The Thread says "Devout Christian" and I hope you understand what it means.
I was hoping to go offline but I would like to open a discussion and I need answers from Devout Christians only biko.

I had a conversation with 5 Christians-- They all attend a bible believing church. It happened yesterday. We ended in a stalemate because both parties (They and I)were claiming to be right. The topic was on, "Should Christians say the truth at all times, and In every situation". I seem to be the black sheep among them that little doubt, One amongst them asked, "Bro! And you say you're a Christian?". Let me quickly narrate what occasioned the discussion.
A friend whose phone was stolen found out the Phone number, and occupation of some folks called by the Criminal with the help of the Internet. OK, So what do we do? Do we call this folks Saying, "Hey! Someone called you on 080XYZ and you have to divulge the details". No! that would be silly. It is reasonable to assume they(anyone the criminal calls)might be an accomplice in the crime. Do we call saying, "Hello, pls can I see you?". Of course, You only expect, " Who are you? and Why do you want to see me?". bear in mind that we've never met these folks before and the recovery mission was an urgent one. So I rang the first Number, since I knew her name and profession with the help of the Internet. I said, "Hello Jane, I really need to see you because I really want to buy your expensive wedding gown for my bride". Jane sells wedding gown. Jane was so eager to do business, she even schedule our meeting that very night. Can you imagine that! I had to postpone our plans for the morning. After dialing up, One who heard our conversation knowing I never really wanted to buy any wedding gown said, "I lied and would end up in Hell, if I don't repent". I disagreed vehemently. He keeps repeating, "WWJD--Would Jesus lie for any reason?". At that juncture, when I discovered we weren't heading anywhere, I had to ask, "So Are you saying Christians cannot work as CIA or our own EFCC or even as a Policeman?".We often hear Police officer say,"Hey! I saw you with that criminal" While investigating criminal Proceeding when in fact, they never saw any Criminal. These Professions often require Scientific method, contrapositive arguement and sometimes "Lies" to carry out or gather facts from criminals. He still insist a Christian should not lie for any reason.
Dear Christain Reader, If you agree with me that on these grounds Christians call tell "lie".Are you saying there are exceptions to the commandments of God?

OK let's leave the issue of profession. Let's talk about everyday life.

I posit this questions and when I heard his reply I had to stamp my feet. Here is the question. Suppose a nursing mother tells her infant son, "Ah!Ah! Don't go outside o! there are big big snakes outside" Just to scare the year old child from leaving. Will she be charged of this sin and shut out of heaven if perhaps she dies instantly. He was a bit sceptical but he quoted Rev 21: 8 "All liars" and he replied an emphatic Yes! He used this illustration. Say a man had a very white bedsheet and just a tiny fragment got stained by say, a palm oil. If he raises the bedsheet in broad daylight and asked, "What do you see? What would I say?" I said a spot. The conclusion necessarily follows since no unclean thing or "small sinners" shall enter the kingdom. so I put the scenario a bit differently perhaps he's yet to understand
I said," I hope you know I could lie while being silent and I can say the truth with a dishonest or selfish motive. Say I pretended to kick my foot on a stone in the presence of a two year old and pretended it hurts just to get the little child to catch some fun" .Isn't this a sin since all lies is based on deceit. He couldn't reply so He said since you're claiming truth is not absolute cos I always claimed all the actors weren't lying. The question he further asked, I would say is the "bone of contention".
Dear Christian reader I need your answer to this question
because it seems I'm inconsistent.
He asked, "Suppose some criminals were on rampage and you as a virgin Holy Spirit filled Christain Lady eavesdropped while one criminal whispered to his colleagues. "Guys if virgins de this room.We go rape them" and all laughed in amusement. Unfortunately, they came to your room pointed a rifle at the ladies of which you were among, asking "If you be virgin oya come dis place. If you no be virgin oya go right" As a Christian sister what would you do? I told him,"I would never say I was a Virgin". and he said, "Ah Spurgeon(that's what he calls me)You are not prepared to meet God o!" He further laid a trap by asking, "OK suppose you lived up north and Infact I did live up north and BH began killing Christians and I was asked, "Ki musulumi ne ko arne--Are you a christain or muslim?" I told him I would say, "I'm not just a Christian but a Christian who fears God" and at that He claims, I am inconsistent.I must admit I'm in a quagmire based on my previous stance.
People tell lies for a number of reasons but the root of all "lies" lies in Man's selfishness. I hope you believe people could also be telling the truth for selfish reasons too. Here is a man always quarrelling with a neighbor. One day, He witnessed the death of one killed by this neighbour but before he was interrogated by the police, He quickly quipped,"Officer, This man killed him. I was at the scene when it happened". It was the truth but it was a selfish. And I believe a selfish truth is no different from a lie


