Alexyswiss:


quite clear...

does this means that before any one sinned, God knew he would

I mean why would God create me when he knows I would end up in hell..

and this also means he knows every one who is going to miss rapture??

There are many unstated assumptions in your question, which are not valid for Christianity.

Okay,God created Adam and Eve , but , do you know, You are the product of CHOICES made by your parents?.
Therefore, God has not predestined you
to be born at all. How can you blame
Him for creating you to send you to hell?

This is not to say that God is not involved at all in the creation of life. The Bible says that once a new human life is made God creates a spirit within the fetus and knows us at that point, even calling some to serve Him from the womb:
Isaiah 49:1
Listen to Me, O islands, And pay
attention, you peoples from afar.
The LORD called Me from the womb;
From the body of My mother He
named Me.

The truth is that People choose to go to hell rather than submit their lives to God. You have absolute free will within the confines of your personal ability.You can prove this to yourself. Determine two possible courses of action. They don't have to be big decisions, just any two possible actions. Assign each action to either "heads" or "tails." Flip the coin and do what whatever course chance decided. You can do this as many times as needed to determine that you do, indeed, have free will. Occasionally, do the opposite of what the coins tell you. Has God prevented you from doing anything? No!

Yes, there are people who are destined for hell,but Those who
follow God's plan are provided
opportunities to help others in their
spiritual path, do this atheists looks like people who want to listen? . Because evil exist and God would not override your freewill,its will be hard for All to be on the same path. God want those who are destined for heaven be a spiritual guidance to ALL. Bible say God extends a warm invitation to all sinners.

Isaiah 1:18, “Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like
crimson, they shall be as wool.”

Jesus makes us the promise in John
6:37, “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.”

vooks:

God created RATIONAL beings. What they do with their rational Freewill is purely their responsibility. Comprende?

They had the moral compass of three-year-olds. They didn't know they were doing anything wrong.

CoolUsername:
They had the moral compass of three-year-olds. They didn't know they were doing anything wrong.

That is the gospel according to CoolUsername.

In Genesis, there was warning against eating the forbidden fruit and express consequences over breaching it.

Btw, what is 'moral compass of a three year old'?

vooks:

That is the gospel according to CoolUsername.

In Genesis, there was warning against eating the forbidden fruit and express consequences over breaching it.

Btw, what is 'moral compass of a three year old'?

Adam and Eve didn't know the difference between good and evil just like three-year-olds.

CoolUsername:
Adam and Eve didn't know the difference between good and evil just like three-year-olds.

But they did know that God had commanded them against eating a particular fruit

ayoku777:


God let's us reap what we sow. What's the issue there? That's justice.

Meaning if man disobeys God, God punishes him. Is that right?

vooks:


But they did know that God had commanded them against eating a particular fruit

But where is the divine respect for the free will? Especially when ayoku777 sees the exercise of freewill as a manifestation of justice.

Kay17:


But where is the divine respect for the free will? Especially when ayoku777 sees the exercise of freewill as a manifestation of justice.

Existence of freewill is 'divine respect for freewill'

vooks:


But they did know that God had commanded them against eating a particular fruit

They obeyed God until the snake told them something different so they obeyed the snake. Exactly what a child would do. But according to the bible, God punished them (and all their ancestors) for an unavoidable mistake.

CoolUsername:
They obeyed God until the snake told them something different so they obeyed the snake. Exactly what a child would do. But according to the bible, God punished them (and all their ancestors) for an unavoidable mistake.

Your ignorance is horrendous or you are wasting my time;
1. The fact that they were given instructions/laws and they followed them for a while means they were perfectly capable of obeying God

2. That they disobeyed these instructions means they were perfectly rational beings, that is with freewill/ choices. They could choose to disobey

3. The fact that at least Eve hesitated means they fully comprehended the instructions and were not mindless zombies

4. Additionally fact that the devil had to ENTICE them to rebel means they strongly clung to he instructions

From 1-3, how are they like 3 year old? Can you in your own imagination explain how DIFFERENTLY free and rational moral agents would act under thre same circumstances

vooks:

Your ignorance is horrendous or you are wasting my time;
1. The fact that they were given instructions/laws and they followed them for a while means they were perfectly capable of obeying God

2. That they disobeyed these instructions means they were perfectly rational beings, that is with freewill/ choices. They could choose to disobey

3. The fact that at least Eve hesitated means they fully comprehended the instructions and were not mindless zombies

4. Additionally fact that the devil had to ENTICE them to rebel means they strongly clung to he instructions

From 1-3, how are they like 3 year old? Can you in your own imagination explain how DIFFERENTLY free and rational moral agents would act under thre same circumstances

Chill bro, nobody's attacking you here. This evidence you've put doesn't prove your point.

Gen 3:5: "For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

This clearly shows that they did not know what they were getting themselves into because they didn't know what was right and what was wrong. If you read his passage without any emotional baggage attached, you'll see that Adam and Eve were given an unfair test that nobody would have been able to pass.

CoolUsername:
Chill bro, nobody's attacking you here. This evidence you've put doesn't prove your point.

Gen 3:5: "For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

This clearly shows that they did not know what they were getting themselves into because they didn't know what was right and what was wrong. If you read his passage without any emotional baggage attached, you'll see that Adam and Eve were given an unfair test that nobody would have been able to pass.

