Salamu Alaikum,

This days I fine it very disheartening how a lot of mosque don't do any congregational dua after salat.

While growing up duas are done together and as children that was how we learned how to make duas after prayers and I wonder how our children will have a practical knowledge of what to do and say after salat with the present practice of no congregessional dua, further some ulama have said that when duas are made together Allah may accept it because of a particular person that was part of it expecially when children who are considered sinless in Islam are also part of the dua.

This days especially here in the north most mosque that are ahlul sunna will not do any dua even in trying times like now the excuse given is it was never done by the prophet.

My question is what is wrong in doing something seemingly good even if not done by the prophet, moreover there are a lot of things done today that the prophet has not done, things like using, microphone, carpet, ac, fan etc

NB this thread is for our education please no insults.

Salam, No one has still responded on this thread it is for our Deen and knowledge let's contribute to learn more

It is Sign of the time. We have some people now claiming to know SUNNAH in this Last Age and they think those men of old were silly. You raised good point. How do we children back then know the dua if not THE GATHERINGS/ASSEMBLIES OF DHIKR?

You can see bcus of abandoning this practices is the reason we now have thugs everywhere. They have no knowledge of the deen but they scream "Qur'an and SUNNAH" everywhere. There are documented evidences of group dhikr. As you rightly said, even if prophet did not do it, it is common sense for us to do it. I learned many stuff and chapters of Quran through group dua.

They now claiming it is bid'a to gather and make du'a. This is fabrication. It is not just in the North or Nigeria. This is the way it is in the Western world too except few. Once Imam says "salaam alaikum". They all stand up and leave. They dont even make private dhikr either. This is fading the ESSENCE of islam. Bro, knowledge is going away. I am not surprised at all. Read this thread when you get the chance and follow if you want.

https://www.nairaland.com/3301071/muhammad-alee-jabata-not-among#48710714

They now campaigning against group du'a, group dhikr etc. How would children learn if not by that?. Group dhikr is SUNNAH. Those who condemn it are Alhu Bid'a pretending to be people of SUNNAH. What they dont understand is, it is not befitting for the prophet(SAW) to do what we would do. They trying to compare themselves with the prophet. I thank God you spotted this madness. Because people dont do dhikr anymore, they have lots of time doing nothing. So shaytan took over. If they see any mosque doing group dhikr now, they tag it "alhu bid'a" (people of innovation)

They have tagged EVERYTHING bid'a (innovation) to discourage Muslims from practicing Islam. These people condemning everything are protestant. They are "protestant Islam"

Empiree:
It is Sign of the time. We have some people now claiming to know SUNNAH in this Last Age and they think those men of old were silly. You raised good point. How do we children back then know the dua if not THE GATHERINGS/ASSEMBLIES OF DHIKR?

You can see bcus of abandoning this practices is the reason we now have thugs everywhere. They have no knowledge of the deen but they scream "Qur'an and SUNNAH" everywhere. There are documented evidences of group dhikr. As you rightly said, even if prophet did not do it, it is common sense for us to do it. I learned many stuff and chapters of Quran through group dua.

They now claiming it is bid'a to gather and make du'a. This is fabrication. It is not just in the North or Nigeria. This is the way it is in the Western world too except few. Once Imam says "salaam alaikum". They all stand up and leave. They dont even make private dhikr either. This is fading the ESSENCE of islam. Bro, knowledge is going away. I am not surprised at all. Read this thread when you get the chance and follow if you want.

https://www.nairaland.com/3301071/muhammad-alee-jabata-not-among#48710714

They now campaigning against group du'a, group dhikr etc. How would children learn if not by that?. Group dhikr is SUNNAH. Those who condemn it are Alhu Bid'a pretending to be people of SUNNAH. What they dont understand is it is not befitting for the prophet(SAW) to do what we would do. They trying to compare themselves with the prophet. I thank God you spotted this madness. Because people dont do dhikr anymore, they have lots of time doing nothing. So shaytan took over. If they see any mosque doing group dhikr now, they tag it "alhu bid'a" (people of innovation)

Jazakallah hairan, personally I learned the ayatul khursi as a child because it was recited after every prayer, not in a school so I wonder how my child will learn it or even know that it should be recited after prayers.

