I know any Muslim will say "Allah's" or "God's" of course. But is it true? Have taken time to read through the Qur'an or you just believed a popular saying?

Reading the Qur'an myself, I found
-- words of angel(s),

-- words of men, and

-- the way the ones that could have been called word of God can be doubted if we check for it's accuracy based on what the speaker says he will do etc

For example, was it God that vowed to keep the Qur'an from corruption? It is not a news that the Qur'an has been corrupted. Even Muslim scholars say so. Just google "The Corruption of the Qur'an" - least you say I'm lying- and carefully examine the points made by those speaking.

This is not an issues for emotional display. I'm not trying to make any Muslim angry. I'm just saying instead of attacking other people's believes, examine whether yours is really genuine first. Examine if what you call genuine can measure up to the standard of other people's religious text in accuracy.
ASSUMING, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU ARE AN ATHEIST WHO WANTS TO BECOME A THEIST AND WANTS TO WEIGHT THE QUR'AN AND THE BIBLE BY THE SAME STANDARD, HOW WILL YOU SEE THE QUR'AN.

The Qur'an says people will end up in hell for not listening AND REASONING. Will you not be among if you don't examine the Qur'an with INTELLIGENCE? What if the author is intentional about all the clues in it so that the wise can flee? Who will you blame?


e.g. Sura 19:64
"We descend not except by the command of your Lord..."
Check word for word from Arabic to English here so you will not be confused by the corruption included by translators: http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=19&verse=64

IS THIS GOD SPEAKING WHO DOES NOT KNOW THE EXACT POPULATION OF THE PEOPLE OR NINEVEH?
(Note: It didn't read: more than)
Then We sent him to a nation of one hundred thousand people OR MORE.[/b]Sura (Assafat)37:147

REPLIES REPLIES REPLIES REPLIES

* NEW (20/Dec./2016)

Lexiconkabir and every honest Muslim reading this,

On the translation of Sura 37:147 as "rather exceeded" by two translators as against at least 5 others who said it is "or more"-- the issue being that is God the one speaking (check main post)

Morphology:
• aw = or – coordinating conjunction
• yazīdūna = more.
Check a trusted morphology also used by Sahih International translation here: http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=37&verse=147#(37:147:1)

1. "rather exceeded" is a word showing certainty "or more" is not. The Arabic text doesn't have "rather" and there is no reason to suggest that "or more" was a wrong translation. Otherwise, trust Yusuf Ali, he would use "rather". Other translators as well.

2. There is nothing in the following verse that says "or more" is not correct. Just a continuation of thoughts.

3. It is said by the prophet that he was the only one sent to the whole world and the Qur'an itself states that the book is not only pure Arabic but clear. Why should "rather" and "or" be difficult to translate into the language of the people the prophet was sent to?

4. Which other verse of the Qur'an translates that word to "rather"?

On Corruption of the Qur'an, of the ayat on killing by stoning an adulterer or adulteress which is still practised under Sharia


1. Which verse (ayat) is abrogated? The verse on punishment of adultery in the Qur'an now (flogging) that everyone can read or the one on stoning that was removed or lost but is still practiced?

2. Did God forget to preserve the verse He meant to be followed while he faithfully preserved the abrogated one if of truth the Qur'an is of Divine origin or was God lying?

3. Was it the prophet that decided to ignore the "best Hadith"(Qur'an) to follow his own rule? Or should we accept that the human Hadith is more reliable than the Hadith of God- if the Qur'an is indeed from God?

______________________________
PREVIOUS REPLIES ARE BELOW
______________________________

Lexiconkabir, that means the Qur'an is both the word of God and angel Jibril, right?

Lexiconkabir, On translation of 37:147. All the translations I checked, including Yusuf Ali.
Examples:

Pickthall : And We sent him to a hundred thousand (folk) or more


Asad : And [then] We sent him [once again] to [his people,] a hundred thousand [souls] or more:


Malik : Then We sent him to a nation of one hundred thousand people or more.


Yusuf Ali : And We sent him (on a mission) to a hundred thousand (men) or more.


On Corruption:

WHERE IS THE VERSE ON STONING TO DEATH IN ADULTERY CASES.
(I hope you won't say the Sunna abrogated the Qur'an, cause the Qur'an is clear on that.)

Sahih Bukhari Hadith
•• Volume 8, Book 82, Number 815:

Narrated Abu Huraira and Zaid bin Khalid:
While we were with the Prophet, a man stood up and said (to the Prophet ), "I beseech you by Allah, that you should judge us according to Allah's Laws." Then the man's opponent who was wiser than him, got up saying (to Allah's Apostle) "Judge us according to Allah's Law and kindly allow me (to speak)." The Prophet said, "Speak." He said, "My son was a laborer working for this man and he committed an illegal sexual intercourse with his wife, and I gave one-hundred sheep and a slave as a ransom for my son's sin. Then I asked a learned man about this case and he informed me that my son should receive one hundred lashes and be exiled for one year, and the man's wife should be stoned to death." The Prophet said, "By Him in Whose Hand my soul is, I will judge you according to the laws of Allah. Your one-hundred sheep and the slave are to be returned to you, and your son has to receive one-hundred lashes and be exiled for one year. O Unais! Go to the wife of this man, and if she confesses, then stone to death." Unais went to her and she confessed. He then stoned her to death."

