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How Do You Authenticate God? - Religion - Nairaland

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How Do You Authenticate God? by Nobody: 7:10pm On Nov 18, 2016
Christians claim that Lucifer was once God's most fabulous and beloved creation, the Angel of Light so dazzling that he almost outshone God (and indeed did in his own eyes). If Lucifer seemed like God to himself and to many other angels who followed him (one third of the heavenly host!), how could a human being know whether or not Lucifer was God if he encountered him and Lucifer declared himself God?

To state it clearly, how does a believer know he has encountered the True God and not someone else who is godlike but not God? What criteria does he use to authenticate God's identity?

Abraham heard a voice in his head ordering him to murder his son. So, how did Abraham know it was the True God giving him commands and not the Falsus Deus (the False God)? - well, apart from the self-evident truth that God would never order anyone (innocent) to be killed, which, unfortunately, was not a criterion Abraham chose to accept.

In the Islamic "Satanic Verses" controversy, Satan, in the guise of the Angel Gabriel, was alleged to have appeared to Mohammed in one of his visions and to have dictated evil verses to him which were then put into the Koran, the alleged perfect Word of God. When it was realized that they were not consistent with the rest of the Koran (because they promoted tolerance of paganism and hinted that Allah was not the sole God but rather only the senior God), they were removed and Mohammed excused his error by saying that Satan was responsible. This tale is strongly denied by Muslims (because it would destroy Islam if there were any doubts about the true authorship of the Koran) but it makes perfect sense that in the early years of Islam, when Mohammed was making no headway with the pagans, and was under pressure to be more concillatory, that he would try to make his message less hardline. He gave it a go, realized it was a terrible error, and so blamed it on Satan!

The point is this - how did Mohammed know he was really dealing with the Angel Gabriel as the messanger of Allah? What tests did he conduct? Islam is full of stories of jinn, the leader of whom is Shaitan. Why couldn't Shaitan have pretended to be Gabriel and dictated the Koran to Mohammed, making the whole book a set of Satanic verses!!!

It seems that the people of the ancient world were addicted to "naming" (the name of something, or the name it gives itself, truly tells you what it is). If someone names himself the Angel Gabriel then he is! But that's the gospel of the madhouse where any number of lunatics name themselves as figures much grander than their true selves. A madman who names himself Napoleon does not thereby become Napoleon.

How can any believer ever Know? There are no conceivable objective, rational criteria. Believers have a remarkably touching faith that if a voice identifies itself as "God" then it really is. They seem never to have encountered the concept of deception, the con, the lie, the pretence, the fraud, the fake, the forgery, the simulacram. This makes them more or less autistic. And is not the Devil the "Father of Lies"?

Did Moses interrogate the burning bush? Who subjected Jesus Christ to any tests that he was "God"? How can anyone know if Mohammed encountered the Angel Gabriel? It's all just hearsay and bullshit. A believer never KNOWS anything; that's why he's a believer and not a knower. Even if "Jesus Christ" came down in the Second Coming, how would anyone know? A powerful alien species might have read the Book of Revelation and decided to carry out an April Fool's Day prank.

If Jesus Christ started ordering all fathers to murder their children, that might seem very unChristlike, but, then, he ordered Abraham to murder his son, so it would in fact come as no surprise. That's Christianity for you!

Quite simply, "belief" is deranged. It offers no certainty at all. If "God" appeared right in front of you right now, you would actually have no idea at all whether it really was God. What questions would you ask to verify his identity, what tests would you conduct? And if you wouldn't ask any questions or perform any tests, how could you ever be sure who it was?

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Re: How Do You Authenticate God? by Nobody: 8:07pm On Nov 18, 2016
Cc. CoolUsername, Shadeyinka, Muafrika2, Ishilove, KingEbukasBlog, KingEbukaNaija, Braineypraisey, Promise10, Strawman, Winner01, DoctorAlien, urahara, SirWere, johnydon22, joseph1013, Teempakguy, realmindz, HardMirror, Oubenji, hahn, hopefulLandlord, frank317, TheSixthSense, Weah96, analice107, Plaetton, Lennycool, PastorAIO, DeepSight, Joshthefirst, 4everGod, Naijadeyhia.
Re: How Do You Authenticate God? by Seun(m): 8:41pm On Nov 18, 2016
Good question. Note that mentioning a large number of people is considered to be a form of spamming.

