This is an issue no religionist has been able to effectively tackle. Instead you hear stuffs like:
a. Suffering makes us stronger.
b. God is punishing us.
c. God wants us to know he is the all-powerful.

Come in with your scriptures and your stories of Job etc and lets slice this thing.

We suffer mostly because of sin against one another and against God. That does not explain natural disasters and diseases but maybe those are just nature doing what it is supposed to do. God knows best.

So how do you explain the death of innocent children(toddlers, infants etc)? They sinned too? How about still births? Children born slowpoke and so on?
how?,

I can't explain everything and I don't think one of the conditions of being a Christian is that one must have an explanation for everything. Maybe we can do more to ease the suffering of innocent children and we do not. Maybe some of their suffering is as a result of the sins of others who neglect their situation. I'm just stating my opinion because i don't think anyone can give you an answer that will satisfy you.

We suffer because god loves it. What god is doing is no different to me playing my ps3 game and shooting and blowing houses,cars,pple of. This live is gods game he plays as he likes.

@OP: Please before I make my response, I need to be certain:

What does it mean to suffer? What does it entail?

Personally I believe to suffer means to be at a disadvantage, so what exactly is the yardstick that we all have to consider before declaring a human being as one of those that are "suffering"?

If you see or hear a suffering person, how can you really tell? Is it by comparing them to yourself or to their possible potential (which would require an all-encompassing insight, possibly beyond human understanding)?

Is it a statistical evaluation - the minority are the ones that are suffering (quantitative evaluation) - or is it those that feel that they have an inferior experience with respect to other human beings (qualitative evaluation)? How exactly do we classify someone as suffering, with respect to the experience of other human beings?

If you answer this question, then maybe I will be able to define my perspectives about people that are suffering.

Regards

Maven (that's just a nickname, by the way )

*crickets *

Please does anyone with any worldview have any answer to my questions above?

The meaning of suffering has changed over the centuries, indeed so have most words in most languages. I understand Suffer to originally have meant to undergo. In other words to be a passive experiencer of an event. If I am not happy to hear a fo.ol speak I can say "I will not suffer this fo.ol gladly'.

Nowadays rather than just mean to undergo an event it means more specifically to undergo an unpleasant event. Just like the word 'want' in english once meant the most abject deprivation, nowadays it simply means to desire. Although I have heard it been used in the old sense in open conversation. Like, 'that guy really wants money', or 'that guy is in want of money'. They were saying that the guy's financial situation was desperate not that he was greedily looking for money.

This is the sense in which the first line of the 23rd psalm should be understood, and not that it is a sin to want things. But I digress. . . . .


@Mavenbox, I don't know about measurements or evaluations of suffering. There are many various factors involved in the mind state of someone undergoing 'disadvantage'. For instance, a major factor influencing mind state is Meaning and/or a sense of purpose in life.

Imagine 2 people thrown into a cold dark dungeon. One because he was preaching the gospel and the other who just got pick off the street and thrown in. The latter guy protested his innocence and told the guards that they'd got the wrong man but to no avail. Who do you think will suffer more?

It is one thing to suffer meaningfully, and another thing to suffer for nothing. In fact we 9jas like to yab people that they will suffer for nothing. 'see you, you will just suffer for nothing'. So we recognise that meaningless suffering is a hell of a lot worse than suffering for a cause.

In fact meaning is necessary to underpin every experience in life otherwise that experience becomes suffering. The billionaire who enjoys every 'pleasure' that money can buy yet feels his life doesn't mean anything will experience his 'enjoyments' as a tedium and with weariness.

If you've ever experienced heart break before you'll know that without that sense of meaning even the sweetest soup will become tasteless. It actually affects your taste buds so that you don't taste the sweetness.

Wow! Pastor AIO, it's like you sneaked a peek into my mind!!! It was a rhetoric question to Ilosiwaju and others who share his question, to make him/them weigh the various meanings that suffering represents as a part of the human experience.

Suffer truly simply means to "experience", so whether you like it or not, we all suffer but maybe at varying degrees and to varying purposes in various aspects of life!