•• Volume 8, Book 82, Number 817:

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
... In the meantime, 'Umar sat on the pulpit and when the callmakers for the prayer had finished their call, 'Umar stood up, and having glorified and praised Allah as He deserved, he said, "Now then, I am going to tell you something which (Allah) has written for me to say. I do not know; perhaps it portends my death, so whoever understands and remembers it, must narrate it to the others wherever his mount takes him, but if somebody is afraid that he does not understand it, then it is unlawful for him to tell lies about me. Allah sent Muhammad with the Truth and revealed the Holy Book to him, and among what Allah revealed, was the Verse of the Rajam (the stoning of married person (male & female) who commits illegal sexual intercourse, and we did recite this Verse and understood and memorized it. Allah's Apostle did carry out the punishment of stoning and so did we after him. I am afraid that after a long time has passed, somebody will say, 'By Allah, we do not find the Verse of the Rajam in Allah's Book,' and thus they will go astray by leaving an obligation which Allah has revealed. And the punishment of the Rajam is to be inflicted to any married person (male & female), who commits illegal sexual intercourse, if the required evidence is available or there is conception or confession

U mean it's as corrupt as Nigeria?
Someone must go to jail Menh!

Sahih International Translation



And they will say, "If only we had been listening or reasoning, we would not be among the companions of the Blaze." Sura 67:10

[quote author=PDBonline post=52029481]
For example, was it God that vowed to keep the Qur'an from corruption? It is not a news that the Qur'an has been corrupted. critics need no explanations. Stick to what you think

Jibril659 and everyone who reads, my purpose is not to criticize Muslim. What benefit will that be to me. Please read the Qur'an yourself with this question in mind "WHO IS SPEAKING HERE?" "WHOSE WORDS ARE QUOTED HERE?" "IS THIS STATEMENT TRUE?"
That's all I am challenging you to do.

I don't think it is appropriate to conclude that only only non-Muslims should use their reasoning when reading the Qur'an or is the Qur'an for non-Muslims only?

PDBonline:
I know any Muslim will say "Allah's" or "God's" of course. But is it true? Have taken time to read through the Qur'an or you just believed a popular saying?

Reading the Qur'an myself, I found
-- word's of angel(s),

-- words of men, and

-- the way the ones that could have been called word of God can be doubted if we check for it's accuracy based on what the speaker says he will do.
For example, was it God that vowed to keep the Qur'an from corruption? It is not a news that the Qur'an has been corrupted. Even Muslim scholars say so. Just google "The Corruption of the Qur'an" - least you say I'm lying- and carefully examine the points made by those speaking.

This is not an issues for emotional display. I'm not trying to make any Muslim angry. I'm just saying instead of attacking other people's believes, examine whether yours is really genuine first. Examine if what you call genuine can measure up to the standard of other people's religious text in accuracy.
ASSUMING, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU ARE AN ATHEIST WHO WANTS TO BECOME A THEIST AND WANTS TO WEIGHT THE QUR'AN AND THE BIBLE BY THE SAME STANDARD, HOW WILL YOU SEE THE QUR'AN.

The Qur'an says people will end up in hell for not listening AND REASONING. Will you not be among if you don't examine the Qur'an with INTELLIGENCE? What if the author is intentional about all the clues in it so that the wise can flee? Who will you blame?

when you are narrating something that happened between you and another person, do you quote what the person said if the need arises?

and as for corruption, can you give examples of these "corruption"?

PDBonline:
Sahih International Translation



And they will say, "If only we had been listening or reasoning, we would not be among the companions of the Blaze." Sura 67:10

why don't you read the verses before that?

PDBonline:

e.g. Sura 19:64
"We descend not except by the command of your Lord..."
Check word for word from Arabic to English here so you will not be confused by the corruption included by translators: http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=19&verse=64

and as for this, whenever you pick a verse of the Qur'an put it's context into consideration, jibril was the one speaking on behalf of all angels here as instructed by His Lord to say to Muhammad, Muhammad(sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) asked why he(jibril) suddenly stopped visiting him like he did in the past, then jibril made that statement as commanded by His Lord – Allaah.

every single thing in the Quran was transmitted to Muhammad by jibril under the command of Allaah.

It is all the Speech of Allah, either giving commands and exhortations, or reporting historical or future events as a reminder or a lesson. The difficulty for some people comes from their lack of understanding of Arabic syntax. The higher literary form of pure Arabic speech (and the Quran is the highest form) tends to discourage obvious tautology, so "they said", "he said" are not necessarily used if who said what is already obvious from the context. This seems incongruous in English, but is purer in Arabic.

I hope this helps you understand the answer to your question.

before i give an answer to this;

"IS THIS GOD SPEAKING WHO DOES NOT KNOW THE EXACT POPULATION OF THE PEOPLE OR NINEVEH?
(Note: It didn't read: more than)
[b]Then We sent him to a nation of one hundred thousand people OR MORE.[/b]Sura (Assafat)37:147

I would like to ask, which of the Qur'an translators translated this verse this way?

well, the way it was translated doesn't give the actual meaning intended, the word translated as "more" (يزيدون) means increase something that was initially less, some translators translated it as this

And We had sent him to a hundred thousand: rather they exceeded. ~ shakir

And We sent him to a hundred thousand, rather they exceeded. ~ Abdul Majid Daryabadi

this is why Muslims who don't understand Arabic are adviced to have more than one translation of the Qur'an in order not the bypass the message being passed across.

now i will explain what is being passed accross.

yunus(jonah) was sent to over a hundred thousand people but refused and got swallowed, when he was vomitted, he had to go back to what he refused initially, but this time instead of the initial number of people he was supposed to preach to, they EXCEEDED that number, despite the increase in number they all believed, as thr next verse says.


As for the verse of stoning, in Islam they are three types of naskh(abrogation)

1) Abrogation of both the ahkaam(rulings) and the aayaat(verses)

2) Abrogation of the ahkaam(rulings) but not the aayaat(verses)

3) Abrogation of the aayaat(verses) but not the ahkaam(rulings)

The "verse of rajam" falls in the third category.