hopefulLandlord:


the example can be changed to many other things and would still stay the same

health and well-being for instance, I would just abandon my present health if I'm sure to be at optimal health in 20 year's time no matter what


to the heavenly treasures, its obvious its not helping us as a nation

most people are concentrated so much on that heavenly treasures that they've abandoned earthly ones to wishful thinking


why would I make this world a better place with so much effort if all it takes for me to get the heavenly one is simply to believe a Jew that died in a small Israeli village died for my sins and loves me OR the Islamic version?

its obvious we want the path of least resistance, we want excess results with little efforts

making the world a better place is much more difficult, its impossible for everyone on earth to have their mansions anyways, so we simply cling on to the infinite mansions in heaven


there's a saying in Yoruba which I heard in a movie

"when a child sees honey, he simply gets rid of the bean cake" (I don't know if I translated it properly, Yoruba people can help)


it simply translates to the fact that he got rid of something that is good (Beancake) for something much more sweeter (Honey)

that actually captures the average Abrahamic religion adherents

we have become a country whose populace depend on wishful thinking, "god will do it" "only god can save us" "god will punish our leaders", and are psychologically unmotivated to be the change we seek. We are still incapable of providing ourselves with basic infrastructure for ourselves.

kilo4sure:

Why would l abandon my present health if l'm sure to be healthy in 20 years time? I don't get you. Anyway, what more can l say? just wanted to correct the impression that the bible promises mansions in heaven simply as a means to escape the world, there are great works to be done in order to attain such mansions. Go find out what those works are.

hopefulLandlord:


maybe the bible didn't say that which is your own interpretation of it

but simply listen to early morning preachers

"where would you spend your eternity"

"vanity upon vanities"

"hell and heaven is real"

"come to Jesus today"

"there would be no sickness in heaven"

"no wars"

"eternal happiness and bliss"

kilo4sure:

The bible didn't say that? Really? What then is...
I was hungry and you fed me, had no clothes but you clothed me..Those that teach others to do but do not do shall be the least in the kingdom of heaven...fight the good fight of faith etc. And more...Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us.
Tell me, what is that race that is set before us?

hopefulLandlord:


it seems we are still saying the same thing and I like the fact that this discussion is very mature, no name calling or aggressiveness

Christianity itself needs to be united first, let us know which is right and wrong form of it because there's lots of confusion already amongst them and they all say they're the right one; they also claim to talk to the holy spirit and are directed by it which makes no sense

when you eventually unite (which is close to impossible) or at least have some semblance of unity, then maybe just maybe some of us might join you


but lest we lose track of the primary discussion (we digressed a lot) we need to separate religion from governance and politics

those developed countries have done that but still finds nothing wrong in you practicing your religion, so long it doesn't conflict with the society

look at USA, they legalised "Sodomy" and became "Sodom and Gomorrah" in the bible but our fellow Nigerian Christians would give testimony when they get visa to live in "Sodom"

truth is that they allowed religion to have its place and gave it the middle finger when it hinders what they term as social well-being

religion has its good use and I'll be idiotic to say otherwise but has to be reigned or it gets out of control like we have in Nigeria

hopefulLandlord:


hmmm

I agree to a large extent with the above

but we have to see that there's a verse being "misinterpreted" according to you but "well interpreted" according to someone else, this is further buttressed by so many denominations of Christianity, each claiming their own interpretation is right

who therefore is actually right?

who is interpreting "vanity upon vanities" the right way?

promise of heaven simply makes many Nigerians lazy about the here and now, that's simply a fact

seriously speaking, if I'm sure that I'll hit £1B lottery in 20 year's time, how do you think I'll put efforts in the here and now? I'll probably just do enough to survive till then, not try to better my life in the now financially since there would be no such thing as financial handicap in my life in 2 decades time,

would you see me saving? building houses? etc

why would I do that when there's a £1B waiting for me in 20 years time?


that is how the concept of afterlife affects the now of the average Nigerian Abrahamic god adherents; just talk to them for a few minutes and they'll quickly spill it to you indirectly

raphieMontella:

i'm yet to understand what oyedepo is using 4 private jets for..
Sight seeing in heaven?