Empiree:
They have tagged EVERYTHING bid'a (innovation) to discourage Muslims from practicing Islam. These people condemning everything are protestant. They are "protestant Islam"

I once met an elderly man in Maiduguri he said the moment they asked us to stop dua in congression calamity befell our state, he said just imagine this Boko Haram menace, he said is it not insane for a group of people under the threat of Boko Haram will pray together and everyone will just dust his clothe and leave without any group prayer for Allah to bring succor to us. He said those who are telling us not to duas are not but playing to the dictates of the yahud

HAH:


I once met an elderly man in Maiduguri he said the moment they asked us to stop dua in congression calamity befell our state, he said just imagine this Boko Haram menace, he said is it not insane for a group of people under the threat of Boko Haram will pray together and everyone will just dust his clothe and leave without any group prayer for Allah to bring succor to us. He said those who are telling us not to duas are not but playing to the dictates of the yahud

SubhannaAllah. Exactly!

A proverb says "An idle hand is devil workshop" That's what is going on

HAH:


Jazakallah hairan, personally I learned the ayatul khursi as a child because it was recited after every prayer, not in a school so I wonder how my child will learn it or even know that it should be recited after prayers.

Yea, it is very scary now with the way they telling people not to do this or that. People need to return to Allah's path. These modern Muslims are only reading texts. They only believe in what they see.

Alhamdulilah, we still have some masajid practicing Islam the old way. The way our fathers and mothers would come to the masjid at least 30mins before fajr commenced and sat down to make dhikr.

A lot have changed now man.

HAH:
Salamu Alaikum,

This days I fine it very disheartening how a lot of mosque don't do any congregational dua after salat.

While growing up duas are done together and as children that was how we learned how to make duas after prayers and I wonder how our children will have a practical knowledge of what to do and say after salat with the present practice of no congregessional dua, further some ulama have said that when duas are made together Allah may accept it because of a particular person that was part of it expecially when children who are considered sinless in Islam are also part of the dua.

This days especially here in the north most mosque that are ahlul sunna will not do any dua even in trying times like now the excuse given is it was never done by the prophet.

My question is what is wrong in doing something seemingly good even if not done by the prophet, moreover there are a lot of things done today that the prophet has not done, things like using, microphone, carpet, ac, fan etc

NB this thread is for our education please no insults.

if you mean in group, saying dhikr in one voice and in unison, then this is bid'ah, but if you mean the normal dhikr where Miuhammad(pbuh) asked us to do istighfar 3x, Allaahuma anta salaam wa minka salaam tabarakta ya dhal jalaal wal ikram and so on, note that this is not done in one voice and in unison, rather individually, you are also permitted to do it loudly, as we see in this hadeeth;

Ibn 'Abbas told me, "In the lifetime of the Prophet it was the custom to celebrate Allah's praises aloud after the compulsory congregational prayers." Ibn 'Abbas further said, "When I heard the Dhikr, I would learn that the compulsory congregational prayer had ended." [Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 12, Number 802]

here is an explanation on this hadeeth by shaykh ibn huthaymeen and shaykh ibn baz may Allaah have mercy on both of them,

shaykh ibn uthaymeen said:

[b]The Sunnah is to say it aloud, as the Prophet (salallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) used to say it aloud. Ibn 'Abbas (radiallaahu 'anhumma) said: They used to raise their voices when making dhikr after finishing the prayer in the time of the Prophet (salallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam).

And if all of the people raise their voices, they will not disturb each other. But they will disturb each other if some of them say it aloud and others say it quietly. There is no doubt that it will disturb the one who says it quietly, but if he were to raise his voice like them, there would be no disturbance. As for those who are making up what they missed, they have brought it upon themselves; if they had wished, they could have come early and it would not have disturbed them.

And as I said, if all of the voices were mixed together, there would be no disturbance, even for those who are making up their prayers, just as you see now on Fridays; the people all recite the Noble Qur`an and they raise their voices but, in spite of this, the worshipper comes and prays and he does not experience any disturbance.[/b]

shaykh ibn baz also said;

[b]It has been authentically reported in the Sahihain (Two Sahihs) on the authority of Ibn 'Abbaas (radiallaahu 'anhumma) that in the time of the Messenger of Allaah (salallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam), it was the practice to raise the voice when making dhikr after the obligatory prayers; he said: I used to know if they had finished (praying) when I heard it.

This authentic hadith and others which carry the same meaning, such as the Hadith of Ibn az-Zubair, Al-Mughirah bin Shu'bah and others all prove the lawfulness of raising the voice when making dhikr after the people have finished the obligatory prayers, so that the people at the door of the mosque or those near to it will know that the prayer is over.

