- I stumbled on this article - i find the discussion quite interesting and thought i'd share - contributions would be welcome

The law of attraction proponents like to say things like:

there’s no such thing as a coincidence
everything happens for a reason
nothing in your life happens by accident
everything happens in accordance with God’s plan
Perhaps those are comforting things, but is that really true? And if so, what does that mean?

Christianity has struggled with the debate between predestination and free will since its beginnings. The free will philosophy states that we are free to make decisions that will effect the outcomes of our lives independently of any particular cause or supernatural force.

Predestination, on the other hand, states that some mystical force such as fate or the gods are in complete control of our lives. They’ve planned out our lives from well before we came into this world and crafted a universe that unfolds according to their programming.

We know that as we live our lives, many things are caused by something. If we don’t pay our bills (cause), we’ll be kicked out of our home or apartment, our car will be taken away, and our credit score will be damaged (effects). We know that if we don’t eat or drink for several weeks (cause), we’ll die of dehydration or malnutrition (effect).

But can that philosophy be applied to everything, all the time, no exceptions? Was Einstein right when he proclaimed “[God] does not throw dice”?

If this were true, you would have to accept the premises that everything that happens is solely because the gods, fate, or destiny has programmed it into us and our environment. Our every decision or move is known in advance and fits squarely into their overarching “plan”. In this case, God or some other supernatural force would be said to be omniscience – all knowing – and not only does this deity or force know what the future holds, everything in the future unfolds based on what God wants.

Many people are uncomfortable with this notion because it implies that we are all puppets on a string. Our every decision and outcome has been determined in advance and we are simply actors and actresses playing out our assigned role on God’s stage.

However, if we are simply playing out the role which we were assigned, the question becomes “are we to blame for our actions?” Is it fair to punish people for acting in accordance with God’s intention?

In our society, we tend to hold people accountable for their actions. If someone steals, rapes or murders, we’ll give them a trial in court to determine their innocence or guilt, but except in extreme cases, we assume they knew what they were doing when they committed the act and chose to do it anyway. In other words, they were responsible for their actions, and therefore they deserve to be punished accordingly.

(There’s a huge body of philosophical literature that discusses whether we are truly responsible for our own actions – see Wikipedia’s philosophical treatise on free will for an overview.)

On the other hand, if we know that everything is happening because of God’s plan, should we help the poor and those in need? If God has dealt them their hand, shouldn’t they play their cards? Why should anyone step in and give them a hand, put food on the table or give them emotional support? After all, this is how God intended.

Perhaps you could argue that while it’s true that God deals some people a bad hand, he also puts others in their lives to help them with their ordeals and gives them the resources to overcome their situation. This is simply God teaching us a lesson like a father might teach his children. Christians often point to the Book of Job as an example. Still, it’s difficult to comprehend why God would such catastrophic things to happen – like 9/11, the Holocaust, or the myriad of natural disasters ranging from massive tsunamis to volcano eruptions to category 5 hurricanes. Are all of these merely the result of God teaching us a lesson?

With Einstein, we know that as quantum theory developed, most physicists came to disagree with Einstein. Specifically, Niels Bohr and Werner Heisenberg’s theories directly conflicted with Einstein’s. Bohr and Einstein even had intense debates about how particles might pass through a slit in order to prove that there was uncertainty at the quantum level (Einstein disagreed with this, but Bohr’s arguments became the dominant belief).

That said, there are still many things we don’t know about quantum theory. Physicist Stephen Hawking wrote in his book, A Brief History of Time,

“These quantum theories are deterministic in the sense that they give laws for the evolution of the wave with time. Thus if one knows the wave at one time, one can calculate it at any other time. The unpredictable, random element comes in only when we try to interpret the wave in terms of the positions and velocities of particles. But maybe this is our mistake: maybe there are no positions and velocities, but only waves. It is just that we try to fit the waves to our preconceived ideas of positions and velocities. The resulting mismatch is the cause of the apparent unpredictability.”

