Zealoy:
leave that thing joor as long as am not killing anybody or stealing anyone's money nothing is stoping me not even d recession, the problem with we Nigerians is that we are blinded by religions as if religion go put food for my table

Religion(Islam) has to offer you what is more than food. Take the relationship btw a father and a child for example. There are laid down rules which are be expected to be followed by the child. So will saying you obeying you father's rules mean you are blinded by him? No! because you father brought you to life, he provides for you, he cares for you. So you must also obey him if you don't want to be punished. Same thing applies to God, Allah has rules and guides clearly stated in the holy Quran and it is expected of all creatures to follow without any complain. Failure to do so is very disastrous as applied to parents too

ak47yong:
I have been asking this question for the past six months too. Any answer will be helpful

. Guy it is Haram. It is not from ribbon.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM WITH MMM BIKO. THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF SCAMMERS OUT THERE UNA NO FIT DISCOURAGE PEOPLE NA THIS ONE WEY PEOPLE DEY GAIN UNA DEY TAKE PANADOL FOR EEH? SEE NAIRABET, BETNAIJA ETC. DEY NO WORSE PASS MMM? BC U USE YOUR MONEY PLAY POOL U LOOSE WETIN CONCERN UNA. BABA IJEBU SEF DON JOIN MMM WITH ALPHAS AND PASTORS. OYO IS UNA CASE BIKO

Adek15:
Salam guys. I've been introduced to MMM since early this year but I was skeptical about it which made me to make some findings especially about where the 30% comes from among others. from my findings I think I'm convinced it's not haram (prohibited) but I still need some advice as I might be wrong. so brothers/sisters, is MMM acceptable Islamically?

pls evidence from the Quran/Sunnah will be highly appreciated. thanks.

If it is interest they are paying on your investment then it is a MAJOR Sin.

The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) explained the seven sins that doom a person to Hell in a saheeh hadeeth that was narrated by the two Shaykhs, al-Bukhaari and Muslim, in as-Saheehayn, in which it was narrated that the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “Avoid the seven sins that doom a person to Hell.” We said: What are they, O Messenger of Allah? He said: “Associating others with Allah (shirk); witchcraft; killing a soul whom Allah has forbidden us to kill, except in cases dictated by Islamic law; consuming orphans’ wealth; consuming riba; fleeing from the battlefield; and slandering chaste, innocent women.”

[color=#990000][/color] MMM IS HARAM FOR YOU THAT WANT TO KNOW THE FACT EVEN NOT ONLY THAT, THE MONEY WE BORROW FROM MTN IS HARAM ALS

Abdulismzip:
[color=#990000][/color] MMM IS HARAM FOR YOU THAT WANT TO KNOW THE FACT EVEN NOT ONLY THAT, THE MONEY WE BORROW FROM MTN IS HARAM ALS

Slow down, buddy. Borrowing money is not haram. It's becomes haram if MTN charges interest in return.

Okundaye4:
Alright noted. But as long as am making cool cash from MMM, who cares?

Nobody really

But the OP asked for the position of Islam on this matter because he believes that God cares

Empiree:
Slow down, buddy. Borrowing money is not haram. It's becomes haram if MTN charges interest in return.

And MTN actually charges interest

nature2abdul:
Honestly we must look inward with open mind to translate these verse to suit the present realities of things. We should not just look at the literal meaning of these verses and be carjol into them. It is those direct translations that leads to all these deadly groups that kills people anyhow.

Good point
So shall we then listen to the opinion of scholars on this matter

nature2abdul:

All Islamic countries with all their Quranic knowledge directly or indirectly keyed into the financial system of the world which are riddled with interest- the type we are against.
Check out these involvement:
If you ever put your money in the bank.
Saudi Arabia is presently having more than 500billion dollar in their foreign reserve a system we are all against. All these money is in the west. Imagine if they rotate this money among Islamic countries as a free interest loan.

It is not enough to want to help, the borrower must repay!
Imagine the number of people who will ask people for loan and not repay

nature2abdul:

MMM 30% is to encourage people to help themselves. And this money is certain to come.

Please can you prove to me that the money is certain to come

Because the website itself says nothing is guaranteed

Read

Please note that the use of the words 30% a month cannot be considered as a yield or interest rate since the funds were given away, we are not earning anything anywhere (we are a mutual-aid fund), and nobody promises or guarantees to pay it! Read over THE WARNING.

nature2abdul:
I wonder if the definition of gambling has changed!
What has all the Muslim world done with their dollars to help the downtrodden Muslims apart from sponsoring sectarian crises?

