You already know why I am not an atheist. I feel it is fair I also tell u why I am not a muslim.


1. The unfair Reward:

I think that the reward for service (assuming I was a devout muslim) to Allah is very unfair. Take for instance the tenets of islam encourages me:

To profess Allah (as my "GOD" and mohammed (as a "prophet"
to spend my hard earned dollars/pounds to embark on an annual pilgrimage to mecca and meddina (Hajj)
fast annually as a service to islam (sawm)
have as many "temporary" marriages as possible excluding the 4 wives I am entitled to
To pray 5 times daily (salah)
To give alms to the poor (Zakah)
To kill, deystroy, annihilate and excommunicate defenceless people because they don't acknowledge Allah (Jihad).

Now as a muslim (if I were one) I dont have a problem doing all of these above. My major problem is the reward. Hear what Allah says :

There will be no one of you who will not enter it (Hell).
This was an inevitable decree of your Lord.
-- Sura 19:71-72


Why should I be subjected to the torments of hell like other "unbelievers" after I have done so much for allah? Why should allah ever reward a faithful me like this. . . why? why allah, why?


Depending on how I look at it I have another comfortable route to escape hell fire. . , hear what allah says:

And if ye are SLAIN, or[b] DIE[/b], in the way of Allah,
forgiveness and mercy from Allah are far better than all they could amass.
And if ye DIE, or are SLAIN, Lo! it is unto Allah that ye are brought together.
-- Sura 3:157-158

Think not of those who are SLAIN in Allah's way as dead.
Nay, they live, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord;
-- Sura 3:169

Whaooo . . .  .All I have to do now is fight jihad (suicide bombing, terorrism et all) and I will be fine with allah . . , Though I am promised even more reward (72 virgins) by the words of the "prophet"
hear him:
Nobody who enters Paradise will ever like to return to this world even if he were offered everything, except the martyr who will desire to return to this world and be killed 10 times for the sake of the great honour that has been bestowed upon him'." [Sahih Muslim, chapters 781, 782, The Merit of Jihad and the Merit of Martyrdom.]

On the other hand if I were a woman . . . what would I get? 72 men to shag me for eternity?

I am also not comfortable being called a messenger. After living and growing up in an african environment where maids did all the chores, I understand that they are usually 2nd/3rd or even 4th class citizens, they are uncared for and experience no genuie love, neither do they have a meaningful relationship with their "masters" . . . .so why EXACTLY should I be anyone's slave?
Or is there anywhere in the koran where allah was called FATHER? is there anywhere in the koran where he proffesed LOVE to muslims? . ,  I am genuinely desperate for answers.

What is salvation in islam? how I do I know my sins have been redeemed? apart from jihad (killing others) is there any other way I can get to heaven?

The tenets of islam I am comfortable with except JIHAD . . . what I dont like is the fact that no matter what I do, I am merely a messenger who will end up in hell by the ordinance of allah.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2002/jan/12/books.guardianreview5

2. Women/Human rights violation. . . .Negation to my Conscience

OK. I am very very very uncomfortable with the women/human rights abuses prevalent in islam. I dont know if it is koranic or cultural. But the prevalent nature of honour killings, holy jihad, suicide bombing, extensive wife beating, temporary marriages, divorcing by saying it 3 times and lots of underage marriage are islamic norms I would not want my sister/daughter to EVER experience.

Here is a detailed EVIDENCE that islam supports all of these attrocities against womenhood.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/childbrides.htm


3. Inconsistencies of Allah

I and other non-muslims have been asking repeatedly if Allah is the same as Jehovah God of the bible?
For a fact we know that mohammed's father is called Abdallah . . . .meaning slave of allah. Bear in mind that mohammed's father died before mohammed was born, so who was the allah that mohammed's father was worshipping?

Well history also tells us of an "allah" that existed before the birth of mohammed. He had a wife called "Allat" together they had three daughters who were worshipped by the people of saudi arabia. their daughters are al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat. This allah was worshipped in the ka'aba.

Is there any reason to believe that this is not the same idolic allah (pre-mohammed) that is now being paraded as today's Allah. . . .alledgedly equivalent to the bible GOD?

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-allahs-daughters.htm

why does allah not encourage forgiveness? why must anyone caught stealing be amputated or beheaded? including children who steal cos of poverty.

I am not justifying anything. . . I just consider this heartless and very unfair.


4. Inconsistencies of Mohammed

Let me state here that I have nothing against mo. But as an historical figure who is being used by his followers as the yard stick for morality in today's world, it is pertinent he is placed under the scrutiny of human microscopic analysis.

It has been repeatedly established that mohammed had a sexual relationship with a 9 year old girl (Aisha).
It has been repeatedly established that pre-mohammed, this under-age marriage or sexual relations was uncultural.
It has been repeatedly established that muslims all over the world now see this deed of mo, as one worth emulating.

would u let ur 9 year old daughter/sister have sexual relations with an adult?

For me the answer is NO. . . .as such I detest . . . .

http://www.middle-east-info.org/gateway/womenchildabuse/

5. Endless violence/ Terrorism/ Unforgiveness

You have seen from point one that I would only make it to heaven if I am a terrorist (jihadist), otherwise I am hell-bound by the ordinance of allah.
You have seen from point one that Allah sees me as a slave and nothing more.
You have seen from point two that my daughter/sister are unprotected from abuse according to the tenets of islam.
You have seen from point three that there are NO differences between the allah who preceded mo and the one he introduced.

You have also seen from point three that at the slightest mistake, it is convinient for allah to ask mohammedans to chop off my hand or behead me for "sinning". . .without recourse to mercy or forgiveness.


Do u know ANY reason why I should be a Muslim?

is mohammed a prophet?
what were his prophecies?
what were his miracles?

There is absolutely no reason why I should EVER call mohammed a prophet.

6. A better Package

I dont want to go to hell after all my service to allah. There is hope of eternity in Christ Jesus.

Are u a muslim? . . . .Why are u a muslim?
Are u a non-muslim ?. . . . Why are u not a muslim?

MrCrackles:

Fair enough and good for you!

So why are u a muslim?

@Noetic2: You are not a muslim because you want everything on silver platter, including a Salvation you are not willing to lift a single fnger to have! Come to think about it, you want a hand-out. In america, they call people like that Bummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

But Jesus, in the Bible said that not all those who called me god, will enter heaven. It was also stated that he will say to "spme, if not many", in the day of Judgement that he never knew them. Even as these same people tell him that they used to perform "miracles" in his name!

