Are you a parent? Are you responsible for disciplining your children? Do you hope that your children will derive some moral lesson/good from being subject to some degree of discipline? Is it morally good to infinity discipline a child?

Christian doctrine regards HELL as the place of ultimate punishment for those who do not make it up to heaven - a place of eternal punishment. This raises a number of important questions:

1) Is it morally good to punish individual infinitely?

2) Is the punisher infinity immoral who is capable of punishing infinitely?

I in lagos how bad can hell b? oooooooooo

You can add this question.
3). If hell can by a percent chance be real, I'm I safe from going there? I'm I ever going to be prepared to leave this world?

You can add this question.
3). If hell can by a percent chance be real, I'm I safe from going there? I'm I ever going to be prepared to leave this world?

You can add this question.
3). If hell can by a percent chance be real, I'm I safe from going there? I'm I ever going to be prepared to leave this world?

I think deep down you really are scared a hell may actually exist and you may be heading there. Take a good look at image123's question.

How do you expect the US Vs THEM divide to survive if the believers do not have a "heaven" full of goodies waiting for them and the unbelievers have a "hell" full of suffering to go to? how do you expect people to stay in line without a concept that will keep them in great fear as long as they live? hell is a perfect invention to keep people in line and in constant fear of the unknown.

The thing that's so horrible about it is that many of these people have bought so heavily into this concept of Heaven and an afterlife peopled by their dead friends and relatives that they actually do deep down despise this life, and are looking forward to what they genuinely believe will be coming after. They don't care if the world blows up- deep down they really don't. While it's not discussed in mixed company, this hatred of the human race has been at the core of christianity since its first mentions in the pages of historyI happen to love this life- it's beautiful, intricate- fascinating. We get to learn as much as we can absorb in a lifetime, we get to create, learn, play, teach- whatever we want to do. We get as much freedom as we take for ourselves, there really is no attending agent.

It's really okay that we've been praying to ourselves all along. In the end, we're not all that bad, and that's what we're really afraid of, isn't it? We're afraid that if you cracked open the worth of a human being you'd find complete rot- so we assume we need salvation. I think the truth will turn out to be that we're not that bad, maybe we're even over the 51% for being decent. Steven Pinker gave a compelling lecture at TED that we're getting significantly nicer as a species- back in the time much of the bible was written, a man had a 60% likelihood of dying at the hand of another man in war or violence. Today, that has shrunk to 6%, despite our war machines and "evil leaders", war and violence only lead to 6% of total deaths. Wow.

There really is nothing to fear but fear itself. those who capitalise on other people's fears are really the bad guys.

toneyb, i think the fear is from you to be honest. The average christian very rarely bothers about hell at all.
Infact many of us can count on one finger the number of times we heard about hell in church.

davidylan:

toneyb, i think the fear is from you to be honest. The average christian very rarely bothers about hell at all.
Infact many of us can count on one finger the number of times we heard about hell in church.

Fear of what? how can I be afraid of a non existent place that is clearly a human construct? . despite all the heaven and hell brouhaha no body has ever proven that human consciousness survives bodily death. Why must you be lying all the time? Who told you that the average Christian rarely bothers about hell at all? Must you always tell lies? Did you bother to read my post before ejaculating any trying to go and your usual lying spree? The whole bible and Christian faith boils down to one thing. The AFTER LIFE. If not for the unnecessary  fear of the after life there will be no religion. People will not believe in the completely unverifiable claims of ancient men that thought the sun moves from place to place. By the way when your pastors saw that the constant teachings of heaven and hell was counterproductive they resulted to prosperity teaching and the ridiculous teachings that Jesus will help solve all the problems that believers face in life.

toneyb:

Fear of what? how can I be afraid of a non existent place?

