3strike:


This must be some kind of joke....God forbid I have any tenant that wants to go this path o.

diordaves:


Yes you covered the bases but left uncovered the fundamental facts:

Was the Doctor living rent free at the private hostel? If yes, why move to a property he now needs to pay rent?

Is it normal for a medical Doctor who is married and has worked for a very long time to live in a private hostel? Any prospecting tenant who lives in a hostel has failed the social stability test. Red flag!!! Only adult with domestic or mental problems live in hostels.

I can only hazard a guess what's probably happening with this tenant. It is possible that the Doctor has a project going; either putting up a clinic or at the finishing stage of a property. So he's deliberately withholding the payment of rent and in a mad and determined rush to complete the project and move instead of paying that yearly rent. I've seen this happen time and time again in the business. If this is not the case then it's a case of affordability.

It's a rough business,When they results to withholding rent money,just to rush,finish their own project and move in at the expense of their landlord.

Lawd have mercy,but it's fact in many cases.

Good morning my Prince. Still expecting to hear from you. have a great day.

Some other issues

Rent increase maximum is set at 25 percent over 3 years.

Notices
No notice. Fixed term ends at the end of the fixed term.(form TL5)
7 days - tenant at will
1 month -- monthly tenant
3 months - quarterly and half yearly tenants.
6 months - yearly tenants.

i don't think it's a great idea to build for rent in Nigeria because it takes like forever to recoup your capital plus most Nigerians are thieves and liars who would like to take advantage of you regardless of how much is their annual income. those of you attacking igbo people should have courtesy to modify their posts to a more acceptable tone, i have more than enough stories of bad Yoruba tenants here in the north not to talk of their reputation for hygiene and noise making.

Where are the landlords n landladies...una don collect rent now...person no hear from una again..
Welldone!

abouzaid:
i don't think it's a great idea to build for rent in Nigeria because it takes like forever to recoup your capital plus most Nigerians are thieves and liars who would like to take advantage of you regardless of how much is their annual income. those of you attacking igbo people should have courtesy to modify their posts to a more acceptable tone, i have more than enough stories of bad Yoruba tenants here in the north not to talk of their reputation for hygiene and noise making.

The nature of a lot of the 9ja person means no business is a walk in the park. You always will need the tools of the trade and make it work for you.

Welcome home hope say you dey enjoy your trip.

I visited the Citizens Mediation Centre and went on Thursday and tenant invitation is for less than 2 weeks so far so good will update as we make progress. Cost so far N50 for photocopy and only two people in front of us so process was painless.

3strike:
Where are the landlords n landladies...una don collect rent now...person no hear from una again..
Welldone!

Madam how na? ..Was in with my family for only 1 week o to see the house. We Breezed in n breeze(d) out. Was able to set the ball rolling for the meters....thanks so much for that contact info @ Agungi lekki nepa office ( helpful)...

Regards!

3strike:
Madam how na? ..Was in with my family for only 1 week o to see the house. We Breezed in n breeze(d) out. Was able to set the ball rolling for the meters....thanks so much for that contact info @ Agungi lekki nepa office ( helpful)...

Regards!

Anytime. Happy to have been of help.

Landlords n landladies how una dey? Hope tenants dey behave well....keep us posted how things dey go.

Had an opportunity to test out CMC with 3 defaulting tenants and it was done and dusted in 8 working days. We achieved our objectives.

important that there was clarity on
1) No tenant is entitled to free rent. One day or 6 months.
2) Term certain tenancies comes with 7 days notice after end of term.
3)As tenants can give notice so also landlord.

So are you saying you got the tenants evicted within 8 woking days or the court decision was made in 8 days?
Just trying to understand the process more.
Any more light you can shed on this will be appreciated.

gabbytabby:
Had an opportunity to test out CMC with 3 defaulting tenants and it was done and dusted in 8 working days. We achieved our objectives.

important that there was clarity on
1) No tenant is entitled to free rent. One day or 6 months.
2) Term certain tenancies comes with 7 days notice after end of term.
3)As tenants can give notice so also landlord.

Hello Madam.

With the CMC, what is the level of their authority ? Is it presided over by a high court judge or state judge etc or state ministry of justice lawyers ?
Also

Is it that they tell the landlord/tenant that look, if this case enter court no chance of winning so take our advice ?
What was the process of dragging your tenants to CMC ?
How did you find them and did you have to issue summons to tenants ?
Which CMC was it as i read there are a few scattered in lagos ?
Do you feel that the CMC visit could have been done by a representative ?
What documents do you have to go there with, I guess just a tenancy document ?