Will those people enter "heaven" in your own view? They happen by descriptions, above to b exclusively Christians. No muslim calls Jesus god! No muslim says he/she perform miracles in the name of Jesus! The very term "muslim" is iconoclastic to accepting any thing is God, except the Creator, Who is always Alive, Able to do all things and have Knowledge of all things!

If some christians, from the mouth of Biblical Jesus will not enter heaven, where is their destination but hell?

The muslims on the other hand, are simply to believe in God as One whose name is Allah. And for such muslim to simply pray the daily Salah. If he/she is poor and weak, no Zakah, but can receive sadaqah, no fasting if impossible for the preservation of even normal health! Nothing is required except the acceptance of One Single God and prayer. Yet this simple almost undemanding process on the physical body, except firmness in the Soul and in the heart (the flesh that is most essential in the body), is enough to guarantee "the Mercy" of Allah! The Mercy of Allah means reward in paradise, because the sins are overlooked.

Now who is definitely not sure to go to Paradise?

Hmm.

Let me join MrCrackles in saying; good for you.

olabowale:

@Noetic2: You are not a muslim because you want everything on silver platter, including a Salvation you are not willing to lift a single fnger to have! Come to think about it, you want a hand-out. In america, they call people like that Bummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

I dont know where u got all this from, I am not a muslim simply based on the reasons stated in the OP.

Salvation is the key thing. If all allah has to offer for eternity is hell. . . .why then should I be a muslim?

But Jesus, in the Bible said that not all those who called me god, will enter heaven. It was also stated that he will say to "spme, if not many", in the day of Judgement that he never knew them. Even as these same people tell him that they used to perform "miracles" in his name!

Why do u think they are disqualified from heaven? Does that disqualification include those who are faithful till the very end?

Will those people enter "heaven" in your own view? They happen by descriptions, above to b exclusively Christians. No muslim calls Jesus god! No muslim says he/she perform miracles in the name of Jesus! The very term "muslim" is iconoclastic to accepting any thing is God, except the Creator, Who is always Alive, Able to do all things and have Knowledge of all things!

whats the meaning of this? what has this got to do with the topic?

If some christians, from the mouth of Biblical Jesus will not enter heaven, where is their destination but hell?

Even my illiterate great grand mother can deduce from that passage that He was referring to the false prophets He highlighted in Matthew 24.
So what are u talking about?

The muslims on the other hand, are simply to believe in God as One whose name is Allah. And for such muslim to simply pray the daily Salah. If he/she is poor and weak, no Zakah, but can receive sadaqah, no fasting if impossible for the preservation of even normal health! Nothing is required except the acceptance of One Single God and prayer. Yet this simple almost undemanding process on the physical body, except firmness in the Soul and in the heart (the flesh that is most essential in the body), is enough to guarantee "the Mercy" of Allah! The Mercy of Allah means reward in paradise, because the sins are overlooked.

Now who is definitely not sure to go to Paradise?

Absolutely irrelevant.

Simply tell us why u are a muslim in relation to the opening post.

muhsin:

Hmm.

Let me join MrCrackles in saying; good for you.

why are u a muslim?

noetic2:

why are u a muslim?

The reasons can't be said here, for they are numerous.
I'm a Muslims and will inshaAllah die as ONE.

muhsin:

The reasons[b] can't be said here, [/b]for they are numerous.
I'm a Muslims and will inshaAllah die as ONE.

are u ashamed of islam?

If not. . . .tell us why u are a muslim?

@Noetic2: You are not a Muslim, so to Muslims you are a Kufar! Now swallow that. Then read the following from Surah Zukhruf:

verses 14 and 15: These two verses tell us that we shall all die, so your hope to meet Jesus in the sky is empty. Also we are informed that no partnership with God/Allah is possible. Those who do set up partnership are completely wrong.

43:14 Muhsin Khan: And verily, to Our Lord we indeed are to return!
43:15 Muhsin Khan: Yet they assign to some of His slaves a share with Him (by pretending that He has children, and considering them as equals or co-partners in worship with Him). Verily, man is indeed a manifest ingrate!

Verses 57 through 68: Son of Mary is a slave, a prophet only.

43:57 Muhsin Khan: And when the son of Maryam (Mary) is quoted as an example [i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus) is worshipped like their idols), behold! Your people cry aloud (laugh out at the example).
43:58 Muhsin Khan: And say: "Are our aliha (gods) better or is he ['Iesa (Jesus)]?" They quoted not the above example except for argument. Nay! But they are a quarrelsome people. [(See VV. 21:97-101) - The Quran.]
43:59 Muhsin Khan: He ['Iesa (Jesus)] was not more than a slave. We granted Our Favour to him, and We made him an example to the Children of Israel (i.e. his creation without a father).
43:60 Muhsin Khan: And if it were Our Will, We would have [destroyed you (mankind) all, and] made angels to replace you on the earth. [Tafsir At-Tabari, Vol:25, Page 89].
43:61 Muhsin Khan: And he ['Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)] shall be a known sign for (the coming of) the Hour (Day of Resurrection) [i.e. 'Iesa's (Jesus) descent on the earth] . Therefore have no doubt concerning it (i.e. the Day of Resurrection). And follow Me (Allah) (i.e. be obedient to Allah and do what He orders you to do, O mankind)! This is the Straight Path (of Islamic Monotheism, leading to Allah and to His Paradise).
43:62 Muhsin Khan: And let not Shaitan (Satan) hinder you (from the right religion, i.e. Islamic Monotheism), Verily, he (Satan) to you is a plain enemy.
43:63 Muhsin Khan: And when 'Iesa (Jesus) came with (Our) clear Proofs, he said: "I have come to you with Al-Hikmah (Prophethood), and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) in which you differ, therefore fear Allah and obey me,
43:64 Muhsin Khan: "Verily, Allah! He is my Lord (God) and your Lord (God). So worship Him (Alone). This is the (only) Straight Path (i.e. Allah's religion of true Islamic Monotheism)."
43:65 Muhsin Khan: But the sects from among themselves differed. So woe to those who do wrong (by ascribing things to 'Iesa (Jesus) that are not true) from the torment of a painful Day (i.e. the Day of Resurrection)!
43:66 Muhsin Khan: Do they only wait for the Hour that it shall come upon them suddenly, while they perceive not?
43:67 Muhsin Khan: Friends on that Day will be foes one to another except Al-Muttaqun (pious - see V.2:2).
43:68 Muhsin Khan: (It will be said to the true believers of Islamic Monotheism): My worshippers! No fear shall be on you this Day, nor shall you grieve,

Know that Jesus is no more than an obedient prophet, sent like Moses before him, with a mission. And the core mission was the same for all messengers and prophets: There is One God, your Lord and mine. I am His messenger and or Prophet to you for guidance. So worship Him, and fear Him. Follow me as your leader.