hopefulLandlord:


it seems we are still saying the same thing and I like the fact that this discussion is very mature, no name calling or aggressiveness

Christianity itself needs to be united first, let us know which is right and wrong form of it because there's lots of confusion already amongst them and they all say they're the right one; they also claim to talk to the holy spirit and are directed by it which makes no sense

when you eventually unite (which is close to impossible) or at least have some semblance of unity, then maybe just maybe some of us might join you


but lest we lose track of the primary discussion (we digressed a lot) we need to separate religion from governance and politics

those developed countries have done that but still finds nothing wrong in you practicing your religion, so long it doesn't conflict with the society

look at USA, they legalised "Sodomy" and became "Sodom and Gomorrah" in the bible but our fellow Nigerian Christians would give testimony when they get visa to live in "Sodom"

truth is that they allowed religion to have its place and gave it the middle finger when it hinders what they term as social well-being

religion has its good use and I'll be idiotic to say otherwise but has to be reigned or it gets out of control like we have in Nigeria

Ranchhoddas:
The same mischievous tactic of blaming religion for all our woes as a nation. The procedure for nation-building is totally independent of religion. Our ''over-religiousity'' if anything is a product of bad governance and not vice-versa.

4kings:
To spread the Goodnews

Shollyps:
I no fit cope again with unending argument everyday.. I don become a gentle atheist....minding my own business... na radical atheist like you,Hahn,Johny god go punish pass. your own hell fire will be hotter...

raphieMontella:

the poorer countries tend to be more religious.

Ranchhoddas:
Yes. Their religiousity is as a result of their poverty. A good healthcare system will make citizens less likely to pray for healing, a working economy would make them less likely to pray for visa abroad, jobs, contracts etc. An efficient educational system would make students less likely to pray for good grades. Comprende?

kilo4sure:

Lol which one be new theist again, l never hear that one before o.

ValentineMary:

God of reason would bless us for saving people from ignorance.

raphieMontella:

we said the same thing o..i just ''broaded it''..
A country can be poor not only from bad governance.....but other stuffs...

plaetton:
^ ^
Going back to my reference to the international Space Station(ISS), I have another story worth telling.

Sometime ago this year, I visited very good old friend's house.
Being the kindred spirit that I am, his two young kids took to me instantly. I was happy with their energy and curiosity. They bombarded with questions one after the other about science and nature.
We eventually got around to the International Space Station. They had never heard of it before. I took the cue to tell them all about, showed them the amazing pictures with smartphone. In fact, I went a step further by showing them a live feed from the ISS on a smartphone app.
The excitements on their faces was simply priceless.

Then the father walked in, they ran to him to show him what they just discovered.

Guess what he did ?

He scoffed, scolded and told them to stop that nonsense.

I was shocked, but not too shocked.
He is a Jehovah's Witness.

Just Imagine the healthy curiosity of millions of Nigerian children, Nigeria's future, shot down and relegated every single day by middle East stone bullshytes.

WORLDPEACE:

Your story is incomplete. Why did he scoff? Why did he scold them?

plaetton:

Most religious people, Abrahamic religions, think that scientific curiosity and exploration, robs their God of his mystery and majesty.
The more we demystify the universe, the less the need for superstitions and myths to fill in the gaps.

Therefore, my friend's reaction was just probably a programmed knee-jerk reaction.

I see that type of reaction all the time.

WORLDPEACE:

You cannot make assumptions for your friend. That black and white view of the world that leaves no other shades is harmful to everyone and you are guilty of it. Unless your friend already knows that you are an atheist who is eager to share his unbelief with children, he shouldn't act that way. I know Jehovah's witnesses because I used to be one. They regard science as a tool to proof the existence of God rather than as something to fear. You should next time try to find out why he acted the way he did.

plaetton:


It wasn't my business to probe him. We are tight friends for a long time because we keep religion out of our friendship.
My discussions with the children had absolutely nothing to do with religion, but on the innocent curiosity of children.
If my atheistic worldview was a factor in his reaction, then it still dovetails with my point that religious beliefs tend to snuff out scientifically curiosity.