Its funny how these "non existent place" shld so capture the attention of so many atheists. Are you seeking a clarification that it doesnt exist or YOU KNOW that it doesnt exist? Alice's wonderland doesnt exist . . . it is the reason why we dont have 1000 threads trying to PROVE that it doesnt exist . . . what about hell and heaven brings atheists foaming in the mouth?

toneyb:

. despite all the heaven and hell brouhaha no body has ever proven that human consciousness survives bodily death.

why are you demanding proof? Arent you 100% convinced that heaven or hell dont exist? Do you usually ask for proof that atlantis exists?

toneyb:

Why must you be lying all the time? Who told you that the average Christian rarely bothers about hell at all? Must you always tell lies? Did you bother to read my post before ejaculating any trying to go and your usual lying spree?

the above sounds eerily like what i would have said. Try being original when next you wish to make a meaningless point.

- Do you know the mind of ALL CHRISTIANS? Since when did you become an authority on what we think? I rarely spend time thinking about hell at all, for me its not a place i will go so why shld i care about it? I grew up in a largely christian atmosphere . . . i cant remember anytime when we devoted even 10 minutes to discussing hellfire. What for?

toneyb:

The whole bible and Christian faith boils down to one thing. The AFTER LIFE. I[b]f not for the unnecessary fear of the after life there will be no religion[/b].

Is this "fear" what is driving the irrational atheist attacks on the christian faith? Is that why the clamour to abolish religion is now growing louder so you can all push away the "fear" that indeed you may be headed to hell afterall when you die?

Is it that you are NOT really convinced christianity is wrong and you are right? could it be that deep down a fear gnaws deep in your soul that hell awaits you? Why does hell (a place you claim doesnt exist) captivate you so?

The christian faith boils down to one thing - the precious gift of redemption from sin. The afterlife is simply a continuation of that gift you recieved during your lifetime.

toneyb:

People will not believe in the completely unverifiable claims of ancient men that thought the sun moves from place to place. By the way when your pastors saw that the constant teachings of heaven and hell was counterproductive they resulted to prosperity teaching and the ridiculous teachings that Jesus will help solve all the problems that believers face in life.

absurd . . .

Hell,just used to keep the poor people in check. . . .if you rob god in thites,hell! If you question the servants of god. . .hell!
This is psychological bondage!

davidylan:

Its funny how these "non existent place" shld so capture the attention of so many atheists. Are you seeking a clarification that it doesnt exist or YOU KNOW that it doesnt exist? Alice's wonderland doesnt exist . . . it is the reason why we dont have 1000 threads trying to PROVE that it doesnt exist . . . what about hell and heaven brings atheists foaming in the mouth?

I KNOW that it doesn't exist. it is clearly a human construct. Aljanah(or what ever the followers of Islam call it) is another man made construct just like the hell you so wish all atheist and unbelievers will dwell in for eternity.   . What is Alice wonderland? care to tell me what it is? the fact that you are presently foaming in the mouth when discussing about heaven and hell because of fear doesn't mean atheist are foaming in the mouth like you when discussing about it. I find it ridiculous that people believe in all these myths to the extent of not caring about what happens to them in this present life. Most christians are so consumed in the thoughts of an after life that they don't give a dam if anything happens to this world, in fact some are even trying to trigger the Armageddon

why are you demanding proof? Arent you 100% convinced that heaven or hell dont exist? Do you usually ask for proof that atlantis exists?

Proof of what? I said They only exist in your DELUDED imaginations. What is Atlantis? care to tell me what it is?

the above sounds eerily like what i would have said. Try being original when next you wish to make a meaningless point.

- Do you know the mind of ALL CHRISTIANS? Since when did you become an authority on what we think? I rarely spend time thinking about hell at all, for me its not a place i will go so why shld i care about it? I grew up in a largely christian atmosphere . . . i cant remember anytime when we devoted even 10 minutes to discussing hellfire. What for?