Still, even if particles acted as waves in all cases, we’d still perceive uncertainty in our lives. If we flip a coin, we know with certainty that it will either land as heads or tails. But the correct answer is a mystery to us until the act has been completed. Much of how we analyze our life is hindsight. Perhaps we know that because we called heads and the coin landed as tails, the other team got the ball first, got early momentum and got an early lead that eventually led to them winning the game. Would we still have played if we knew in advance the other team was going to win?

Chances are, we wouldn’t (just as we like watching the highlights of the big plays after the fact, but few of us actually like sitting through a rerun of a game that has already been played and that we already know the outcome of). Our excitement and enthusiasm comes from our belief that how we play the game shapes the outcome – that our choices matter – that it’s the excitement of playing the game at that moment which is important.

Deuteronomy 30:19 answers“I DO TAKE THE HEAVENS AND EARTH AS WITNESSES AGAINST YOU TODAY THAT I HAVE PUT BEFORE YOU TODAY LIFE AND DEATH,BLESSING AND CURSE AND YOU MUST CHOOSE LIFE THAT YOU MAY KEEP ALIFE”from that BIBLE account you will believe with me that we are free moral agent that decides what our life will be like.Already GOD himself have put these things into motion so whatever we do today we are solely held responsible for our actions

woye77:



In our society, we tend to hold people accountable for their actions. If someone steals, despoils or murders, we’ll give them a trial in court to determine their innocence or guilt, but except in extreme cases, we assume they knew what they were doing when they committed the act and chose to do it anyway. In other words, they were responsible for their actions, and therefore they deserve to be punished accordingly.

You are presuming that the judges themselves have freewill. Maybe just as some people are bound to commit crime, the judges are bound to convict them of crime. Also some people who aren't criminals might be falsely convicted, and some criminals might be let off. This is all because these things were bound to happen and there is no free will anywhere. However it is hard to imagine that we are not free agents that make choices. That is why we consider the issue rather than just accept that our opinion/bias is pre determined.

Every man is a free moral agent, however, when God has a particular purpose to achieve in you, what happens is your decisions, just seem to have a way of falling in line with his purpose even when YOU ABSOLUTELY made those decisions on your own. On the matter of predestination, i personally don't believe it refers to particular individuals PER SE, i think it's more of 'if you go this way, these are the things that will happen, so you can be predestinated once you WILL to follow the path of God.

Knight1:

Every man is a free moral agent, however, when God has a particular purpose to achieve in you, what happens is your decisions, just seem to have a way of falling in line with his purpose even when YOU ABSOLUTELY made those decisions on your own. On the matter of predestination, i personally don't believe it refers to particular individuals PER SE, i think it's more of 'if you go this way, these are the things that will happen, so you can be predestinated once you WILL to follow the path of God.

On what is all this based?

Knight1:

Every man is a free moral agent, however, when God has a particular purpose to achieve in you, what happens is your decisions, just seem to have a way of falling in line with his purpose even when YOU ABSOLUTELY made those decisions on your own. On the matter of predestination, i personally don't believe it refers to particular individuals PER SE, i think it's more of 'if you go this way, these are the things that will happen, so you can be predestinated once you WILL to follow the path of God.

i love this! knight1 9ice one though i believe that just like deuteronomy 30:19 says - if you go in the good way, good things will happen to you, if you go the bad way, bad things will happen to you

I have to open a new thread on the Causes And Attractions of Spurious Reasoning.  It will be very interesting to investigate.

@pastor AIO - i agree with knight1 - we have biblical examples e.g. joseph the dreamer was destined to be prime minister of egypt and it came to pass - Jesus Christ was destined to die for mankind and it came to pass - also Judas was destined to betray Jesus - just like knight1 said

Knight1:

,however, when God has a particular purpose to achieve in you, what happens is your decisions, just seem to have a way of falling in line with his purpose even when YOU ABSOLUTELY made those decisions on your own.

It is obvious that we are giving free will, we can be, we can choose whatever we want, that is why we are held accountable for our actions and in-actions. Why will God give us Law, if He has predestine us to obey it or not to obey it. Then if we are predestine to live our life in a particular way, who else should we hold responsible for all the atrocities, murders, killings, corruptions,  and stealing? God or Man? Evidently, God can not be blamed. 