Those who do not follow the messenger and or prophet of the time they live in are disbelievers. Those who ignored Jesus when he began his mission, but instead they stuck with Moses or any other that came before Jesus, even though as they see the signs of his messengership are disbelievers. Thats why the false covenant and salvation that the christians think that the Jews have is never going to be accepted by God of Jesus, in the day of Judgement.

In the same time those of us who are here now and choose to ignore Muhammad, even though we are alive in the reign of his prophetic mission are just disbelievers. No amount of ransome will be accepted from them by God. on that day when Only Allah is the Judge.

olabowale:

@Noetic2: You are not a Muslim, so to Muslims you are a Kufar! Now swallow that. Then read the following from Surah Zukhruf:

verses 14 and 15: These two verses tell us that we shall all die, so your hope to meet Jesus in the sky is empty. Also we are informed that no partnership with God/Allah is possible. Those who do set up partnership are completely wrong.

43:14 Muhsin Khan: And verily, to Our Lord we indeed are to return!
43:15 Muhsin Khan: Yet they assign to some of His slaves a share with Him (by pretending that He has children, and considering them as equals or co-partners in worship with Him). Verily, man is indeed a manifest ingrate!

Verses 57 through 68: Son of Mary is a slave, a prophet only.

43:57 Muhsin Khan: And when the son of Maryam (Mary) is quoted as an example [i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus) is worshipped like their idols), behold! Your people cry aloud (laugh out at the example).
43:58 Muhsin Khan: And say: "Are our aliha (gods) better or is he ['Iesa (Jesus)]?" They quoted not the above example except for argument. Nay! But they are a quarrelsome people. [(See VV. 21:97-101) - The Quran.]
43:59 Muhsin Khan: He ['Iesa (Jesus)] was not more than a slave. We granted Our Favour to him, and We made him an example to the Children of Israel (i.e. his creation without a father).
43:60 Muhsin Khan: And if it were Our Will, We would have [destroyed you (mankind) all, and] made angels to replace you on the earth. [Tafsir At-Tabari, Vol:25, Page 89].
43:61 Muhsin Khan: And he ['Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)] shall be a known sign for (the coming of) the Hour (Day of Resurrection) [i.e. 'Iesa's (Jesus) descent on the earth] . Therefore have no doubt concerning it (i.e. the Day of Resurrection). And follow Me (Allah) (i.e. be obedient to Allah and do what He orders you to do, O mankind)! This is the Straight Path (of Islamic Monotheism, leading to Allah and to His Paradise).
43:62 Muhsin Khan: And let not Shaitan (Satan) hinder you (from the right religion, i.e. Islamic Monotheism), Verily, he (Satan) to you is a plain enemy.
43:63 Muhsin Khan: And when 'Iesa (Jesus) came with (Our) clear Proofs, he said: "I have come to you with Al-Hikmah (Prophethood), and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) in which you differ, therefore fear Allah and obey me,
43:64 Muhsin Khan: "Verily, Allah! He is my Lord (God) and your Lord (God). So worship Him (Alone). This is the (only) Straight Path (i.e. Allah's religion of true Islamic Monotheism)."
43:65 Muhsin Khan: But the sects from among themselves differed. So woe to those who do wrong (by ascribing things to 'Iesa (Jesus) that are not true) from the torment of a painful Day (i.e. the Day of Resurrection)!
43:66 Muhsin Khan: Do they only wait for the Hour that it shall come upon them suddenly, while they perceive not?
43:67 Muhsin Khan: Friends on that Day will be foes one to another except Al-Muttaqun (pious - see V.2:2).
43:68 Muhsin Khan: (It will be said to the true believers of Islamic Monotheism): My worshippers! No fear shall be on you this Day, nor shall you grieve,

Know that Jesus is no more than an obedient prophet, sent like Moses before him, with a mission. And the core mission was the same for all messengers and prophets: There is One God, your Lord and mine. I am His messenger and or Prophet to you for guidance. So worship Him, and fear Him. Follow me as your leader.

Those who do not follow the messenger and or prophet of the time they live in are disbelievers. Those who ignored Jesus when he began his mission, but instead they stuck with Moses or any other that came before Jesus, even though as they see the signs of his messengership are disbelievers. Thats why the false covenant and salvation that the christians think that the Jews have is never going to be accepted by God of Jesus, in the day of Judgement.

In the same time those of us who are here now and choose to ignore Muhammad, even though we are alive in the reign of his prophetic mission are just disbelievers. No amount of ransome will be accepted from them by God. on that day when Only Allah is the Judge.

Whats the meaning of all this? . . . I believe there is a thread that discusses Jesus Vs Mohammed and the messiahship or prophethood of Jesus in islam.

CAN U JUST TELL ME WHY EXACTLY YOU ARE A MUSLIM? JUST LIST THE SALIENT REASONS WHY U ARE A MUSLIM. . . . .LIKE AN EDUCATED PERSON.

I am a muslim, because I do not want to be a Kufar, a disbeliever in One God. So I am not a Christian because it has 3 gods in its godship. I am not a Jew because it has denied some prophets, while the Christian also denied Muhammad (AS). Am not a member of other paganic idolatry religion or ideology because I hate to disobey my Lord. I believe in Allah (God) and I am not a denier of truth like Atheist/agnostic, etc, Hidu, etc, Jews or Christian!

I dislike having three lords and masters. I do know that three masters, each with full independent authorities, will definitely/like to upstage one another or two forming alliance to upstage the other not in the alliance. Do you feel me, man? Seriously.

As an Ijebu boy, I know that spilling of blood, especially of human is idolatry, like in the Alagemo of Ijebu Ode evil rituals. But my Allah has shown Mercy on me that a simple declaration (Shahadah) from my heart in sincerity, with my lips is enough!