You can't speak for all Christians, do you know the minds of all Christians? since when did you become the authority to speak on behalf of all Christians? I grew up in a largely Christian atmosphere too and hell was VERY much talked about most of the time. We were constantly reminded that the wages of sin is eternal damnation in hell. Millions of Christians are being bombarded with  these messages week in week out when the go to churches. The fact that you don't discuss hell in your own sect doesn't mean that millions don't. Why do you always try to use your self as some kind of authority on the Christian faith? by the way there are over 30, 000 version of Christianity and your own sect is just one out of the many. so just because your sect or the people around you do not talk about heaven and hell does not mean that other christians are not so obsessed with it.

Is this "fear" what is driving the irrational atheist attacks on the christian faith? Is that why the clamour to abolish religion is now growing louder so you can all push away the "fear" that indeed you may be headed to hell afterall when you die?

What fear are you talking about? The fact that you are fearful for your life doesn't mean others are. You believe in irrational claims that have no evidence what so ever and you still open your mouth and call others irrational? Hell is CLEARLY a human construct so why should I be afraid of it when I KNOW that it doesn't exist. Hell only exist in the imaginations of deluded and fearful people like you. If i ask you for the evidence of hell which you believe in you will point to the writings of ancient men who thought that the deity the believe in is the force that cause earth quake, diseases,flooding and drought.

Is it that you are NOT really convinced christianity is wrong and you are right? could it be that deep down a fear gnaws deep in your soul that hell awaits you? Why does hell (a place you claim doesnt exist) captivate you so?

Again hell only exist in the imaginations of deluded and fearful people like you who are so afraid of the unknown. Hell captivates you alone not me, because i am having a discussing about hell with you does not mean that it captivates me in any way. I notice that you sometimes discuss the koran with the muslims, does the koran captivate you?

The christian faith boils down to one thing - the precious gift of redemption from sin. The afterlife is simply a continuation of that gift you recieved during your lifetime.

The Christian faith boils down to one thing. And that is the AFTER LIFE. that is the unnecessary fear of death.

absurd . . .

If not for the fear that has encompassed your thoughts you won't believe in the writings, imaginations and fantasies of people who thought the sun moves from place to place or who thought that evil spirit cause diseases.

toneyb:

How do you expect the US Vs THEM divide to survive if the believers do not have a "heaven" full of goodies waiting for them and the unbelievers have a "hell" full of suffering to go to? how do you expect people to stay in line without a concept that will keep them in great fear as long as they live? hell is a perfect invention to keep people in line and in constant fear of the unknown.

The thing that's so horrible about it is that many of these people have bought so heavily into this concept of Heaven and an afterlife peopled by their dead friends and relatives that they actually do deep down despise this life, and are looking forward to what they genuinely believe will be coming after. They don't care if the world blows up- deep down they really don't. While it's not discussed in mixed company, this hatred of the human race has been at the core of christianity since its first mentions in the pages of historyI happen to love this life- it's beautiful, intricate- fascinating. We get to learn as much as we can absorb in a lifetime, we get to create, learn, play, teach- whatever we want to do. We get as much freedom as we take for ourselves, there really is no attending agent.

It's really okay that we've been praying to ourselves all along. In the end, we're not all that bad, and that's what we're really afraid of, isn't it? We're afraid that if you cracked open the worth of a human being you'd find complete rot- so we assume we need salvation. I think the truth will turn out to be that we're not that bad, maybe we're even over the 51% for being decent. Steven Pinker gave a compelling lecture at TED that we're getting significantly nicer as a species- back in the time much of the bible was written, a man had a 60% likelihood of dying at the hand of another man in war or violence. Today, that has shrunk to 6%, despite our war machines and "evil leaders", war and violence only lead to 6% of total deaths. Wow.

There really is nothing to fear but fear itself. those who capitalise on other people's fears are really the bad guys.

Very interesting thoughts Toneyb.

toneyb:

I KNOW that it doesn't exist. it is clearly a human construct.

Makes me then wonder why this topic is relevant or why you're expending so much mental energy bothering with it. Are you so consumed about telling us that 8-legged dogs dont exist too?