Vokog:
I would like to preface the body of my post with this caveat: I am not a Muslim. In fact, I am an atheist, and I have been an atheist for two years, and I am still am atheist. I was formally christian and I have no affiliation with Islam whatsoever. The only affiliation I have with Islam, is that the people who subscribe to it are humans like myself, and as such, they don't deserve to be smeared, stereotyped, and painted in a negative light, to further an agenda. That's essentially why I decided to create this thread - To disillusion people from the lies that they have been made to believe about Islam and about terrorism.

I am not going to bore anyone with a long op. What I'd do however, is that I will allow anyone who wants contribute to air their own arguments about why they think the premise of my post is wrong, or why they think Islamic terrorism is an inherently Islamic phenomenon and I'll refute EVERY argument.

Mods, please don't move this to the Muslim section. It would defeat its purpose.

Kathmandu:
Go and tell those in Chibok that they are killed daily by armed robbers and not Islamic terrorist.



I think you need to find something doing with your time instead of deceiving yourself here

Kathmandu:
Go and tell those in Chibok that they are killed daily by armed robbers and not Islamic terrorist.


I think you need to find something doing with your time instead of deceiving yourself here

randomperson:
Seriously, there is Islamic terrorism. The first step in solving a problem is identifying that the problem exists.

felixomor:

Exactly.
LOL

Vokog:


Why are you reaffirming what she said? Again, I never said terrorism doesn't exist, what I said was that Islamic terrorism doesn't exist. Meaning that the predominant perception of terrorism as being orchestrated by people within Islam, who want to make erect a global caliphate, through global Jihad, is demonstrably untrue.

felixomor:


And the "proof" you are offering us are those your 2 typewritten paragraphs ba?
I thought maybe u wanted to show us American CIA documents or something of sort.
Issokay

Vokog:


I never said I was going to just post proof and dazzle everyone. I said, explicitly, that I wasn't going to bore anyone with data. I could do that if I wanted, but that would just be boring. However, what I rightly said I was going to do, was to have a debate with people who hold your kind of views. They'd present their arguments and I'll disprove them. And since the inception of this thread, no one has presented any valid argument. Just vitrols and screaming.

Vokog:


I never said terrorism doesn't exist. I said the belief that it's an Islamic phenomenon is what's not true. Meaning, the belief that it's a Jihadist movement that originated within Islam and is supported by the Islamic society, is what's not true.

You've not made any reasonable argument here. All you just did was yell at me.

felixomor:


"I want to prove"
That was your headline.

Where is the proof?
Or you ran out of fuel?

Vokog:


Do you have a reading problem?

There are various ways to prove a proposition. One can do it by just laying out factual data, or one can do it through debate. I opted for the later, which I just explained to you in detail in my previous post.

My goal is to understand the actual views of people who believe Islamic terrorism is an inherently Islamic phenomenon, conceptualized by muslims ans supoorted by muslims, and why they hold these views, and then I'll prove to them that their views are wrong. This is because these kind of views are varied. It's easier to engage with them separately than just doling out data.

Vokog:


Do you have a reading problem?

There are various ways to prove a proposition. One can do it by just laying out factual data, or one can do it through debate. I opted for the later, which I just explained to you in detail in my previous post.

My goal is to understand the actual views of people who believe Islamic terrorism is an inherently Islamic phenomenon, conceptualized by muslims ans supoorted by muslims, and why they hold these views, and then I'll prove to them that their views are wrong. This is because these kind of views are varied. It's easier to engage with them separately than just doling out data.

aminusanti:

My friend waste no time on this confused clown felixomor , he is well known for derailing thread here on NL

Kathmandu:
You still ended up saying Nothing.


You call yourself an atheist and you are trying to prpve Islamic terrorist who are vast in the Quran and use it as a basis for their actions.



Are you more knowledgeable in Islam than Osama bin Laden the Muslim terrorist.



Go and engage yourself in a meaningful thing biko

Vokog:


I never said terrorism doesn't exist. I said the belief that it's an Islamic phenomenon is what's not true. Meaning, the belief that it's a Jihadist movement that originated within Islam and is supported by the Islamic society, is what's not true.

You've not made any reasonable argument here. All you just did was yell at me.

analice107:

I hope you know they kill atheists just like they homosexuals? I pray they catch up with you.

Vokog:


I never said terrorism doesn't exist. I said the belief that it's an Islamic phenomenon is what's not true. Meaning, the belief that it's a Jihadist movement that originated within Islam and is supported by the Islamic society, is what's not true.

You've not made any reasonable argument here. All you just did was yell at me.

Vokog:


What does being "vast in the Quran" even mean?

Anyway, you raised some arguments, so I'll address them. You claimed that the Islamic terrorists use the Quran to justify their actions. Now, does that mean the Quran is what motivates them to do what they do? If that's the case, then why isn't every Muslim in the world committing acts of terrorism? I mean, if according to you the Quran rightly states that killing innocent people is the best way to serve Allah, and convert people to Islam, why isn't every Muslim doing it?

And I want to ask you a question. Do you have even the slightest knowledge of the inception of Islamic terrorism? Do you know the factors that led to it's rise and growth? Could you lay them out to me?

Anyone can commit any action and justify this action with anything. It doesn't mean that this thing is what drove them to commit that action. Rather, the pattern of result of an action and results of consecutive similar actions, is a more reliable way of judging intent and motivation. Have you ever asked yourself why people who claim to be terrorists trying to expand the Islamic faith are actively killing the members of their own faith than they kill so called infidels?