Allah has guaranteed me Jannah. While disbelievers are guaranteed Jahannam, if they die on that belief. By the way, the disbelievers are warned about the certainty of Hell. This warning is a Mercy from Allah, since "before armed is to before warned!"

Will you therefore not take admonition, Noetic?

olabowale:

I am a muslim, because I do not want to be a Kufar, a disbeliever in One God. So I am not a Christian because it has 3 gods in its godship. I am not a Jew because it has denied some prophets, while the Christian also denied Muhammad (AS). Am not a member of other paganic idolatry religion or ideology because I hate to disobey my Lord. I believe in Allah (God) and I am not a denier of truth like Atheist/agnostic, etc, Hidu, etc, Jews or Christian!

I dislike having three lords and masters. I do know that three masters, each with full independent authorities, will definitely/like to upstage one another or two forming alliance to upstage the other not in the alliance. Do you feel me, man? Seriously.

What are the benefits of being/not being a kufar?

what happened to the three daughters of allah?. , .what happened to allat? . . . . .who was the allah that mohammed's father was worshipping?

As an Ijebu boy, I know that spilling of blood, especially of human is idolatry, like in the Alagemo of Ijebu Ode evil rituals. But my Allah has shown Mercy on me that a simple declaration (Shahadah) from my heart in sincerity, with my lips is enough!

Whaoo. . . , This is bold statement. Lets assume u are right.

I have shown in the OP where allah guarantees heaven for blood spilling terrorists and his subsequent demand for JIHAD. Does meeting this taste of allah not amount to idolatry? by participating in jihad to make heaven, wouldnt ur blood spilling be likened to idolatry?


What is ur proof that allah honours the prayers of ur lips?

Allah has guaranteed me Jannah. While disbelievers are guaranteed Jahannam, if they die on that belief. By the way, the disbelievers are warned about the certainty of Hell. This warning is a Mercy from Allah, since "before armed is to before warned!"

Will you therefore not take admonition, Noetic?

When? where? how? why?

@Noetic2: If i answr all your concerns or misgivings, with clear verses from the Qur'an, will you then become Muslim, if in addition, I can dissuade you by your Bible, that Jesus or anybody that ever walked the surface of this earth is not GodThe Creator and The Judge of the Day of Judgement?

Answer me man, because you will be doing youeself a lot of good if you are sincere. I am inviting you to Paradise (success) and you want to invite me to Hell (failure). Which one of us wishes the other a lot of good?

olabowale:

@Noetic2: If i answr all your concerns or misgivings, with clear verses from the Qur'an, will you then become Muslim, if in addition, I can dissuade you by your Bible, that Jesus or anybody that ever walked the surface of this earth is not GodThe Creator and The Judge of the Day of Judgement?

Answer me man, because you will be doing youeself a lot of good if you are sincere. I am inviting you to Paradise (success) and you want to invite me to Hell (failure). Which one of us wishes the other a lot of good?

Please do answer all my questions. You can start by answering the ones from the last post.

Why would u use the bible to prove islam? I thought the bible is "corrupt"?
What paradise are u talking about? I though allah promised all muslims a place in hell?

noetic2:

You already know why I am not an atheist. I feel it is fair I also tell u why I am not a muslim.


1. The unfair Reward:

I think that the reward for service (assuming I was a devout muslim) to Allah is very unfair. Take for instance the tenets of islam encourages me:

To profess Allah (as my "GOD" and mohammed (as a "prophet"
to spend my hard earned dollars/pounds to embark on an annual pilgrimage to mecca and meddina (Hajj)
fast annually as a service to islam (sawm)
have as many "temporary" marriages as possible excluding the 4 wives I am entitled to
To pray 5 times daily (salah)
To give alms to the poor (Zakah)
To kill, deystroy, annihilate and excommunicate defenceless people because they don't acknowledge Allah (Jihad).

Now as a muslim (if I were one) I dont have a problem doing all of these above. My major problem is the reward. Hear what Allah says :

There will be no one of you who will not enter it (Hell).
This was an inevitable decree of your Lord.
-- Sura 19:71-72


Why should I be subjected to the torments of hell like other "unbelievers" after I have done so much for allah? Why should allah ever reward a faithful me like this. . . why? why allah, why?


Depending on how I look at it I have another comfortable route to escape hell fire. . , hear what allah says:

And if ye are SLAIN, or[b] DIE[/b], in the way of Allah,
forgiveness and mercy from Allah are far better than all they could amass.
And if ye DIE, or are SLAIN, Lo! it is unto Allah that ye are brought together.
-- Sura 3:157-158

Think not of those who are SLAIN in Allah's way as dead.
Nay, they live, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord;
-- Sura 3:169

Whaooo . . . .All I have to do now is fight jihad (suicide bombing, terorrism et all) and I will be fine with allah . . , Though I am promised even more reward (72 virgins) by the words of the "prophet"
hear him:
Nobody who enters Paradise will ever like to return to this world even if he were offered everything, except the martyr who will desire to return to this world and be killed 10 times for the sake of the great honour that has been bestowed upon him'." [Sahih Muslim, chapters 781, 782, The Merit of Jihad and the Merit of Martyrdom.]

On the other hand if I were a woman . . . what would I get? 72 men to shag me for eternity?

I am also not comfortable being called a messenger. After living and growing up in an african environment where maids did all the chores, I understand that they are usually 2nd/3rd or even 4th class citizens, they are uncared for and experience no genuie love, neither do they have a meaningful relationship with their "masters" . . . .so why EXACTLY should I be anyone's slave?
Or is there anywhere in the koran where allah was called FATHER? is there anywhere in the koran where he proffesed LOVE to muslims? . , I am genuinely desperate for answers.

What is salvation in islam? how I do I know my sins have been redeemed? apart from jihad (killing others) is there any other way I can get to heaven?

The tenets of islam I am comfortable with except JIHAD . . . what I dont like is the fact that no matter what I do, I am merely a messenger who will end up in hell by the ordinance of allah.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2002/jan/12/books.guardianreview5

2. Women/Human rights violation. . . .Negation to my Conscience

OK. I am very very very uncomfortable with the women/human rights abuses prevalent in islam. I dont know if it is koranic or cultural. But the prevalent nature of honour killings, holy jihad, suicide bombing, extensive wife beating, temporary marriages, divorcing by saying it 3 times and lots of underage marriage are islamic norms I would not want my sister/daughter to EVER experience.