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Re: How Do You Authenticate God? by Nobody: 8:55pm On Nov 18, 2016
Excellent. Waiting to see how they'll respond
Re: How Do You Authenticate God? by Flexherbal(m): 8:57pm On Nov 18, 2016
Strong question!
Re: How Do You Authenticate God? by Nobody: 9:06pm On Nov 18, 2016
Seun:
Good question. Note that mentioning a large number of people is considered to be a form of spamming.
Alright. Noted.
Re: How Do You Authenticate God? by DoctorAlien(m): 9:21pm On Nov 18, 2016
Satan was very powerful, next in power only to Christ Himself. However, he sinned, and iniquity was found in him, and he corrupted his wisdom(See Ezek. 28:13-18). We know that Satan is evil and iniquitous by nature.

Now the LORD expressly says "Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit." Matt. 7:16-18

See Gal. 5:19-21 for the fruits which a Satan-controlled life will yield. See v.22-24 for the fruits which a Christ-possessed life will yield.

I'll conclude by saying that a life devoid of Christ is already in Satan's control. Such an one does not need to "encounter" Satan again. So, if you know that you don't have Christ in your life, strive to meet Him today, and enjoy the unlimited goodness He bestows, while getting freed from Satan's bondage.

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Re: How Do You Authenticate God? by TomHagen: 9:31pm On Nov 18, 2016
You authenticate by faith and an expression of spiritual fruits as the doctor above has explained.

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Re: How Do You Authenticate God? by DoctorAlien(m): 10:07pm On Nov 18, 2016
To the question about how Abraham was able to discern GOD's voice:

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me." Jn. 10:27

It also helps to understand that it was Christ who commanded Abraham to sacrifice his only son to Him(to test how loyal Abraham could be to Him.)

Abraham was also sober and vigilant as 1 Pet. 5:8 instructs, and thus could quickly discern commands from GOD and those not from Him.

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Re: How Do You Authenticate God? by Nobody: 10:20pm On Nov 18, 2016
TomHagen:
You authenticate by faith and an expression of spiritual fruits as the doctor above has explained.
Faith is NEVER a rational criterion for authenticating any idea. That's why it's possible to have faith in anything that rocks your boat, that appeals to your emotions. It's all about feelings, and that's the opposite of reason.

A "Devil-worshipper" can also lay claim to "authentification by faith and expression of spiritual fruits".

You've answered nothing, dude.
Re: How Do You Authenticate God? by KingEbukasBlog(m): 10:22pm On Nov 18, 2016
DoctorAlien:
To the question about how Abraham was able to discern GOD's voice:

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me." Jn. 10:27

It also helps to understand that it was Christ who commanded Abraham to sacrifice his only son to Him(to test how loyal Abraham could be to Him.)

Abraham was also sober and vigilant as 1 Pet. 5:8 instructs, and thus could quickly discern commands from GOD and those not from Him.

Excellent response

There's that affinity with God and his true followers .

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Re: How Do You Authenticate God? by Nobody: 10:24pm On Nov 18, 2016
DoctorAlien:
Satan was very powerful, next in power only to Christ Himself. However, he sinned, and iniquity was found in him, and he corrupted his wisdom(See Ezek. 28:13-18). We know that Satan is evil and iniquitous by nature.

Now the LORD expressly says "Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit." Matt. 7:16-18

See Gal. 5:19-21 for the fruits which a Satan-controlled life will yield. See v.22-24 for the fruits which a Christ-possessed life will yield.

I'll conclude by saying that a life devoid of Christ is already in Satan's control. Such an one does not need to "encounter" Satan again. So, if you know that you don't have Christ in your life, strive to meet Him today, and enjoy the unlimited goodness He bestows, while getting freed from Satan's bondage.
You didn't get the point, did you? You're quoting from the Bible, man. The Bible was written by men who claimed to be inspired by "God". Now, the question is, By what criteria did they arrive at the conclusion that the inspirations were from God? Was it because he called himself God? Does that make him God? How did they know who it was?

You haven't answered this.
Re: How Do You Authenticate God? by Nobody: 10:25pm On Nov 18, 2016
KingEbukasBlog:


Excellent response

There's that affinity with God and his true followers .
That response, though "excellent", didn't answer the question.

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Re: How Do You Authenticate God? by TomHagen: 10:27pm On Nov 18, 2016
joyContraMundum:
Faith is NEVER a rational criteria for authenticating any idea. That's why it's possible to have faith in anything that rocks your boat, that appeals to your emotions. It's all about feelings, and that's the opposite of reason.

A "Devil-worshipper" can also lay claim to "authentification by faith and expression of spiritual fruits".

You've answered nothing, dude.
God never claimed to be your definition of rational bro. Don't get it twisted.
Re: How Do You Authenticate God? by Nobody: 10:28pm On Nov 18, 2016
TomHagen:
God never claimed to be your definition of rational bro. Don't get it twisted.
Re: How Do You Authenticate God? by DoctorAlien(m): 10:29pm On Nov 18, 2016
A little study of the whole theme of the Salvation of man would reveal that the encounter between Christ and Abraham in Gen. 22 serves more purpose than people really think. Abraham knew that GOD would, one day, send a Substitute to be sacrificed. Perhaps, GOD wanted to impress Abraham with the personality of this Substitute; that He is Somebody so dear to GOD.

Let's draw some parallels:

1. Isaac was Abraham's only son. Christ is GOD's only begotten Son.

2. GOD the Father was willing to give up His only Son. Abraham was willing to give up His only son.

The difference between Christ and Satan is seen in Christ preventing Abraham from killing his son, Isaac. Satan was a murderer from the beginning(Jn. 8:44). He came to "steal, and to kill, and to destroy." But Jesus came to give life to men, and to give it to them more abundantly.(Jn. 10:10).

So, Christ is totally different from Satan.
Re: How Do You Authenticate God? by Nobody: 10:31pm On Nov 18, 2016
DoctorAlien:
A little study of the whole theme of the Salvation of man would reveal that the encounter between Christ and Abraham in Gen. 22 serves more purpose than people really think. Abraham knew that GOD would, one day, send a Substitute to be sacrificed. Perhaps, GOD wanted to impress Abraham with the personality of this Substitute; that He is Somebody so dear to GOD.

Let's draw some parallels:

1. Isaac was Abraham's only son. Christ is GOD's only begotten Son.

2. GOD the Father was willing to give up His only Son. Abraham was willing to give up His only son.

The difference between Christ and Satan is seen in Christ preventing Abraham from killing his son, Isaac. Satan was a murderer from the beginning(Jn. 8:44). He came to "steal, and to kill, and to destroy." But Jesus came to give life to men, and to give it to them more abundantly.(Jn. 10:10).

So, Christ is totally different from Satan.
Did Christ prevent Jephtha from making a human sacrifice of his daughter?

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Re: How Do You Authenticate God? by DoctorAlien(m): 10:38pm On Nov 18, 2016
joyContraMundum:
You didn't get the point, do you? You're quoting from the Bible, man. The Bible was written by men who claimed to be inspired by "God". Now, the question is, By what criteria did they arrive at the conclusion that the inspirations were from God? Was it because he called himself God? Does that make him God? How did they know who it was?

You haven't answered this.

I'm not here to defend the authenticity of the Bible. All the information you want about GOD and His dealings with man is found in the Bible.

The authenticity of the Bible is a topic for another day.

And I know that this is an attempt at subtly asking the question "Prove that GOD exists." But, bro, I don't have time for such unrewarding, meaningless, spiritually unbenefitting arguments.

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Re: How Do You Authenticate God? by Nobody: 10:47pm On Nov 18, 2016
DoctorAlien:


I'm not here to defend the authenticity of the Bible. All the information you want about GOD and His dealings with man is found in the Bible.

The authenticity of the Bible is a topic for another day.

And I know that this is an attempt at subtly asking the question "Prove that GOD exists." But, bro, I don't have time for such unrewarding, meaningless, spiritually unbenefitting arguments.
LMAO...... I thought you have a duty to preach the gospel and win souls which is what Christ's Great Commission is all about. Now, if you're to preach the gospel to an unbeliever in a bid to draw him to salvation by accepting Christ as his personal Lord and Saviour, and he asks the same question I asked then you would go on to tell him this: "I know that this is an attempt at subtly asking the question "Prove that GOD exists." But, bro, I don't have time for such unrewarding, meaningless, spiritually unbenefitting arguments"? Do you expect him to be credulous enough to just swallow the whole thing without asking questions?