The definition of gambling has not changed, but the deals/schemes are being configured in various ways
It is all about great wealth without serious effort

If downtrodden muslims are not supported, it is an opportunity for you to step in and show good example
There will always be sectrarianism whether or not downtrodden muslims are supported

nature2abdul:
Must we criticize every progressive moves just because it is not coming from our scholars.
SO what is the difference between your approach and that of the terrorists you condemn above
Both of you are using your "open mind" to interpret the verses

Anyway there is nothing progressive about making 30% without effort or understanding the nature of the business
Warren Buffet is among the top richest men in the world
Although Bill Gates is his friend, he refused to invest in Microsoft because he did not understand the business
How many rich people do you know that have made good money form businesses that they don't know or understansd

[quote author=nature2abdul post=51141592]
Buhari is already trying to borrow $29b with plenty interest. This should be our concern and not individuals quest to be financially stable.

Financial stability can only come from doing something you know, understand and can influence
You can never be truly financially stable by depending on others for "help"

https://www.naij.com/1053650-11-stages-addiction-every-mmm-new-convert-goes-no-6-soooo-true.html

11 stages of addiction every MMM new convert goes through

1. You think it is a scam
2. Someone tries to convince you otherwise
3. You register because of someone
4. You start with little money because you still have doubt
5. You get help
6. You increase your investment
7. You get desperate for referral bonus
8. You become an MMM promoter
9. You refuse to believe it will crash
10. You don’t believe it is a scam
11. You start to spend money anyhow

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMM_(Ponzi_scheme_company)

History

MMM was established in 1989 by Sergei Mavrodi,[2] his brother Vyacheslav Mavrodi, and Olga Melnikova. The name of the company was taken from the first letters of the three founders' surnames.

Initially, the company imported computers and office equipment. In January 1992, tax police accused MMM of tax evasion, leading to the collapse of MMM-bank, and causing the company to have difficulty obtaining financing to support its operations. Faced with difficulties in funding its foreign trade, the company switched to the financial sector. It offered American stocks to Russian investors, but met with little success. Later, MMM-Invest was created for the purpose of collecting vouchers during privatisation. This effort was similarly unsuccessful.[citation needed]

MMM created its successful Ponzi scheme in 1994. The company started attracting money from private investors, promising annual returns of up to one thousand percent. It is unclear whether a Ponzi scheme was Mavrodi's initial intention, inasmuch as such extravagant returns might have been possible during the Russian hyperinflation in such commerce as import-export.[citation needed]

MMM grew rapidly. In February 1994, the company reported dividends of 1,000%, and started an aggressive TV ad campaign. Since the shares were not quoted on any stock exchange and the company itself determined the share price, it maintained a steady price growth of thousands of percent annually, leading the public to believe its shares were a safe and profitable investment.[citation needed]

An important factor in the scheme's success was word of mouth, but most of the company's success came from its extremely aggressive ad campaign, which appealed to the general public by using "ordinary" characters that viewers could identify with. The most famous of them, a "folk hero" of early 1994, was Lyonya Golubkov. Another notable marketing effort was a giveaway of free Metro trips to all Moscow citizens on a particular day. MMM also was one of the first well-known companies in Russia with a logotype and slogans ("Flying from shadow to the light" and others).[citation needed]

At its peak the company was taking in more than 100 billion rubles (about 50 million USD) each day from the sale of its shares to the public. Thus, the cashflow turnover at the MMM central office in Moscow was so high that it could not be estimated. The management started to count money in roomfuls (1 roomful of money, 2 roomfuls of money, etc.).[citation needed]

Regular publication in the media of the rising MMM share price led President Boris Yeltsin to issue a decree in June 1994 prohibiting financial institutions from publicising their expected income.[citation needed]

The success of MMM in attracting investors led to the creation of other similar companies, including Tibet, Chara, Khoper-Invest, Selenga, Telemarket, and Germes. All of these companies were characterised by aggressive television advertising and extremely high promised rates of return. One company promised annual returns of 30,000%.[citation needed]

On July 22, 1994, the police closed the offices of MMM for tax evasion. For a few days the company attempted to continue the scheme, but soon ceased operations. At that point, Invest-Consulting, one of the company's subsidiaries, owed more than 50 billion rubles in taxes (USD 26 million), and MMM itself owed between 100 billion and 3 trillion rubles to the investors (from USD 50 million to USD 1.5 billion). In the aftermath at least 50 investors, having lost all of their money, committed suicide.[citation needed]