Here is a detailed EVIDENCE that islam supports all of these attrocities against womenhood.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/childbrides.htm


3. Inconsistencies of Allah

I and other non-muslims have been asking repeatedly if Allah is the same as Jehovah God of the bible?
For a fact we know that mohammed's father is called Abdallah . . . .meaning slave of allah. Bear in mind that mohammed's father died before mohammed was born, so who was the allah that mohammed's father was worshipping?

Well history also tells us of an "allah" that existed before the birth of mohammed. He had a wife called "Allat" together they had three daughters who were worshipped by the people of saudi arabia. their daughters are al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat. This allah was worshipped in the ka'aba.

Is there any reason to believe that this is not the same idolic allah (pre-mohammed) that is now being paraded as today's Allah. . . .alledgedly equivalent to the bible GOD?

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-allahs-daughters.htm

why does allah not encourage forgiveness? why must anyone caught stealing be amputated or beheaded? including children who steal cos of poverty.

I am not justifying anything. . . I just consider this heartless and very unfair.


4. Inconsistencies of Mohammed

Let me state here that I have nothing against mo. But as an historical figure who is being used by his followers as the yard stick for morality in today's world, it is pertinent he is placed under the scrutiny of human microscopic analysis.

It has been repeatedly established that mohammed had a sexual relationship with a 9 year old girl (Aisha).
It has been repeatedly established that pre-mohammed, this under-age marriage or sexual relations was uncultural.
It has been repeatedly established that muslims all over the world now see this deed of mo, as one worth emulating.

would u let ur 9 year old daughter/sister have sexual relations with an adult?

For me the answer is NO. . . .as such I detest . . . .

http://www.middle-east-info.org/gateway/womenchildabuse/

5. Endless violence/ Terrorism/ Unforgiveness

You have seen from point one that I would only make it to heaven if I am a terrorist (jihadist), otherwise I am hell-bound by the ordinance of allah.
You have seen from point one that Allah sees me as a slave and nothing more.
You have seen from point two that my daughter/sister are unprotected from abuse according to the tenets of islam.
You have seen from point three that there are NO differences between the allah who preceded mo and the one he introduced.

You have also seen from point three that at the slightest mistake, it is convinient for allah to ask mohammedans to chop off my hand or behead me for "sinning". . .without recourse to mercy or forgiveness.


Do u know ANY reason why I should be a Muslim?

is mohammed a prophet?
what were his prophecies?
what were his miracles?

There is absolutely no reason why I should EVER call mohammed a prophet.

6. A better Package

I dont want to go to hell after all my service to allah. There is hope of eternity in Christ Jesus.

Are u a muslim? . . . .Why are u a muslim?
Are u a non-muslim ?. . . . Why are u not a muslim?

Good good for you . .anything else?

mukina2:

Good good for you . .anything else?

why are u a muslim?

There are so words u shudnt use freely.

All you have listed if only u understand the meaning of each.

I cant remember when jihad became killing of people.why nt spend much time in reading and understanding.

@Noetic2: I am not a Messenger or Prophet (AS) of Allah (SWA). Hence I do not have their special qualities of being very very patient, etc. Now, as an ordinary human being, if you want my valuable time to read your long list of lies and respond to each, then you need to stand up to my requst about you becoming Muslim, if I succeed in disproofing your written opinion. I think that just as much as you have stood up to falsely accused Islam, as you did above, it is my obligation to defend it with the truth, as I will correct you. It is therefore to accept my challenge and walk the gauntlet, if you are sure that your list was just not empty rhethorics!

I will spend valuable time researching the Quran to disprove you. Hence I want my immediate reward. I want you to stand up to the challenge. If you are sure that you are correct then it should not be take so much than just a moment for you to sign on my proposal. I think it is a fair demand from me. I see that you are unsure of what you said, so I count you as one of the liars and I will only respond to your empty allegations about Islam, when you have the gull that every human should have to stand up to my challenge.

Now if I accuse Christianity about any ormany things and you think am not correct about, you can also challenge me in the same way. I will immediately accept your challenge, if what I wrote is true. Now I can tell you here and now that I know that your Bible is corrupt. This means that you have no single Bible that is as exactly in textural quality, etc as when it was first revealed/given/spoken/read. For example the Torah which is the Book of Moses (AS), Psalm the Book of King David (AS) and Gospel the Book of Jesus son of Mary (AS) are all not in the original word for word, as each was in the lifetime of the prophet whom I have mentioned the Book with!

My proofs are many: One is that you can not have a Torah, Psalm or Gospel that can be traced back to the period of the prophets, as mentioned above. There is none of those Books in the language (Aramaic; a semitic language) spoken by the said prophet, that we can find that will go far to that very time of of the prophet! You know there is at least carbon dating process about written words and water test about papers/sheets to determine how old and the period they first exsted! If the Christians have any of these books that can go far to the period of the Prophets, they would used the said method or even a more soffisticated one to determine and proudly announce their findings!

Afterall, the oldest or most ancient "Manuscript (LOL)" is not even close to anytime the prophet (AS) was alive, individually. THe one among them that lived most recently was Jesus. If we don't even find his own Gospel in his generation, imagine how impossible it will be to find a Psalm of David or even worse, the Torah of Moses! These proves that your Book is corrupt. And corruption means impure. The degree of impurity is not what we are talking about here. As long as it is not 100% pure, it is corrupt, at least a little!

THe Bible is not 100% word of God, withour any percentage of word of man, on the pages. The Bible has Allah has states in the Quran, have proven to us about its own man influence by the entries of Paul in Corinthians and Galathians. These and others have not only proven the impurity of your Bible, but it is proving the very verse in the Quran that states that your Bible is corrupt and that Allah Himself stands as the Guarantor of the purity of Quran.

So when you go to the Shia, you will find the same Quran as you will find with nonShia. The Ahmaddiyyans use the same Quran as nonAhmadiyyans. But we do not find the same condition in your Christian community; as we already know that the Catholic Douwy is different from the Protestant KJ, and many others. Should I remind you of the Mormons, or the Jehovah's Witness?