But whoever finds people praying what they have missed of the obligatory prayer near to him, it is better for him to lower his voice a little so that he does not disturb them, according to other evidences. And in raising the voice when making dhikr after the obligatory prayers, there are many benefits, including demonstrating the [saying] of Allaah's praises for the blessing He has conferred on them through their performance of this great obligatory prayer, and it teaches the ignorant and reminds those who forget; and if it were not for this, the Sunnah would remain unknown to many people. And Allaah is the Granter of success.[/b]

WAllaahu 'Alam

lexiconkabir:


if you mean in group, saying dhikr in one voice and in unison, then this is bid'ah, but if you mean the normal dhikr where Miuhammad(pbuh) asked us to do istighfar 3x, Allaahuma anta salaam wa minka salaam tabarakta ya dhal jalaal wal ikram and so on, note that this is not done in one voice and in unison, rather individually, you are also permitted to do it loudly, as we see in this hadeeth;

Ibn 'Abbas told me, "In the lifetime of the Prophet it was the custom to celebrate Allah's praises aloud after the compulsory congregational prayers." Ibn 'Abbas further said, "When I heard the Dhikr, I would learn that the compulsory congregational prayer had ended." [Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 12, Number 802]

here is an explanation on this hadeeth by shaykh ibn huthaymeen and shaykh ibn baz may Allaah have mercy on both of them,

shaykh ibn uthaymeen said:

[b]The Sunnah is to say it aloud, as the Prophet (salallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) used to say it aloud. Ibn 'Abbas (radiallaahu 'anhumma) said: They used to raise their voices when making dhikr after finishing the prayer in the time of the Prophet (salallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam).

And if all of the people raise their voices, they will not disturb each other. But they will disturb each other if some of them say it aloud and others say it quietly. There is no doubt that it will disturb the one who says it quietly, but if he were to raise his voice like them, there would be no disturbance. As for those who are making up what they missed, they have brought it upon themselves; if they had wished, they could have come early and it would not have disturbed them.

And as I said, if all of the voices were mixed together, there would be no disturbance, even for those who are making up their prayers, just as you see now on Fridays; the people all recite the Noble Qur`an and they raise their voices but, in spite of this, the worshipper comes and prays and he does not experience any disturbance.[/b]

shaykh ibn baz also said;

[b]It has been authentically reported in the Sahihain (Two Sahihs) on the authority of Ibn 'Abbaas (radiallaahu 'anhumma) that in the time of the Messenger of Allaah (salallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam), it was the practice to raise the voice when making dhikr after the obligatory prayers; he said: I used to know if they had finished (praying) when I heard it.

This authentic hadith and others which carry the same meaning, such as the Hadith of Ibn az-Zubair, Al-Mughirah bin Shu'bah and others all prove the lawfulness of raising the voice when making dhikr after the people have finished the obligatory prayers, so that the people at the door of the mosque or those near to it will know that the prayer is over.

But whoever finds people praying what they have missed of the obligatory prayer near to him, it is better for him to lower his voice a little so that he does not disturb them, according to other evidences. And in raising the voice when making dhikr after the obligatory prayers, there are many benefits, including demonstrating the [saying] of Allaah's praises for the blessing He has conferred on them through their performance of this great obligatory prayer, and it teaches the ignorant and reminds those who forget; and if it were not for this, the Sunnah would remain unknown to many people. And Allaah is the Granter of success.[/b]

WAllaahu 'Alam

Jazakallah hairan but my brother what is your person opinion on congregational dua, is it good or bad, what I mean is making dua together after salat for either his mercies or for some worldly gain?

HAH:


Jazakallah hairan but my brother what is your person opinion on congregational dua, is it good or bad, what I mean is making dua together after salat for either his mercies or for some worldly gain?

Wa antum fa jazakaallaah khaira, you see the underlined? Its wrong, it should be, "what is the correct ruling for Congregational du'a"

Well as for the answer, here is a detailed fatwa https://islamqa.info/en/93757

lexiconkabir:


Wa antum fa jazakaallaah khaira, you see the underlined? Its wrong, it should be, "what is the correct ruling for Congregational du'a"

Well as for the answer, here is a detailed fatwa https://islamqa.info/en/93757

Thank you very much my brother but please what is your take on this

http://www.tafseer-raheemi.com/congregational-dua-after-salaah-bidah/


Question
Is congregational dua after salaah or whenever bida’h?

Answer
Congregational Dua after salah is not bida’h. Bida’h means to innovate in the aspects of the sharee’ah and to add that which has no basis in Islam. The majority of the scholars say that congregational dua after salah was not the practice of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam. Let us discuss why this practice is so prevalent in our societies today and why it is emphasised so much by our Ulama and our elders of today.