Several organisations of "deceived investors" made efforts to recover their lost investments, but Sergei Mavrodi manipulated their indignation and directed it at the government. In August 1994 Mavrodi was arrested for tax evasion. However, he was soon elected to the Russian State Duma, with the support of the "deceived investors". He argued that the government, not MMM, was responsible for people losing their money, and promised to initiate a pay-back program. The amount ultimately paid back was minuscule compared to the amount owed.[citation needed]

In October 1995, the Duma cancelled Mavrodi's right to immunity as a deputy. In 1996, he tried to run for Russia's presidency, but most of the signatures he received were rejected. MMM declared bankruptcy on September 22, 1997.[citation needed]

While it was believed that Sergei Mavrodi left Russia and moved to the United States, it is possible that he stayed in Moscow, using his money to change apartments regularly and employ a group of former special agents. With the help of a distant relative he started Stock Generation Ltd., another pyramid scheme based around trading non-existent companies' stocks in a form of the "stock exchange game" on the company's site, stockgeneration.com. Despite a bold-letter warning on the main page that the site was not a real stock exchange, between 20,000 and 275,000 people, according to various estimates, fell for the promised 200% returns and lost their money. According to U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, losses of victims were at least USD 5.5 million.[citation needed]

Mavrodi was found and arrested in 2003. While in custody, Mavrodi was given until January 31, 2006 to read the documents in his fraud case against him (The criminal case consisted of 650 volumes, each 250-270 pages long).[citation needed] At the end of April 2007, Mavrodi was convicted of fraud, and given a sentence of four and a half years. Since he had already spent over four years in custody, he was released less than a month later, on May 22, 2007.[citation needed] He later went on to creating yet another pyramid scheme called MMM-2011.

The MMM scandal led to increased regulation of the Russian stock market, but the legacy of the fraud led many to become extremely suspicious of any joint stock companies.

In 2015 MMM began operating in South Africa with the same business model as MMM-2011, claiming a "30% per month" return through a "social financial network".[3] The group was identified as a possible pyramid scheme by the National Consumer Commission and accounts of clients were later frozen by Capitec Bank.[4] In response to mounting criticism and official investigations by state authorities in 2016 supporters of the South African MMM scheme staged a protest march in Johannesburg.[5]

.[6]

In January 2016 the Chinese government banned MMM on the grounds that it is a pyramid scheme, (Ponzi scheme), and it is not registered in the country (and as a fraudulent scheme cannot be registered).

BetaThings:

Good point
So shall we then listen to the opinion of scholars on this matter


It is not enough to want to help, the borrower must repay!
Imagine the number of people who will ask people for loan and not repay


Please can you prove to me that the money is certain to come

Because the website itself says nothing is guaranteed

Read



The definition of gambling has not changed, but the deals/schemes are being configured in various ways
It is all about great wealth without serious effort

If downtrodden muslims are not supported, it is an opportunity for you to step in and show good example
There will always be sectrarianism whether or not downtrodden muslims are supported

International loan has its modalities. These modalities must be adhered to by the borrowing nations. So no Nation can abscond from the agreement of loan.
On the issues of crashing, I think someone else has answered that. Even conventional banks are also crashing today. Are we not still operating them?
MMM can only crash when members have stop providing help due to the panic
that individuals and and government agencies are creating. Do you know that as big as first bank, if people stop depositing their money out of panic and only go there to withdraw, it will crash within a Day?
On the issue of 'help', no body is giving out free money to anybody. You need to make more research on what they call help In MMM.
MMM is a system that seek to deviate from the conventional banking system that is so skewed in favour of the rich.

Empiree:
Slow down, buddy. Borrowing money is not haram. It's becomes haram if MTN charges interest in return.

True that

Borrowing or lending is not harram until intrest is involed

ikupakuti:


True that

Borrowing or lending is not harram until intrest is involed

BetaThings:

And MTN actually charges interest

Really? . Why would people borrow m Kinney for calls? . Isn't better to work and earn money than borrowing from them? .

Do they give time before charging interest?.

Empiree:
Really? . Why would people borrow m Kinney for calls? . Isn't better to work and earn money than borrowing from them? .

Do they give time before charging interest?.

Nooo o...

They dont give time o

When they lend (credit) u with like say #1k which attracts an intrest of 10%, u‘ll only get an airtime of #900 instantly

They cut their intrest even b/f the fund gets to u

ikupakuti:


Nooo o...