Thanks in advance.

gabbytabby:
Had an opportunity to test out CMC with 3 defaulting tenants and it was done and dusted in 8 working days. We achieved our objectives.

important that there was clarity on
1) No tenant is entitled to free rent. One day or 6 months.
2) Term certain tenancies comes with 7 days notice after end of term.
3)As tenants can give notice so also landlord.

I wish. The decision was done in 8 working days.

brag3:
So are you saying you got the tenants evicted within 8 woking days or the court decision was made in 8 days?
Just trying to understand the process more.
Any more light you can shed on this will be appreciated.

The decision is enforceable and for eviction if tenant does not go at appointed date a court bailiff eviction is processed. A lawyer of the ministry of justice is always present to clarify the point of law. This migth be the only person or there might be additional people usually for CMC with large client usage.

A tenant or a landlord can approach the CMC. They issue summons to the other party which the initiator serves on the other party or you pay transport and their staff will serve. The courts can also compulsorily refer cases to the CMC.

The initiator states their complaints and prayer(what they want out of the process) the other side is told to respond. To and froing goes on until an agreement is reached. The ministry of justice lawyers clarifies the point of law as necessary and documents the agreement


From the landlord side the main reasons for application is usually
1) None payment of rent and/or service charge
2) Tenant nuisance particularly intolerable nuisance.
3) Landlord need flat for personal use
4) Repairs need to be carried out
5) other tenancy contraventions or infractions

We have a general rent escalation timeline that we follow unless we have strong indication that tenant cannot pay then the goal is to minimise our loss.

A representative can do it. It could be a lawyer or an agent who is aware of the issues or briefed. One tenant was represented although still personally presemt. You definitely need to have copy of tenancy. You could also bring relevant correspondence.

I initially looked online for CMC close to the property. The one in ibeju(igando oloja) is the only one in the lekki/ajah/epe area.

mavverick:
Hello Madam.

With the CMC, what is the level of their authority ? Is it presided over by a high court judge or state judge etc or state ministry of justice lawyers ?
Also

Is it that they tell the landlord/tenant that look, if this case enter court no chance of winning so take our advice ?
What was the process of dragging your tenants to CMC ?
How did you find them and did you have to issue summons to tenants ?
Which CMC was it as i read there are a few scattered in lagos ?
Do you feel that the CMC visit could have been done by a representative ?
What documents do you have to go there with, I guess just a tenancy document ?

Thanks in advance.

Thanks for the reply.

In court cases that I know of, here is how it works.
The Claimant (Landlord or LL) fills a form and sends it off to the court for determination, if the forms are filled correctly the courts will send the defendant (Tenant) a copy of the LL's claim. they have a specified amount of time to reply with thier own side of the story etc.

After a certain time, the Judge can either make a decision based on the facts and evidence, mainly in writing etc submitted by both sides, in some cases the T can ask for a hearing, then a date needs to be fixed etc.

In the case of the CMC, if i wanted to initiate a case, do I just go to their office to report a tenant or I fill a form etc, send it back to them and then they will ask for the other sides story as well, the going back and forth, is that done through email or how does it work ?

Do you know what the form looks like, if you have a copy that would be great.

Also as for decision making, is this done via what has been stated in the claim documents or both sides have to show face i am guessing in an informal setting. You are right, the one at Ibeju is the closest for the Lekki area.

Thanks in advance.

gabbytabby:
The decision is enforceable and for eviction if tenant does not go at appointed date a court bailiff eviction is processed. A lawyer of the ministry of justice is always present to clarify the point of law. This migth be the only person or there might be additional people usually for CMC with large client usage.

A tenant or a landlord can approach the CMC. They issue summons to the other party which the initiator serves on the other party or you pay transport and their staff will serve. The courts can also compulsorily refer cases to the CMC.

The initiator states their complaints and prayer(what they want out of the process) the other side is told to respond. To and froing goes on until an agreement is reached. The ministry of justice lawyers clarifies the point of law as necessary and documents the agreement


From the landlord side the main reasons for application is usually
1) None payment of rent and/or service charge
2) Tenant nuisance particularly intolerable nuisance.
3) Landlord need flat for personal use
4) Repairs need to be carried out
5) other tenancy contraventions or infractions

We have a general rent escalation timeline that we follow unless we have strong indication that tenant cannot pay then the goal is to minimise our loss.

