manny4life:

Nigeria hasn't experienced recession in my own point of view. For a country to experience recession, it must first experience a certain height of Growth and Development which in this case I've not seen any measurable development.

nice humor there naija has always been in recession, but this time around it is depression with the loss of jobs in the banking secotr which happens to be a major emloyer of nmost nigerians.

axeman85:

@kobojunkie

are you saying the recession didnt affect naija economy or property market ?

According to the CBN governor, Nigeria was not directly impacted by the global recession.

Kobojunkie:

According to the CBN governor, Nigeria was not directly impacted by the global recession.

in as much as i wont like to say recession is in naija we both know it is becos i call what happens in the banking secotr and loss of jobs on a daily basis recession when business men cant have loans to operate their business and banks are closing branches as well as business folding up. thats what in call depression/recession.

axeman85:

nice humor there naija has always been in recession, but this time around it is depression with the loss of jobs in the banking secotr which happens to be a major emloyer of nmost nigerians.

Dude its no humor, Nigeria wasn't impacted by the global recession. When did Nigeria go into recession an let's take a good look at some figures; what is the percentage differential of jobs that were created to the ones lost? Whatever happened in the banking sector is nothing but poor executive decision making and did not necessarily impact the economy per say

axeman85:

in as much as i wont like to say recession is in naija we both know it is becos i call what happens in the banking secotr and loss of jobs on a daily basis recession when business men cant have loans to operate their business and banks are closing branches as well as business folding up. thats what in call depression/recession.

What happened to the Nigerian banks is NOT directly connected to the global recession. That was manufactured on the most part by Nigeria's 419 machine. Nigeria banks have been running within a closed bubble for years and so what happened was to be expected at some point. Now, on how that directly affected the Nigerian economy, I don't believe we even have accurate detail to show for this.

axeman85:

in as much as i wont like to say recession is in naija we both know it is becos i call what happens in the banking secotr and loss of jobs on a daily basis recession when business men cant have loans to operate their business and banks are closing branches as well as business folding up. thats what in call depression/recession.

Dude is that what you define as recession?

First, recession obviously is the opposite of growth; a decline in economic activity key thing is that it affects the economy. My point is Nigeria as a whole and its economy of 160 million people has not created substantial growth to experience a negative decline. Nigeria hasn't created enough jobs, the economy hasn't experienced robust development as it should, our economic and financial policies are somewhat stagnant.

That business men can't have loans has nothing to do with the economy is what we call business decision making on the banks and banks closing down their branches is strategic management. However its true that they employed people to work at those branches, but the percentage of lost jobs does not have any "significant economic impact".

What I'm trying to say in all is that just as an economy experience "SIGNIFICANT GROWTH" (POSITIVE), there has to be a "SIGNIFICANT DECLINE" (NEGATIVE), and it has to have a DIRECT IMPACT on the economy as a whole

manny4life:

Dude its no humor, Nigeria wasn't impacted by the global recession. When did Nigeria go into recession an let's take a good look at some figures; what is the percentage differential of jobs that were created to the ones lost? Whatever happened in the banking sector is nothing but poor executive decision making and did not necessarily impact the economy per say

so what happened to leyman brother which i believewas the first casualty of which the recession started from. wasnt it poor executive decision ? but the difference is that in naija they also compiled their own with giving out uncollaterised loans without following due process which makes naija own worse. becos most countries are on the road to recovery but naija own has just started all becos soludo was turning a blind eye and allowing banks post ficticious figures.

manny4life:

Dude is that what you define as recession?

First, recession obviously is the opposite of growth; a decline in economic activity key thing is that it affects the economy. My point is Nigeria as a whole and its economy of 160 million people has not created substantial growth to experience a negative decline. Nigeria hasn't created enough jobs, the economy hasn't experienced robust development as it should, our economic and financial policies are somewhat stagnant.

That business men can't have loans has nothing to do with the economy is what we call business decision making on the banks and banks closing down their branches is strategic management. However its true that they employed people to work at those branches, but the percentage of lost jobs does not have any "significant economic impact".