Life is all about choices and decisions, and for every choice you make, there will be an attached "suffering" for making that choice, and a "suffering" for not making an alternate choice! So asking why we suffer is like asking why human beings have the ability to make choices that define their experience.

Without choices, we have no use for our minds because we would be anoetic beings. With various choices, there will be various experiences. With various experiences, there will be various degrees of suffering related to what you have forgone and what you have chosen to cling to.

ilosiwaju:

So how do you explain the death of innocent children(toddlers, infants etc)? They sinned too? How about still births? Children born slowpoke and so on?
how?,

On the other hand, one may ask about babies. Do they make choices too? Some choices are made for them, ranging from fertilization to gestation to childbirth (so sufferings like congenital disorders are defined experiences thanks to the parental choices), but from that point of birth onwards, the child makes its own choices, no matter how subtle they are, from breathing to interacting with its environment.

Ecc 9:11 I returned and saw under the sun that the race is not to the swift nor the battle to the strong, neither is bread to the wise nor riches to men of intelligence and understanding nor favor to men of skill; but time and chance happen to them all. [Ps. 33:16-19; Rom. 9:16.]

Time and chance happen to them all.

Sufferings are not from God ,All manner of sufferings are of the devil, thats why jesus came to take away our sufferings.

John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

1 John 3:8
, For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

People suffer for their ignorance now because Jesus has defeated the devil for us. The knowledge of thruth makes a man free when he embraces such.

Hosea 4:6
, My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee,,

When a man understand the authorty he has in christ and excercise it , the devil flees

The first step is to be born again, recieve the holy spirit and learn from the word how to take a stand against the enemy

James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

How ever there are some sufferings prayers will not prevent. That is the suffering of persecution,it is a proof of our love for God

.
2 Tim. 3:12
Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

Everyone who makes a post on this thread, or reads any post on this thread, will SUFFER the consequences. anyone who does neither will also suffer the consequences. A word is sufficient for the wise.

Mavenb0x:

Everyone who makes a post on this thread, or reads any post on this thread, will SUFFER the consequences. anyone who does neither will also suffer the consequences. A word is sufficient for the wise.

Ur post can sometimes be scary and confusing pls espantiate. Thks

Mavenb0x:

Everyone who makes a post on this thread, or reads any post on this thread, will SUFFER the consequences. Anyone who does neither will also suffer the consequences. A word is sufficient for the wise.

toba:

your post can sometimes be scary and confusing pls espantiate. Thks

@Toba: LOL Im sorry about that. Let me expatiate.

First of all, you are a Christian, and one thing about me is that I speak to various people in different ways depending on their worldview, so I will explain to you using the scriptures. I am not (anymore) in the habit of quoting content from other religions/ worldviews to backup my posts, and since the OP is not a Christian, I can only make logical deductions that he will need to ruminate over, and I will hope he sees the answers while he considers it all.

This scripture from Job differentiates between the experiences of mankind due to divinely informed counsel, and the results of obedience and disobedience!

Job 36:10 He openeth also their ear to discipline, and commandeth that they return from iniquity.
Job 36:11 If they obey and serve him, they shall spend their days in prosperity, and their years in pleasures.
Job 36:12 But if they obey not, they shall perish by the sword, and they shall die without knowledge.

And this scripture from Hosea shows what happens when people do not have knowledge (an adequately informed holistic view)

Hos 4:6 My people are ruined because they don't know what's right or true. Because you've turned your back on knowledge, I've turned my back on you priests. Because you refuse to recognize the revelation of God, I'm no longer recognizing your children.

Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge; because you [the priestly nation] have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you that you shall be no priest to Me; seeing you have forgotten the law of your God, I will also forget your children.

My point is that "suffering" just means "experiencing", and people suffer because of their own choices, or because of other people's choices that are affecting them. From the Bible, if the counsel of God is received and diligently followed, one will not suffer. Unfortunately, many people, Christians inclusive, sometimes ignore God's counsel and do their own thing. when that happens, God in his mercies will make the process as painless as possible, but he will not perform magic because justice and judgment must be meted out fairly. God forgives, but it's like a wound that heals, when it heals the scar may remain for some days or weeks before it blends and disappears. To make the wound heal faster, you need to add methylated spirit and other things that will make the sore more painful. But God is applying those things to make your suffering less!