Plsam 5: 4-6 Says:
"For you are not a God taking delight in wickedness;
No one bad may reside for any time with you.
No boasters may take their stand in front of your eyes.
You do hate all those practicing what is hurtful;
You will destroy those speaking a lie.
A man of bloodshed and deception Jehovah detests."

“Let anyone thirsting come; let anyone that wishes take life’s water free.” (Revelation 22:17)

Bible says anyone wishes not anyone predestine to take life's water.

There are some things which are beyond your control. That is your destiny. Then there are things where you have a choice. That is free-will. If it’s raining outside, it’s your destiny as you have no control over the weather. However, to be wet or remain dry is your free-will.

@pastor AIO
Based on understanding of the scripture and not spurious reason.
Example
1. God predestinated that one of the twelve will betray Jesus, thats a predestinated purpose, however it was not that it had to be Judas, could have been Peter, James, Thomas etc but the choices Judas made i.e love of money that made him the son of perdition
2. Apostle Paul was predestinated to carry the Gospel to the heathen, however left to his choices,he probably would never have come close, what happened? A divine interruption occurred that changed the course of Paul's life.
So we are free moral agents, but at some specific situation where God has something particular to achieve, you decisions will just fall in line or divinity steps in.
Based on Scripture.

Predestination and determinism are not the same thing.
Very few Christian theologians beleive that christianity preaches predistanation.Its simply a construct of Evangelists.

God may have a plan for you,but it does not mean that we are predistined.We can choose not to follow God's plan.The theme of free will is all over the bible.

Therefore pointing out the incompatibility of Freewill and Predestination in Christianity, is a strawman.

there is something that it's happening to an african which cause us to remain stagnant . which is our believe towards life , some believe that we come from above, some believe that a man have being choosing his or her destiny before coming to the world, some funny funny believes and superstitions . we need to ask ourselves is it true that god has destine each humanity if the answer is yes then god should be hold the responsibility of the calamity falling on his creation but the answer is no. god has created every body and leave us to choose our path .destiny is whatever you become not what ever you will be b,cos some people have became mad , premature death and some died in affliction so are you telling me that is there destiny , oh no . what about those who live in all those countries being afflicted by war are they created by the same god of canada that live in peace.

if someone is telling you that god has a purpose for you my brother think twice and do not be brainwashed by so called man of god , be you pastors , alfa, or soothsayer , just believe in yourself and seek the dace of the lord.

easylogic:

Predestination and determinism are not the same thing.
Very few Christian theologians beleive that christianity preaches predistanation.Its simply a construct of Evangelists.

God may have a plan for you,but it does not mean that we are predistined.We can choose not to follow God's plan.The theme of free will is all over the bible.

Therefore pointing out the incompatibility of Freewill and Predestination in Christianity, is a strawman.

The above is false. God boldly asserts in jeremiah 29:11 that He has a plan (predestination) for man.

woye77:

@pastor AIO - i agree with knight1 - we have biblical examples e.g. joseph the dreamer was destined to be prime minister of egypt and it came to pass - Jesus Christ was destined to die for mankind and it came to pass - also Judas was destined to betray Jesus - just like knight1 said

u miss the points by a wide margin.

1. Joseph was not destined to be prime minister. His brothers were only destined to bow to him as depicted in his dream.

2. u also forget, that Jesus had the choice of NOT dying.

3. what u fail to do is to construct a meaningful link between predestination and free-will. . . .they are NOT mutually exclusive.

Knight1:

@pastor AIO
Based on understanding of the scripture and not spurious reason.
Example
1. God predestinated that one of the twelve will betray Jesus, thats a predestinated purpose, however it was not that it had to be Judas, could have been Peter, James, Thomas etc but the choices Judas made i.e love of money that made him the son of perdition

I disagree with your line of argument. can u dispute the fact that Judas was specifically created to betray Jesus. . . . . .such that regardless of his desires, he would still betray Jesus?

2. Apostle Paul was predestinated to carry the Gospel to the heathen, however left to his choices,he probably would never have come close, what happened? A divine interruption occurred that changed the course of Paul's life.
So we are free moral agents, but at some specific situation where God has something particular to achieve, you decisions will just fall in line or divinity steps in.
Based on Scripture.