What I'm trying to say in all is that just as an economy experience "SIGNIFICANT GROWTH" (POSITIVE), there has to be a "SIGNIFICANT DECLINE" (NEGATIVE), and it has to have a DIRECT IMPACT on the economy as a whole

so are you saying the crissis in naija currently has no economic growth or not significant. ? pls when comparing naija and other countries lets critically do so as we both know the 2 cant be compared as they are more better off than naija economically, but in naija levelm of economy i call that recession. becos when a major employer of people begins sacking its work force creating more jobless people adding to the current large unemployed graduates. at this point then worse is yet to come as this is only the begining.

axeman85:

so what happened to leyman brother which i believewas the first casualty of which the recession started from. wasnt it poor executive decision ? but the difference is that in naija they also compiled their own with giving out uncollaterised loans without following due process which makes naija own worse. becos most countries are on the road to recovery but naija own has just started all becos soludo was turning a blind eye and allowing banks post ficticious figures.

First off don't compare Lehman Brothers to Nigerian Banks, you would have to consolidate all 25 or more banks to get half of Lehman, although they were liqiudated less than 90%of thier market vaule. Moreover, Lehman was 100% an investment bank not a commercial bank.

Second executive decision making played its role, but the major problems were it financial and fiscal policies. When Lehman got liquidated, at that time it did not have direct impact on the economy, but when all the top largest banks followed suit, including Goldman Sachs (actually my cousin was actually fired from their NY office), JP Morgan Chase, not certain but I'm sure Morgan Stanley followed suit, Meryl Lynch followed (Bought by Bank of America), Citi Bank followed suit, before you knew AIG and other insurers followed suit, while we at that the BIG 3 followed, including GMAC, even two U.S largest mortgage holders Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were bankrupt also. So from looking at this, you would agree with me that there is "measurable economic impact" from all of this banks and companies runniing into problems.

axeman85:

so are you saying the crissis in naija currently has no economic growth or not significant. ? pls when comparing naija and other countries lets critically do so as we both know the 2 cant be compared as they are more better off than naija economically, but in naija levelm of economy i call that recession. becos when a major employer of people begins sacking its work force creating more jobless people adding to the current large unemployed graduates. at this point then worse is yet to come as this is only the begining.

I'm not comparing, all I'm saying is that Nigeria isn't experiencing any recession as supposed to a developed nation with a population of 160 million people. In other words, if u compare a developed nation that has the resources we have and at 160million or more people, you can measure their growth pattern and success, so would you be able to measure when they are in recession.

You say Nigeria is in recession, and I previously asked what is the percentage differential of the jobs that were created during its boom (growth) period to its shrink (recessive) period? What was Nigeria's unemployment rate during its boom period as to now its in its recessive period.

axeman85:

so are you saying the crissis in naija currently has no economic growth or not significant. ? pls when comparing naija and other countries lets critically do so as we both know the 2 cant be compared as they are more better off than naija economically, but in naija levelm of economy i call that recession.

Technically, if you were to compare Nigerian levels with just Nigerian levels, then you would not have the above. According to the numbers, Nigerian economy continues to grow as a whole. So, no, it is not a recession in that sense. I mean recession means a contraction and by all indications, our “economy” did not necessarily contract along the lines of that definition.

axeman85:

becos when a major employer of people begins sacking its work force creating more jobless people adding to the current large unemployed graduates. at this point then worse is yet to come as this is only the begining.

Not necessarily true, Even during a boom, it is possible for major employers to sack their work force. Remember the move to outsource of only a couple of years ago, in the west? Most major employers sacked employees so they could outsource work to cheaper countries.

Ok let's do some basic calculation here

Below are just assumptions so please bear with me

1. Nigeria has a population of 160million or more people in it.

2. Assuming that the working population between the ages of 18 - 64 represents 70% of the population, therefore the working population of Nigeria is

70/100 (0.70) x 160 million = 112,000,000 million working adults.
Remember its an assumption, we have a 10%unemployment rate, so the umemployed of the working adults would be
10/100 (0.10) x 112 million = 11.2 million non working adults/ unemployed (actively seeking)
As per your claims that so many Nigerians have lost their jobs because of banks firing a lot of eopel, so lets tag it 200,000 lost their jobs, that would bring the total unemployment number to 11.4 million people (11,200,000 + 200,000 = 11.4million)

Let't try to find out what % of 11.4 million people represent on a total of 112 million people, that's 10.71%, that's a 0.001 percentage point change, would you regard that as significant? Perhaps give me your assumptions and let me work it and see.

