait for the child's acceptnce of or belief in those devils before initiating him? why did they not wait for him to exercise his right to choose?

The child is qualified to be baptised because he is sanctified by his parents fatih.

1 Corinthians 7:14 - "For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy."   


There is no disparity or impartiality with GOd.

I agree


If children of believers are saved, what about children of unbelievers?

Like their parents, they are unsaved!

Is GOD partial.

NO!

Baptizing an infant don't make him/her a christian.

I know that... just like baptising an adult don't make him/her a christian.

Aside mere formality...i see it as nothing else.

Do you call baptism mere formality?

It is a sacrament ( an outward demonstration of a spiritual truth). It is a commandment of Jesus.

Romans 6:4 - "Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."

Queen,

I'll quote you:

Nowhere does the Bible teach that infants should be baptized nor are there any Biblical examples of such.

NO where does the bible teach against infact baptism. At least, you havent yet shown me.

In fact baptizing such infants is contrary to the spirit of what is written.

That is a strong statement o! Contrary to the Spirit? Did you hear that from Him?

For example it is written in 1Peter 3:21 that baptism involves a pledge of a good conscience toward God. But babies make no such pledgee.

Yeah... but their parents can make the pledge for them:

1 Corinthians 7:14 - For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

Oracle, Loveth, & Vexy,

Did you say we should give the child a chance to decide first?

Luke 16:8 - "... for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light."

For those of you who live in Africa...have you ever heard of an occult man who asked his baby boy if he wanted to join the cult or not? Many times, children are initiated even before they start talking. The child does not have a choice in such cases.

But when it comes to the worship of the living God, you say we should allow the child decide for himself. The bible dosnt teach that!!

The believing parent can choose for the child:

1 Corinthians 7:14 - "For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy."

Proverbs 22:6 - "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it".

It did not say, train him up in the way he wants to go . Or in the way you want Him to go. But you train Him up in the way he should go. In the way of the Lord!

This is the reason we have many great preachers who have wayward children. They allowed them choose what to do with their lives for themselves. They did not train the child up in the way he should go because if they did, he will not depart from it, he will not be wayward.

The child should be taught what to believe, what to do, who to worship, and how to worship. He shouldn't be allowed to choose nothing, especially when he is still an infant.

This is the bible way. Baptize the child, then when he can understand, tell him the significance of that baptism. Tell him, "son, you are not for the devil, but for God".

donnie: 1 Corinthians 7:14 - "For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy."

donnie, I am not a Christian. But based on your interpretation of the above verse, if I marry a Christian woman, I can go ahead and get baptised and go to heaven when I die. I am "sanctified by my wife". Wow, I love it!

"Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it"

Donnie, the average Nigerian pastor does not give his children the option of choosing another religion. They train their children very well in the area of religion, but the problem is in the way they behave at home. They relate badly with their wives and children, and this causes the children, when they grow up, to say "if this is Christianity then I want no part in it!"

Their reasoning is like this: "if my dad, who is seen as a role model, can be such a hypocrite then Christianity must be an empty religion!"

Nope, In this case, you have the ability to choose. You should choose right. That choice will either qualify you for baptism or not.

Her believing may cover you in this world from some mishaps. It may shield you from some trouble in this world. It brings the presence of God into your union. But it cannot give you etrnal life since that is a personal thing. Those who get baptised, have eternal life in them.

As for the child, since he cannot choose at his age, the choice is made for him. Later on in life, he will have to accept the truth about his baptism.

The main point in 1cor 7:14 is the approval of God concerning the union of a woman who gets saved while being married to an unbelieving husband. It tells her that she can still continue with the marriage as her belief sanctifies the union and sanctifies their children who are the fruit of that union.

Training up a child is not just in talk, but in Word and deed. We lead by example. That is a personal problem of such pastors. They are not doers of the Word.

It is not religion but practical christianity. If the pastor was not just a religious fellow but a doer of the Word, the child will necessarily follow in his steps.

To say it in a nut shell, infant baptism is totally wrong. You can take me on.

why should baptism be wrong wen CHRIST imself was baptised....am confused o

@sodgi
GP said infant baptism NOT baptism.

Anyway, in as much as I do not buy the idea of infant baptism...i am not against it. It is not 'wrong'.

Like I said in earlier posts, it carries no potency. Its just an outward declaration of your faith. No one would go to hell for not beign baptized.
I wonder what faith the infant is declaring, by the way.

donnie:

Layi,

Your quote:
Infant baptism is more like a ritual/rites. It carries no significant potency. Every human have got to choose christ. 

I do not agree that infant baptism carries no significant potency. If i may ask, will taking my baby to a babalawo for tribal marks and cuts or for dedicatin to the gods carry significant potency?

Do the parents wait for the child's acceptnce of or belief in those devils before initiating him? why did they not wait for him to exercise his right to choose?
.........................................