I can understand that you have no answer to the question I asked. But instead of admitting that, you're resorting to round-about tactics. No need for that. "You owe me no explanation." You're excused, sir.
Re: How Do You Authenticate God? by KingEbukasBlog(m): 10:48pm On Nov 18, 2016
joyContraMundum:
You didn't get the point, do you? You're quoting from the Bible, man. The Bible was written by men who claimed to be inspired by "God". Now, the question is, By what criteria did they arrive at the conclusion that the inspirations were from God? Was it because he called himself God? Does that make him God? How did they know who it was?

You haven't answered this.

DoctorALien's verse "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me." John. 10:27 answers your question .

There's that connection between God and his true followers . Its more of a divine assurance . As a true follower of God , since you are divinely connected with God , you can know when a voice or command is God's . You have the Holy Spirit already dwelling in you that resists any contrary spirit .

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Re: How Do You Authenticate God? by DoctorAlien(m): 10:56pm On Nov 18, 2016
joyContraMundum:
Did Christ prevent Jephtha from making a human sacrifice of his daughter?

The Bible does not specifically say that Jephthah burnt her daughter. I'd like to think he simply devoted her to the service of GOD. Thus, she never got married and she knew no man carnally. Judges 11:39 gives a hint at this. Also, the daughter went to bemoan her virginity. That suggests something.

Jer. 7:31; 19:5 and 32:35 clearly indicate that the idea of human sacrifice never entered GOD's mind, and since it did not, GOD would not require Jephthah to make her daughter pass through the fire(Lev. 20:1-5).

The women of Israel copied the act of Jephthah's daughter's friends, and simply made it a custom.
Re: How Do You Authenticate God? by Nobody: 10:56pm On Nov 18, 2016
KingEbukasBlog:


DoctorALien's verse "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me." John. 10:27 answers your question .

There's that connection between God and his true followers . Its more of a divine assurance . As a true follower of God , since you are divinely connected with God , you can know when a voice or command is God's . You have the Holy Spirit already dwelling in you that resists any contrary spirit .
Kingbubuman too! This is very straightforward nah! Why does it keep flying right over your heads?

That verse was supposedly inspired by whom its writers called God, because that was how he identified himself..... A voice in their heads TOLD them he's God and directed them to write down the message he has for the human race. The question is, how did they know he wasn't lying? That he was indeed who he claimed to be? Capiche?
Re: How Do You Authenticate God? by Nobody: 11:10pm On Nov 18, 2016
DoctorAlien:


The Bible does not specifically say that Jephthah burnt her daughter. I'd like to think he simply devoted her to the service of GOD. Thus, she never got married and she knew no man carnally. Judges 11:39 gives a hint at this. Also, the daughter went to bemoan her virginity. That suggests something.

Jer. 7:31; 19:5 and 32:35 clearly indicate that the idea of human sacrifice never entered GOD's mind, and since it did not, GOD would not require Jephthah to make her daughter pass through the fire(Lev. 20:1-5).

The women of Israel copied the act of Jephthah's daughter's friends, and simply made it a custom.
Oh really? Didn't Jephtha eventually "do with her according to his vow which he had vowed" ? Isn't that in the Bible? What was this "vow of his which he had vowed"? Yes......?
Re: How Do You Authenticate God? by DoctorAlien(m): 11:17pm On Nov 18, 2016
joyContraMundum:
Oh really? Didn't Jephtha eventually "do with her according to his vow which he had vowed" ? Isn't that in the Bible? What is "his vow which he had vowed"? Yes......?
DoctorAlien:
Jer. 7:31; 19:5 and 32:35 clearly indicate that the idea of human sacrifice never entered GOD's mind, and since it did not, GOD would not require Jephthah to make her daughter pass through the fire(Lev. 20:1-5).
Re: How Do You Authenticate God? by Nobody: 11:27pm On Nov 18, 2016
[quote author=DoctorAlien post=51158455][/quote] Your God is notorious for being astonishingly contradictory. He takes U-turns every now and then. He says thou shall not kill, but presided over, supervised and commanded the horrific deaths of many innocents at the hands of the Sons of Israel. He asserts to King Saul through Samuel that he NEVER changes, but we've seen him change his mind a number of times in his Biography contained in the Bible..... etc, etc..... This nullifies your point. He's not trustworthy and pretty unstable. He doesn't stand by his words. In light of this, the Bible verse you quoted serves no purpose.
Re: How Do You Authenticate God? by DoctorAlien(m): 11:34pm On Nov 18, 2016
joyContraMundum:
LMAO...... I thought you have a duty to preach the gospel and win souls which is what Christ's Great Commission is all about. Now, if you're to preach the gospel to an unbeliever in a bid to draw him to salvation by accepting Christ as his personal Lord and Saviour, and he asks the same question I asked then you would go on to tell him this: "I know that this is an attempt at subtly asking the question "Prove that GOD exists." But, bro, I don't have time for such unrewarding, meaningless, spiritually unbenefitting arguments"? Do you expect him to be credulous enough to just swallow the whole thing without asking questions?

