Please, this is ANYBODY who wants to learn more about the gospel.

We are here to discuss whether we are still under the law or under grace, hence above the law.

Please, let's discuss.

OK so what's your position?

We are under grace

eph12:
OK so what's your position?

I go by relying TOTAL 100% grace and relying on 0% law.

Romans 11:6;"6 And if by grace, then is it NO MORE of works: otherwise GRACE IS NO MORE GRACE. But if it be of works, then IS IT NO MORE GRACE: otherwise work is no more work."

promise10:

I go by relying TOTAL 100% grace and relying on 0% law.

Romans 11:6;"6 And if by grace, then is it NO MORE of works: otherwise GRACE IS NO MORE GRACE. But if it be of works, then IS IT NO MORE GRACE: otherwise work is no more work."

Works same as law?

What exactly are you driving at? What do you exactly mean by relying on GRACE and not LAW?

eph12:

Works same as law?

What exactly are you driving at? What do you exactly mean by relying on GRACE and not LAW?

It is IMPOSSIBLE to separate works from law. IMPOSSIBLE. If there is, hope you can put it up. When I say works, I mean works of the law of righteousness.

When we talk about good work, we talk about it as one. Which is not what I mean by works.

Through the scriptures I view good works in 2 ways.

1. Works of the law of righteousness

2. Works of faith.

I view the first work as a good work that is being done with the MOTIVE of having a right standing with God. Which is false, as it doesn't give right standing before God.

Titus 3:5-7;"5 NOT BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW OF RIGHTEOUSNESS which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us(at the cross) ABUNDANTLY through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 That being justified by HIS GRACE(not our works of righteousness), we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life."

But, I view the second work, as a good work that is done by the PERSUASION, LOVE and the CONVICTION of HAVING ALREADY STOOD RIGHT UNCONDITIONALLY by the faith of christ before God. Here, the person is not doing it to EARN right standing before God. Rather, he is doing it BECAUSE he has ALREADY received the FREE GIFT(salvation) by GRACE. He is doing it because he is ALREADY standing right before God, without interfering with his goodness.

1thessalonians 1:3:" Remembering without ceasing YOUR WORK OF FAITH, and LABOUR OF LOVE, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;"

So, though we christians should do good works, but through the scripture we can see that we are not encouraged to have works of righteousness which doesn't give us right standing before God, rather we were encouraged to have GOOD WORKS OF FAITH.


What's your take on it?

eph12:

Works same as law?

What exactly are you driving at? What do you exactly mean by relying on GRACE and not LAW?

What I mean by grace of God is Jesus and his finished work.

Simply put, the grace of God is Jesus PERSONIFIED and the finished work PROVEN.

John 1:14:"14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of GRACE and TRUTH"

Everything about Jesus is GRACE.

I know most people say that grace is an empowerment for right living, and they even go further a times to say that for example, grace for good health is different from grace for exam success. Which I have never seen in my bible, unless you can show me any, if you believe such.

Now, the grace of God is not an empowerment for this and that rather the grace of God is Jesus and his finished work which PRODUCES empowerment for one thing or the other in one's life. When the bible says that we are justified by grace, I don't think that it is saying that it empowers us to live 100% perfectly as God before we can be justified, which is still pointing to works of righteousness.

Rather I believe it is saying that we are justified by what Jesus did on our behalf at the cross, thus; the finished work. We are justified because our whole sins were inputted, judged, convicted and condemned on christ. And by this, our sins are no more inputted on us.

Don't you view it as a crime of double jeopardy for God to input, judge, convict and condemn us for the sins he inputted, judged, convicted and condemned on christ ON OUR BEHALF?

promise10:


What I mean by grace of God is Jesus and his finished work.

Simply put, the grace of God is Jesus PERSONIFIED and the finished work PROVEN.

John 1:14:"14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of GRACE and TRUTH"

Everything about Jesus is GRACE.

I know most people say that grace is an empowerment for right living, and they even go further a times to say that for example, grace for good health is different from grace for exam success. Which I have never seen in my bible, unless you can show me any, if you believe such.

Now, the grace of God is not an empowerment for this and that rather the grace of God is Jesus and his finished work which PRODUCES empowerment for one thing or the other in one's life. When the bible says that we are justified by grace, I don't think that it is saying that it empowers us to live 100% perfectly as God before we can be justified, which is still pointing to works of righteousness.

Rather I believe it is saying that we are justified by what Jesus did on our behalf at the cross, thus; the finished work. We are justified because our whole sins were inputted, judged, convicted and condemned on christ. And by this, our sins are no more inputted on us.

Don't you view it as a crime of double jeopardy for God to input, judge, convict and condemn us for the sins he inputted, judged, convicted and condemned on christ ON OUR BEHALF?

What do you say about Rom 6:1? Are we to abide in sin that grace may abound?
What about Rom 6:23?
If I get you correctly you don't believe our works has any part whatsoever to play in saving Christians and that it's only through faith. Well I don't see how you can claim to have faith and you will not act it.

eph12:

What do you say about Rom 6:1? Are we to abide in sin that grace may abound?
What about Rom 6:23?
If I get you correctly you don't believe our works has any part whatsoever to play in saving Christians and that it's only through faith. Well I don't see how you can claim to have faith and you will not act it.

EXACTLY!

Good works does not save, or keep one saved, but the FAITH one has in the punishment of sin that Jesus took at the cross ON HIS OWN BEHALF. That's the saving faith.

The bible tells us that we are being KEPT by the FAITH we have IN THE SAVING FINISHED WORK OF CHRIST that was done ON OUR BEHALF. And at the same time we are being saved by that faith alone..

Eph 2:8-9:"8 For by grace are ye saved THROUGH FAITH(alone); and that NOT OF YOURSELVES: IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD.
9 NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast."

1peter 1:4-5;4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 WHO ARE KEPT BY THE POWER OF GOF THROUGH FAITH(alone) unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

promise10:

EXACTLY!

Good works does not save, or keep one saved, but the FAITH one has in the punishment of sin that Jesus took at the cross ON HIS OWN BEHALF. That's the saving faith.

The bible tells us that we are being KEPT by the FAITH we have IN THE SAVING FINISHED WORK OF CHRIST that was done ON OUR BEHALF. And at the same time we are being saved by that faith alone..

Eph 2:8-9:"8 For by grace are ye saved THROUGH FAITH(alone); and that NOT OF YOURSELVES: IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD.
9 NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast."

1peter 1:4-5;4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 WHO ARE KEPT BY THE POWER OF GOF THROUGH FAITH(alone) unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

You keep on saying alone. I wish I know what you're really driving at. I was waiting for you to quote the verse that says faith without works is dead.
By the way you saying as long as I have faith and faith alone it's OK I fornicate, steal, and do all sorts of?

We are under grace if we know how to make use of the divine forces around us but under the Law if you are just an ordinary individuals.