@manny4life and kobojunkie

mabie its the way am potraying things. what am trying to say is for a country like naija that the situation of things is currently bad to now add more to it is simply making it worse. the west outsourced jobs to other countries which are cheaper like india. but bearing in mind that these countires have provision for those unemployed and made redundant and sacked in the likes of benefits but naija has none so its making a bad situation worse.

axeman85:

@manny4life and kobojunkie

mabie its the way am potraying things. what am trying to say is for a country like naija that the situation of things is currently bad to now add more to it is simply making it worse.  the west outsourced jobs to other countries which are cheaper like india. but bearing in mind that these countires have provision for those unemployed and made redundant and sacked in the likes of benefits but naija has none so its making a bad situation worse.

Ok I think I better understand now what you saying. Yes I agree with you, they do have some benefits unlike Nigeria, I can relate to that.

axeman85:

@manny4life and kobojunkie

mabie its the way am potraying things. what am trying to say is for a country like naija that the situation of things is currently bad to now add more to it is simply making it worse. the west outsourced jobs to other countries which are cheaper like india. but bearing in mind that these countires have provision for those unemployed and made redundant and sacked in the likes of benefits but naija has none so its making a bad situation worse.

Could it simply be that you pretend this is some new trend? No, it is not. Nigeria’s economy has been in sort of this way for decades. We have for a while registered growth but next to no development in most any area. I am not an economist myself, but I wonder how come we have been able to do that for so so long with no crash. I can say that the one thing that keeps this trend running is corruption at all levels.

Maybe he is trying to tell us that Lagos is congested and therefore needs no new migrants or structures.

Fasola is doing good but he needs to relax on placing too much burden on people who are
not accustomed to paying taxes in the first place.

oge4real:

Maybe he is trying to tell us that Lagos is congested and therefore needs no new migrants or structures.

Who know, even good guys have a hidden agenda , haha

y omplain?he wants to build 52 pent houses??lol, where??did it occur to u bad mouthers where he wants to build it?is it ajegunle?or island?the man wey wan build am know better thing na.even if he wasnt taxed,he will sell those buildings at outrageous prices,look at the stupid houses in abuja with crazy price tags for example.y dint he think of 500 houses on the mainland somewhere?nah, na island be where he go make am gbam!!pls pay the price, and any1 that objects should shut up!lol

oge4real:

Maybe he is trying to tell us that Lagos is congested and therefore needs no new migrants or structures.

Lagos is congested. I think the first question to be asked is WHY? Congestion can actually work in the good of a city if well planned. Raising property taxes in this does not only shoo off investors, it helps increase cost of living fast. Property buyers will always be there, problem is they will pass the cost to the average Lagosian on the street. Next time you go to rent, do not be shocked if you are told you probably have to pay 15% more than you did at your last place.

Kobojunkie:

Lagos is congested. I think the first question to be asked is WHY? Congestion can actually work in the good of a city if well planned. Raising property taxes in this does not only shoo off investors, it helps increase cost of living fast. Property buyers will always be there, problem is they will pass the cost to the average Lagosian on the street. Next time you go to rent, do not be shocked if you are told you probably have to pay 15% more than you did at your last place.

increament might be a way of telling these developers to move to other cities. lagos is already congested as it is already. adequate and proper planning wasnt done back in the years which is anyone just builds house whenever and where ever they like after greasing a few palms, without leaving space for proper drainage or road. reason houses are collapsing. a land that the foundation is only good enough to house 2 storeys becos of greed they extend it to 6 storeys.
i understand when you say shooing off investors increases property prices but to be honest these properties are way above the means of an average nigerians . and these developers wont go to the mainland to do this its only on the island so which ever way you ssee it , its of no benefit to the average nigerian

axeman85:

increament might be a way of telling these developers to move to other cities. lagos is already congested as it is already. adequate and proper planning wasnt done back in the years which is anyone just builds house whenever and where ever they like after greasing a few palms, without leaving space for proper drainage or road. reason houses are collapsing. a land that the foundation is only good enough to house 2 storeys becos of greed they extend it to 6 storeys.
i understand when you say shooing off investors increases property prices but to be honest these properties are way above the means of an average nigerians . and these developers wont go to the mainland to do this its only on the island so which ever way you ssee it , its of no benefit to the average nigerian

Lagos developers are shylock. They believe so much in instant cash. Yes, Lagos is congested, but there are still places that can be developed, and cool money made. Have you gone to Badagry road? Have you been to Epe? What about the forest in Ikorodu?. They are all they. I wonder why people always says, there not spaces in Lagos. The only problem is planning!.

axeman85:

increament might be a way of telling these developers to move to other cities. lagos is already congested as it is already. adequate and proper planning wasnt done back in the years which is anyone just builds house whenever and where ever they like after greasing a few palms, without leaving space for proper drainage or road. reason houses are collapsing. a land that the foundation is only good enough to house 2 storeys becos of greed they extend it to 6 storeys.