Firstly, we need to understand one concept of congregational dua, and that is, that if one has the firm belief that this specific type of practice is in any way sunnat, wajib, or fardh, and if one makes an objection if it is not carried out after every salah, or, he deplores those who do not take part in this practice, is totally bida’h and sinful. The highest category which we can give this practice may be mustahab.

The following discussion can be found in full detail in fath-ul-bari, the commentary on Sahih al-Bukhari, from pages 150-153 volume 12 (cairo print) under the baab,  بَاب الدُّعَاءِ بَعْدَ الصَّلَاةِ (page 397 of the Indian print).

1 – The first proof of evidence of the Hanafi School of fiqh comes from the qur’an, surah qaaf (26th para, page 721), where Almighty Allah says, “وَمِنَ اللَّيْلِ فَسَبِّحْهُ وَأَدْبَارَ السُّجُودِ”. Some of the commentators of the Qur’an, on the commentary of this ayat, have said that this ayat is referring to congregational dua after salah.

2 – Secondly, Imam Abu Daud and Imam Nasai have narrated from Hazrat Mua’z Ibn Jabal radhiyallahu anhu that the Holy Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam said to him,

يَا مُعَاذ إِنِّي واللہ لَأُحِبّك ، فَلَا تَدَع دُبُر كُلّ صَلَاة أَنْ تَقُول : اللَّهُمَّ أَعِنِّي عَلَى ذِكْرك وَشُكْرك وَحُسْن عِبَادَتك
Imam Ibn Hibaan and Imam Hakim have classified this hadith as authentic.

3 – Imam Tirmizi has narrated from Hazrat Abu Umamah radhiyallahu anhu that  the Holy Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam was asked,

أَيّ الدُّعَاء أَسْمَع ؟ قَالَ : جَوْف اللَّيْل الْأَخِير وَدُبُر الصَّلَوَات الْمَكْتُوبَات قِيلَ يَا رَسُول اللہ
4 – Imam Hakim, Imam Nasai, Imam Tirmizi and Imam Ahmad have said that the following hadith is authentic, narrated from Hazrat Abu Bakarah,

حَدِيث أَبِي بَكْرَة فِي قَوْل ” اللَّهُمَّ إِنِّي أَعُوذ بِك مِنْ الْكُفْر وَالْفَقْر وَعَذَاب الْقَبْر ، كَانَ النَّبِيّ صَلَّى اللہ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ يَدْعُو بِهِنَّ دُبُر كُلّ صَلَاة ” أَخْرَجَهُ أَحْمَد وَالتِّرْمِذِيّ وَالنَّسَائِيُّ وَصَحَّحَهُ الْحَاكِم ۔
There are many more proofs from the ahadith, which prove that dua after salah is a practice of the Holy Prophet (May peace and blessings be upon him) himself, but I have omitted them to prevent prolonging the answer.

Hazrat Shaikh Yunus Sahib (of India, Saharanpoor, and the great Khalifah of the late Hazrat Shaikh Zakariya rahmatullahi alaiyah), has said that the majority of the evidence points towards the dua after salah.

Note:

Regarding congregational dua after salah, one needs to and must understand that the majority of the people are immersed and are busy in their work and everyday life. They hardly find time to perform their obligatory prayers let alone find time to practice upon the mustahabaat such as dua. We see daily that many of the musallees get up straightaway after fardh salah and leave the masjid. One of the reasons that so much emphasis is given to this practise is that the general public offer inadequate excuses of “not having the time” to do things, and, among them, is dua.  Therefore, in reality, this is the one chance where everybody has the opportunity to turn to his lord in supplication and to repent five times daily.

The reason dua is carried out as a congregation is to help each other give strength, due to the weakness of our Imaan and the lack of sincerity and contemplation that we have, to the duas that are made. Through congregational dua, it is hoped inshaAllah that our duas will be accepted in the court of Allah. In this way even if there is only one beloved servant of Allah who is pious and sincere in his dua then Allah’s rahmat will decend upon all who are present, and, if he accepts this persons dua then Allah is not a miser as to accept a single persons dua from an entire congregation and reject the rest!!

Student of Darul Ifta. Checked and approved by Shaykh Abdur Raheem Sahib.

lexiconkabir:


Wa antum fa jazakaallaah khaira, you see the underlined? Its wrong, it should be, "what is the correct ruling for Congregational du'a"

Well as for the answer, here is a detailed fatwa https://islamqa.info/en/93757

Jazakumullaahu khayran Kabir, I wanted to say the same thing u underlined, no personal opinion here. I think with the way deviations are springing up, we shud ourselves seek beneficial knowledge...it is getting worse, we don't know who's is good and bad!!

Question is, according to distributions of gathering of dhikr or dua in the hadith quoted above, do people even do that these days?. Far as i am concern, i dont see any mosques do that either save few. Once Imam finishes salat, everybody stands up and leave. When Imam is making dua, all we hear is commotion i:e worshippers struggling to put on their shoes and we can barely hear imam voice.

So it is not even a matter of bid'a now. it is now a matter of do people really sit down and make congregational dua/dhikr mentioned in the ahadith?. A whole lots of masajid dont.

Op, HAH, do me a favor, try to read the hadith the way you understand it with commentary by the shuyuk. Then, try to make people practice it and let's hear what they say. Will be here in sha Allah for feedback. I can guarantee you the same pple who claim to follow sunnah will call it bid'a. Dont even show them the hadith before you embark on this experiment. Do it for a month.

It's not wrong but You should start doing it. There's a mosque in my home so most times my dad or myself will always recite dua. People in the mosque cultivated the habit to always make the congregational dua in our absence or when we are late for prayers. I think if you start you'll make an impact.

^

You see the hadith he quoted up there about Ibn Mos'ud [Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 12, Number 802], it doesn't take rocket science to figure out it is "group dhikr" when you go practical. It is easy to read texts and condemn what you want to condemn. But if you go practical, it is clear.

Congregational

Group

Assembly

Gathering


....are all the same meaning. Let's apply the hadith practically. Forget about "he said, she said" for a moment.


Say for instance, lexicon is Imam and the rest of us are behind him. He finishes salat by saying Salam alaikum waramotullah.

Then, everyone of us starts reciting loud dhikr lailaha ila Allah. Theoretically, we are reciting it individually but in practical sense, it's already unison.

Let's analyse what i just said so we know it is already group dhikr. First, with lexicon as imam and we behind him, we already formed a group of assembly.

Second, we all doing dhikr (individually) as intended

Third, it is technically unison.

So "group dhikr" is already formed. There is no way bunch of muslims reciting dhikr individually and loud and saying the same thing without making it unison or almost. This is how Gathering of dhikr is borne. There is nothing "bid'atic" about it. But if you stick to texts, you will always easily find what is bid'a.

Just try to implement the hadith. You will get my point. That's all

^^ if you do bid'ah you will be held responsible, if you shelter people that brought it, you will be CURSED BY ALLAAH, i didnt say that the prophet did, note that. I have given my message that Congregational dhikr is bid'ah, and Congregational du'a can be bid'ah or can be permissible it depends on the situation which has been explained in details on that link that i provided, doing dhikr loudly individually without saying it from the beginning to the ending in one voice is allowed, do analysis from now till tomorrow, it changes nothing......do you even know who an extremist is according to sharee'ah? When the prophet will do the stoning in hajj he would pick very tiny stones to do the stoning, then later on some people went to do the same stoning but they used big stones, now to them big stones will do a great job better than small stones, which makes sense right? But guess what the prophet said when this got to him, he said "Ruined are the extremists" now what did prophet called extremism? Doing what he did not do in things of worship even if the intention is good, ibaadah is tawqeefi(i.e limited to what is mentioned in the Quran and Sunnah or it is impermissible to worship Allaah except when ordered in a specific way to do so).

Allaah must'aan.

RABIUSHILE04:


Jazakumullaahu khayran Kabir, I wanted to say the same thing u underlined, no personal opinion here. I think with the way deviations are springing up, we shud ourselves seek beneficial knowledge...it is getting worse, we don't know who's is good and bad!!

Na'am beneficial knowledge is essential in other to save oneself from innovators, but people are not willing to study, thats the main problem.

lexiconkabir:


Na'am beneficial knowledge is essential in other to save oneself from innovators, but people are not willing to study, thats the main problem.

The problem is not the problem, it is the attitude towards the problem that is the problem. Someone who wants the best in this life and the akhirah will strive to know more, that is a wise person, even if it is little. There are some things we just can't always leave for the scholars, eg mistakes in sallaah...u sha can't com and ask scholar during ur prayer weda to make sujud ziyaadah(addition), an Naqs(omission) and as skakk((state of doubts). A wise person will strive to learn, no matter how little bro, and allaah knows best.

[size=15pt]Gathering Of Dhikr And Knowledge Are Both Valid And Sunnatic[/size]

Knowledge Is Too Much Today But There Is No Wisdom. It Is Because Every Has Knowledge Today Is The Reason We Will All Find Evidence For Whatever We Want To Get What We Want. Not Once Did Prophet (salla Allahu Alaiy Wasalam) Frown Upon GROUP DHIKR. And Of Course, Gathering Of Knowledge Is Highly Sunnatic. But To Say Groups or Gatherings or Assemblies or Congregation Of Dhikr Is Bid'a, That In Itself Is Bid'a For Rejecting The Sunnah. Many Of The Tafsir Held In Nigerian, In Ramadhan or Not, Sufis or Not Are Actually That of Knowledge with Some Brief Dhikr. Both Valid



The Excellence of Gathering in which Allah is Remembered


Imam Al-Nawawi’s Riyad-us-Saliheen in Chapter 247 of his book "The Excellence of Gathering in which Allah is Remembered" writes:



Allah, the Exalted, says:

“And keep yourself (O Muhammad (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam)) patiently with those who call on their Rubb (i.e., your companions who remember their Rubb with glorification, praising in prayers, and other righteous deeds) morning and afternoon, seeking His Face; and let not your eyes overlook them.” (18:28)



1447. Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said, “Allah, the Exalted, has teams of angels who go about on the roads seeking those who remember Allah. When they find some people remembering Allah they call to one another and say, `Come to what you are looking for;’ and they surround them with their wings till the space between them and the lowest sky is fully covered. Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, asks them (although He is best informed about every thing): `What are my slave saying?’ They say: `They are glorifying Your Tasbih, Tahmid, Takbir, Tamjid, (i.e., they were declaring Your Perfectness, praising, remembering the Greatness and Majesty of Allah).’ He asks: `Have they seen Me?’ They reply, `No, indeed, they have not seen You.’ He asks: `How would they act if they were to see Me?’ Thereupon they reply: `If they were to see You, they would engage more earnestly in worshipping and glorifying You and would extol You more.’ He would say: `What do they beg of Me?’ They say, `They beg You for Your Jannah.’ Allah says, `Have they seen My Jannah?’ They say, `No, our Rubb.’ He says: `How would they act if they were to see My Jannah?’ They reply, `Were they to see it, they would more intensely eager for it.’ They (the angels) say, `They seek Your Protection.’ He asks, `Against what do they seek My Protection?’ They (the angels) say, `Our Rubb, from the fire of Hell.’ (He, the Rubb) says, `Have they seen the fire of Hell?’ They say, `No. By Your Honour, they have not seen it.’ He says: `How would they act if they were to see My Fire?’ They say: `If they were to see it, they would more earnest in being away from it and fearing it. They beg of Your forgiveness.’ He says: `I call you to witness that I hereby grant pardon to them and confer upon them what they ask for; and grant them protection against what they seek protection from.’ One of the angels says: `Our Rubb, there is amongst them such and such slave who does not belong to the assembly of those who are participating in Your remembrance. He passed by them and sat down with them.’ He says: `I also grant him pardon because they are the people by virtue of whom their associates will not be unfortunate‘.” [Al-Bukhari and Muslim].


In the above hadith is the mentions of dhikr(remembrance of Allah). It does not mention knowledge or that the Malaikat roaming seeking for people of knowledge. It says "people of dhikr". I read article yesterday trying to twist the context but Alhamdulilah, the author agrees it gathering of dhikr but he somehow twist that if the gathering or group of dhikr is not beneficial for knowledge, then, it is irrelevant. Obviously, that is his opinion.

Our daily salat are technically gathering of dhikr. But isn't knowledge gain therein?. Yes, of course. 99% muslims learned how to pray through practical experience NOT text. None of us picked up book of Bukhari to read salat procedure save few. It is ONLY through practical experience we get the picture.



(The narration in Muslim is also the same with minor changes in wordings).


1448. Abu Hurairah and Abu Sa`id Al-Khudri (May Allah be pleased with them) reported: The Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said, [size=13pt]“When a group of people assemble for the remembrance of Allah[/size], the angels surround them (with their wings), (Allah’s) mercy envelops them, Sakinah, or tranquillity descends upon them and Allah makes a mention of them before those who are near Him.” [Muslim].

Prophet(saw) is not deficient in the use of arabic word. In this hadith also is "gathering, group, congregation or assemblies of dhikr". It is ONLY when we stretch the meaning of dhikr we arrive at knowledge.


Indeed, in the remembrance of Allah you find rest. Once you forgo dhikr, calamities befalls. That's what's going on in Nigeria now. Return To Dhikrullah. Even christians understood this. If someone rejects group of dhikr, it is fine. It is NEVER compulsory. But to say it is innovation?. La la la la.

That's extremism!

Messenger of Allaah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) came out to a circle of his companions and said: “Why are you sitting here?” They said: We are sitting to remember Allaah and praise Him for having guided us to Islam and blessed us with it. He said: “By Allaah, are you only sitting for that purpose? They said: By Allaah, we are only sitting for that purpose. He said: “I did not ask you to swear because I am accusing you, but Jibreel came to me and told me that Allaah was boasting of you

from Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) who said: The Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “No people gather in one of the houses of Allaah, reciting the Book of Allaah and studying it together, but tranquillity will descend upon them, mercy will overshadow them, the angels will surround them and Allaah will mention them to those who are with Him.”

Op meant supplications,du'a ...dt isnt an innovation cuz its congregational......,i knw i lrnt alot dt way too
Allah knws best

^^^^

Lol......

You said Op meant supplication, but that has been deemed bid'a by some peopple as well. Dont worry, slowly but surely, they will take away Islam from people in the name of "INNOVATION".


Anyways, this is another version of the hadith you quoted above



1450. Abu Sa`id Al-Khudri (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: Mu`awiyah (May Allah be pleased with him) came to an assembly in the mosque and asked them: “What has made you sit together?” They replied, “We are sitting here to remember Allah.” He said, “I adjure you by Allah to tell me whether nothing else has made you to sit together.” They replied: “By Allah! We are sitting only to remember Allah.” Then he said, “I did not adjure you because I suspected you. No one of my rank in the eyes of the Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) is the narrator of so few traditions as I am. The fact is that the Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) went out to a circle of his Companions and said, `What has made you sit there?‘ When they replied that they are sitting together to remember Allah and to praise Him for guiding them to Islam and bestowing favours on them, he (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said, `I adjure you by Allah to tell me that nothing else has made you sit together.’ On their reply that there was certainly no other purpose, he (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said, `I did not adjure you because I suspected you, but Jibril (Gabriel) came to me and told me that Allah was talking proudly of you to the angels.”’

[Muslim].


Both version are correct. Hence, it is telling us that neither grup is bid'a or innovation. Qurtubi said, "Gatherings of dhikr are the gatherings for knowledge

No one has the right to condemn "group dhikr". No one has the right or monopoly to say it is bid'a unless you want to follow a sheik blindly because he said so which is "taqlid"

.....

Ssthorm:
Messenger of Allaah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) came out to a circle of his companions and said: “Why are you sitting here?” They said: We are sitting to remember Allaah and praise Him for having guided us to Islam and blessed us with it. He said: “By Allaah, are you only sitting for that purpose? They said: By Allaah, we are only sitting for that purpose. He said: “I did not ask you to swear because I am accusing you, but Jibreel came to me and told me that Allaah was boasting of you

from Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) who said: The Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “No people gather in one of the houses of Allaah, reciting the Book of Allaah and studying it together, but tranquillity will descend upon them, mercy will overshadow them, the angels will surround them and Allaah will mention them to those who are with Him.”

Op meant supplications,du'a ...dt isnt an innovation cuz its congregational......,i knw i lrnt alot dt way too
Allah knws best

Congregational Dua can be bid'ah such as the ones not prescribed in the sunnah and it can be permissible such as the one prescribed like coming together to pray for rain, dua is ibadaah and ibadaah is tawqeefi.

lexiconkabir:


Congregational Dua can be bid'ah such as the ones not prescribed in the sunnah and it can be permissible such as the one prescribed like coming together to pray for rain, dua is ibadaah and ibadaah is tawqeefi.

Congregational dua is bid ah but can be permissible like d rain dua? Subhanallah! Wat r u sayn?
If u tnk its bidah(congregational dua) but yet permissible den smtns arnt strait jst yet,may Allah increase us in understndn...if sahabas came togeda n d prophet didnt shun dem i duno wat else we tlkn here...it dusnt hv to b nly d rain dua

Empiree:
^^^^

Lol......

You said Op meant supplication, but that has been deemed bid'a by some peopple as well. Dont worry, slowly but shurelu, they will take away Islam from people in the name of "INNOVATION".