Infact I always ask him since he claims we should say the truth at all times.

Why Should I tell truth to One who hates truth, despises truth, hates religion, despise God. Why is he requiring truth of me? What does he really know about truth? Do we throw pearls to swine, Matt 7vs 6 or can someone interpret that to me based on this context. God never gave his commandment(the command to say the truth) as license for wicked men to pursue their interest in the way of unrighteousness or what do you think because Truth itself is not based on fact it is based on what God thinks or says of it. Adam did nothing wrong eating any fruit from the garden, It was only wrong because God Almighty forbade it.Yes Truth itself is not based on one abstract concept but what the Almighty has made it to be.

Pls this is not meant for argument sake.
We are to rightly divide the word of truth 2 Tim 2vs15.

lemme hear your opinion.







.

Op your topic said "devout christian" which by simple inference, I should be live you are devoted yourself".
What's devotion to a thing or somebody? Its putting the love,care and interest of such a thing or person first,in a way a non-devoted person wouldn't.
Now as a Christan,everything we are and believed is the word of God or scriptures,as contained in the bible.As a devoted Christian you claimed to be,you should have based your arguments on scriptures, but you were looking at it from "Professional angle, everyday experience angle etc". This is called rationalising the word of God,trying to use your intelligence to prove a point against the knowledge of the word.That's why you couldn't quote a single bible verse to support your claim that " we shouldn't speak the truth at all times.
Also you shouldn't have mentioned the name of the church those you argued with attend.
Now as a Christian should I speak the truth at all times,YES.But what if I fail to at any particular time? I should repent and not justify myself or try to rationalise.
Pls read Ps15:1-2,6, Rev21:27.
God bless you.

Who pronounces one devout?

Self?

Greatzeus:
Op your topic said "devout christian" which by simple inference, I should be live you are devoted yourself".
What's devotion to a thing or somebody? Its putting the love,care and interest of such a thing or person first,in a way a non-devoted person wouldn't.
Now as a Christan,everything we are and believed is the word of God or scriptures,as contained in the bible.As a devoted Christian you claimed to be,you should have based your arguments on scriptures, but you were looking at it from "Professional angle, everyday experience angle etc". This is called rationalising the word of God,trying to use your intelligence to prove a point against the knowledge of the word.That's why you couldn't quote a single bible verse to support your claim that " we shouldn't speak the truth at all times.
Also you shouldn't have mentioned the name of the church those you argued with attend.
Now as a Christian should I speak the truth at all times,YES.But what if I fail to at any particular time? I should repent and not justify myself or try to rationalise.
Pls read Ps15:1-2,6, Rev21:27.
God bless you.

Thanks for your input I'll delete the Church affiliation I mentioned earlier. Of course, We are not to rationalize Holy Writ and I never implied that either directly or Indirectly. But all I was saying is--Truth or lies is not based on FACT. What makes something right or wrong is not based on some form of moral compass invented by Man but rather God's attribute, his holiness and His mere good pleasure.

Why quote Ps 15 and Rev 21:27 here.I am by God"s grace a bible student and I never gave a clue that sinners will never perish or lying is acceptable?. All I have questioned thus far, is What your supposed "falsehood" or "lies" could mean.
Look at this scripture.