Lagos has been a well planned state from the beginning. Adequate and proper planning ain’t a problem, negligence has been the case. Now, on your statement that increment might be a way of telling developers to move to other cities, I disagree. It might be telling them in words but I don’t believe that will work against the developers as much as it will against the people.
Consider the cost of a plot of land in the same Lagos about 20 years ago. Affordable and kind of matched what was obtained. Now, in that period, there has been serious infrastructural deterioration, mismanagement etc, but yet the cost of living has climbed at a ridiculous rate along with cost of real estate. Increasing the cost of owning property will not now deter investors, but will only push investors to offload more and more of the cost to average individuals. Let us be real here, this is what simply happens most everywhere. Businesses transfer increased costs to consumers who then are forced to deal with the higher cost of living in the city especially when faced with not many other choices in a place like Nigeria.
Nigeria is not like America where you can move from city to city easily. You essentially have to check cost of living here before you move to ensure you can handle what the city/state has to offer you in terms of income and job. Not Nigeria. You mostly have no choice but to move to a location no matter how expensive in hopes you will get what you want. Also cost is somehow controlled here than it is in Nigeria. That is why cost of living is extremely high in  places like Lagos, Abuja, Owerri, PH etc (Places with next to no basic amenities in place) even when it could cost less to live in other cities like NY, San Francisco, Chicago etc.  It is ridiculous

axeman85:

i understand when you say shooing off investors increases property prices but to be honest these properties are way above the means of an average nigerians . and these developers wont go to the mainland to do this its only on the island so which ever way you ssee it , its of no benefit to the average nigerian

Nothing stops them from moving to the mainland to get money to offset the increase in cost though. So, the increase does not really make much sense still, unless the government is willing to actively get into controlling cost.

Enjoyment1:


Lagos developers are shylock. They believe so much in instant cash. Yes, Lagos is congested, but there are still places that can be developed, and cool money made. Have you gone to Badagry road? Have you been to Epe? What about the forest in Ikorodu?. They are all they. I wonder why people always says, there not spaces in Lagos. The only problem is planning!.

If you lived in Lagos during, say the Jakande era, you would remember that planning was not ever a problem back then. Negligence is more the issue here. Just as negligence has been reason for the rampant disregard for the laws today. And yes, you are right, the developers have already invaded the forests of Ikorodu, Epe etc. I was surprised that I was called to pay over a million for a plot in Ikorodu, Maya area. I was wondering if the cost would be the same in Isiu as well. Shocked me. Yet, transportation and infrastructure to these areas has not been improved.

Kobojunkie:

If you lived in Lagos during, say the Jakande era, you would remember that planning was not ever a problem back then. Negligence is more the issue here. Just as negligence has been reason for the rampant disregard for the laws today. And yes, you are right, the developers have already invaded the forests of Ikorodu, Epe etc. I was surprised that I was called to pay over a million for a plot in Ikorodu, Maya area. I was wondering if the cost would be the same in Isiu as well. Shocked me. Yet, transportation and infrastructure to these areas has not been improved.

I still wonder why you keep saying Lagos was well planned. The only thing I noticed was that, they had a plan for Lagos, which was not strictly followed. That is why we had a couple of places developed, and others not. If there was a plan for Lagos, we wouldn't have had places like Ajegunle. We wouldn't have had places like Mushin. Can you remember how Mushin used to be? Even now, you need to see disasters in the waiting. In fact, there are some houses there that are not habitable. They are environmental disasters!. It is only people ready to commit suicide that lives there. I will never buy that idea that Lagos was well planned. Yes, they had a plan, but was not strictly followed.

Enjoyment1:


I still wonder why you keep saying Lagos was well planned. The only thing I noticed was that, they had a plan for Lagos, which was not strictly followed. That is why we had a couple of places developed, and others not. If there was a plan for Lagos, we wouldn't have had places like Ajegunle. We wouldn't have had places like Mushin. Can you remember how Mushin used to be? Even now, you need to see disasters in the waiting. In fact, there are some houses there that are not habitable. They are environmental disasters!. It is only people ready to commit suicide that lives there. I will never buy that idea that Lagos was well planned. Yes, they had a plan, but was not strictly followed.

