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Stats: 2,035,171 members, 4,355,819 topics. Date: Monday, 16 July 2018 at 10:04 AM
|Analyticengine's Issues. by Image123(m): 2:11am On Jun 12, 2016|
Had to create a thread for your issues as most of what you expanded do not really relate to the other thread. If you have issues with the thread title, you may say.
You miss the point. i clearly stated here that no doctrine is a jamboree or unimportant. You said that it is a CORE christian concept. NO. Doctrines are not CORE in christianity. The core thing, the foundational, basic, inexcusable things in christianity are faith in Jesus and repentance. There is no other foundation. You can believe, understand and teach all the correct doctrines and go to hell. The main thing, required of every christian is first faith in Jesus/God and repentance. This what you find in the Bible, i answer to the Bible not to weblinks.
So those scientists that believed the earth was flat, were they right? Were they not disproved by Galileo? That's exactly what will happen the moment man sustains enough intelligence to unravel the mysteries behind what we call the spiritual realm
You missed the point yet again. That a doctrine/teaching is confused, or that a fact is confused/misunderstood does not mean that there is no truth or original. i helped you by giving you secular/physical examples. People's confusions and arguments about the shape of the earth do not make the planet earth a jamboree or invalidate the truth about the shape and size of the earth. People's confusions and arguments about Trinity and other doctrines does not make the true doctrine unreal.
All you are doing here is to force jive scriptures to suit what you believe. The same way I can prove that God is blind by saying; if God is love and love is blind, therefore God is blind. When given a result, series of explanations could be postulated to explain it. Apart form coming in the spirit and power of Elijah, all the other similarities that you claim exist between John and Elijah are boundless and unconfined and any prophet can fit into it especially Jeremiah, Isaiah and even Elisha. Nehemiah, Ezra the scribe etc. can even fit into it. The jews were known for always backsliding right from the time of Moses, to Joshua, to the Judges, up to the birth of Jesus and prophets were sent regularly to warn the people. In all sincerity, your usage of the Holy Spirit to interpret scripture is a nothing but a scheme to dodge discrepancie and turn the table around, telling people who don't agree with clear cut discrepancies that its because they've not got the Holy Spirit that's why they cannot understand. I am however glad that you admitted that John is not Elijah and that was all I was trying to point out.
You showed your naivety about Jesus not coming back as the same and that has been cleared, hopefully these others too will be cleared. We're making progress. i did not force the scriptures, i simply showed you scriptures you did not consider before. You took one verse and are trying to give it the meaning that you want. That is not how scriptures are studied, else you will eternally have tons of issues. If my Prof tells me how to use an equipment, i listen and make progress. Any good Bible scholar will tell you about reading and studying scriptures CUMULATIVELY. That is, taking into consideration all similar and related verses to get the best meanings. You took only Malachi 4v5 and missed the gist like those priests from Jerusalem. you should listen to the rest of the gist from Zechariah and Jesus. BTW, the Bible does not say that "love is blind"so i don't know the rubbish you are talking about. You asked "What similarity does John have with Elijah? Aside being a prophet, what other element can we find to be common between the duo? " i gave you the similarities, now you shift goal post to some other excuse.
Please state Bible passages where the mentioned similarities between John and Elijah are seen in Jeremiah, Isaiah and even Elisha, Nehemiah, Ezra? Thanks. To help you, here they are again.
(a). the same kind of 'eccentricity' and crudity. (b). they both turned the hearts of the people to God in a time of backsliding and national lukewarmness. (c). both hated for speaking the truth to the king. (d). Elijah was representative of all the prophets and John himself was the greatest prophet ever.
My usage or reference to the Holy Spirit is a fact written in scriptures, i did not drum it up. You need the Spirit of God.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
i never disagreed that John is not Elijah. Nobody did. Everyone, including Jesus knew and accepted taht Elijah is a different human being from John the baptist. Only the literally 'jew people' from Jerusalem thought John was Elijah. i'll say it again to gladden your soul again, JOHN IS NOT ELIJAH, he came in the Spirit and Power of Elijah, this is the teaching of scriptures, be a good student.
