oaroloye:


Suppose you know that- OF WHAT POSSIBLE USE can that Knowledge be to you?

How could you apply that Knowledge in a USEFUL way that benefits the Average man- not ACADEMICS, who get PAID for juggling MYTHOLOGICAL IDEAS about things ordinary people can NEVER see, nor experience their whole life?

if everybody had that mindset we would not be where we are in science. Just go to YouTube and watch videos on quantum mechanics your perceptions will change have u ever imagined what it would be like if human beings could behave like waves.

yoged:
la cram la pour bro.

Hehehe nobody one carry last I plan to do it in masters though that's if it doesn't make me mad.

AkinPhysicist:


The Hamiltonian is an operator representing the total energy of the system. To get the total energy of the system all you have to do is compute the EXPECTATION VALUE of the Hamiltonian. This computed value is basically your total energy. Computing expectation value is trivial - if you need help I can show you.

Wow thanks. I hope to vibrate at your own frequency very soon with your help.

ponzihater:

You are too young to begin life like this.

I am too smart to buy into the obvious pathetic/cheap attempt hijack of the hard-work of science by lazy religious merchants.

ponzihater:

Google is your friend browse quantum mechanics

You should do EXACTLY this. Follow your own advice.

ponzihater:

and spirituality or Christianity and you'll several well framed article on the matter.

Anybody can write any article about anything. Have you read the article about the 'flying monkey civilization on the orbit of Jupiter?

ponzihater:

The fact that you can't articulate the subject title doesn't discountenance it.

Just because I find something stupid does not mean I cannot articulate it. Articulating something does not make it accurate or correct.

ponzihater:

Open ur lazy skull and research. And if you can't do that STFU.

Ad hominem. And researching quantum spirituality is like using a basket to fetch water - MAJOR waste of time.

ponzihater:

David Van Kovering is a scientist of repute but discovered the [b]connection between quantum mechanics and creation[/b]and marvelled at the possibility.

Anyone who makes the emboldened claim is a fraud that should not be taken seriously.

ponzihater:

Enjoy ur evening
Sgt Ponzi Hater

Do same

Again thrash. No such connection CAN exist. Quantum physics is an EXPERIMENTAL PHYSICAL science.

AkinPhysicist:

I am too smart to buy into the obvious pathetic/cheap attempt hijack of the hard-work of science by lazy religious merchants.


You should do EXACTLY this. Follow your own advice.


Anybody can write any article about anything. Have you read the article about the 'flying monkey civilization on the orbit of Jupiter?


Just because I find something stupid does not mean I cannot articulate it. Articulating something does not make it accurate or correct.


Ad hominem. And researching quantum spirituality is like using a basket to fetch water - MAJOR waste of time.


Anyone who makes the emboldened claim is a fraud that should not be taken seriously.


Do same

Again thrash. No such connection CAN exist. Quantum physics is an EXPERIMENTAL PHYSICAL science.

Shame on you!!!

fsfsfferf34:


of the art of love-making should be restricted to the hidden sexuality section.
5. Don't post pornographic or disgusting pictures or videos on any section of Nairaland.
6. Don't post adverts or affiliate links outside the areas where adverts are explicitly allowed.
7. Don't say, do, or THREATEN to do anything that's detrimental to the security, success, or reputation of Nairaland.
8. Don't post false information on Nairaland.
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10. Don't violate the privacy of any people e.g. by posting their private pics, info, or chats without permission.
11. Don't create distracting posts with: ALL WORDS BOLD / huge font sizes / ALL CAPS / distracting imagesspaces, etc.
12. Don't insert signatures into your posts. Instead, add the desired signature to your profile.
13. Please report any post or topic that violates the rules of Nairaland using the (Report) button.
14. Please search the forum before creating a new thread on Nairaland.
15. Don't attempt to post censored words by misspelling them.

And why did you quote me with all of the above please?

macphilip:

sorry, there is nothing interesting about this branch of physics that the OP is trying to package for you guys.
It all leads to total abstract physics that you would end up confusing yourself.

That is it, in a nutdhell!

Do you know the European Folktale called, "THE EMPEROR'S NEW ROBE?"

euromilion:
I have a quick question for you guys here.