Now the very foundation of yur religion Christianity hinges on the godship of Jesus, and or his godsonship and or his death on the cross and or his rising from such death after 3 days.rom your Bible I will prove to you that non of it is true. Let me help you; Jesus said that his sign when his disbelievng followers wanted a sign so that they can be sure of his very person as a prophet (never a time they asked him if He was the Creator the Almighty God and he came to earth, The purpose in this case is not important now), was the same exact sign of Jonas, but only that the whale is now the earth! If Jesus was speaking the truth; the since Jonas did not die, and alive before being swallowed, and still alive as he was entering the mouth of the whale, alive when he finally settled in the belly of the whale, alive all the while he was in there, all the three days, alive when he was finally spitted/vomitted out by the whale, then Jesus must have to be alive all through his ordeal; from before being put on the cross, throughout that period, (no wonder blood flowed freely as normal in his body), alive when he was taking limply of the cross, alive throughout the period of incomplete 3 days in the cave and no wonder he was alive as he emerged on Sunday morning, just after dawn!

And his ordeal started off the cross just before dusk on Friday and ended just after dawn on Sunday. How is that 3 days for a Jew? I want you to chalenge me, with good thinking. Oh I forgot, everything defies logic in Christianity, even death or being alive! Lets eave the Muslims and Christians alone in this conversation. We should deal strictly with the Books: Quran and Bible. I will even allow you to seek protection. I will not ask you to bear the problems of the Torah of the Jews or thei Psalm. Afterall, Jesus was enough for you and the Books of the Old Testament is compressed to a single sentence of one line "Love God and your neighbor!"

But Noetic2, if you make the mistake of going to the OT, I will use it liberally to disprove you. I will rest for for since I hope you will be strong enough to take the bait of my challenge. I will not waste any time on you if you are not bold enough to stand by your claims. Seriously!

@neotic,

You will need to tell me the one which is better, woshiping God or woshiping God created being? If you believe someone is higher than Jesus of whom he cried to when he was about to be killed, then, who should you woship? Jesus or God? Claiming Christianity as a religion is total a failure coz it was never known by any God's prophets even Jesus. The believe accepted to nature is nothing other Islam, meaning submission to the will and commands of one God. You will need to tell the meaning of your christianity according to bible. Now, you will need to establish the believe of Jesus whom you claimed you followed. If you can't proof the same believe to convince me the truth in your bible including all the falsehood statement of Jesus, then, you are a liar.

If I may I asked you what is the most common message of all the prophets right from when Adam was created, is it trinity or one God? If I asked you who created heaven and earth, is it Jesus or God or both or both in one. If I may asked you why Jesus was sent to the world, according to your bible for peace, for sword or for atonement of sins? Then why Allah created paradise and hell? If I cant get a convincing statement from you, then, you are liar. Then, christianity is nothing other than fake. Islam has not come up with confusion or try to justify what is not understandable. I believe the same thing should apply to your thinking not hooking up lies against not being a muslim

Alhmadulilah, I am a muslim not a christian or jew:
A Muslim is one who believes in One God. It is forbidden by Allah(God) for us to believe in or serve anyone other than Himself as a god. He warns us not to set up an equal with Him, as He was the One in the beginning from whom everything had its beginning and will be the One God from which everything will end. He is independent, having no need of anyone’s help, but on the other hand, upon Him we all depend. It is the highest of ignorance for us to choose a God or attempt to make something as an equal to Him. Foolish people all over the earth have been for the past 6,000 years, and still are, trying to make an equal to Allah(God). He has no beginning, nor is there any end of Him. How, O foolish man, how can you make an equal for a One? or try to justify foolishness of trinity or confused sin atonement? Naturally, I am a muslim coz it refrain from all colorations of confusion of God identity. It is very clear from the way Abraham, Moses, jesus and Muhammad (SAW) describe it; Worship only one God.

Am waiting for you, man? I read your opening post. I have answers ready for you, if you have the gull to accept my challenge. What tribe are you from, in Nigeria, man? I believe that the Yorubas used to know about Oluwa, Olorun, Eledumare, Eleda, etc meaning God before Christianity came and before Islam arrived there.

Today, the Christians (Kiriyos) in Yoruba language still use the words; Olorun, Oluwa, Eledumare, Eleda, etc to mean God. They have not changed or amended any of the word, and the meanings and Who it is each stands for; The Creator. The same goes for the Yoruba Muslims. I know that when I speak to my Muslim family member(s) or my mother who is now a muslim, I use the same word; Olorun, Eleda, etc, to mean Allah/God. And I will not mean Jehovah/Yahweh or the human christian god either. No sir. Let me not over kill, as I will like to lure you to stand up to my challenge.


I can not but chuckle at your ignorance and actually, worse your evilness that you are proud that your father own house maids/helps wich you a man in England, used to treat very badly. Shame on you Noetic2. You are chaotic in thought. Human beings, because of their financial and social conditions are 1/2 humans or even less than that? I wonder if you will blame the White Englishman who thinks that you are less than them because you are Black and african not European and white?

If this is your reason for not wanting to be called a slave/servant of Allah/God, go to your Bible where Jesus called himself servant and or you his servant or the servant of his Lord, Eloi. What are you  gonna do about if if Jesus says that you are his slave/servant, since you or the disciples and apostles called him your master? You must be lying then calling yourself son of God, while you are just a common slave or servant of a man who was unable to know the time of the hour, nor was not able to disallow the devil to tempt him at all. Remember the three temptations?

I got your number man, as soon as you take up my challenge, I will unload on you. InshaAllah!

@Noetic2: The verse 71 of Chapter 19, did not say muslims will go or enter hell, you terrible reader of english writing. When you take up the challenge I will quote it exactly in English before I go to the Quranic writing. Pilgrim.1, Davidylan and co have failed badly in this same matter. I know each one of you always play blindman when it comes to seeing/reading the truth.

@Noetic

CAN U JUST TELL ME WHY EXACTLY YOU ARE A MUSLIM? JUST LIST THE SALIENT REASONS WHY U ARE A MUSLIM. . . . .LIKE AN EDUCATED PERSON.

I have tasted christianity (once a christian) and others but found no salvation, joy, happiness, peace of mind as I have in Islam.

arramyjay:

There are so words u shudnt use freely.

All you have listed if only u understand the meaning of each.