A representative can do it. It could be a lawyer or an agent who is aware of the issues or briefed. One tenant was represented although still personally presemt. You definitely need to have copy of tenancy. You could also bring relevant correspondence.

I initially looked online for CMC close to the property. The one in ibeju(igando oloja) is the only one in the lekki/ajah/epe area.

@mavverick you go to CMC office they fill form and issue tenant summons on same day. They give the summons to you to serve and ask all to come at a later date.

The court case you refer to is it 9ja. If so any filing fee and how much.

Another thing do not invite or allow evicted tenants attend any subsequent meetings once eviction has been finalised.

They seek only mayhem and trouble so do not subject yourself or other tenants to the ramblings.

Good piece of Advice Madam.
Its just a case of learning and being armed just in case action is needed. The court case scenario I described is not for nija oo. Thats how it works in the UK, and it can all be done on a DIY basis, plenty of info online on how to fill the form (mistakes in the form or documentation means that the case is thrown out on a technicality), or of course you can hire a lawyer and that is often expensive.

gabbytabby:
Another thing do not invite or allow evicted tenants attend any subsequent meetings once eviction has been finalised.

They seek only mayhem and trouble so do not subject yourself or other tenants to the ramblings.

I thought so. Cos I am aware of the UK system. When I am a little less busy, i will visit 9ja magistrate court to find out how it is done.

mavverick:
Good piece of Advice Madam.
Its just a case of learning and being armed just in case action is needed. The court case scenario I described is not for nija oo. Thats how it works in the UK, and it can all be done on a DIY basis, plenty of info online on how to fill the form (mistakes in the form or documentation means that the case is thrown out on a technicality), or of course you can hire a lawyer and that is often expensive.

Good info folks....Nice 1.

gabbytabby:
Another thing do not invite or allow evicted tenants attend any subsequent meetings once eviction has been finalised.

They seek only mayhem and trouble so do not subject yourself or other tenants to the ramblings.

A couple of the landlords that I spoke to said meeting ke. They speak to tenants on individual basis or write generally or individually.

Has anyone gone through the court process and can enlighten us.

or

Any legal person who has done this in the last three years.

gabbytabby:
Has anyone gone through the court process and can enlighten us.

or

Any legal person who has done this in the last three years.

Up date Infromation about the court. It's called citizen mediation center. My wife did it two years ago, her brother filed the paper work. This was during Fashola, it's took about 6 months two weeks to conclude the case and kick the guy out. It very effective then, the court are all over local goverment headquarters. He filed at Ikotun in Alimosho. Hard to believe, I remember it's only cost N8000 to filed the paper including every other cost in total.

Can running a simple background check on future tenants work in Nigeria? Here is what I mean..

1. Getting 3 -5 references from them instead of just rushing to collect their first rent.

2. Request to speak with their 2 previous landlords and even neighbors.

3. Get info about their occupation and the addresses.
4. Atleast 5 family members should be contacted and can they vouch for them?
5. Make them provide a co-signer
6. Make them and their co-signer to sign some serious tenancy agreements (while recording and taking pictures)

6. make them read some out loud while all the meeting is been video recorded.

7. Do we have notary service in naija? If yes can one make them get their tenacy agreements notorized?

Am not saying all these will solve the LL and T issues but I want to believe some of these points should help prevent future issues.

Feel free to comment and air your suggestions too.

Unfortunately, I don't think the points you've listed are all practicable.
In time, the background check may become feasible, when the whole BVN and other things have been linked into one large database so credit checks can be run, but until then I think the only think one can still do is to stick with the practice of trying to find out what you can about potential tenants' ability to pay. Your points 2 to 7 are all onerous and will most likely drive away some, or create serious aggro for you in the future when they finally scale your hurdles.

olumide4christ:


Not always. Depends on your location which also a lot of times directly determines the level of your tenants. I don't think anybody living in the new building (3 No. 3-bedroom bungalows in a compound where the rent is N1.5 million per annum) opposite my house would indulge in such negative behaviour like Madam Gabbytabby spoke about above.

You'd be surprised at the stuff some apparently well-heeled people get up to in rented houses in upscale areas.

Someone has been busy reading my posts even from years past 12 likes from 1.45am to 7.20am

gabbytabby:
@lastpage it is a funny world in the letting world. Of recent a shop let came with an agency of 10k from me and the agent tried to collect 45k. At the point I got to know about the discrepancy tenant had already paid 30k and they were trying to get my agent to withold key until balance of 15k was paid.

I just called the tenant and gave vacant possession..