Now, if a person was struck by a vehicle moving at the speed of 50kmph the person has 50% chance of surviving,but if a person was struck by vehicle moving at 60kmph the person has 90% chance of dying,why is that?

That is off-topic.

The Thread is about Quantum Physics, and you are talking about the Theory of General Relativity!

Phinity318:

I don't want examples of devices using QP
I mean giv us a dummy guide to testing QP as a DIY. project. u know how dy tell u to run a litmus paper test in chemistry lab.

You saw right through his rhetorical device!

fabre4:

Wow thanks. I hope to vibrate at your own frequency very soon with your help.

You are welcome. Anytime. I am here and willing to assist.

ponzihater:

Shame on you!!!

Why? Because I exposed you as a worthless charlatan?

AkinPhysicist:


Lasers, transistors, GPS, mobile phones just to name a few.

LASERS have nothing whatsoever to do with QUANTUM PHYSICS.

Light Amplified by Stimulated Emission of Radiation is about generating beams of light whose photons are all in one phase.

TRANSISTORS are the solid-state application of the TRIODE amplifier, by sandwiching semiconductor of two or more different types together, with a view to controlling the electric currents between them.

GPS- the Global Positioning System has absolutely nothing at all to do with "QUANTUM PHYSICS!"

This is a technique of locating the position of a radio transmitter by triangulation.

It is widely claimed this system depends on something called "satellites," but there is no evidence that they exist, nor play any role in GPS. It has always been land-based, and existed before Oyinbo began telling us that they could do it with "Space Satellites."

MOBILE PHONES have nothing whatsoever to do with QUANTUM PHYSICS.

They are just Radio Transmitters and Receivers, that is all.

Phinity318:
Op kindly tell us the practical application of QP

You know who you remind me of, right now?

MIKE TYSON at the height of his career!

When you debate someone, you are supposed to let the discussion continue for a bit....

You are not supposed to just... FINISH the opposition with your first question!

oaroloye:


LASERS have nothing whatsoever to do with QUANTUM PHYSICS.

Light Amplified by Stimulated Emission of Radiation is about generating beams of light whose photons are all in one phase.

TRANSISTORS are the solid-state application of the TRIODE amplifier, by sandwiching semiconductor of two or more different types together, with a view to controlling the electric currents between them.

GPS- the Global Positioning System has absolutely nothing at all to do with "QUANTUM PHYSICS!"

This is a technique of locating the position of a radio transmitter by triangulation.

It is widely claimed this system depends on something called "satellites," but there is no evidence that they exist, nor play any role in GPS. It has always been land-based, and existed before Oyinbo began telling us that they could do it with "Space Satellites."

MOBILE PHONES have nothing whatsoever to do with QUANTUM PHYSICS.

They are just Radio Transmitters and Receivers, that is all.

I was gonna reply you with a detailed post to correct your errors. Then I saw the emboldened. There is no way I can have a conversation with someone who is unable to convince himself of the existence of satellites. SMH

SHALOM!

Everybody should please take the time to go to my Profile, and research all my topics.

fabre4:


if everybody had that mindset we would not be where we are in science.

What "mindset" is that?

You asked the existential question "CAN QUANTUM PHYSICS BE USED TO DETERMINE THE POSITION AND MOMENTUM OF A PARTICLE?" which anybody who knows Physics knows the Oyinbos don't know how to do that, with their EMPEROR'S NEW ROBES PSEUDOCIENCE, and you are disparaging "MY MINDSET," because I asked, HOW COULD YOU USE THAT KNOWLEDGE, IF YOU HAD IT?

If you do not know the use of such Knowledge- and you may not even have realized that, UNTIL I ASKED YOU- what do you have to lose by admitting it?

This is why Nigeria is "NOWHERE" in Science: our academics follow Oyinbo into ALICE-IN-WONDERLAND RABBIT-HOLES of PRETEND KNOWLEDGE that has ABSOLUTELY NO APPLICATION IN REALITY.

Like FOREX SEMINARS, the people making the most money are those hosting the seminars.

So also the holders of Speculative Knowledge- which is claimed to exist in Reality, because it can be expressed "elegantly" in pretty little Equations that THE-MAN-ON-THE-STREET- who actually WORKS for a living- cannot possibly follow, nor care about, and is told to believe that those who do are better men and women than him.

To show how STUPID Oyinbo is: someone calculated (no one would say this without showing the calculations,) that THE HADRON SUPER-COLLIDER just MIGHT blow up the World: THEY BUILT THE DAMN THING, ANYWAY!

I forget how much it COST- probably ten times the amount it would take to feed and cure all the hungry and sick people in Africa, or some silly figure like that, Oyinbos are always throwing around. But now they have built it, and used it, EXACTLY HOW HAS IT MADE THE WORLD A BETTER PKACE?

THAT is "MY MINDSET:" I am the man who wants to know THAT- but YOU say that that is BAD OF ME!

Just go to YouTube and watch videos on quantum mechanics your perceptions will change

Is that where you got your "great Scientific Knowledge?"

Okay: YOUTUBE.

Have you seen the YOUTUBE Videos that prove that AMERICA NEVER LANDED MEN ON THE MOON?

A FUNNY THING HAPPENED ON THE WAY TO THE MOON, by Bart Sibrel.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xciCJfbTvE4

ASTRONAUTS GONE WILD, by Bart Sibrel.

(Buzz Lightyear (sic) punches Sibrel; Deathlok kicks his bottom!)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAbpWaDL4Zc

WAS IT ONLY A PAPER MOON? by James Collier.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQKtV9dX5FE

WHAT HAPPENED ON THE MOON? by David Percy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo5w0pm24ic

APOLLO ZERO, by Ryan.

"Mr. Bean" blows everything!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np1QSQOmaEU

DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT THE AMERICANS AND THEIR ALLIES HAVE A MANNED "SPACE-STATION" IN ORBIT?

Based on information I saw on YOUTUBE, I do not!

THE INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION DOES NOT EXIST, by Eric DuBay.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e-RnKAN9qY

DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT THE OYINBOS HAVE LANDED A ROBOT ON MARS?

Based on ingpformation provided by YOUTUBE, I do not!

CURIOSITY IS IN GREENLAND.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07P62erIczY

MARS ENVIRONMENT ON DEVON ISLAND.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQKnUJTQicA

DID YOU KNOW THAT ALL OF THE NASA IMAGES OF A "PLANET EARTH" ARE FAKED?

If not for YOUTUBE, we might never have known!

NASA INSIDER EXPOSES THE FLAT EARTH! by Matthew Boylan.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fj8xOBoDznc

NASA'S FAKE BALL EARTH VERSUS THE REAL EARTH, by Eric DuBay.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHwfVn4xZFY

NASA'S FAKE IMAGES OF EARTH: THE SMOKING GUN (1-4).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35n9FLAoiA8


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En6ot0bDr4Y


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyzRNv3KJqE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIL-5VxoKSs

200 PROOFS THE EARTH IS NOT A SPINNING BALL, by Eric DuBay. (2 hours!)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k79Hj8XUNFM

THE FLAT EARTH CONSPIRACY DOCUMENTARY, by Eric DuBay. (1 hour 29 mins.)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFjG4jpUhQI

FLAT EARTH - THE BEST INTERVIEW YET, Eric DuBay. (2 hours 35 mins.)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCtIcL4JVPY

OR, ARE YOU ONE OF THOSE WHO ONLY BELIEVES IN "ALMIGHTY YOUTUBE" WHEN IT SAYS THINGS YOU WANT TO HEAR?

There was NO HOLOCAUST- the alleged extermination of SIX MILLION WHITE JEWS by Nazi Germany during World War II, that was the basis of Oyinbos who said they were Jews (but were actually merely White CONVERTS to Judaism,) seizing control of PALESTINE, ousting the people who had lived there for centuries.

How do we know that there was NO HOLOCAUST?

Even because NO SIX MILLION CORPSES were ever found!

How was this terrible discrepancy in the STORY accounted for?

There are no bodies to be found, we were told, because THE NAZIS BURNED THEM!

That would elegantly explain why those bodies were not found- except for ONE FACT- it is SCIENTIFICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for the Nazis to have been ABLE to dispose of THAT MANY BODIES by FIRE with the RESOURCES they had to hand!

INTRODUCTION TO THE HOLOHOAX.

1. THE BIG LIE: Part 1 of 3.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acPfPG457cw

2. THE PHOTOS: Part 2 of 3.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mylBZHPw3_A

3. A HISTORY OF LIES: Part 3 of 3.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwYnVJniTaI

4. HOLOHOAX DOCUMENTARY.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JRektZf51M

5. THE HOLOCAUST EXPOSED IN 30 MINUTES!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpjqf-vNq6I

THE BIG QUESTION IS: WHERE WERE THE SCIENTISTS OUT OF EVERY NATION, TO COME OUT AND DENOUNCE THE HOLOCAUST HOAX?

To put it bluntly, these people are morally-worthless, and work for money, rather than truth.

have u ever imagined what it would be like if human beings could behave like waves.

ANSWER THE DAMN QUESTION!

If you coukd determine the position and momentum of a particle, WHAT CIULD YOU DO WITH THAT INFORMATION?

Instead, like a good little ILLUMINATI GATEKEEPER SLAVE, you disparage that line of questioning, and deflect by PLAYING UPON OUR INTELLIGENCE, to discourage not only myself, but all other readers, relying on the PAVLOVIAN PSYCHOLOGICAL CONTROL TRIGGERS installed by the FAKE Educational System.

When is there a time when Human beings do not "BEHAVE LIKE WAVES?"

Since EVERYTHING is a WAVE, how can ANYTHING behave any differently?

Perhaps you do not even know what you are talking about, and are just stringing words together.

All of the Spiritual Schools have said that the World is made of waves from antiquity- Oyinbo Science, according to ARTHUR C. CLARKE gives through three phases:

1. THAT'S THE MOST RIDUCULOUS THING I EVER HEARD OF.

2. I ALWAYS THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD IDEA.

3. I THOUGHT OF IT FIRST!

OYINBOS INVADE OTHER LANDS, AND KILL OFF ITS WISE MEN, LITERALLY OR FIGURATIVELY- SAYING THAT THEIR IDEAS ARE "RUBBISH!"

Then they TRANSLATE those ideas into NUMBERS, then from NUMBERS back into ENGLISH- and then claim that THEY INVENTED THEM!

AkinPhysicist:

Once again you show an abject lack of knowledge of the fundamentals of quantum physics. The ONLY way the particle in the box can have a non-zero probability of existing outside the box is through quantum tunneling. Because the wall of the box represents 'infinite potential' there is no classical way the particle can surmount this 'obstacle' hence quantum tunneling. You have described quantum tunneling but yet you believe its something else. Simultaneous? Of course - the wave function is always represented as a snapshot in time. Go and review your undergraduate particle in the box notes and you will see the wave function is represented as a function of position NOT time. What you have described is quantum tunneling which has been confirmed experimentally decades ago. Your lack of understanding is confusing you.

you miscontrued the point, i used the word "both", the electron has a non-zero probability of being outside the box after time t,no argument about that , but this statement does not mean an electron can exist both in the box and out of the box at the same time, it only means the electron either exists in the box or out of the box, with each likely occurrence having its probability.In other words i mean the probability of it existing both in the box and out of the box is 0.and stop repeating the statement,"it has been proven experimentally decades ago", i am not disputing the phenomenon "quantum tunnelling",it exists, anyone can check that out on google.

AkinPhysicist:

You have a long way to go in understanding basic physics let alone quantum physics. The charge of an electron is intrinsic. The idea of 'charging' an electron is nonsensical. You are confusing static electric field of a charge with EM generated by an accelerated charge. Now, if I grant your ridiculous claim that static electric field is the solution to explain the wave nature of subatomic particles then, how do you explain the wave behavior of a neutral subatomic particle like the neutron?. Your 'theory' fails because it doesn't even pass a cursory logical test. This is because you don't understand physics.

you didnt understand "can" in the context, i meant "an electron is charged or has a charge", and i never suggested that accelerated electrons do not produce electromagnetic fields, they do, but you suggested in an earlier post that, only accelerated electrons produce magnetic fields which is false. you should read landau lifshitz volume 2(classical theory of fields), it probably provides the most indepth knowledge on the subject.

AkinPhysicist:

Another evidence of lack of basic understanding. The equation you wrote says a particle of charge q and velocity v INSIDE a magnetic field of strength B will experience a force F. This force is the force the magnetic field EXERTS on the charge. This is different from the charge itself GENERATING an EM field due to its vibrational (accelerating motion). You are showing a lack of understanding of basic concepts. You need to calm down and think.

A charge does not have to accelerate to produce an electromagnetic field,but ur statement(bolded) only implies that.However, conversely a charge has to accelerate to be able to produce electromagnetic radiations.electromagnetic radiations are oscillating electromagnetic fields or stem from changing components of an electromagnetic field(but the resultant energy of the electromagnetic field is constant though). Refer to Landau lifshitz volume 2, page 103-105

AkinPhysicist:

The same way a car moving with constant velocity experiences a force when it is rear-ended by a tipper -what don't you get?
You are confused because you don't know basics. The field of a charge does not affect the charge itself but other charges around it. This is high school physics 101 - go an review it.

what do you mean by The field of a charge does not affect the charge itself but other charges around it?the word itself does not mean exerting a force on itself, it means the force is mutual, a magnetic force is exerted on an electron in the magnetic field becos it exerts the same magnitude of magnetic force.Simple.

AkinPhysicist:

Long epistle but still does not explain the wave behavior of a neutral subatomic particle - this is why your 'theory' fails. If your 'theory' only applies to charged particles then it is of no value.

my theory is not fully fledged, i am still developing,infact i only talked about it here because, this is an informal platform.You will agree with me that a neutron has an intrinsic magnetic moment,but is electrically neutral when stationary. an electric field can be generated by a change in magnetic field, the motion of a neutron causes a change in magnetic field, hence electric field is produced,so u see, a neutron produces an electromagnetic field when it is in motion.

AkinPhysicist:

Your formula is incorrect. F is NOT magnetic field produced by the electron. F is magnetic force exerted on the electron. Please go and learn basics. The formula you want is (is the cross product formula): B = constant qv X rhat/r^2. This is the magnetic field produced by a charge.
Trivial - physics 101
Trivial - physics 101

oh my oh my, you dont get it bro,i didnt need B = constant qv X rhat/r^2 to prove my point,the equation F=Bqvsin(theta) is just good enough to prove my point, a magnetic field precludes a magnetic force,an electron with a velocity v, experiences a magnetic force in an external magnetic field becos it exerts the same magnitude of magnetic force, i expected u to understood,the significance of each symbol,i can always get any equation and definition of symbols by googling it,so u see, u re being condescending,my formula wasn't wrong, i only didn't define the symbols. you seem to eager to show that you know a lot of equations, nd thts fine.I am happy you brought this equation up,based on ur proposed equation B = constant qv X rhat/r^2 ,it is logical to say that an electron moving at a constant velocity produces a magnetic field ,irrespective of the state of motion of the electron. The electron produces an electric field too .what do you call a field consisting of both a magnetic and an electric field component? i would call it electromagnetic.so it is only logical to say that an electron moving at constant velocity, v produces an electromagnetic field,if you agree with this logical input, then it is not logical to say that only accelerated electrons produce electromagnetic fields like u suggested in an earlier post,but because by virtue of your equation and the gauss law, an electron moving at a constant velocity should produce an electromagnetic field, but you can suppose that an electromagnetic wave(by definition-photons). Even an electron stationary but spinning produces an electromagnetic field.Perhaps you should explain what you understand by an electromagnetic field or what you call a field that consists of both an electric component and a magnnetic component?You keep saying 101, i dont know where you studied physics, but i can only suppose phys 101 is the 1st physics, nd as far as i am concerned its newtonian mechanics.

benji93:

you miscontrued the point, i used the word "both", the electron has a non-zero probability of being outside the box after time t,no argument about that that, but this statement does not mean an electron can exist both in the box and out of the box at the same time, it only means the electron either exists in the box or out of the box, with each likely occurrence having its probability.In other words i mean the probability of it existing both in the box and out of the box is 0.and stop repeating the statement,it has been proven experimentally decades ago, i am disputing the phenomenon "quantum tunnelling" anyone can check that out on google.

I'll wade in on this. I don't care about the rest, I'm sure you guys can resolve that.

Actually, benji93 is right on this. But he got the name wrong. The phenomenon of a multitude of possible states existing at the same time isn't quantum tunneling but it's a quantum superposition of states.

Since any physical measurement necessarily decoheres a quantum superposed state thereby yielding any of its components depending on their respective probability amplitudes (i.e wavefunction collapse upon measurement), it's impossible to observe a quantum superposed state e. g observing a state where Schrödinger's cat is simultaneously dead and alive.

That is exactly the reason why the existence of quantum superposed states is among the postulates of quantum mechanics. Keyword: postulate.

So, it can't be directly proven but including it in the formalism of QM is very necessary for QM to work.

But QM works really well, so it seems they might really exist but it can't be proven... maybe until someone finds a way of avoiding wavefunction collapse. The reality we will be able to see will be utterly stupefying!

Or someone finds a way of formulating QM without the need for superposed states, leading to the death of probability and the resurgence of determinism. The world will become sad and boring!

There's a nice new sci-fi novel (Dark Matter) that explores the idea of being able to avoid the collapse of a wavefunction and then picking any one of the available states thatake up a quantum superposed state... a novel about human choices and possibilities!

I hope this clears your misunderstanding on this issue.

What's with this thread turning stale and crappy and pseudo-scienfic in such a short amount of time

I thought this will be a nice thread for smart Nigerians to talk about cool stuff!

Exciton:
What's with this thread turning stale and crappy and pseudo-scienfic in such a short amount of time

I thought this will be a nice thread for smart Nigerians to talk about cool stuff!

Akin spoilt the thread when he foolishly and erroneously manned the thread as the only true custodian of the scope and depth of quantum mechanics. An aspect of physics that is still being explored till this day in both the scientific and religious world.

Exciton:


I'll wade in on this. I don't care about the rest, I'm sure you guys can resolve that.

Actually, benji93 is right on this. But he got the name wrong. The phenomenon of a multitude of possible states existing at the same time isn't quantum tunneling but it's a quantum superposition of states.

Since any physical measurement necessarily decoheres a quantum superposed state thereby yielding any of its components depending on their respective probability amplitudes (i.e wavefunction collapse upon measurement), it's impossible to observe a quantum superposed state e. g observing a state where Schrödinger's cat is simultaneously dead and alive.

That is exactly the reason why the existence of quantum superposed states is among the postulates of quantum mechanics. Keyword: postulate.

So, it can't be directly proven but including it in the formalism of QM is very necessary for QM to work.

But QM works really well, so it seems they might really exist but it can't be proven... maybe until someone finds a way of avoiding wavefunction collapse. The reality we will be able to see will be utterly stupefying!

Or someone finds a way of formulating QM without the need for superposed states, leading to the death of probability and the resurgence of determinism. The world will become sad and boring!

There's a nice new sci-fi novel (Dark Matter) that explores the idea of being able to avoid the collapse of a wavefunction and then picking any one of the available states thatake up a quantum superposed state... a novel about human choices and possibilities!

I hope this clears your misunderstanding on this issue.

seriously, that guy is damn condescending, but no wahala, meanwhile, you defined the existence of more than 1 possible state, as the quantum superposition of states, tht goes witht saying, i was not really commenting on tht, our friend said in a previous post in quantum physics an electron can occupy two positions at the same time. and he called it quantum tunnelling,thts incoherent, he also claims tht only accelerated electrons produce electromagnetic fields, do u believe that, he even further to stipulated tht the wave function is only position dependent, the wave function is represented by the differential equation d^2y/dx^2=(1/v^2)d^2y^2/d^t2(d is partial) which has a general solution y=f(x+-vt), where v =velocity, the differential eqn is directly derivable from analysing the dynamics of a travelling wave(e.g an oscillating rope).thts for that,bro.

I love it when physicists argue

Exciton:


I'll wade in on this. I don't care about the rest, I'm sure you guys can resolve that.

Actually, benji93 is right on this. But he got the name wrong. The phenomenon of a multitude of possible states existing at the same time isn't quantum tunneling but it's a quantum superposition of states.

Since any physical measurement necessarily decoheres a quantum superposed state thereby yielding any of its components depending on their respective probability amplitudes (i.e wavefunction collapse upon measurement), it's impossible to observe a quantum superposed state e. g observing a state where Schrödinger's cat is simultaneously dead and alive.

That is exactly the reason why the existence of quantum superposed states is among the postulates of quantum mechanics. Keyword: postulate.

So, it can't be directly proven but including it in the formalism of QM is very necessary for QM to work.

But QM works really well, so it seems they might really exist but it can't be proven... maybe until someone finds a way of avoiding wavefunction collapse. The reality we will be able to see will be utterly stupefying!

Or someone finds a way of formulating QM without the need for superposed states, leading to the death of probability and the resurgence of determinism. The world will become sad and boring!

There's a nice new sci-fi novel (Dark Matter) that explores the idea of being able to avoid the collapse of a wavefunction and then picking any one of the available states thatake up a quantum superposed state... a novel about human choices and possibilities!

I hope this clears your misunderstanding on this issue.

I disagree Akin is right. If benji doesn't know what he is talking about then there is no way he is correct. Also on magnetic field due to a charge vs magnetic force experienced by a charge, Akin is right and benji is wrong. Trust me, I would love to see Akin wrong since he is one of my archenemies in politics section, but on this thread, Akin's posts are the most accurate and scientific - whether I like the guy or not.

Ay92:
I love it when physicists argue

Same here but it seems ONLY Akin and benji are credible physicists here. The rest seem to be copy and paste papas.

ponzihater:


Akin spoilt the thread when he foolishly and erroneously manned the thread as the only true custodian of the scope and depth of quantum mechanics. An aspect of physics that is still being explored till this day in both the scientific and religious world.

ponzi I think the guy is referring to you

GodIsBiafran:


I disagree Akin is right. If benji doesn't know what he is talking about then there is no way he is correct. Also on magnetic field due to a charge vs magnetic force experienced by a charge, Akin is right and benji is wrong. Trust me, I would love to see Akin wrong since he is one of my archenemies in politics section, but on this thread, Akin's posts are the most accurate and scientific - whether I like the guy or not.

benji93:

is there any experimental proof that an electron could be in a box and outside a box at the same time, there is none, thts a theory, there is a proof of the wave-like behaviour of electrons(double slit),you seem not to be following the argument, i am not disputing the verity of this fact, but i am disputing the reason provided for it.The double slit experiment explains the wave-like behaviour, due to the effect of superposition.Generally we ascribe this to the probablistic behaviour of electrons, but i dont agree with this fact.A theory in this regard is a proposal meant to express a fact,the theory could be correct but the reason provided for the theory could be reasonable but tht does not make it true.So in certain cases, a theory could be a reason for an occurence,in other cases a theory could be the occurence itself.We need to understand which stance a proposal takes.

This is why I said benji93 was right. I didn't bother to read his post that I used to create my reply. I only wanted to point out the diff between Q.tunneling and superposition.

Now, I go add my summary on their argument:

Akin was definitely wrong when he claimed a state consisting of a particle existing in 2 places at once has been experimentally verified. According to QM, such states exist but they can't be measured directly because of wavefunction collapse upon measurement. While QT is basically a phenomenon whereby the particle has a non-zero probability of crossing a finite potential barrier when it's energy is less than the said barrier. That has been experimentally verified... in fact, it's the basis of modern electronics. Akin was clearly right about this. But Akin was wrong to claim that a particle can tunnel through an infinite potential barrier. That's not possible, the probability is zero.

Benji93 doesn't agree with the probabilistic nature of measurement in QM. That's okay. Some people don't agree with the Copenhagen interpretation. They think QM isn't a complete theory. But Benji doesn't disagree for the same reasons that they do. His hypothesis is very wrong. Benji doesn't understand these concepts clearly I think.

Now the rest, Akin is obviously right. Didn't bother about these cos you don't even need a brain cell to find the answers on google. Benji93's statements on these are wrong and shows he doesn't understand these as well.

