besides, at the very basic grassroots, tribal identity also springs from the worship of the same gods and deities.

Aside from blood ties. Where does cultural identity which leads to tribe come from? What defines a culture at the most elementary level- isnt it religion?

Many ethnic groups in Africa and other developing world are usually wrongfully labeled as tribes. Imagine, there are upwards of 10 million yoruba people worldwide and we are still labeled as a "tribe."

for clarification: Bands consist of hunters and gatherers (supposedly the most primitive form of existence).

[img]http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/Anthro/Anth101/bandtribechief.jpg[/img]

The arguement is not whether 'tribes' exist or not.

They sure do, going by the dictionary definition of the word. The arguement is whether it is still relevant when describing a lot of the 'ethnic' groups that make up most countries in the developing world. In the case of Nigeria, we are talking about the Bini, Esan, Hausa, Ijaw etc.

These peopes are not tribes. They, by virtue of their numbers, can lay claims to being 'nations' or whatever it is the English, or Welsh or Catalans would like to call themselves.

Why i dislike the word 'tribe' is the images it conjures up in the mind.

People who study the evolution of language know that language is not just about the communication of words. If it were that, then languages would not have evolved beyond the 'grunt' of primitive man. Language evolves because what is communicated includes the ideas and associations of the word. An example is the word 'wicked', which 10-20 years ago meant something entirely different to what it means to the sixteen year old teenager on the streets of Hackney today.

The images the word 'tribe' conjures in the mind, is also implied when it is used to describe African peoples. That is my point.

tribes arent always about numbers.

The label isnt defined by how many members the group has.

Thats just a common misconception. Most times, tribes are characterized by their mentality and behavior.

@tpiah

You are right. The problem with 'behaviour' is that it is fundamentally determined by self-image. Show me a 'tribal' man and i'll show you a man battling with a lot of insecurities and self-esteem issues.

The re-engineering of our minds must start with the redefining of who we are. It is not primitive 'tribes' that populate the banks of the river Niger from the Futa Djallon mountains of Senegambia to the Delta regions of the bight of Bonny, but proud nations, each with histories no less significant than the history of the British monarchy. When we begin to see ourselves in that light, then we will begin to respect ourselves and 'behave' like the proud people we should be and not resign ourselves to being incompetent 'black African tribes' whose only legacy is slavery, colonialism and incessant squabbles over whose 'tribe' is better than the others. The latter, by the way, is how the rest of the world sees us.

Sorry if i sounded pedantic or patronising. I didn't mean to be.

beneli:

@tpiah

You are right. The problem with 'behaviour' is that it is fundamentally determined by self-image. Show me a 'tribal' man and i'll show you a man battling with a lot of insecurities and self-esteem issues.

The re-engineering of our minds must start with the redefining of who we are. It is not primitive 'tribes' that populate the banks of the river Niger from the Futa Djallon mountains of Senegambia to the Delta regions of the bight of Bonny, but proud nations, each with histories no less significant than the history of the British monarchy. When we begin to see ourselves in that light, then we will begin to respect ourselves and 'behave' like the proud people we should be and not resign ourselves to being incompetent 'black African tribes' whose only legacy is slavery, colonialism and incessant squabbles over whose 'tribe' is better than the others. The latter, by the way, is how the rest of the world sees us.

Sorry if i sounded pedantic or patronising. I didn't mean to be.

I was actually just making a general contribution to the thread- sorry if my post seemed to be directed at you.

But I agree with what you're saying.

Show me a 'tribal' man

@Oyinda

Thanks for showing me the 'tribal' man. I'm sure that underneath that loin cloth is a man battling with a lot of insecurities and unacknowledged self-esteem issues

tpiah:

Aside from blood ties. Where does cultural identity which leads to tribe come from? What defines a culture at the most elementary level- isnt it religion?

I'm not sure if you actually mean for people to answer, but I'll answer it anyway. I think it's safe to say that it is spirituality (maybe first beginning from notions/understandings/beliefs of and regarding the soul), and not necessarily religion. I may be wrong though.

ChinenyeN:

I'm not sure if you actually mean for people to answer, but I'll answer it anyway. I think it's safe to say that it is spirituality (maybe first beginning from notions/understandings/beliefs of and regarding the soul), and not necessarily religion. I may be wrong though.

yes, it was an open question but by religion I meant the gods and deities specific to each tribe. They play a crucial role in tribal formation and identity at the grassroots level.

Japan. . . . . . . . . . .

I would like to hear someone say "the Japanese tribe"

The term "tribe" has been used to haunt Africans to seek their advancement in self-rejection.

In Japan there is a shrine in Futarasan http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e3804.html for three Shinto deities.

jantavanta:
The term "tribe" has been used to haunt Africans to seek their advancement in self-rejection.

We do this occasionally, but its in full effect amongst those in the Americas and beyond. . . . . . . . . .

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tpiah:

yes, it was an open question but by religion I meant the gods and deities specific to each tribe. They play a crucial role in tribal formation and identity at the grassroots level.

Oh yeah. In that case, I agree.

tpiah:

yes, it was an open question but by religion I meant the gods and deities specific to each tribe. They play a crucial role in tribal formation and identity at the grassroots level.

There are some tribes that don't believe in a God.
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