The above has no scriptural basis. It was not until Paul became a Christian that the Holy spirit asked that he and barnabas be seperated for the Lord's work to the heathen. How then did u come to the conclusion that Paul was predestined for it?
was barnabas predestined to fight paul? was barnabas also predestined to take the gospel to the heathen, why then did he back off?

This is a simple as ABC;
"we are nothing but pencils in the hand of the creator, clay, in the potter's hand, "
una no dey look superstory?

---

Nice post though, but try as much as possible to keep 'em brief, too long might be too booring, lol

@noetic15
there is a link between free will and pre-destination - God gives us free-will but just like knight1 stated, if you are pre-destined to do something, your decisions will fall in line with the will of God - Jesus had a choice of NOT dying just like you stated BUT God knows everything so God already knew HE WOULD choose to die on the cross - so Jesus had the free will not to die, but God knew He would choose to die - as in the case of Judas, God already knew he would make the wrong decision - it wasn't as if he was condemned to betraying Jesus but God had already given him the free will to make his decisions and once he had chosen to betray Jesus, there was nothing God could do to change that since God allows us free-will

@noetic
I believe you know that God has no evil plan for anyone, he has not destined anyone for failure or evil so everybody gets an equal chance. Remember Judas also performed miracles and all that when Jesus sent them two by two, he was not destined to betray Jesus, he chose money over Jesus, exercising his freewill.
As for Paul, immediately after his encounter, you have the following as the scriptural basis

"But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: " (Acts 9:15).

macayub:

It is obvious that we are giving free will, we can be, we can choose whatever we want, that is why we are held accountable for our actions and in-actions. Why will God give us Law, if He has predestine us to obey it or not to obey it. Then if we are predestine to live our life in a particular way, who else should we hold responsible for all the atrocities, murders, killings, corruptions,  and stealing? God or Man? Evidently, God can not be blamed. 

Plsam 5: 4-6 Says:
"For you are not a God taking delight in wickedness;
No one bad may reside for any time with you.
No boasters may take their stand in front of your eyes.
You do hate all those practicing what is hurtful;
You will destroy those speaking a lie.
A man of bloodshed and deception Jehovah detests."

“Let anyone thirsting come; let anyone that wishes take life’s water free.” (Revelation 22:17)

Bible says anyone wishes not anyone predestine to take life's water.

Let me guess, you love the matrix movies, neo, red or blue pill, oracle knowing whether neo wants candy or not blah blah blah.

For starters,i predestination is a bankrupt concept. religious institutions and literature often enjoy or manipulate it cos of screwed up chronology in their records. Old testament writers for example had some predictions or prophesies which mad them celebrity prophets(whose prophecy we are to await in
the new testament,_{see foresight o}), anyone could have predicted anything but the problem with people like isaiah is that they created a problem for new testament writers who attempt so hard to fuse their story along the isaiah template.

Below is an excerpt from Richard Dawkins' THE GOD DELUSION:

The fact that something is written down is persuasive to people not used to asking questions like: 'Who wrote it, and when?' 'How did they know what to write?' 'Did they, in their time, really mean what we, in our time, understand them to be saying?' 'Were they unbiased observers, or did they have an agenda that coloured their writing?' ,

Shouldn't a literalist worry about the fact that Matthew traces Joseph's descent from King David via twenty-eight intermediate generations, while Luke has forty-one generations? Worse, there is almost no overlap in the names on the two lists! In any case, if Jesus really was born of a virgin, Joseph's ancestry is irrelevant and cannot be used to fulfil, on Jesus' behalf, the Old Testament prophecy that the Messiah should be descended from David.

ilosiwaju
I've seen nephews that have to be called uncles, what's the big deal or mystery about that. So they must be 28 to 30 before they can correlate as same generation. Also, don't you know that your mother's husband is your father one way or the other? The Jews knew Jesus from nazareth, son of the carpenter. They were told that the carpenter himself is of royal lineage.
You've got free will to get that in your head.lol

woye77:

@noetic15
there is a link between free will and pre-destination - God gives us free-will but just like knight1 stated, if you are pre-destined to do something, your decisions will fall in line with the will of God - Jesus had a choice of NOT dying just like you stated BUT God knows everything so God already knew HE WOULD choose to die on the cross - so Jesus had the free will not to die, but God knew He would choose to die - as in the case of Judas, God already knew he would make the wrong decision - it wasn't as if he was condemned to betraying Jesus but God had already given him the free will to make his decisions and once he had chosen to betray Jesus, there was nothing God could do to change that since God allows us free-will

1. you have failed to establish any link between predestination and free-will. Jesus lived His life very very very conscious of the things that have been foretold about Him. Jesus did so many things, just so that the word that preceded his birth by thousands of years could be fulfilled. This simple fact IMO establishes the fact that Jesus could have lived a seperate life than the one ordained by God. This is also applicable to every human being.

2. Your understanding of the Judas story is deeply flawed. please re-read John 17:12. is there any way u can prove that Judas could have refused to betray Jesus?

3. The existence of free-will does not negate or contradict predestination. They go hand in hand. take a look at the life of samson. . .he was predestined to liberate israel from their oppressors. . . . .his predestination was announced in form of a prophecy before his birth by an angel. . . . .samson was born when israel was in bondage. . .he died and also left them in bondage.
how do u explain this predestination that did not work out as stated?

Knight1:

@noetic
I believe you know that God has no evil plan for anyone, he has not destined anyone for failure or evil so everybody gets an equal chance. Remember Judas also performed miracles and all that when Jesus sent them two by two, he was not destined to betray Jesus, he chose money over Jesus, exercising his freewill.
As for Paul, immediately after his encounter, you have the following as the scriptural basis

"But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: " (Acts 9:15).

1. depends on what u mean by evil. in Isaiah 14:10, God boldly states that he refines His chosen ones from the furnace of affliction. this shows that 99% of the "afflictions" we go through as believers has the signature of God. . .to prepare u to be the general God called u to be. He also said in psalm 34 that many are the afflictions of the righteous but the Lord delivers Him from them all.

2. whether Judas loved money or not. . , the dude was helpless. Judas was living a life foretold thousands of years before he was born. the inactions of Judas was far beyond Judas. The life of Jesus shows that HE chose carefully every step He took, just to fulfill the word of His father. . . . . . .one can state that there was a spirit from the Lord on Judas that made it inevitable for Judas to betray Jesus.

3. but Paul had the choice of not going. Rome at that time was the world's super-power and had expelled all jews. Paul's going to Rome was a suicide mission. . .just like peters decision to flee the prosecutors until the Lord appeared to him and he turned back to be killed for the sake of the gospel.
The point is that . . . .while predestination is a creed/plan of God, there is the influence of man to determine what can be and what cannot be. . this is called free-will. They go hand in hand and are NOT mutually exclusive.

You guys are all over the place, IMO both concepts really do not make much sense when fused together, my question goes to noetic though-- So Judas had no choice but to betray Jesus, would he still be punished for that?

noetic15:

1. you have failed to establish any link between predestination and free-will. Jesus lived His life very very very conscious of the things that have been foretold about Him. Jesus did so many things, just so that the word that preceded his birth by thousands of years could be fulfilled. This simple fact IMO establishes the fact that Jesus could have lived a seperate life than the one ordained by God. This is also applicable to every human being.

2. Your understanding of the Judas story is deeply flawed. please re-read John 17:12. is there any way u can prove that Judas could have refused to betray Jesus?

3. The existence of free-will does not negate or contradict predestination. They go hand in hand. take a look at the life of samson. . .he was predestined to liberate israel from their oppressors. . . . .his predestination was announced in form of a prophecy before his birth by an angel. . . . .samson was born when israel was in bondage. . .he died and also left them in bondage.
how do u explain this predestination that did not work out as stated?