The analogy aint right. U can't likin baptism to devilish initiations. Baptism (water or fire) cannot be done on an infant.  Water baptism is an open declaration faith. its not like you are filled with the holy siprit then. I ask again...what faith is the baby declaring. Declaring ur baby's faith is not within your jurisprudence.

Babies - weather born to believers or not ARE alive to God.

From the same verse you quoted donnie,

Romans 7:9 - For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Paul was alive unto GOD once? Who were his parents then? Were they believers?

i don't think it is wrong for an infant to be baptised and moreover,i was baptised a week after i came into d WORLD........

....and what did that do to you? (no spite intended).

nothing. ?

Layi,

I see from your arguement that you generally do not see much importance in water baptism. Well before i treat that, let me first reply some of your questions/comments

Like I said in earlier posts, it carries no potency. Its just an outward declaration of your faith. No one would go to hell for not beign baptized.

Your statement that no one will go to hell for not being baptised is like saying "no one will go to hell for not recieving communion or for not  recieving the Holy Ghost. Because these are commandments of Jesus and they have to be obeyed.

I wonder what faith the infant is declaring, by the way...


I ask again...what faith is the baby declaring. Declaring your baby's faith is not within your jurisprudence.

You most probably believe in Child dedications. What faith did the child declare? Did he say he wanted to be dedicated to the service of God?

For the child that is sick and in need of healing from God, who does the believing for healing ...who does the praying?


Babies - weather born to believers or not ARE alive to God.

Did you see this?:

1 Corinthians 7:14 - "For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy."

The seed (children) of the fallen angels that were driven out of heaven, who slept with women that bore children for them were evil giants... So evil that they had to be destroyed by the flood of Noah's day.

Genesis 6:4 - There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God(fallen angels) came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. 

Judah hath dealt treacherously, and an abomination is committed in Israel and in Jerusalem; for Judah hath profaned the holiness of the LORD which he loved, and hath married the daughter of a strange god. 12 The LORD will cut off the man that doeth this, the master and the scholar, out of the tabernacles of Jacob, and him that offereth an offering unto the LORD of hosts. 13 And this have ye done again, covering the altar of the LORD with tears, with weeping, and with crying out, insomuch that he regardeth not the offering any more, or receiveth it with good will at your hand. 14 Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the LORD hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant. 15 And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed...

GOD WAS SEEKING A GODLY SEED!

From the same verse you quoted donnie,

[i]Romans 7:9 - For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Paul was alive unto GOD once? Who were his parents then? Were they believers?

Paul was brought up under strict adherance to the  law of Moses. He was Jew, a child of Abraham, and theerfore a child of God.

Phil 3:4-6

"Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: 5[b] Circumcised the eighth day[/b], of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; 6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless."

Even though his strict upbringing in the Law of Moses does not convince you that his parents were believers in Jehovah, the fact that he was circumcised the eight day should convince you.

Why do you think those devilish initiations carry more weight than water baptism? Is it because we do not do much chanting and shaking in Baptism? Baptism is a very serious ritual.

The bible tells us in 1cor:10:1,2:

"Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea"

This is significant of the new testament baptism of the Holy Spirit -regeneration/Born-again experience (the cloud covering the Isrealites signified the Holy Spirit) and baptism with water (the sea signified water baptism).

Now, when they were baptised in the cloud, the Egyptians(which are a type of the world) still followed them. But when they were baptised in the sea, that was the end of the Egyptians that pursued them.

When one is baptised, it causes such an undescribable release of His Spirit. The devil can no longer lay claims on anything because he has openly denounced any ties with the kingdom and works of darkness.

Mat 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

You must be baptised!

Donnie,
1) A baby born to a Christian woman will go to heaven if he dies.
2) An atheist married to a Christian woman will go to heaven when he dies.
3) A baby can be baptised because his mother is a Christian.
4) An atheist can be baptised because his wife is a Christian.

Based on your interpretation of, "For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, ..." which of the 4 statements above are true?

That is based on your own interpretaion and not mine...

For a mature man, who calls himself an etheist and yet submits to water baptism, he is actually not an etheist because he has actually submitted himself to be baptised.

By the way, a true atheist who knows what he really stands for will refuse baptism no matter what.

Because before you are baptised as a mature person, you are made to make a public declaration of your fath in Jesus.

So he is actually decieving himself if he still says he is not a christian after babtism.

Anyone who isn't righteous b4 God but yet goes ahead to be baptised only took a bath. He is not saved.

Years ago, during the persecution of the early church, if you said you were not a christain, they asked if you were bptised, if your answer was 'yes', you were killed. Because as far as they were conceerned, you had identified with the death burial and resurrection of jesus.

When you reach the age of accountability like the etheist husband, you are responsible for your actions and so cannot claim your wife's fatih at the judgement.

But a child born to believing parents is holy and righteous as his parents are ... but when he gets to the age of accountability he has to be made to declare for himself the Lordship of Jesus.

Rom 10:8-11

" But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed."