In a thread I came across a post where friendchoice posted something that's totally untrue about the bible. And the aim of creating this thread STRICTLY between both of us is discuss over this issue and create a space for knowledge as concern people who wants to learn.

The below posts are the misconceptions he posted on which we will be discussing with any other topic he wishes to bring into this discussion.

FriendChoice:
Christians cannot ask pastor about this verse.






Roman 1:18-25



Even now they cannot say anything about the above verse.

Looking forward to enjoy this!

MORE ON HIS MISCONCEPTIONS
For the wrath of God l is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth For what can be Known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the CREATOR, who is blessed forever! Amen.

THE SECOND MISCONCEPTION

Jesus Peace Be Upon Him Is a Man and Servant of God “The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified HIS SERVANT Jesus" (Acts 3:13) " a man who has told you the truth’ (John 8:40) "Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know.’ (Acts 2:22) God is Spirit and Have No Flesh God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. (John 4:24 ) Does this leave the option that God as a spirit could also have a "body of flesh and bones?" Here is how Jesus defined a spirit: Jesus Peace Be Upon Him Have Bone And Flesh Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. (Luke 24:39 ) Christians Reply: Jesus is both fully human and divine. This is the reason why God gave Him a human mother, so that he could be connected with us in such a way that He could perform the perfect sacrifice for us. Bible says that God is Not Man "God is not a man’ (Numbers 23:19) ‘For I am God, and not man’ (Hosea 11:9) For those who will say, why are you quoting old testament. Mathew 5:16 New International Version "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. New Living Translation "Don't misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose.

From https://www.nairaland.com/3357318/agnosticism-islam

Please, friendchoice you can come in here. Thanks in advance. Don't fear, lol.

promise10:
Please, friendchoice you can come in here. Thanks in advance. Don't fear, lol.

Just to make myself present. Allow me to read what you write.

This is what I write.

[b]For the wrath of God l is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth For what can be Known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.

Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the CREATOR, who is blessed forever! Amen. [/b]

Roman 1:18-25



Even now they cannot say anything about the above verse.

[b] Jesus Peace Be Upon Him Is a Man and Servant of God

“The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified HIS SERVANT JESUS" (Acts 3:13)
" a man who has told you the truth’ (John 8:40)

"Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know.’ (Acts 2:22)

God is Spirit and Have No Flesh

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. (John 4:24 )

Does this leave the option that God as a spirit could also have a "body of flesh and bones?" Here is how Jesus defined a spirit:

Jesus Peace Be Upon Him Have Bone And Flesh

Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. (Luke 24:39 )

Christians Reply: Jesus is both fully human and divine. This is the reason why God gave Him a human mother, so that he could be connected with us in such a way that He could perform the perfect sacrifice for us.

Bible says that God is Not Man


"God is not a man’ (Numbers 23:19)
‘For I am God, and not man’ (Hosea 11:9)

For those who will say, why are you quoting old testament.

Mathew 5:16
New International Version
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

New Living Translation
"Don't misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose. [/b]

The rules before we start. We should be clear and precise. I don't want people with lies and deviation from the topic to come and spew trash. only others that can say something meaningful should contribute. Lets avoid insult. Please start defending those verses. don't mixed them up. From the first 2 the last in descending order.

Friendchoice, what is your opinion in rom 1:18-25 you quoted?

Rom 1:18-25;"18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven
against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of
men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is
manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto
them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the
creation of the world are clearly seen, being
understood by the things that are made, even
his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are
without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they
glorified him not as God, neither were thankful;
but became vain in their imaginations, and their
foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they
became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible
God into an image made like to corruptible man,
and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping
things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to
uncleanness through the lusts of their own
hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between
themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and
worshipped and served the creature more than
the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen."


I think we should be starting from the verse 18 to 25 one after the other.
To know your exact view on the above verses, I will like to question your view with the below questions.

Before, you quote romans, you should have known that it's written by apostle paul.

1. Who were the people paul was writing to?

2. What is your view on verse 18 of the verses you quoted?

3. What do you understand by holding the truth in righteousness?

FriendChoice:

Just to make myself present. Allow me to read what you write.

That's normal. Welcome.

FriendChoice:
The rules before we start. We should be clear and precise. I don't want people with lies and deviation from the topic to come and spew trash. only others that can say something meaningful should can contribute. Lets avoid insult. Please start defending those verses. don't mixed them up. From the first 2 the last in ascending order.

The rule here is that THIS THREAD IS STRICTLY FOR BOTH US ALONE.

NO THIRD PARTY IS ALLOWED.

Now, while refuting in the ascending order you asked for, I plead that you try to be logical and not arguing blindly.

promise10:
Friendchoice, what is your opinion in rom 1:18-25 you quoted?

Rom 1:18-25;"18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven
against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of
men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is
manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto
them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the
creation of the world are clearly seen, being
understood by the things that are made, even
his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are
without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they
glorified him not as God, neither were thankful;
but became vain in their imaginations, and their
foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they
became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible
God into an image made like to corruptible man,
and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping
things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to
uncleanness through the lusts of their own
hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between
themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and
worshipped and served the creature more than
the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen."


I think we should be starting from the verse 18 to 25 one after the other.
To know your exact view on the above verses, I will like to question your view with the below questions.

Before, you quote romans, you should have known that it's written by apostle paul.

1. Who were the people paul was writing to?

2. What is your view on verse 18 of the verses you quoted?

3. What do you understand by holding the truth in righteousness?

I don't expect you to ask me question in the first stage. You should defend yourself about the verse. When you defend yourself that this is what the verse is, that I misconcept as this, then you ask me question. My understanding of the verse is as it is written.


Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the CREATOR, who is blessed forever! Amen.

So explain to me the misconception about it first b4 I counter it.

promise10:

The rule here is that THIS THREAD IS STRICTLY FOR BOTH US ALONE.

NO THIRD PARTY IS ALLOWED.

Now, while refuting in the ascending order you asked for, I plead that you try to be logical and not arguing blindly.

Ok

Your last point is that the old testament laws were not abolished. But this is TOTALLY FALSE. And you went on to use matt 5:17-18 to prove this falsehood which doesn't make it look true to people who really know the truth.


MATT 5:17-18;
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law,
or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to
fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and
earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise
pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


In verse 17, Jesus was telling them that his mission is to not destroy the law and the prophets but to FULFIL. Don't conclude yet, until you know what he meant by the word FULFIL.

WATCH SMART IN VERSE 18!!

In verse 18, he said that nothing will be subtracted from the law or the prophets UNTIL ALL IS FULFILLED. In other words, at the point ALL(law and prophets) IS FULFILLED/ACCOMPLISHED. Then, the KEEPING OF THE LAW AND THe PROPHETS would be put to an end!

Now in the next reply I will explain what he meant by the word FULFILL. Because you cannot conclude on WHAT YOU THINK IT SHOULD MEAN.

promise10:
Your last point is that the old testament laws were not abolished. But this is TOTALLY FALSE. And you went on to use matt 5:17-18 to prove this falsehood which doesn't make it look true to people who really know the truth.


MATT 5:17-18;
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law,
or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to
fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and
earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise
pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


In verse 17, Jesus was telling them that his mission is to not destroy the law and the prophets but to FULFIL. Don't conclude yet, until you know what he meant by the word FULFIL.

WATCH SMART IN VERSE 18!!

In verse 18, he said that nothing will be subtracted from the law or the prophets UNTIL ALL IS FULFILLED. In other words, at the point ALL(law and prophets) IS FULFILLED/ACCOMPLISHED. Then, the KEEPING OF THE LAW AND THe PROPHETS would be put to an end!

Now in the next reply I will explain what he meant by the word FULFILL. Because you cannot conclude on WHAT YOU THINK IT SHOULD MEAN.

OK explain the word, but you should explain either as the way dictionary explain it or the way Bible does.

Bible Says the old testament must be followed.

"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)

since this is a discussion, i may be continuing tomorrow...... got SOME WORKS TO CARRY OUT TONIGHT. Please, bear with me.

FriendChoice:
Bible Says the old testament must be followed.

"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)

Please, let's argue like adults, where the hell did you see that we are to follow old testament, after I have explained what the verse you misunderstood is saying? Please, let's stay away from illogical arguments and SENTIMENT more especially.

If you can still turn blind to "UNTIL ALL IS FULFILLED" after I have explained every bit of those verses, doesn't that show you seem to be dishonest with those verses. What do you understand by the word "UNTIL"?

If you really want to understand the REAL premise of a statement, don't you think you have to understand every bit of the statement. What is your opinion on "UNTIL....."? Please let's keep dishonesty far from this thread.

I have told you that Jesus was saying that nothing will be removed, UNTIL ALL(law and prophet) which he has come for is ACCOMPLISHED. Which means, in it's LOGICAL sense; that AT THE POINT(until) ALL IS FULFILLED, the law and the prophets shall be put to a stop. Very simple to clearly understand.

And I am still to explain how he fulfilled it, which he CONFIRMED! Only if we can agree on what those verses are really saying.

The problem you have over that verse, is that you think that the first part favours you, only to look at the end of the statement and see how it crashes your view. ALL STATEMENT MUST BE INTERPRETED IN IT'S COMPLETE CONTEXT.

NO CHERRY PICKING IS ALLOWED HERE.

FriendChoice:
Bible Says the old testament must be followed.

"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)

Remember, this thread was pleaded to be LOGICAL.

So, as logic permits, we must have an agreed basis for this before I can go on to the next point, which is What, when and how was ALL FULFILLED. Otherwise, it will simply become illogical.

So, do you agree that jesus was saying that AT THE POINT IN TIME that all(law and prophets) is fulfilled, then the law and the prophets can be put to a stop?


If no, then bring up your argument that REASONS ALL PART of that statement without twisting it's content.

promise10:

Please, let's argue like adults, where the hell did you see that we are to follow old testament, after I have explained what the verse you misunderstood is saying? Please, let's stay away from illogical arguments and SENTIMENT more especially.

If you can still turn blind to "UNTIL ALL IS FULFILLED" after I have explained every bit of those verses, doesn't that show you seem to be dishonest with those verses. What do you understand by the word "UNTIL"?

If you really want to understand the REAL premise of a statement, don't you think you have to understand every bit of the statement. What is your opinion on "UNTIL....."? Please let's keep dishonesty far from this thread.

I have told you that Jesus was saying that nothing will be removed, UNTIL ALL(law and prophet) which he has come for is ACCOMPLISHED. Which means, in it's LOGICAL sense; that AT THE POINT(until) ALL IS FULFILLED, the law and the prophets shall be put to a stop. Very simple to clearly understand.

And I am still to explain how he fulfilled it, which he CONFIRMED! Only if we can agree on what those verses are really saying.

The problem you have over that verse, is that you think that the first part favours you, only to look at the end of the statement and see how it crashes your view. ALL STATEMENT MUST BE INTERPRETED IN IT'S COMPLETE CONTEXT.

NO CHERRY PICKING IS ALLOWED HERE.

You don't need to boil, take it easy, this is simple

Until = till the time.

The Bible says until the heaven and earth disappear, meaning until the day of judgment. Today we are still present in this world. Not a smallest letter will by any means disappear until all have been accomplished. The Bible clearly tell us the time which the law will be accomplished.

"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish
the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to
abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any
means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)

Ist in New or Old testament you're asked 2 go to church.

FriendChoice:

You don't need to boil, take it easy, this is simple

Until = till the time.

The Bible says until the heaven and earth disappear, meaning until the day of judgment. Today we are still present in this world. Not a smallest letter will by any means disappear until all have been accomplished. The Bible clearly tell us the time which the law will be accomplished.

"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish
the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to
abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any
means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)

Ist in New or Old testament you're asked 2 go to church.

This is an absolute falsehood. I am not boiling. I am trying to make you understand the WHOLE statement and you are just capitalising on what makes you feel fine. Is that not DISHONESTY??

You cannot just open up a bible verse you know nothing, and trying to give it a meaning on the basis of WHAT YOU THINK IT MUST MEAN. Doesn't that look crazy?

We don't read our bible that way, WE ALLOW IT TO SPEAK ALONE.

Simply put, what I have been saying; Jesus meant that the law and the prophets will last forever,

When it will be fulfilled is NOT judgement day!! I WONDER WHERE YOU GOT THAT FROM!

Because, it has ALREADY been fulfilled and Jesus in the bible CONFIRMED that!

Matt 5:17-18;"17 Do not think that I came to do away with or undo the Law [of Moses] or the [writings of the] Prophets; I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
18 For I assure you and most solemnly say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke [of the pen] will pass from the Law UNTIL ALL THINGS[which it foreshadows] ARE ACCOMPLISHED."

I have explained this before, but you keep turning BLIND to the later part of that statement. You may wish the last part of that statement was never said, but there is nothing you can do about it.

When Jesus said "until heaven and earth pass away", he was not talking about judgment day. That phrase is a METAPHOR. Jesus used metaphors like this in MANY OF HIS TEACHINGS. He used it to show that the law and the prophets are meant to last forever.

Jesus was saying, in a short form, that the LAW and the PROPHETS are to last forever UNTIL the time ALL THING the Laws and the prophets FORESHADOWS IS ACCOMPLISHED. Which means that at the moment ALL that the law and the prophets foreshadows is ACCOMPLISHED, then the law and prophets shall be put to a stop. I don't know why you are having a hard time with this. You only need a biased mind to throw the later part of that statement and get your hands dirty with cherry picking.

See the below verse that shows that ALL that the law and prophet foreshadows HAVE BEEN FULFILLED and as such puts the law and prophets to a stop.

John 19:28;"After this Jesus, KNOWiNG ALL THINGS WERE NOW FULFILLED, that the Scripture(law and prophets) might be fulfilled, said, “I thirst.”"

The below verse shows where Jesus CONFIRMED IT!

Luke 24:44; "And He said unto them, “These are the
words which I spoke unto you while I was yet with you, that ALL THINGS MUST BE FULFILLED which were written in the LAW OF MOSES and the PROPHETS and in the Psalms concerning Me.”

In the above verse Jesus was telling them, that these things that has happened were what he told them while he was yet with them(before his death). And what did he tell them? That ALL THINGS MUST BE FULFILLED which were written in the LAW OF MOSES and the PROPHETS and in the Psalms concerning Me.

There are even more verses testifying to the abolishment of the law.

More verses on abolishment of the law.

Rom 10:3;"FOR CHRIST IS THE END OF THE LAW [it leads to Him and IT'S PURPOSE IS FULFILLED in Him], for [granting] righteousness to everyone who believes [in Him as Savior]."



Eph 2:15;"Having ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, THE LAW OF COMMANDMENT contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;"

Col 2:14;"BLOTTING OUT the handwriting of
LAWS that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, NAILING(abolishing) it to his cross;"

promise10:


This is an absolute falsehood. I am not boiling. I am trying to make you understand the WHOLE statement and you are just capitalising on what makes you feel fine. Is that not DISHONESTY??

You cannot just open up a bible verse you know nothing, and trying to give it a meaning on the basis of WHAT YOU THINK IT MUST MEAN. Doesn't that look crazy?

We don't read our bible that way, WE ALLOW IT TO SPEAK ALONE.

Simply put, what I have been saying; Jesus meant that the law and the prophets will last forever,

When it will be fulfilled is NOT judgement day!! I WONDER WHERE YOU GOT THAT FROM!

Because, it has ALREADY been fulfilled and Jesus in the bible CONFIRMED that!

Matt 5:17-18;"17 Do not think that I came to do away with or undo the Law [of Moses] or the [writings of the] Prophets; I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
18 For I assure you and most solemnly say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke [of the pen] will pass from the Law UNTIL ALL THINGS[which it foreshadows] ARE ACCOMPLISHED."

I have explained this before, but you keep turning BLIND to the later part of that statement. You may wish the last part of that statement was never said, but there is nothing you can do about it.

When Jesus said "until heaven and earth pass away", he was not talking about judgment day. That phrase is a METAPHOR. Jesus used metaphors like this in MANY OF HIS TEACHINGS. He used it to show that the law and the prophets are meant to last forever.

Jesus was saying, in a short form, that the LAW and the PROPHETS are to last forever UNTIL the time ALL THING the Laws and the prophets FORESHADOWS IS ACCOMPLISHED. Which means that at the moment ALL that the law and the prophets foreshadows is ACCOMPLISHED, then the law and prophets shall be put to a stop. I don't know why you are having a hard time with this. You only need a biased mind to throw the later part of that statement and get your hands dirty with cherry picking.

See the below verse that shows that ALL that the law and prophet foreshadows HAVE BEEN FULFILLED and as such puts the law and prophets to a stop.

John 19:28;"After this Jesus, KNOWiNG ALL THINGS WERE NOW FULFILLED, that the Scripture(law and prophets) might be fulfilled, said, “I thirst.”"

The below verse shows where Jesus CONFIRMED IT!

Luke 24:44; "And He said unto them, “These are the
words which I spoke unto you while I was yet with you, that ALL THINGS MUST BE FULFILLED which were written in the LAW OF MOSES and the PROPHETS and in the Psalms concerning Me.”

In the above verse Jesus was telling them, that these things that has happened were what he told them while he was yet with them(before his death). And what did he tell them? That ALL THINGS MUST BE FULFILLED which were written in the LAW OF MOSES and the PROPHETS and in the Psalms concerning Me.

There are even more verses testifying to the abolishment of the law.

I could not see where they are abolish sir. The second verse made it clear it's what he told them while he is alive that all things must be fulfilled.. He did day all things must be fulfilled only If i am alive, and when I passed away it should be abolished.

Many Christian including one here on Nairaland understand what Jesus means as the law was not abolished, rather is should be accomplished. But your understanding seems 2 be different. You want me by all means to agree with you on this while am not convinced. There are many verses that shows that the old testament is used up till today.


“You have heard that IT WAS SAID TO THE PEOPLE LONG AGO, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ Mathew 5:21

Exodus 20:13 “You shall not murder.

Accomplishments or Abolishment


“It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’ But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery. Matthew 5:31-32

If a man marries a woman who becomes displeasing to him because he finds something indecent about her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, Deut. 24:1

Accomplishments or Abolishment


Going to church on Saturday or Sunday where ist found You're yet to answer this question, I ask you b4.

You are probably still messing things up, and on top of that still asking another question to derail this topic.

I mean that the KEEPING OF THE LAW AND PROPHET WAS ABOLISHED ON THE VERY DAY THEY WERE FULFILLED, the day jesus died at the cross, which I showed in in john 19:28.

Because jesus said that UNTIL THE TIME, ALL that the law and prophets foreshadows IS FULFILLED, then nothing will happen to the law. In other words, at the moment ALL IS FULFILLED, then the law can be abolished. APPLY LOGICAL REASONING HERE!

And in john 19:28; I showed you where it was written that ALL HAS BEEN FULFILLED. And where jesus confirmed it again in LUKE 24:44 where I posted.

And I told you that since ALL HAS BEEN FULFILLED, as jesus said, that the KEEPING OF THE LAW HAs BEEN ENDED. Which I showed you in ROMAN 10:4, EPHESiANS 2:15 and COLOSSIANS 2:14.

promise10:
You are probably still messing things up, and on top of that still asking another question to derail this topic.

I mean that the KEEPING OF THE LAW AND PROPHET WAS ABOLISHED ON THE VERY DAY THEY WERE FULFILLED, the day jesus died at the cross, which I showed in in john 19:28.

Because jesus said that UNTIL THE TIME, ALL that the law and prophets foreshadows IS FULFILLED, then nothing will happen to the law. In other words, at the moment ALL IS FULFILLED, then the law can be abolished. APPLY LOGICAL REASONING HERE!

And in john 19:28; I showed you where it was written that ALL HAS BEEN FULFILLED. And where jesus confirmed it again in LUKE 24:44 where I posted.

And I told you that since ALL HAS BEEN FULFILLED, as jesus said, that the KEEPING OF THE LAW HAs BEEN ENDED. Which I showed you in ROMAN 10:4, EPHESiANS 2:15 and COLOSSIANS 2:14.

Dont be taking us back, that law was nowhere abolished, that's why you Christian are divided in two, some agree in old testament, some don't. We are talking of the law abolished or not. I cited verses from old testament that are in new, that are accomplished not abolished...

You're only trying to justify what church tells you Jesus die on cross, from then the law abolish not what Bible says. Even that he died on cross is wrong. But that is not our discussion, it should be letter.

Am not asking different question. The verse Christian use. to justify Going to church on Sabbath day is located where, new or old testament. Its in old testament. Why do you follow the old testament here Despite being abolished. isn't that illogical to you, something abolished and still being use. rethink.

By the way there are many questions in my post that you call misconception, move to the next one.

Do you know what you are doing? It is just like going to your koran, picking a verse, giving it a meaning I WANT IT to have and telling you muslims that the meaning I gave it is WHAT IT SHOULD BE. Do you know what scenarios like this is called? A TOTAL DELUSION AND MADNESS!

It will really be shameful if this is your motive, because YOUR view or that of anybody DOES NOT define the bible, but the bible DEFINES itself.

You are a muslim, who just came across a verse YOU KNOW NOTHING about, only to give it a meaning you WANT IT to have and telling me what my bible should mean. Bro, if you are aware of this, then it is a total madness. Not an insult please!

If the law is not abolished, then it is DEFINITELY NOT the bible you read!

Let me do more shame your view on the abolishment of the law!

Rom 10:3;"FOR CHRIST IS THE END OF THE LAW [it
leads to Him and IT'S PURPOSE IS FULFILLED in
Him], for [granting] righteousness to everyone who
believes [in Him as Savior]."

What does it mean that christ ENDED the law? Bro, think with your senses!

Eph 2:15;"Having ABOLISHED in his flesh the
enmity, THE LAW OF COMMANDMENT contained in
ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new
man, so making peace;"

The capitalised word "ABOLISHED" means what?
In the verse above, what did you see that was abolished?
If it is not the capitalise "LAW OF COMMANDMENT", then it is? Bro make use of your senses!!

Col 2:14;"BLOTTING OUT the handwriting of
LAWS that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, NAILING(abolishing) it to his cross;"

In the above verse what is the meaning of the word "BLOTTING OUT"? Is it not the LAW that was blotted out? Is it
not the law that was nailed at the cross? Then what else? Bro, I repeat, make use of your sense because people are reading this thread and of course I know how your view sounds to them, so foolish(no insult intended).


This guy you are simply ignorant of the verses you quoted!!! What do you really understand by abolishment of the law??

WHAT BUSINESS does the bible have with people who misunderstand it? Bro, christianity is not like islam where people are advised to live there lives on the basis of what leaders says. But on what the bible says!

So when we are talking about this, it is BASELESS and NONSENSICAL to refer to a third party self acclaimed christians, because it is SO ABSURD in christianity and what they say, think or preach HOLD NO INTERIGTY when examined with the content of the bible.

The verses you quote, DOES NOT SHOW THE ACCOMPLISHMENT! I WONDER WHERE YOU GOT THAT KIND OF UNDERSTANDING FROM, BECAUSE IT DEFINITELY NOT THE BIBLE!!!

I showed you where the bible CONFIRMED the accomplishment. Yet, you are still playing ignorant and dishonest card here.

[s]

promise10:
Do you know what you are doing? It is just like going to your koran, picking a verse, giving it a meaning I WANT IT to have and telling you muslims that the meaning I gave it is WHAT IT SHOULD BE. Do you know what scenarios like this is called? A TOTAL DELUSION AND MADNESS!

It will really be shameful if this is your motive, because YOUR view or that of anybody DOES NOT define the bible, but the bible DEFINES itself.

You are a muslim, who just came across a verse YOU KNOW NOTHING about, only to give it a meaning you WANT IT to have and telling me what my bible should mean. Bro, if you are aware of this, then it is a total madness. Not an insult please!

If the law is not abolished, then it is DEFINITELY NOT the bible you read!

Let me do more shame your view on the abolishment of the law!

Rom 10:3;"FOR CHRIST IS THE END OF THE LAW [it
leads to Him and IT'S PURPOSE IS FULFILLED in
Him], for [granting] righteousness to everyone who
believes [in Him as Savior]."

What does it mean that christ ENDED the law? Bro, think with your senses!

Eph 2:15;"Having ABOLISHED in his flesh the
enmity, THE LAW OF COMMANDMENT contained in
ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new
man, so making peace;"

The capitalised word "ABOLISHED" means what?
In the verse above, what did you see that was abolished?
If it is not the capitalise "LAW OF COMMANDMENT", then it is? Bro make use of your senses!!

Col 2:14;"BLOTTING OUT the handwriting of
LAWS that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, NAILING(abolishing) it to his cross;"

In the above verse what is the meaning of the word "BLOTTING OUT"? Is it not the LAW that was blotted out? Is it
not the law that was nailed at the cross? Then what else? Bro, I repeat, make use of your sense because people are reading this thread and of course I know how your view sounds to them, so foolish(no insult intended).


This guy you are simply ignorant of the verses you quoted!!! What do you really understand by abolishment of the law??

WHAT BUSINESS does the bible have with people who misunderstand it? Bro, christianity is not like islam where people are advised to live there lives on the basis of what leaders says. But on what the bible says!

So when we are talking about this, it is BASELESS and NONSENSICAL to refer to a third party self acclaimed christians, because it is SO ABSURD in christianity and what they say, think or preach HOLD NO INTERIGTY when examined with the content of the bible.

The verses you quote, DOES NOT SHOW THE ACCOMPLISHMENT! I WONDER WHERE YOU GOT THAT KIND OF UNDERSTANDING FROM, BECAUSE IT DEFINITELY NOT THE BIBLE!!!

I showed you where the bible CONFIRMED the accomplishment. Yet, you are still playing ignorant and dishonest card here.

[/s]

It's not necessary you must believe in what I said, the Bible is clear and the verses I quote are clear too. That law were nowhere abolished in the Bible, rather they are accomplished. Do you think I border about people who watch us. The truth is clear from falsehood. It's left 4 s person to accept it or Not. I show you verses that are accomplished from old testament in new. I am not saying you must believe. Understand I have made my point.


You still ignore the question on ground. The verse Christian used in claiming to go 2 Church on Sabbath day is in new or old testament. Ist in the so called abolish law or in the new testament. Pls don't skip this.

If it's in new testament bring it, then we move. If old testament then there is big hypocrisy.

Answer it then we move to next question. Since we have many questions after this, lets not stick to this, since you made your point and I made mine. And we have agree to disagree in it.

FriendChoice:
[s][/s]

It's not necessary you must believe in what I said, the Bible is clear and the verses I quote are clear too. That law were nowhere abolished in the Bible, rather they are accomplished. Do you think I border about people who watch us. The truth is clear from falsehood. It's left 4 s person to accept it or Not. I show you verses that are accomplished from old testament in new. I am not saying you must believe. Understand I have made my point.


You still ignore the question on ground. The verse Christian used in claiming to go 2 Church on Sabbath day is in new or old testament. Ist in the so called abolish law or in the new testament. Pls don't skip this.

If it's in new testament bring it, then we move. If old testament then there is big hypocrisy.

Answer it then we move to next question. Since we have many questions after this, lets not stick to this, since you made your point and I made mine. And we have agree to disagree in it.

i can feel your pain and how pained you are in this delusion, but there is nothing we can do about it! You only have to expose it by STRIKING THROUGH MY POST, if that's not enough, you can JUMP OUT OF THE THREAD, it's better off than arguing blindly.

Your ignorance is still shooting you!

in the old testament, sabbath is SATURDAY(the day of rest). Under the law, observing the sabbath day is A LAW one must keep to be right with God. now that the law has been abolished. SABBATH IS NO MORE TO BE KEPT! That's why we go to church on sunday.

Because the law has been fulfilled, this is what he bible says of been judged of not observing the sabath day.
col 2:16;Therefore let no one judge you in regard to food and drink or in regard to [the observance of] a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day.

we are free from observing the sabbath day!

In the NT, worshipping God is NOT ABOUT the day! That's why the early christians agreed together to have fellowship on sunday because of UNITY.

So, i think that you should know by now, that christians no more keep the sabbath day.

get pained and strike through again!

[s]

promise10:

i can feel your pain and how pained you are in this delusion, but there is nothing we can do about it! You only have to expose it by STRIKING THROUGH MY POST, if that's not enough, you can JUMP OUT OF THE THREAD, it's better off than arguing blindly.

Your ignorance is still shooting you!

in the old testament, sabbath is SATURDAY(the day of rest). Under the law, observing the sabbath day is A LAW one must keep to be right with God. now that the law has been abolished. SABBATH IS NO MORE TO BE KEPT! That's why we go to church on sunday.

Because the law has been fulfilled, this is what he bible says of been judged of not observing the sabath day.
col 2:16;Therefore let no one judge you in regard to food and drink or in regard to [the observance of] a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day.

In the NT, worshipping God is NOT ABOUT the day! That's why the early christians agreed together to have fellowship on sunday because of UNITY.

So, i think that you should know by now, that christians no more keep the sabbath day.

get pained and strike through again!

[/s]


I don't have time to argue when everything is clear.

Christian believe that Sabbath day should be Sunday and Jews Saturday, that is why you go 2 Church on Sunday. Otherwise then you go 2 Church on Sunday without Jesus/Bible commandments.

That means as a Christian I can choose not 2 go to church on Sundays and decided to fix Monday. Clearly you cannot answer that question,

SECONDLY you could not answer the on abolishment of the law. No verse has abolished the law.



“You have heard that IT WAS SAID TO THE PEOPLE LONG AGO, ‘ You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ Mathew 5:21

Exodus 20:13 “You shall not murder.

Accomplishments or Abolishment

>
“It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’ But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery. Matthew 5:31-32

If a man marries a woman who becomes displeasing to him because he finds something indecent about her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, Deut. 24:1

Accomplishments or Abolishment


3rdly. You jump the first verse that I wrote. For the wrath of God... You start explaining, and you stop.

That means all the allegations above are reals and are not misconceptions.


Answer the next question on the list you called misconceptions.

FriendChoice:
[s][/s]


I don't have time to argue when everything is clear.

Christian believe that Sabbath day should be Sunday and Jews Saturday, that is why you go 2 Church on Sunday. Otherwise then you go 2 Church on Sunday without Jesus/Bible commandments.

That means as a Christian I can choose not 2 go to church on Sundays and decided to fix Monday. Clearly you cannot answer that question,

SECONDLY you could not answer the on abolishment of the law. No verse has abolished the law.



“You have heard that IT WAS SAID TO THE PEOPLE LONG AGO, ‘ You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ Mathew 5:21

Exodus 20:13 “You shall not murder.

Accomplishments or Abolishment

>
“It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’ But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery. Matthew 5:31-32

If a man marries a woman who becomes displeasing to him because he finds something indecent about her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, Deut. 24:1

Accomplishments or Abolishment


3rdly. You jump the first verse that I wrote. For the wrath of God... You start explaining, and you stop.