"And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet..." Matt. 10:14

"...he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of GOD." Jn.3:18

Bro, GOD isn't gonna plead with you forever.
Re: How Do You Authenticate God? by DoctorAlien(m): 11:36pm On Nov 18, 2016
joyContraMundum:
Your God is notorious for being astonishingly contradictory. He takes U-turns every now and then. He says thou shall not kill, but presided over, supervised and commanded the horrific deaths of many innocents at the hands of the Sons of Israel. He asserts to King Saul through Samuel that he NEVER changes, but we've seen him change his mind a number of times in his Biography contained in the Bible..... etc, etc..... This nullifies your point. He's not trustworthy and pretty unstable. He doesn't stand by his words. In light of this, the Bible verse you quoted serves no purpose.

Were the people GOD killed innocent?

If yes, how?

If no, then you have no point.
Re: How Do You Authenticate God? by Nobody: 11:40pm On Nov 18, 2016
DoctorAlien:


"And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet..." Matt. 10:14

"...he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of GOD." Jn.3:18

Bro, GOD isn't gonna plead with you forever.
If you really believed this, you wouldn't have gone about defending your Christian faith upandan. It's when I asked you a question that you couldn't answer that you remembered these verses, abi? Why not show some consistency? This kind of double-think is irritating.
Re: How Do You Authenticate God? by Nobody: 11:51pm On Nov 18, 2016
DoctorAlien:


Were the people GOD killed innocent?

If yes, how?

If no, then you have no point.
An example that YOU can relate with would suffice. Imagine that stateless (homeless) nomadic war-mongering circumcised bastards - an entire nation of them - attacked Nigeria under the pretext that their God (which we DO NOT believe in) has delivered us into their hands because he has promised them OUR land. Then this brutal war-mongering nation of genocidal bastards killed every single one of us, male and female, young and old, mothers and babies and all our pets and livestock in the name of THEIR God. In this scenario, who's innocent? Who's guilty and filthy? The answer is self-evident.

Yet, this is what Joshua and his slave tribe of circumcised animals did to the inhabitants of Jericho, in the name of Yahweh.
Re: How Do You Authenticate God? by KingEbukasBlog(m): 11:53pm On Nov 18, 2016
joyContraMundum:
Your God is notorious for being astonishingly contradictory. He takes U-turns every now and then. He says thou shall not kill, but presided over, supervised and commanded the horrific deaths of many innocents at the hands of the Sons of Israel. He asserts to King Saul through Samuel that he NEVER changes, but we've seen him change his mind a number of times in his Biography contained in the Bible..... etc, etc..... This nullifies your point. He's not trustworthy and pretty unstable. He doesn't stand by his words. In light of this, the Bible verse you quoted serves no purpose.

God unchanging is as regards to his quality . He can't stop being an eternal omniscient , omnipresent God , or stop being Holy or good . That's what God's immutability is all about .

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Re: How Do You Authenticate God? by DoctorAlien(m): 11:56pm On Nov 18, 2016
[s]
joyContraMundum:
An example that YOU can relate with would suffice. Imagine that stateless (homeless) nomadic war-mongering circumcised bastards - an entire nation of them - attacked Nigeria in under the pretext that their God (which we DO NOT believe in) has delivered us into their hands because he has promised them OUR land. Then this brutal war-mongering nation of genocidal bastards killed every single one of us, male and female, young and old, mothers and babies and all our pets and livestock in the name of THEIR God. In this scenario, who's innocent? Who's guilty and filthy? The answer is self-evident.

Yet, this is what Joshua and his slave tribe of circumcised animals did to the inhabitants of Jericho, in the name of Yahweh.
[/s]

I did not ask you to teach me how to use uncouth words.

GOD killed those nations because they were idolatrous and extremely sinful.

If you don't agree, bye.

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