They dont give time o

When they lend (credit) u with like say #1k which attracts an intrest of 10%, u‘ll only get an airtime of #900 instantly

They cut their interest even b/f the fund gets to u

This is nonsense and fraud. This should be avoided and it doesn't make sense. They simply want to make money off the credit.I dont think it makes sense for consumers to borrow airtime from them. You spend 900 in no time but still owe money. Better to save money than this. I repeat that people need to return to farming rather than shading nonsense like this..

Empiree:
This is nonsense and fraud. This should be avoided and it doesn't make sense. They simply want to make money off the credit.I dont think it makes sense for consumers to borrow airtime from them. You spend 900 in no time but still owe money. Better to save money than this. I repeat that people need to return to farming rather than shading nonsense like this..

Well, their fraudlent system endured cos... some ppl are foolish or forced atimes to borrow on such ridiculous terms

As received The Shariah Provision on "MMM" By Sheikh Jabir Sani Maihula

For sometime now, a lot of people have been asking me about MMM, germane to which a question was posed to me when I delivered a lecture in ABU Zaria.

My inbox has been flooded with questions about the 'business'. I either replied with "I don't know" or left the questions unattended to, because I had not made a detailed research as regards the scheme.

However, I have made my research and drawn up my juristic position (fatwa/edict) based on the sources I consulted, which are as follows:

I) The MMM website

II) Securities and Exchange Commission website (to see their view on the scheme)

III) Online videos and documentaries about MMM, a 45mins documentary introducing the scheme in Nigeria.

IV) Discussion with people who have participated in the scheme/business

As a result of this, I have arrived at the following juristic conclusions:

1. The "business" is impermissible (HARAM!). This is because it is a classic case of riba al fadl [adding to the value of an item when exchanging it for another of the same type]. Islam prohibits this. You can't give money to someone in need only to receive more in return.

2. The scheme is extremely dangerous since it's not protected by the law in Nigeria and a host of other countries. Securities and Exchange Commission have strongly warned Nigerians to desist from the scheme. In one of their published articles dated 30th August 2016, they said,

"The general public is hereby advised to distance themselves from this online scheme. Please note that anyone that subscribes to this illegal activity does so at his/her own risk".

This alone should suffice as deterrent to people who wish to indulge in the scheme.

3. The scheme is shrouded in gharar (ambiguity). The prophet (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) forbade ambiguous transactions as established in the tradition reported by Muslim.

Hence, any discerning person who studies the scheme would come to the conclusion that its end result will be loss.

Abridged and rendered into English by Abdurrahman Islam(Abu Jamaal)....

Copied...

Obas101:

You are wrong sir.. Its not by attracting ppl you get ur money. Tho enlighten ppl to join is needed cos it's a collective effort. Gambling is a game of chance, u win or u lose bt MMM always yield a 30% in investment made.

How can you claim that when the website itself says;

Please note that the use of the words 30% a month cannot be considered as a yield or interest rate since the funds were given away, we are not earning anything anywhere (we are a mutual-aid fund), and nobody promises or guarantees to pay it! Read over THE WARNING.

So if the site claims, the 30% is not a certainty, why should you? Mind you if its not a certainty, then its gambling.

lexiconkabir:


How can you claim that when the website itself says;



So if the site claims, the 30% is not a certainty, why should you? Mind you if its not a certainty, then its gambling.

Abeg i no get strength

Obas101:

Abeg i no get strength

The truth is, you've seen haqq(truth) its left for you to accept.


Salaam alaykum!

lexiconkabir:


How can you claim that when the website itself says;



So if the site claims, the 30% is not a certainty, why should you? Mind you if its not a certainty, then its gambling.

Bolded, actually this is how all businesses should be. Certainty or uncertainty is NOT evidence of riba. Business can fail.

BUSINESS IS, where I have money. You have money and we both invest the money to yield profit. If the business is successful, say for instance, 60% of investment is profited, we deduct our prinncipal investments and share whatever profit left. This is business. If the business fails, we both share the lost. This is business. Business is NOT guaranteed.



BUSINESS IS, you have money I don't have. I come to you to loan me money for investment. If the business yields profit i give you back the principal and the profit is mine. I do not pay you interest on your loan. This is business. But if the business fails, I have to find a way to pay you back the loan. Islam says you have to give me time and not charge me interest just bcus you have to wait for your money.