@noetic - i think we are both in agreement on the fact that free will and pre-destination go hand in hand though you seem to have missed my point concerning the issue of Judas and Jesus - according to John 17:12, it had to be someone but it wasn't compulsory that the "one" had to be Judas - Judas nominated himself for the role through his love for money. it could have been any of the twelve disciples but the devil could only find an ally in Judas that was why he (devil) used him

in the case of Jesus, he was aware of the prophecy that was foretold before he was born but he WAS NOT FORCED by God to follow the path of the prophecy. He could have chosen to go His own way but He deliberately choose to follow God's path for his life - God knew He (Jesus) would fulfil His mission on earth that was why He said 'this is my son, in whom i am well pleased' - The baptism of Jesus was to prepare Him for the task he was to fulfil

In the case of Samson, he fulfiled the will of God for his life because he managed to kill the philistines, he didn't leave Israel in bondage - Samson made mistakes but God still used him to fulfil his mssion

Also pls note afflictions are not from God -they are from the devil but sometimes God may choose to ALLOW (please note the word "allow" them in order to achieve a particular purpose e.g. allowing Jesus to be hanged on the cross

Chrisbenogor:

You guys are all over the place, IMO both concepts really do not make much sense when fused together, my question goes to noetic though-- So Judas had no choice but to betray Jesus, would he still be punished for that?

I am not the owner of heaven or hell, . neither do I preside over the judgement of men. . . .as such I CANNOT tell.

noetic15:

I am not the owner of heaven or hell, . neither do I preside over the judgement of men. . . .as such I CANNOT tell.

Neotic and his endless escapism

woye77:

@noetic - i think we are both in agreement on the fact that free will and pre-destination go hand in hand though you seem to have missed my point concerning the issue of Judas and Jesus - according to John 17:12, it had to be someone but it wasn't compulsory that the "one" had to be Judas - Judas nominated himself for the role through his love for money. it could have been any of the twelve disciples but the devil could only find an ally in Judas that was why he (devil) used him

ok.

in the case of Jesus, he was aware of the prophecy that was foretold before he was born but he WAS NOT FORCED by God to follow the path of the prophecy. He could have chosen to go His own way but He deliberately choose to follow God's path for his life - God knew He (Jesus) would fulfil His mission on earth that was why He said 'this is my son, in whom i am well pleased' - The baptism of Jesus was to prepare Him for the task he was to fulfil

with or without the baptism . . . . Jesus could still have done as He pleased. u cannot excuse free-will on the premise of predestination. Just like there was a voice at the baptism of Jesus. . . the same voice has been speaking in the life of millions of believers daily. . .but many choose to go after their own flesh and do things of their own knowledge that contradicts God's will and purpose for them.

In the case of Samson, he fulfiled the will of God for his life because he managed to kill the philistines, he didn't leave Israel in bondage - Samson made mistakes but God still used him to fulfil his mssion

was the will/prophecy of God for samson just to kill philistines or to liberate his people? ,  . .was israel liberated after the death of samson? did the influence of the philistines diminish?

Also pls note afflictions are not from God -they are from the devil but sometimes God may choose to ALLOW (please note the word "allow" them in order to achieve a particular purpose e.g. allowing Jesus to be hanged on the cross

Nope. . . . this is called biblical ignorance.

If u saw my last post . . , I used two key words "Affliction" (which was in quote) and believers

1. Jesus said that the hair on the head of the believers are numbered, He also said that blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness sake, And apostle Paul said that all things work together for good for those who love the Lord. This implies that by spiritual cognizance a TRUE xtian is immune from demonic or satanic attacks. but these attacks do happen with the seal of APPROVAL from God,  to strengthen believers,  .it also explains the establishment of victory in all of such battles from the word of the Lord. The case of Job would make a good case study.

2. I specifically used the word believers in my last post to signify their spiritual ownership as not of the devil but of God.

3. I specifically put the word Affliction in quotation marks to exclude man made and self inflicted afflictions.

4. It was God's will that Jesus be beaten badly that millions of future believers would be healed by His stripe. It was God's will that the church be afflicted with persecution and deaths to put to test the faith of believers.

5. God is the Lord of hosts. and that includes the hosts of Heaven and Hell. . .the hosts of darkness and light.

toneyb:

Neotic and his endless escapism

ok . . . to hit the nail on the head. . .Judas is condemned. For it is written that whosoever through whom the prophecy is fulfilled is condemned. That probably explains why Jesus did not pray for Judas.