There you go. You never quoted matt 16:27. I was the one that deliberately edited your post by incorporating it in my reply, hoping you'll see my point clearly. It looked as though it was your original post. And because you were careless enough not to compare your original post with the one I mentioned you, you jumped into premature conclusion. It then served as a base point from which you shot your arrows of judgement about my personality. Now in your own judgement, who is the one with the mistake here? This is exactly how you perceive people based on what you sense and claim it is the Holy Spirit leading you. This is how you confidently jump into gullies with both feet only to meet disaster.
You missed the point yet again. Always try to clearly put your NOTE showing me that you have edited or truncated my post, thanks. My point was that i read the verse earlier. It is not new knowledge, or something shocking, or a discovery. You are not the first person i will read this question from or answer. This not even a matter of this year or decade, so it is a passage i am very familiar with the context. As you can see, i went ahead to quote other parts of the same chapter showing that i had read it earlier. Your including the verse27 in my post made me think i even quoted it. Because i recall reading it and even other similar passages which i quoted but you removed. i was certain that i quoted more than one verse, so your putting it easliy made me think that was already quoted by me. It takes nothing away from the fact that i stated, i had already read the passage in full. i mentioned that you you are making mistakes because of your omniscient/omnipotent talk. This was not to show you i am more clever or spiritual or omniwhatever than you. The point i tried to get across to you is that you are clearly capable of making mistakes, and you should not think you are not making some comprehension mistakes in your issues with christianity. This has nothing to do with being led by the Spirit, stop being jealous. i'll gladly jump into premature conclusions of me quoting scriptures a thousand times and again, that's a very good mistake to make.
This has been fixed. You now know who needs to be corrected. I make no claims of knowing everything about the bible, one thing I know for sure is that if there is a possibility that there is God, then he definitely does not meet the bible description.
This has been fixed. You now know who needs to be corrected. I make no claims of knowing everything about the bible. The atheists have defined God, God doesn't fit into their definitions,therefore God does not exist, gbamstamped.
Thanks for schooling me in english. You seem to pride yourself in explaining things that are weakly relevant. Obviously, if we are to take a holistic view of the prophetic revelation of rapture and the second coming of Jesus, we will network scriptures from genesis to revelations. But the subject at hand is pivoted on the link between verse 27 and verse 28 of Matt 16 and so these two verses are sufficient enough to make a holistic analysis of the subject at hand, that is the link between verse 27 and verse 28 and not necessarily the prophecy. According to these verses, the Son of man will come with his angels and some of the listeners will witness it. That is what is implied there.
You seem to be very courteous, i do not even recall or think that i schooled you in english. Is it a virtue you learnt as a christian? Hold on to it, it is nice. Now, PROPHECY is not irrelevant or weakly relevant. In fact, the scriptures are referred to as a Word of prophecy. So understanding it is important, you need the Spirit of God, and a truly holistic view to understanding it well. PROPHECY is not always in context, in fact it is rarely in context. Find time to meditate on the bolded until you understand it, i cannot help you without that.
But Jesus later explained what he meant by the yeast of the pharisees right? Jesus taught the crowd in parables but explained to his disciples in private. It is from the archives of these explanations that the bible was made. This means that what we have in the new testament is the gospel that has been churned for our assimilation except for most parts of the book of Revelations. This means that the contents of the new testament is largely unequivocal and straight forward. But according to you, areas that clearly don't match are to be understood under the lens of the Holy Spirit's guidance. I laugh.
Oops, you missed the point over and over again. The point here was obviously that Jesus was often misunderstood, even by His disciples. Spiritual things are not always in the realm of reasoning, i quoted a scripture to this earlier. Many times, it supersedes reasoning.
Mat 16:7 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have taken no bread.