As someone once said, there are 2 people on earth. Those that say to God, "Lord, Your will be done" and those that God tells "Alright, have it your way".

Like a cancer, missing counsel wont kill immediately, but it will eventually become obvious, and then the person will wonder what they did wrong. THAT is judgment, judgment simply means "where you get to as a result of where you are coming from", and that's how people suffer. Judgment is not ONLY the "last day" stuff. e.g. if I walk slowly in a straight line across a very busy and wide "express road", will I not get knocked down by a vehicle eventually? That is judgment. If I jump from the 10th floor of my office building and I die downstairs, that is the judgment for that action. Suffering is the judgment for poorly counselled actions and inactions.

When I said the "scary stuff" above, I just meant that every second of our lives, we keep seeing information, we keep having experiences, where we can learn wisdom. Some on Nairaland, some in our daily activities. Some of us ignore them, some of us increase our wisdom by learning and applying them, some of us attack the information and discredit it so that others will not believe it (but as hypocrites, deep in our hearts we understand and apply them), some of us teach others, some of us hold on to the little we have and refuse to disperse wisdom; and as a consequence of all these actions, people will keep suffering one way or the other.

Dan 12:3 "'Men and women who have lived wisely and well will shine brilliantly, like the cloudless, star-strewn night skies. And those who put others on the right path to life will glow like stars forever.

I hope you understand now, sir Toba?

Mavenb0x:

@Toba: LOL Im sorry about that. Let me expatiate.
Suffering is the judgment for poorly counselled actions and inactions.


I hope you understand now, sir Toba?

Thks my sister im relieved now

hi miss maven! can you now see why i personally dont want you to leave NL?  i love u(on nairaland, that is  )
My definition of suffering is actually the terrible things people go through undeservedly. If i visit a 12-year old girl around 10pm telling her father i really love her and in the process they release bingo and he gives me a god biting, thats deserved! but on the other hand, why should people die of hunger in Africa for example when American farmers are paid to destroy some of their produce?
Examine the holocaust, what's your take? 6 million people(including infants and toddlers) sinned and deserved to be punished? as a matter of fact, were jews not supposed to be God's chosen people? If a german can kill like 6million of your people i wonder what becomes of blacks like us(though God created everyone anyway).
talk to me maven.

@ilosiwaju:

If i visit a 12-year old girl around 10pm telling her father i really love her and in the process they release bingo and he gives me a god biting, thats deserved!

In this case, you have suffered because of your action of intruding into the mans privacy to "molest" his daughter, howbeit not physically, but you are making light of his protection over his daughter. Yes, its deserved, and it's your fault

but on the other hand, why should people die of hunger in Africa for example when American farmers are paid to destroy some of their produce?

Yes, unfortunately people not only suffer for the sake of their own misguided actions and inactions, they also suffer because of other people's misguided actions and inactions. I don't know about Americans destroying African farms though. Do you have any evidence to produce on that, sir?

Examine the holocaust, what's your take? 6 million people(including infants and toddlers) sinned and deserved to be punished? as a matter of fact, were jews not supposed to be God's chosen people? If a german can kill like 6million of your people i wonder what becomes of blacks like us(though God created everyone anyway).
talk to me maven.

Once again, I said, people suffer for other people's misguided actions and inactions. There were Jews who survived the holocaust, and for various reasons, but I want you to consider the fact that there were people who received divine insight into means of escaping the Gestapo, and they survived all the same.

Furthermore, you refer to the death of the chosen ones. Do you know how brave warriors that died in war, are awarded medals in post-mortem in the army? It is far more glorious in the case of God's chosen people. It is even better to be away from here than to be here, but yes, it is a painful process (in most cases) and also we love to stay because we are on assignment here.

If I get a clear message tonight from God that my assignment on earth is done, I would gladly rejoice and leave for heaven. There's nothing here on earth! I hope your questions are answered, sir.

Regards,

Emi nikan.

Maven. i did not say Americans destroyed African farms. I was just comparing hunger in Africa for example with the 1930 or 33 issue of american farmers paid to destroy crops. I dont mean it as a current trend ma.
kingani?