RIBA IS, you loan me money to do business but you put condition that you want 30% on your loan in return. Which means whether or not my business is successful I give you back your principal loan with 30% interest. Islam says this is Haram

Empiree:
Bolded, actually this is how all businesses should be. Certainty or uncertainty is NOT evidence of riba. Business can fail.

BUSINESS IS, where I have money. You have money and we both invest the money to yield profit. If the business is successful, say for instance, 60% of investment is profited, we deduct our prinncipal investments and share whatever profit left. This is business. If the business fails, we both share the lost. This is business. Business is NOT guaranteed.



BUSINESS IS, you have money I don't have. I come to you to loan me money for investment. If the business yields profit i give you back the principal and the profit is mine. I do not pay you interest on your loan. This is business. But if the business fails, I have to find a way to pay you back the loan. Islam says you have to give me time and not charge me interest just bcus you have to wait for your money.


RIBA IS, you loan me money to do business but you put condition that you want 30% on your loan in return. Which means whether or not my business is successful I give you back your principal loan with 30% interest. Islam says this is Haram

I didn't say, it is evidence for riba, have you read the analysis a shaykh from Ahmad bello university gave? I posted it.

lexiconkabir:


I didn't say, it is evidence for riba, have you read the analysis a shaykh from Ahmad bello university gave? I posted it.

Yes. Thats was nice piece. Besides, i was only responding "certainty" you mentioned actually. Maybe i misunderstood it.

Empiree:
Yes. Thats was nice piece. Besides, i was only responding "certainty" you mentioned actually. Maybe i misunderstood it.

You know, the definition of gambling in English is quite different from the sharee'ah, in the shareeah what is considered is the "gharar", when gharar is too gigantic, the transaction is seen as gambling. gambling is defined bi shareeah as a financial transaction where the individual brings forth a definite cost, he has the ability to gain or lose profit, and has virtually no control over the possible outcome, yani the gharar is too high. An example is taking a coin, and aiming it at a set of pots. If it enters certain pots it fetches you a prize, others will not, and none of the pots are marked. this is gambling in islam. another is if you pay me an amount of money for an unknown material and i only reveal the material when you pay me.

MMM works the same way, this person https://www.nairaland.com/3324051/how-current-mmm-likely-end#49000643 says, he used 500k and lost it, people put in money without having any control over the outcome, this is what i mean by UNCERTAINTY.

ashas50:
Well i am a Muslim, If mmm is an Harram, then fixing your money in a bank is also an Harram as well, becos mmm work in dat way. trully if u dont understand how mmm works, u might believe is not real or is an arram, unless u get the ideology of it.Mmm is seeing the 30% through crowd funding, Taye give Keny his money that is not ready to use at the moment, while keny use the money and wen taye need his money idowu give him and another person give idowu when he need it, etc

Fixing money in bank is also Haram, no doubt about that

quadrialhaji:

Fixing money in bank is also Haram, no doubt about that

You mean non-islamic banks.

lexiconkabir:


You know, the definition of gambling in English is quite different from the sharee'ah, in the shareeah what is considered is the "gharar", when gharar is too gigantic, the transaction is seen as gambling. gambling is defined bi shareeah as a financial transaction where the individual brings forth a definite cost, he has the ability to gain or lose profit, and has virtually no control over the possible outcome, yani the gharar is too high. An example is taking a coin, and aiming it at a set of pots. If it enters certain pots it fetches you a prize, others will not, and none of the pots are marked. this is gambling in islam. another is [size=19pt]if you pay me an amount of money for an unknown material and i only reveal the material when you pay me.[/size]

MMM works the same way, this person https://www.nairaland.com/3324051/how-current-mmm-likely-end#49000643 says, [size=19pt]he used 500k and lost it, people put in money without having any control over the outcome,[/size] this is what i mean by UNCERTAINTY.

Okay. So this is what MMM does. Obviously, this is awkward. I thought people only paid registration fees. Common sense really. I am never paying for what i dont see. This not just riba but scam/fraud too. I dont really know anything about MMM. People better get real job than this nonsense. The fellow could have invest 500k on farming or something else

Sounds like people going crazy over MMM thing. Who introduced it to Nigeria to begin with?

Empiree:
Sounds like people going crazy over MMM thing. Who introduced it to Nigeria to begin with?

Lol, saw a news where a husband beat his wife to coma because she used his money to invest on MMM without telling him.

lexiconkabir:


Lol, saw a news where a husband beat his wife to coma because she used his money to invest on MMM without telling him.

Chai, people think from their behind these days