Let me ask you a question;
Is disobeying God good or evil?

vooks:


Let me ask you a question;
Is disobeying God good or evil?

According to the bible, it's evil.

Now let me ask a question, is it really disobedience if you never knew any better?

CoolUsername:
According to the bible, it's evil.

Good. Now, did Adam possess knowledge of disobedience/evil before he ate the fruit?

Now let me ask a question, is it really disobedience if you never knew any better?

What makes you think Adam 'never knew any better'?

He was told what to do/eat and what not to do/eat, as well as the consequences of doing what he was not to do. Does that sound like somebody who 'never knew any better'?

vooks:


Good. Now, did Adam possess knowledge of disobedience/evil before he ate the fruit?

No, he didn't he just went with the most recent instruction he was given.

What makes you think Adam 'never knew any better'?

He was told what to do/eat and what not to do/eat, as well as the consequences of doing what he was not to do. Does that sound like somebody who 'never knew any better'?

[/quote]Because his eyes were opened AFTER eating the fruit.

CoolUsername:
No, he didn't he just went with the most recent instruction he was given.

Really?

We are studying Genesis not CoolUsername imagination

The instruction was a negative, a don't and he consequences of breaching/disobeying it were explained to them BEFOREHAND

vooks:


Really?

We are studying Genesis not CoolUsername imagination

The instruction was a negative, a don't and he consequences of breaching/disobeying it were explained to them BEFOREHAND

God tells him what not to do, the snake convinces Eve to try it, Eve convinces Adam. That's basicallythe gist of the story.

Now, God told them that they'll die if they eat the fruit. The snake told Eve they wouldn't, but because she didn't know better, Eve didn't really have any incentive to go with God. A good analogy would be to put a baby between two people and trying to fault the child for going towards one person. Adam and Eve had no way of knowing that God represented 'good' while the snake represented 'evil' in that story, and this is because they weren't created with the knowledge of good and evil.

CoolUsername:
God tells him what not to do, the snake convinces Eve to try it, Eve convinces Adam. That's basicallythe gist of the story.

Now, God told them that they'll die if they eat the fruit. The snake told Eve they wouldn't, but because she didn't know better, Eve didn't really have any incentive to go with God. A good analogy would be to put a baby between two people and trying to fault the child for going towards one person. Adam and Eve had no way of knowing that God represented 'good' while the snake represented 'evil' in that story, and this is because they weren't created with the knowledge of good and evil.

If you cared to read, you'd see Eve resisted and recalled God's commandments. Satan countered by saying the consequences were lies. Note he did not dispute the commandment.

It's not like God said 'don't eat' and Satan said 'eat' and they were spoilt for choice. God commanded, Satan enticed and deceived. Clearly the serpent was not on equal footing with God as far as instructing them. He knew it and they knew it.

A more proximate analogy is you giving clear instructions to your child not to open the door for nobody. A thief dangles candy to your kid in exchange for opening the door. He succumbs to the thief's wiles and opens the door.

Study their responses when confronted by God and you will appreciate there was no innocence.

Here is then point;
1. God gave EXPRESS COMMANDMENT.
2. Nobody else could give Adam and Eve EXPRESS COMMANDMENT
3. Adam and Eve obeyed and then rebelled against EXPRESS COMMANDMENT

malvisguy212:
There are many unstated assumptions in your question, which are not valid for Christianity.

Okay,God created Adam and Eve , but , do you know, You are the product of CHOICES made by your parents?.
Therefore, God has not predestined you
to be born at all. How can you blame
Him for creating you to send you to hell?

This is not to say that God is not involved at all in the creation of life. The Bible says that once a new human life is made God creates a spirit within the fetus and knows us at that point, even calling some to serve Him from the womb:
Isaiah 49:1
Listen to Me, O islands, And pay
attention, you peoples from afar.
The LORD called Me from the womb;
From the body of My mother He
named Me.

The truth is that People choose to go to hell rather than submit their lives to God. You have absolute free will within the confines of your personal ability.You can prove this to yourself. Determine two possible courses of action. They don't have to be big decisions, just any two possible actions. Assign each action to either "heads" or "tails." Flip the coin and do what whatever course chance decided. You can do this as many times as needed to determine that you do, indeed, have free will. Occasionally, do the opposite of what the coins tell you. Has God prevented you from doing anything? No!

Yes, there are people who are destined for hell,but Those who
follow God's plan are provided
opportunities to help others in their
spiritual path, do this atheists looks like people who want to listen? . Because evil exist and God would not override your freewill,its will be hard for All to be on the same path. God want those who are destined for heaven be a spiritual guidance to ALL. Bible say God extends a warm invitation to all sinners.

Isaiah 1:18, “Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like
crimson, they shall be as wool.”

Jesus makes us the promise in John
6:37, “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.”

you not getting me right....I know we've got free will of choices

what I mean is dàt since God sees d future..he would know you would end up in a wring decision

MizJanet:


LOL , lol , lol

MizJanet does a lot of laughing at others,
yet she is so dumb, she profiled an "f" next to her username "MizJanet",
so that others know she is female

johnw74:

MizJanet does a lot of laughing at others, yet she is so dumb, she profiled an "f" next to her username "MizJanet", so that others know she is female

Damn...!! :/