1. Only moving charges can experience a magnetic force.

2. Only accelerating charges can radiate EM waves.

3. Basically everything Benji93 wrote isn't correct. Apart from the experimental proof part.

Exciton:






This is why I said benji93 was right. I didn't bother to read his post that I used to create my reply. I only wanted to point out the diff between Q.tunneling and superposition.

Now, I go add my summary on their argument:

Akin was definitely wrong when he claimed a state consisting of a particle existing in 2 places at once has been experimentally verified. According to QM, such states exist but they can't be measured directly because of wavefunction collapse upon measurement. While QT is basically a phenomenon whereby the particle has a non-zero probability of crossing a finite potential barrier when it's energy is less than the said barrier. That has been experimentally verified... in fact, it's the basis of modern electronics. Akin was clearly right about this. But Akin was wrong to claim that a particle can tunnel through an infinite potential barrier. That's not possible, the probability is zero.

Benji93 doesn't agree with the probabilistic nature of measurement in QM. That's okay. Some people don't agree with the Copenhagen interpretation. They think QM isn't a complete theory. But Benji doesn't disagree for the same reasons that they do. His hypothesis is very wrong. Benji doesn't understand these concepts clearly I think.

Now the rest, Akin is obviously right. Didn't bother about these cos you don't even need a brain cell to find the answers on google. Benji93's statements on these are wrong and shows he doesn't understand these as well.

1. Only moving charges can experience a magnetic force.

2. Only accelerating charges can radiate EM waves.

3. Basically everything Benji93 wrote isn't correct. Apart from the experimental proof part.

obviously, u didnt understand what i wrote,i never claimed moving force, my claim was moving charges produce electromagnetic fields, akin claims otherwise,he opines that only accelerated charges produce electromagnetic field.He implies that,an electromagnetic field implies an electromagnetic wave, and vise versal, which is not true, while an electromagnetic wave implies an electromagnetic field, the reverse is not true, or in order words an electromagnetic wave is a subset of an electromagnetic field.
2.I am not disbuting hte fact that accelerated charges radiate EM waves.Obviously you didnt read my posts in details, or you didnt understnad my point.
3.You were right about my believe in the deterministic nature of measurement in QM.Obviously i do nto believe i nthe copenhagen interpretation, which implies that by measurement(as applied to the double slit) we force nature to make a decision,informally, electrons know when we are watching.I believe that the measuring instrument interferes with the pattern to be created by electrons.My point in this regard stems from the properties of the measuring system, the question is how does the instrument measure which slit the electrons pass through,does it not produce electromagnetic radiations or Electromagnetic field in the process?thts my general opinion on that point.
4.The other thing i disagree with is the conclusion of a section of the experiment.The interference pattern created by electrons passing through the double slit, made scientists suggest that probably,the pattern could have been due to collisions between electrons(thts even very unlikely, there would be chaos, hence, we should not have the fine interference pattern created).So they setup a control-allowing the electrons through 1 after the other,believing that in this case, there should be no interference. By performing this experiment,2 strips where initially formed, which is reminiscent of the particle nature, but after a considerable period of time(1 hr), the interference pattern forms again.My misgiving concerning this is that,after a period of time, you will likely have a cloud of electrons in the set up,so you can still have an interference pattern.

GodIsBiafran:

I disagree Akin is right. If benji doesn't know what he is talking about then there is no way he is correct. Also on magnetic field due to a charge vs magnetic force experienced by a charge, Akin is right and benji is wrong. Trust me, I would love to see Akin wrong since he is one of my archenemies in politics section, but on this thread, Akin's posts are the most accurate and scientific - whether I like the guy or not.

Honestly, that Akin guy is just a brain box. He just has a way of thinking and analyzing issues that blows me away. It is sad that we have smart people like this in this country and yet we are lagging behind. My only problem with Akin is that he is very impatient. He doesn't 'suffer' fools not even for a second. Which is understandable since many of our country people like to shoot their mouths on issues they don't understand. All the same, I believe that Akin can be too harsh a times. My two cents.

Is there any different between waves and field?

THE solutions to nigeria problem lies in the STEP POTENTIAL.