That means all the allegations above are reals and are not misconceptions.


Answer the next question on the list you called misconceptions.

I consider it an insult to not argue step by step. There is no way we can leave your first misconception and go to the next one!

I have my respect and integrity, and I have tried my best to hold it up in each of my one-on-one discussion/debate both on NL and outside here. just know it.

I consider it an insult to my respect and integrity to go on in this discussion, since you are driving to a disgraceful direction and out of discussion.

how deluded are you to talk about something you absolute know nothing about, give it the meaning you want it have and telling we, the Christians what we should believe? This is so sickening, crazy, deranged and absolutely out of mind.

I was expecting to have a good discussion on the misconceptions you brought up, but you are not giving any room for that, hence striking my posts out of anger, and arguing blindly.

FriendChoice:
[s][/s]




SECONDLY you could not answer the on abolishment of the law. No verse has abolished the law.

This is the main reason why i consider any further argument an insult to my respect.

I have refuted this enough, only to post the lie i quoted up there, just because your religion permits lie.

In the below, i rest my case!

Rom 10:3;"FOR CHRIST IS THE END OF THE LAW [it leads to Him and IT'S PURPOSE IS FULFILLED in Him], for [granting] righteousness to everyone who believes [in Him as Savior]."

What does it mean that christ ENDED the law?

Eph 2:15;"Having ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, THE LAW OF COMMANDMENT contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;"

The capitalised word "ABOLISHED" means what?
In the verse above, what did you see that was abolished?
If it is not the capitalised "LAW OF COMMANDMENT", then it is?

Col 2:14;"BLOTTING OUT the handwriting of
LAWS that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, NAILING(abolishing) it to his cross;"

In the above verse what is the meaning of the word "BLOTTING OUT"? Is it not the LAW that was blotted out? Is it
not the law that was nailed at the cross? Then what else?

promise10:

I consider it an insult to not argue step by step. There is no way we can leave your first misconception and go to the next one!

I have my respect and integrity, and I have tried my best to hold it up in each of my one-on-one discussion/debate both on NL and outside here. just know it.

I consider it an insult to my respect and integrity to go on in this discussion, since you are driving to a disgraceful direction and out of discussion.

how deluded are you to talk about something you absolute know nothing about, give it the meaning you want it have and telling we, the Christians what we should believe? This is so sickening, crazy, deranged and absolutely out of mind.

I was expecting to have a good discussion on the misconceptions you brought up, but you are not giving any room for that, hence striking my posts out of anger, and arguing blindly.

You couldn't clarify the first 1, simple because it's not misconception. I let it go. Since you believe what you said it right. People are watching. Move to. next question and clarify it also. If striking the reply makes you upset, I wount do it again. Carry on with the remaining.

You forget when you jump the first verse without explaining it, you start by asking questions. I ask you to explain but u did not, you left the question and move to the bottom and pic another 1. Wasn't that an insult to you.

And if you could not answer the remaining, let me know.

promise10:


This is the main reason why i consider any further argument an insult to my respect.

I have refuted this enough, only to post the lie i quoted up there, just because your religion permits lie.

In the below, i rest my case!

This are the lies you're taking about.


“You have heard that IT WAS SAID TO THE PEOPLE LONG AGO, ‘ You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ Mathew 5:21

Exodus 20:13 “You shall not murder.

Accomplishments or Abolishment

>
“It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’ But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery. Matthew 5:31-32

If a man marries a woman who becomes displeasing to him because he finds something indecent about her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, Deut. 24:1

Accomplishments or Abolishment

FriendChoice:


This are the lies you're taking about.


“You have heard that IT WAS SAID TO THE PEOPLE LONG AGO, ‘ You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ Mathew 5:21

Exodus 20:13 “You shall not murder.

Accomplishments or Abolishment

>
“It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’ But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery. Matthew 5:31-32

If a man marries a woman who becomes displeasing to him because he finds something indecent about her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, Deut. 24:1

Accomplishments or Abolishment

I have told you that Jesus reciting something from old testament the DOES NOT show any fulfillment. How does Jesus citing the law in old testament means accomplishment or abolishment? You don't even know anything about the fulfilment! And trying to give it another meaning that is not biblical.

I have given you the proof where Jesus confirmed that ALL has been accomplished after the resurrection. Yet, you still overrule it with dishonesty, and telling me what my bible SHOULD MEAN. Bro, is this not delusion?

This is why I consider it an insult to argie further. If you want to have an intelligent discussion with someone, why not argue intelligently? And now at the end of the day, you are now striking my posts, thinking that I will be okay to continue in this mess.