There was the managing agent that was collecting 5k application before showing flat such that void period was over extended..

I do try to get tenant to pay directly into my account but they collect from tenant and pay what they want to pay

They will even tell the tenant what lie to tell you about their livelihood and you are then stuck with rent continuity issues.

I do agree with lastpage that most are bad payers some even when they obviously have it.

if I am on ground I start with a rent and/or service charge default list which I paste in a conspicuous part of the premises. Failing that it's eviction notices after which its either mediation or the court. There is also the police route so far that was initiated by the tenant but it still got the desired effect of eviction.

I might personally get to test out both mediation and courts by self representation. It would be interesting to find out how the system works.

I am told that tenants do get involved in voodoo and black magic it's not my thing but if I get a sense that it might be at play all bets are off.

Tenant tell lies so as much as possible get evidence.

Keep a professional distance from tenants familiarity does breed contempt. Associate with other landlords in the area. There is a them and us mentality.

gabbytabby:
Someone has been busy reading my posts even from years past 12 likes from 1.45am to 7.20am

That someone is me!
They were really enlightening.

I was actually looking for a particular post in which you commented (info-gathering).....I saw it and then l got sucked-into reading all the posts on the thread and other refrenced threads.
BTW: i did not realise l gave likes.
its good to appreciate what is good.

Hope u are doing good, yourself?




Lastpage!

PS: that your tenant from hell, it wasn't funny at all. Complete with pinshures!

Tenancy matter for 9ja no be small matter. Another dey find my trouble for now. Worse than tenant from hell but I dey give am until October end before I unleash.

Even the lagos state govt refuse to build house for rent.

lastpage:


That someone is me!
They were really enlightening.

I was actually looking for a particular post in which you commented (info-gathering).....I saw it and then l got sucked-into reading all the posts on the thread and other refrenced threads.
BTW: i did not realise l gave likes.
its good to appreciate what is good.

Hope u are doing good, yourself?




Lastpage!

PS: that your tenant from hell, it wasn't funny at all. Complete with pinshures!

gabbytabby:
Tenancy matter for 9ja no be small matter. Another dey find my trouble for now. Worse than tenant from hell but I dey give am until October end before I unleash.

Even the lagos state govt refuse to build house for rent.

Did you say "worse"?

Landlords and Tenants have never been known to have a "deep friendship", no matte how nice the tenant is!
The relationship is not just built on that premise, especially in an environment where people can get away with impunity.

Though l have known you to be a very dogged and tenacious person but have you ever considered a "build & sell" model of investment?
It requires patience (may not sell immediately) but it has less hassles compared to this "Mama Landlady and Baba Landlord" wahala.

If the Govt, with all its paraphernalia of officialdom, is avoiding it....not to mention individuals, then it is worth avoiding.

Abeg, get more involved in choosing your tenants... those Agents just dump the dregs on you after collecting their fees.
As a matter of fact, do away with Agents and do your selection/interview yourself, it cant get worse than it is already.




Lastpage!

We dey consider several options including build to sell,treasury bills, avoiding the 9ja market entirely etc. The 9ja market is just too volatile at the present and the exchange difference with major currencies makes it not worthwhile for now. The government needs to give sweetner to attract investment.

I am definitely done building and renting in 9ja.

Deep friendship with a tenant is not on the cards oh. It is a strictly business relationship. Pay your rent and service charge and do not constitute a nuisance to others and we are good.

I cant blame my agent for this one cos against my better judgement I allowed myself to be arm twisted by a close neighbour. I don tell am make him no bring person to me again.

For this particular build treasury bills would have given a better return and no wahala. As my other build was in a relatively water logged area I needed to diversify my porfolio and manage the risk to my pension better. ROI was not the overriding consideration here.

lastpage:


Did you say "worse"?

Landlords and Tenants have never been known to have a "deep friendship", no matte how nice the tenant is!
The relationship is not just built on that premise, especially in an environment where people can get away with impunity.

Though l have known you to be a very dogged and tenacious person but have you ever considered a "build & sell" model of investment?
It requires patience (may not sell immediately) but it has less hassles compared to this "Mama Landlady and Baba Landlord" wahala.

If the Govt, with all its paraphernalia of officialdom, is avoiding it....not to mention individuals, then it is worth avoiding.

Abeg, get more involved in choosing your tenants... those Agents just dump the dregs on you after collecting their fees.
As a matter of fact, do away with Agents and do your selection/interview yourself, it cant get worse than it is already.




Lastpage!