Jesus said that His Words were/are Spirit and life and that the flesh does not profit in understanding Him. This applies to everyone, including disciples. Anyone telling you that only rapture or revelation is spiritual is only deceiving you. Maybe it is the devil, that is what he usually does, deceive.
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction.
You have said nothing. Please read matt 16:27-28 again and if you still think it refers to the transfiguration, then that's your problem. A friend of mine also postulated that it referred to stephen's encounter with Jesus when he was about to be stoned. I am sure if I meet another christian, he'll cook up his own customised explanation all in an effort to prove what he has chosen to believe. Seriously, If christianity gives you peace of mind and happiness, please continue being a christian and don't stop. Do what will make you happy and what works for you. I have no issue with what your believe. I only have issues with people enforcing things that cannot and has not been verified as true.
Some other popular explantion BTW is that it refers to the period of and after Pentecost. You directed the question to me, so i have given you the explanation and understanding i have of it. Peter, James and John saw the glorified Christ, how He is in His kingdom during the transfiguration. That was the purpose of the transfiguration in the first place. Peter and John later affectionately wrote about this experience in similar vein.
2Pe 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
2Pe 1:17 For he received from God the Father honor and glory, when there CAME such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
2Pe 1:18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Mar 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
The differing explanations and understandings have little or no consequence in the scheme of things. It is not what saves you or takes you to heaven or answers your prayer. It should not give anyone headache or cause anyone to backslide or have tons of issues. Of course i would continue to follow Jesus, were you hoping to make me an atheist before or what? i am satisfied with Jesus.
So my concern for creation is now humanist? I am sure on the flip side of this argument, you will gladly say we are created in God's image and as such have his mind. I laugh again.
Your concern has always been humanist, except you do not know what humanism is like i suspect. Here is the summary of your quote and that's what humanism is all about "What we call miracles are simply advanced science and one day it will be unravelled. //he now says it is God who gave him the job. Christians are truly gullible." i do not think i should be schooling you in your beliefs. We are created in the image of God but we do not all have His mind, unfortunately. Many have also distorted the image.
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Oga, show me where I defined faith ...not to even mention that faith should not include works. Where did I air my perspective on faith apart from saying people succeed even without having faith? Quote where I defined faith.
When you ask (7. If God wants us to live by faith, why did he give us brains to think and rationalise issues? ), you have defined faith to be without thought or rationality. Thinking is work if you do not know. When you imply that faith is needless when one works hard, you have defined faith. Your perspective clearly states that faith should not go with work or thinking, that once you have faith you do not need to think or work hard, and faith will/should do the magic.
i did not conclude that you never attended crusades, i said "IF you need more proof, seek more exposure." If you think there are no miracles or that folks are lying about testimonies, go to where such testimonies are usually shared, simple. Go ahead and carry out personal investigations and interviews, or bring along your own issues and challenges to verify.
You said that "Faith rarely works for things that we can visualise" and that "The only sign that believers love to display is speaking in tongues". So i simply suggested that you go to places where they usually do more than speak in tongues, places where they talk about things you can see, financial miracles, health miracles like visible lameness, blindness, paralysis, stroke, tuberculosis, shorter leg, barreness, vomitting of hair, animals etc. Go there and confirm how faith and prayers work. Now, you are claiming that you believe in miracles. That miracles happen. You and HardMirror are the only two atheists on NL that i have read believe in miracles. Only that you give excuse that there will soon be another explanation apart from God. Well, help us tell your other atheists like thehomer my friend, or Seun, or Pyrrho, or frank317, or cloudgoddess, or realmindz, or accidentgenius abi wetin be that name, or that Job parody guy that i can't place his godforsaken name again, or sonoflucifer(thais one go believe in miracles jare). Most of them claim that there is nothing like miracle but that it is all scam, help us tell them oh. BTW, i have never said that christians who signs do not follow are not true christians. Yet another one of your mistakes.
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