I cant remember when jihad became killing of people.why nt spend much time in reading and understanding.

are u educated at all?

why are u a muslim?

olabowale:

@Noetic2: I am not a Messenger or Prophet (AS) of Allah (SWA). Hence I do not have their special qualities of being very very patient, etc. Now, as an ordinary human being, if you want my valuable time to read your long list of lies and respond to each, then you need to stand up to my requst about you becoming Muslim, if I succeed in disproofing your written opinion. I think that just as much as you have stood up to falsely accused Islam, as you did above, it is my obligation to defend it with the truth, as I will correct you. It is therefore to accept my challenge and walk the gauntlet, if you are sure that your list was just not empty rhethorics!

I will spend valuable time researching the Quran to disprove you. Hence I want my immediate reward. I want you to stand up to the challenge. If you are sure that you are correct then it should not be take so much than just a moment for you to sign on my proposal. I think it is a fair demand from me. I see that you are unsure of what you said, so I count you as one of the liars and I will only respond to your empty allegations about Islam, when you have the gull that every human should have to stand up to my challenge.

Now if I accuse Christianity about any ormany things and you think am not correct about, you can also challenge me in the same way. I will immediately accept your challenge, if what I wrote is true. Now I can tell you here and now that I know that your Bible is corrupt. This means that you have no single Bible that is as exactly in textural quality, etc as when it was first revealed/given/spoken/read. For example the Torah which is the Book of Moses (AS), Psalm the Book of King David (AS) and Gospel the Book of Jesus son of Mary (AS) are all not in the original word for word, as each was in the lifetime of the prophet whom I have mentioned the Book with!

My proofs are many: One is that you can not have a Torah, Psalm or Gospel that can be traced back to the period of the prophets, as mentioned above. There is none of those Books in the language (Aramaic; a semitic language) spoken by the said prophet, that we can find that will go far to that very time of of the prophet! You know there is at least carbon dating process about written words and water test about papers/sheets to determine how old and the period they first exsted! If the Christians have any of these books that can go far to the period of the Prophets, they would used the said method or even a more soffisticated one to determine and proudly announce their findings!

Afterall, the oldest or most ancient "Manuscript (LOL)" is not even close to anytime the prophet (AS) was alive, individually. THe one among them that lived most recently was Jesus. If we don't even find his own Gospel in his generation, imagine how impossible it will be to find a Psalm of David or even worse, the Torah of Moses! These proves that your Book is corrupt. And corruption means impure. The degree of impurity is not what we are talking about here. As long as it is not 100% pure, it is corrupt, at least a little!

THe Bible is not 100% word of God, withour any percentage of word of man, on the pages. The Bible has Allah has states in the Quran, have proven to us about its own man influence by the entries of Paul in Corinthians and Galathians. These and others have not only proven the impurity of your Bible, but it is proving the very verse in the Quran that states that your Bible is corrupt and that Allah Himself stands as the Guarantor of the purity of Quran.

So when you go to the Shia, you will find the same Quran as you will find with nonShia. The Ahmaddiyyans use the same Quran as nonAhmadiyyans. But we do not find the same condition in your Christian community; as we already know that the Catholic Douwy is different from the Protestant KJ, and many others. Should I remind you of the Mormons, or the Jehovah's Witness?

Now the very foundation of yur religion Christianity hinges on the godship of Jesus, and or his godsonship and or his death on the cross and or his rising from such death after 3 days.rom your Bible I will prove to you that non of it is true. Let me help you; Jesus said that his sign when his disbelievng followers wanted a sign so that they can be sure of his very person as a prophet (never a time they asked him if He was the Creator the Almighty God and he came to earth, The purpose in this case is not important now), was the same exact sign of Jonas, but only that the whale is now the earth! If Jesus was speaking the truth; the since Jonas did not die, and alive before being swallowed, and still alive as he was entering the mouth of the whale, alive when he finally settled in the belly of the whale, alive all the while he was in there, all the three days, alive when he was finally spitted/vomitted out by the whale, then Jesus must have to be alive all through his ordeal; from before being put on the cross, throughout that period, (no wonder blood flowed freely as normal in his body), alive when he was taking limply of the cross, alive throughout the period of incomplete 3 days in the cave and no wonder he was alive as he emerged on Sunday morning, just after dawn!

And his ordeal started off the cross just before dusk on Friday and ended just after dawn on Sunday. How is that 3 days for a Jew? I want you to chalenge me, with good thinking. Oh I forgot, everything defies logic in Christianity, even death or being alive! Lets eave the Muslims and Christians alone in this conversation. We should deal strictly with the Books: Quran and Bible. I will even allow you to seek protection. I will not ask you to bear the problems of the Torah of the Jews or thei Psalm. Afterall, Jesus was enough for you and the Books of the Old Testament is compressed to a single sentence of one line "Love God and your neighbor!"

But Noetic2, if you make the mistake of going to the OT, I will use it liberally to disprove you. I will rest for for since I hope you will be strong enough to take the bait of my challenge. I will not waste any time on you if you are not bold enough to stand by your claims. Seriously!

Whats the meaning of all these u are stating?. . . . . do u think I am interested in frivolities?

Simply answer the questions raised if u can . . . . .if u have other issues open a new thread for them.

answer the relevant questions asked. . . . .and succinctly defend the reasons why u are a muslim.

littleb:

@neotic,

You will need to tell me the one which is better, woshiping God or woshiping God created being? If you believe someone is higher than Jesus of whom he cried to when he was about to be killed, then, who should you woship? Jesus or God? Claiming Christianity as a religion is total a failure coz it was never known by any God's prophets even Jesus. The believe accepted to nature is nothing other Islam, meaning submission to the will and commands of one God. You will need to tell the meaning of your christianity according to bible. Now, you will need to establish the believe of Jesus whom you claimed you followed. If you can't proof the same believe to convince me the truth in your bible including all the falsehood statement of Jesus, then, you are a liar.