Ex 20:13
You shall not commit murder
Ex 22:2-3
"If a thief is caught in the act of breaking into a house and is struck and killed in the process, the person who killed the thief is not guilty of murder. But if it happens in daylight, the one who killed the thief is guilty of murder.



Is there a contradiction in God's law. One saying don't murder at all another saying murder is acceptable on certain occasion.
Here God's law forbids murder and yet God's(Not Man O!) approbation of one carried out is "Not guilty". Bros I understand indubitably the concept of "little sins" my friend Augustine even retracted ironies from his writing because it seems they had appearance of lieing but this really does not hold at all times.

Why should I tell a serial killer the truth? I love truth, I would die for the truth, But I would never tell a serial killer the truth for hundred worlds.Away with this killer he mustn"t know the truth.

Ok You're in a country like say. Saudi that forbids Christianity. One of those Saudi Jihadist who's suspicious that one Devote Christian who's your bosom friend is smuggling 1000 bibles and the Jihadist approaches you, points a rifle asking, "What is his name, home address and office address". WOULD YOU TELL HIM THE TRUTH ? I WOULDN'T FOR 1 TRILLION WORLDS.
In fact at that juncture, I would be what the world call a "PATHOLOGICAL LIAR".
let's ponder this for a seconds. The Laws of his Land is contrary to scripture, and God's purpose for his Creature remember Matt 28 :20 and yet this poor miserable creature wants to know the truth?Huh?

.

jnrbayano:
Who pronounces one devout?

Self?

There is nothing wrong calling a Christain a devout fellow or what exactly are you saying?

rev14vs11:

There is nothing wrong calling a Christain a devout fellow or what exactly are you saying?

Never said something is wrong with.

But something is wrong with it if one says to oneself, "I am devout".

Clear?

Greatzeus:

What's devotion to a thing or somebody? Its putting the love,care and interest of such a thing or person first,in a way a non-devoted person wouldn't.

This your statement really says it all.So many people think you have to step on death's threshold to prove your love to the Almighty but that's not necessarily true. You wouldn't believe, but it is way easier to die for Christ than live for Him. Just as it is easier to attend church service day after day and night after night than read 10 chapters of Holy writ a day.It's because of my ardent love for the almighty I would not tell the truth and not the other way round. I hope you understand now.

jnrbayano:


Never said something is wrong with.

But something is wrong with it if one says to oneself, "I am devout".

Clear?

Of Course, I Wasn't saying a Christain should go about claiming "I am devout" this verse says it all



2 Cor 10:18
When people commend themselves, it doesn't count for much. The important thing is for the Lord to commend them.
Holy Bible, New Living Translation

rev14vs11:

Of Course, I Wasn't saying a Christain should go about claiming "I am devout" this verse says it all



2 Cor 10:18
When people commend themselves, it doesn't count for much. The important thing is for the Lord to commend them.
Holy Bible, New Living Translation

Good.

Anybody who contributes to the Op has said, "I am devout Christian" according to the Op's first sentence.

No?

jnrbayano:


Good.

Anybody who contributes to the Op has said, "I am devout Christian" according to the Op's first sentence.

No?

You are yet to understand me. We are not to go about claiming to be saint but we know we are saints. If I ask, Are you a sinner? and you replied No. Doesn't it necessarily follow that you claim to be a saint. Since we both agree there are only two kinds of Human. And If I asked you are you a saint? You may never answer directly or in humility dismiss the question.
I only used the word "Devout"to streamline my answers to those working faithfully before God.

rev14vs11:

You are yet to understand me. We are not to go about claiming to be saint but we know we are saints. If I ask, Are you a sinner? and you replied No. Doesn't it necessarily follow that you claim to be a saint. Since we both agree there are only two kinds of Human. And If I asked you are you a saint? You may never answer directly or in humility dismiss the question.
I only used the word "Devout"to streamline my answers to those working faithfully before God.

Lemme pass.