Let me ask the following questions

A. when David had 2 close opportunities to kill Saul but refused to, was that predestination? considering that NOTHING stopped David from killing Saul, but the fear of the Lord and his concern that Saul carried God's anointing?

B. When Saul went to war against the amakelites as commanded by the Lord and he refused to destroy all that was in that Land as God had promised/predestined thousand of years earlier. . . was Saul's inaction the will of God?

C. when Gabriel visited Zacharai in the temple and prophesied the birth of John the baptist. was it the will of God that Zacharai did not believe? was it the predestination of God that Gabriel makes him dumb?

D. the many kings of Israel who ignored the words of the prophets during their days as recorded in the 4 books of kings and chronicles . . . .was their inaction a predestination, considering that God gave them His law to follow and sent His prophets to call them to repentance and warn them of the consequences of their inactions?

God has a will/plan called predestination . . . but He  is calling all men to SUBMIT to his plan . ,  , cos the very end of His plan is peace.
The choice of submiting or ignoring this plan is called FREE-WILL

1. The plan/predestination of God is that all men do not die sinners but die redeemed by the lamb. For this reason He sent Jesus. . . .the life Jesus lived showed that He willingly and CONSCIOUSLY SUBMITTED Himself to the will/predestination of the father even till the point of death. .  .this suggests that He could have done otherwise had He chosen to. Jesus exercised FREE-WILL to do the will/predestination of the father.

2. The predestination of God is that all men are redeemed. to this effect an invitation was sent out to all men 2000 years ago to be saved. men were told the predestination of God but were also asked to exercise their FREE-WILL. many accepted the gospel, others ignored the gospel, many others rejected the gospel.

3. The likes of prophets Jeremiah and Isaiah suffered a great deal by virtue of FREE-WILL just in order to bring the predestination/will of God to pass. Jeremiah was imprisoned on several occasions while also loosing his loved ones. . . just so that the work of God might continue. . . . . and Isaiah had to walk naked for three years in Egypt and Ethiopia just so that the will/predestination of God be done (Isaiah 20:3). These men exercised their FREE WILL by SUBMITING themselves to the will of the father.

4. apostle Paul comes to mind. There is no record of him marrying. . . . . .his many persecution and eventual decision to preach the gospel in Rome, which was at that time a super power, was a suicide mission denoted as FREE WILL in submission to the predestination/plan of God.

Submissively. . . . . . .PREDESTINATION is the plan and counsel of God as depicted in his will and spoken often times as prophecy. Man's decision to play his role in this plan (either in SUBMISSION or REBELLION to God's plan) is called FREE WILL.
PREDESTINATION and FREE-WILL go hand in hand.

noetic16:

Submissively. . . . . . .PREDESTINATION is the plan and counsel of God as depicted in his will and spoken often times as prophecy. Man's decision to play his role in this plan (either in SUBMISSION or REBELLION to God's plan) is called FREE WILL.
PREDESTINATION and FREE-WILL go hand in hand.

@noetic - seems a  lot of people including myself have said the same thing you are saying - i perfectly agree with the above comments - some people choose to go against the will of God and they end up falling by the way side since God will not force us to do His will, so that is where FREE WILL comes in - a good example was Saul who lost his kingship because he refused to follow the path laid down for him by God BUT sometimes your free will fall in-line with predestination if God has a special purpose to fulfil in your life e.g. Joseph (the dreamer)'s decision fell in line with God's plan for his life (2) Jesus' free will fell in line with God's pre-destined purpose for His life (3) Abraham pre-destined to be father of all nations BUT just in case the devil is trying to derail such an individual from fulfiling his purpose, God will STEP IN to bring the person in line e.g. Jonah who was swallowed by a shark and another good example is Paul

knight1 put it perfecty when he said

Knight1:


2. Apostle Paul was predestinated to carry the Gospel to the heathen, however left to his choices,he probably would never have come close, what happened? A divine interruption occurred that changed the course of Paul's life.
So we are free moral agents, but at some specific situation where God has something particular to achieve, you decisions will just fall in line or divinity steps in.
Based on Scripture.

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