Anyways, this is another version of the hadith you quoted above



1450. Abu Sa`id Al-Khudri (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: Mu`awiyah (May Allah be pleased with him) came to an assembly in the mosque and asked them: “What has made you sit together?” They replied, “We are sitting here to remember Allah.” He said, “I adjure you by Allah to tell me whether nothing else has made you to sit together.” They replied: “By Allah! We are sitting only to remember Allah.” Then he said, “I did not adjure you because I suspected you. No one of my rank in the eyes of the Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) is the narrator of so few traditions as I am. The fact is that the Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) went out to a circle of his Companions and said, `What has made you sit there?‘ When they replied that they are sitting together to remember Allah and to praise Him for guiding them to Islam and bestowing favours on them, he (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said, `I adjure you by Allah to tell me that nothing else has made you sit together.’ On their reply that there was certainly no other purpose, he (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) said, `I did not adjure you because I suspected you, but Jibril (Gabriel) came to me and told me that Allah was talking proudly of you to the angels.”’

[Muslim].


Both version are correct. Hence, it is telling us that neither grup is bid'a or innovation. Qurtubi said, "Gatherings of dhikr are the gatherings for knowledge

No one has the right to condemn "group dhikr". No one has the right or monopoly to say it is bid'a unless you want to follow a sheik blindly because he said so which is "taqlid"

Baarakallahu alayk ...may Allah increase us all in knowledge,ameen

Ssthorm:







Congregational dua is bid ah but can be permissible like d rain dua? Subhanallah! Wat r u sayn?
If u tnk its bidah(congregational dua) but yet permissible den smtns arnt strait jst yet,may Allah increase us in understndn...if sahabas came togeda n d prophet didnt shun dem i duno wat else we tlkn here...it dusnt hv to b nly d rain dua

Did you understand what i said? Let me repeat it again, Congregational du'a is bid'ah as in Congregational du'a that were not prescribed in the sunnah, and it is also permissible as in the Congregational du'a that was prescribed in the sunnah an example of that is the du'a for rain, there are other du'as too that were prescribed, the Congregational du'a is bid'ah if it was not prescribed in the sunnah because du'a is ibaadah and ibaadah is tawqeefi(i.e worship Allaah as it is prescribed in the Qur'an and sunnah).....

Read this maybe you'll understand what i mean better https://islamqa.info/en/93757

By the way, the way you type makes it hard for me to read.

May Allah increase you all in knowledge (contributors). Please I need to understand this also so I knw if to continue with it or not.

What is the stance of using a car as a means of transportation and the use of phone, watching of TV, listening to radio, cos we all knw it doesn't exist then, and it wasn't practised by the prophet, can we call that Bid'a too?

Cc; Empire, Lexiconkabir, Rabiushile04 and others.

Edemaya:
May Allah increase you all in knowledge (contributors). Please I need to understand this also so I knw if to continue with it or not.

What is the stance of using a car as a means of transportation and the use of phone, watching of TV, listening to radio, cos we all knw it doesn't exist then, and it wasn't practised by the prophet, can we call that Bid'a too?

Cc; Emp.ire, Lexiconk.abir, Rabius.hile04 and others.

Lol, basically bid'ah is something done as an act of worship which was not prescribed by the prophet. For instance if you stand under the sun, we will ask you to leave the sun that its dangerous for your health, if you don't listen fine, but if you have the intention that standing under that sun is an act of worship, then we will ask you for your proof, if you cant provide a valid proof, then its bid'ah.

lexiconkabir:


Lol, basically bid'ah is something done as an act of worship which was not prescribed by the prophet. For instance if you stand under the sun, we will ask you to leave the sun that its dangerous for your health, if you don't listen fine, but if you have the intention that standing under that sun is an act of worship, then we will ask you for your proof, if you cant provide a valid proof, then its bid'ah.

Jazakha llah khaeran.

Edemaya:


Jazakha llah khaeran.

Wa ant fa jazaka Allaah khaira...

Edemaya:
May Allah increase you all in knowledge (contributors). Please I need to understand this also so I knw if to continue with it or not.

What is the stance of using a car as a means of transportation and the use of phone, watching of TV, listening to radio, cos we all knw it doesn't exist then, and it wasn't practised by the prophet, can we call that Bid'a too?

Cc; Empire, Lexiconkabir, Rabiushile04 and others.

Bismillaah, alhamdulilah. To keep it brief and concise, bidia involves innovation in the act of worship..using of spoon, TV, radio, phone does not necessarily involve acts of worship. These kinds of excuse that shey the prophet used spoon ni, or did he use microphone etc, these are lame excuses ppl of bidia use to back there proof of engaging in bidia..and any innovated matter leads to jahanam. And allaah knows best.