Lagos has not always been this way. Ajegungle of the 80's was a decent place to live in. Things changed and now we have to deal with it. Mushin, as you mentioned used to be more upscale than it is now. Only now due to neglect we have turned most of it into a disaster zone and I think no amount of painting or flower planting can fix these things. Government needs to actively get into CORRECTING the problem ASAP. We used to have a well planned Government housing problem in Ikorodu. . . that quickly went to hell in a handbasket back in the 90's but you should have seen it then.

Kobojunkie:

Lagos has not always been this way. Ajegungle of the 80's was a decent place to live in. Things changed and now we have to deal with it. Mushin, as you mentioned used to be more upscale than it is now. Only now due to neglect we have turned most of it into a disaster zone and I think no amount of painting or flower planting can fix these things. Government needs to actively get into CORRECTING the problem ASAP. We used to have a well planned Government housing problem in Ikorodu. . . that quickly went to hell in a handbasket back in the 90's but you should have seen it then.

Now I may agree with you. Things have really changed, which is now very obvious. If you tell all the children given birth to this 80s, they will agree perhaps, there was a plan, but it was not adhered to. If they had followed it as you highlighted it, Lagos would have been a wonderful place. If you see the recent pictures of Lagos, then you will agree to that fact. Lagos would have been competing with Abuja, or even the other way round.

Nigerians want development but they want it cheap. They want power cheap they want housing cheap they want water cheap. They live in astronomical expensive towns outside nigeria but when it comes to Nigeria the Elites want a new Law.

but look they will compare Nigeria to south Africa and other places. There are somes places in south Africa that the pay $1600 a month for an apartment those people pay taxes, some of our landlords never pay taxes.

I support any thing that will make people pay taxes this gives a feeling of ownership to the state you live in. A citizen that pays taxes owns the state. people should never be given licences to build is there are not ready to utilize the land well.

you can run out of lagos if you dont like.

rethink:

Nigerians want development but they want it cheap. They want power cheap they want housing cheap they want water cheap. They live in astronomical expensive towns outside nigeria but when it comes to Nigeria the Elites want a new Law.

but look they will compare Nigeria to south Africa and other places. There are somes places in south Africa that the pay $1600 a month for an apartment those people pay taxes, some of our landlords never pay taxes.

I support any thing that will make people pay taxes this gives a feeling of ownership to the state you live in. A citizen that pays taxes owns the state. people should never be given licences to build is there are not ready to utilize the land well.

you can run out of lagos if you dont like.

Do you live up to your username before you type? Where people are paying so much as tax, are they paying into people's pocket? or are they paying into government's coffers? Who in Nigeria is against paying tax? Even now, who tells you people are not paying tax? Do you know that PAYE system exist in Nigeria? Have any thug like guy, who can be mistaken as a miscreant approached you to collect tax? Has any uniformed thugged rough-handled you, and taken you to a make-shift illegal spot to demand for development tax? Have you paid Tv permit, Radio permit, advert permit, business permit, to local, state, and federal government before? My guy, always live to your username before you vomit those things!.

selingel:

Do you live up to your username before you type?

Where people are paying so much as tax, are they paying into people's pocket? or are they paying into government's coffers? Who in Nigeria is against paying tax? Even now, who tells you people are not paying tax? Do you know that PAYE system exist in Nigeria? Have any thug like guy, who can be mistaken as a miscreant approached you to collect tax? Has any uniformed thugged rough-handled you, and taken you to a make-shift illegal spot to demand for development tax? Have you paid Tv permit, Radio permit, advert permit, business permit, to local, state, and federal government before? My guy, always live to your username before you vomit those things!.

lol

[size=18pt]This is why doing business in Nigeria is like crossing a frozen lake blindfolded holding a bowl of boiling water whilst being shot at , and trying not to sink.[/size]


Businesses would eventually get tired of having tax and rent collected at gun point whenever the local cops are broke. Being closed down for no reason is pretty common as well. At times the oil workers would have to hand over cash just to enter there own compound.

YOU NEED TO GO TO ANY MINISTRY OR LOCAL GOVT TO SEE HOW THEY ARE SPENDING LAGOS MONEY!! CHECK OUT THE WONDERS-ON-WHEELS BEING USED BY THE SO CALLED CIVIL SERVANTS AND POLITICAL APPOINTEES WHO WERE ONCE MERE POLITICAL THUGS. FASHOLA NEEDS TO WATCH IT.