It's a good thing you mentioned Osama bin Ladin. Now let me ask you a question, why did Osama Bin Laden attack the United States in 2001? Could you explain what his reason was? Now, what's the result of his so called terrorist attack? I'll tell you - The result of the Osama's attack on the world trade center and the Pentagon, was the invasion of Afghanistan and the destabilization of their government and the murder of millions of innocent lives, despite the Afghan government explicitly asking the United states to give them permission to extradite Osama and his sect, to which the US refused. Another result of this attack was the creation of the Taliban in Afghanistan from the power vacuum left by the United States. Bearing in mind that the Taliban was originally the mujahideen which the US used to oppose the Soviet forces during the Soveit-Afghan war?

I'll also like to add that Osama bin Laden was fighting along side the United states supported Mujahideen during the Soviet -Afghan war and there are claims that Osama's sect was also supported by the CIA. These claims haven't been proven to be completely factual however. But the fact that Osama fighted along side the Mujahideen is incontrovertibly true.

Kathmandu:
He has not left his pram before that's why he is talking nonsense

rhektor:
.


Probably you have not watched any of the Alqaeda videos, ISIS videos or Bokoharam videos. If you have you wouldn't come here and open a thread to disgrace yourself. Please when next you think of opening a thread be sure of what you want to talk (write) about. You should also be ready to present prove. Until then maybe you should take a bow

Vokog:


Lol. You should read my reply to Kathmandu and I hope you respond to it. The fact that a group of people claim something to be a motivation for their actions doesn't mean that thing is the actual motivation for their actions. Could you explain why these people, these so called warriors of Allah, are killing more of Allah's people than they are killing infidels? Could you also explain why it's just a particular sect of people who are committing these crimes? I mean, if they are inspired by the same book that every other Muslim reads, why isn't every other Muslim killing people? Could you also explain why these terrorist organizations originated within similar circumstances? Doesn't it seem odd that the results of terrorism only lead to 4 things of which the spread of Islam is definitely not among this.
1. The destabilization of the government they are in.
2. Foreign Intervention and occupation of that country by western forces, particularly the United States, who then act in their financial and economic interests.
3. The killing of more people and immeseration of more lives in these countries by actions of so called terrorists and foreign forces.
4. The stereotyping of Muslims in foreign countries and the promotion of fear among the general population that is then exploited by the government to encroach on the freedom of it's masses. I'll give a striking example. On Sunday after the London bridge terrorist attacks, the British prime minister, gave a speech which she emphasized the censoring of the internet as a means to curtail the actions of terrorists.

Does you guys think? How is Islamic terrorism advancing the supposed goals of the terrorists? It's clearly doing the opposite.

Vokog:


Lol. You should read my reply to Kathmandu and I hope you respond to it. The fact that a group of people claim something to be a motivation for their actions doesn't mean that thing is the actual motivation for their actions. Could you explain why these people, these so called warriors of Allah, are killing more of Allah's people than they are killing infidels? Could you also explain why it's just a particular sect of people who are committing these crimes? I mean, if they are inspired by the same book that every other Muslim reads, why isn't every other Muslim killing people? Could you also explain why these terrorist organizations originated within similar circumstances? Doesn't it seem odd that the results of terrorism only lead to 4 things of which the spread of Islam is definitely not included.
1. The destabilization of the government they are operate in.
2. Foreign Intervention and occupation of that country by western forces, particularly the United States, who then act in their financial and economic interests.
3. The killing of more people and immeseration of more lives in these countries by actions of so called terrorists and foreign forces.
4. The stereotyping of Muslims in foreign countries and the promotion of fear among the general population that is then exploited by the government to encroach on the freedom of it's masses. I'll give a striking example. On Sunday after the London bridge terrorist attacks, the British prime minister, gave a speech which she emphasized the censoring of the internet as a means to curtail the actions of terrorists.

Don't you guys think? How is Islamic terrorism advancing the supposed goals of the terrorists? It's clearly doing the opposite.

analice107:

The guy is a joke anyways. If he were indeed an atheist, he won't be here defending Islam which enjoins muslims to kill all the disbelievers especially people like him) in Allah the blood sucker.

rhektor:


The question is did the terrorists use the same book as a justification for their actions? How much of this religion did you even know? If Taliban were a USA tool to fight Russia so whose tool is Bokoharam, Alshabab etc and who were they used to fight against?

analice107:

The guy is a joke anyways. If he were indeed an atheist, he won't be here defending Islam which enjoins muslims to kill all the disbelievers especially people like him) in Allah the blood sucker.

Vokog:


Well, I know quite a lot about the religion and about other religions. I have read about the history of the Islamic world and other parts of the world. I know terrorism is only a very recent phenomenon within Islam, which arose within curious circumstances. And I know various religions can be used as an excuse for any malicious action. The western roman empire used Christianity and the bible as an excuse for the crusades, which was clearly a political movement. That doesn't mean Christianity supports killing of innocent people or that Christians are bad.

Ehm, last time I checked, Boko haram amd Alshabab swore allegiance to ISIS and Al Qaeda. This proves they are cut from the same cloth. I invite you to read about terrorist attacks in various countries and examine the result of the attacks and the effect they have on the political and economic balance of the state. Also examine the immediate actions of western governments and corporations in their efforts to "ease" and "curb" the unrest. Have you asked yourself who is sponsoring boko-haram? Where they are getting their sophisticated weapons from? We all have brains. Let's use it.