If I may I asked you what is the most common message of all the prophets right from when Adam was created, is it trinity or one God? If I asked you who created heaven and earth, is it Jesus or God or both or both in one. If I may asked you why Jesus was sent to the world, according to your bible for peace, for sword or for atonement of sins? Then why Allah created paradise and hell? If I cant get a convincing statement from you, then, you are liar. Then, christianity is nothing other than fake. Islam has not come up with confusion or try to justify what is not understandable. I believe the same thing should apply to your thinking not hooking up lies against not being a muslim

Alhmadulilah, I am a muslim not a christian or jew:
A Muslim is one who believes in One God. It is forbidden by Allah(God) for us to believe in or serve anyone other than Himself as a god. He warns us not to set up an equal with Him, as He was the One in the beginning from whom everything had its beginning and will be the One God from which everything will end. He is independent, having no need of anyone’s help, but on the other hand, upon Him we all depend. It is the highest of ignorance for us to choose a God or attempt to make something as an equal to Him. Foolish people all over the earth have been for the past 6,000 years, and still are, trying to make an equal to Allah(God). He has no beginning, nor is there any end of Him. How, O foolish man, how can you make an equal for a One? or try to justify foolishness of trinity or confused sin atonement? Naturally, I am a muslim coz it refrain from all colorations of confusion of God identity. It is very clear from the way Abraham, Moses, jesus and Muhammad (SAW) describe it; Worship only one God.

I know u have salient points. . . . . but please be objective.

Start by telling me why EXACTLY you are a muslim?

@Noetic

Start by telling me why EXACTLY you are a muslim?

Did you read my post at all? I was like you before accepting Islam, my siblings follow suit, my father did as well but still praying for my mother.

I was born a christian but learnt that it cannot offer salvation and most of Jesus' words have been twisted. Christianity no longer follow Jesus' teachings but that of Paul.

I have tasted christianity (once a christian) and others but found no salvation, joy, happiness, peace of mind as I have in Islam.

babs787:

@Noetic


I have tasted christianity (once a christian) and others but found no salvation, joy, happiness, peace of mind as I have in Islam.

When u left christianity . . . . why did u not worship oya, obatala, sango?

Why did u not become an atheist? why did u not become a Buddhist?

why are u a muslim?

PS. I am not interested in any frivolity . . . . .simply answer the relevant questions.

@Noetic2: In my native yoruba expession; I honestly classify you as "eni ti o ni nkan she".  In simple straight forward today's expresion; you are a time waster. Reason is that you can't even state to us all that if your statement is wrong, since I am ready to prove eah and everyone of them so, you at least be ready to take shahadah. And I also state that I will prove to you that your Bible is corrupt, and that there is nothing actually amounting to Trinity in the heart of beleievers, and that Jesus is not a God, but a god (idol) in the eye of you, an idolator, and that Jesus is not the savior of you and not a prophet of your time!

Can you at least step up to this challenge of mine?! Fela said in one of his old songs; Man dey staaand, ,
Noetic, stand like a man, man. You can't even copy out the verse 71 of Surah Mariam, correctly. By the way, did you read the verses after 71, to the end of the chapter. It might worth your salvation if you read it.

You will find that Allah the Almighty says that Jesus and all things in heavens and earth are but "come to Him as slaves and servants!" And no one will be able to make intercession on the day of Judgement, except the one or ones that He Allah allows.

Considering that Allah is making this statement to His Messenger Muhammad (AS), it is not difficult to know that Muhammad is the one if its one person that will intercede. Allah says Muhammad rasulullah. And the disbelievers may not be happy, but Islam will be victorious. At last on the day of Judgement, Islam will be victorious. Muhammad (AS) will lead believers to paradise, while disbelievers and their friend, the devil will be herded to hell.

Which camp are you gonna be in, Noetic. It will be chaotic in hell. And never will there be peace in there.

Noetic is talking about "Unfair reward" when he opened his thread. And he immediately closed that section with a wrong quote of Surah Mariam verse 71. He concluded that Muslims will enter hell, without any question. All without any exception. That will include the prophet (AS) or prophets (AS) and those who followed them (muslims)!

Indeed, it is an unfair reward, if it is true that all muslims will enter hell, first. But that is not what many verses of the Quran pointed to. In Fatiha, Allah talks about believers praying and been answered with guidiance on the straight path. I am certain that a Merciful God (Rahman) will not turn around and throw them to Hell!

Surah Baqarah immediately start with describing believers, and separate them by deeds from disbeleieving mankind. Let me go directly to Surah Kahf which is a recommended read every friday (from Thursday dusk to Friday dusk; Same calculation as the Children of Israel), towards the end, verses 107 and 108, that the believers (true Muslims) will enter Paradise. A place where there is no hardship. But wait in verses 105 and 106, Allah says about the condition of the disbelievers in their relationship to prophet and prophethood, and the abode of the disbelievers; hell!

Even if I stop here, it is very clear that Allah intends no hell for His Prophets and true believers, mumin, muslims except hypocrites; munafiqun among them. But Allah make s it clear that all disbelievers shall enter hell.

So Noetic, it is chaotic that ou deduce a wrong conclusion from Verse 71 of Surah Mariam. But by the way who is unfair to himself for looking for unfair advantage/reward, except those people who think that some man died for their sins, on a cross! Where is it written that a bearer of burden will bear burden of other people? Is anything practicable about this? Is that anything fair about this, even when the christians; noetic for example says that he will not die and flies off to the sky?

Who is closer to Jesus, Noetic or a disciple? Yet the disciple died already! Will Noetic escape death? Never. My man, you are on the wrong side of reality!

Surah Nasr, is so short. But it stated about not only the that Muhammad will die (those who have no knowledge will not see it), in addition, when the victory (nasr) of Allah comes to you (oh Muslims), and the people are entering Islam in drove, praise Allah and your asking for forgiveness will be accepted (forgiveness of sin, which leads to prevention from entering hell).

Where do you have your idea that muslims will enter hell? Do you think christians will escape it, if a single muslim enters hell? Noooooo!

@neotic,
Why are you so much worried about the reasons for muslims being a muslim when you already know Islam means submission to the will and commands of Allah. I think it is you who need to face the challenge and defend your opening post.

A medical Doctor was killed in the US because of his performances of abortions. Guess who killed this man? A truly devoted Christian. His friend who was interviewed on CNN said that this "killer" is a devoted christian who read the word, eeryday! Such a malaque!

The same people who will kill adults who are already contributing to the society, will be claiming that they are protecting unborn, whose quality is not known, yet.

They play God and they complain about ignorant people from the rank of muslims who are doing the same.

And before David has something to say; you need to know that Masjid on 91st and 3rd avenue in Manhattan held conference and condemn any and all aspect of terrorism already. The Imam declared it is unIslamic. I have been saying that since day One. I guess the funk from lake Erie will not let you hear it, or read my entries about it all the while. You too, Dollar woman (lol) $Osisi.


Noetic, why are you a christian?