LightandDarkness:


Yes. Every DNA base contains nitrogen atoms, so stating some parts of DNA are nitrogenous while others are not is false because DNA cannot be DNA without nitrogen

CatfishBilly:

I've dropped the Templeton foundation/Harvard prayer experiment, from which I came to the conclusion that prayers are futile in the face of an incompetent doctor.

You still haven't answered the question.

spacetacular:

What kind of God would he be if we were able to say just the right words or preform just the right action that would somehow get God’s attention and thus getting a desired result?

JackBizzle:
This thread is for Christians who are scientists, whether they are doctors, lab assistants, technicians, engineers etc.

HOW DO YOU BALANCE YOUR RELIGION WITH SCIENCE? THIS IS VECAUSE THEY CAN BE POLAR OPPOSITE AT TIMES.

JUST LOOK AT THESE QUESTIONS

1. As a biologist, how do you explain Jesus rising from the dead, when you know that a dead body can't rise again especially after 3 days?


2. Where does Jesus's other set of chromosomes come from if Joseph is not his father (no biological father)


3. As a geologist, wouldn't there be earth or soil under any body of water? Then how could God in genesis claim to have floated over deep waters and created the earth?

4. How do you reconcile pastors healing diseases with no cure? How can someone be healed of Aids, Ebola etc?

5. How can an astrophysicist look at the vast emptiness of outer space and agree that a great omniscient God created such a waste?

spacetacular:


And I have shown you that Prayer cannot be experimented upon. So the Templeton foundation prayer experiment isn't evidence as its impersonal to you. Below is an analysis of the experiment.

"The problem with the Templeton prayer study was based in the hypothesis itself: if we pray for someone then God will intervene in some supernatural way to restore a person’s health. No doubt this is a wonderful concept, but it eliminates the truth about the subject being studied. In the same way that the Prosperity Gospel cult has undercut the basis of Christian belief, this study is based on a lie. Somehow people have come up with this idea that if we ask for something then we can obligate God to deliver.

What kind of God would he be if we were able to say just the right words or preform just the right action that would somehow get God’s attention and thus getting a desired result? This concept makes God not God at all, but rather some cosmic vending machine or light switch

In John chapter 3 Jesus describes to a religious leader, Nicodemus, the nature and action of God. “The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going.” This makes the scientific study more akin to the study of psychology. If God is a volitional being, then we cannot expect that God will perform based on a regular standard and without fail.

In essence this study was not about prayer at all, but about the effect of positive words and their impact on a person’s health.

This is not to deny the power that abides in prayer, but it does stand in the face of a fallacy. Prayer is not about getting our goodies from God, but it is about trusting God to do what is best. It is about building a relationship and leaning on the truth that comes from that relationship.

This study would be just as flawed if it were conducted on child-parent relationships and we expected that the child would receive everything she asked her parents for. No doubt we would think very poorly of a parent who did that and it would be no stretch to expect that the child would be a lazy, fat brat. No doubt we would be in quite a big mess if God also fulfilled every request to our liking. It frankly gives me much satisfaction that this study was a failure, because it strengthens my trust in a God that cannot be contained".

So you see what you say drew you away from God drew another to God in a much stronger way.

Carefully read the observation again.

hopefulLandlord:


that would tally totally with what Jesus said many times in the new testament but reality made you think such would be absurd, you're tailoring it with reality in order to make some sense out of it

eg, what if every Christian with faith gets everything they ask for in prayer? what if that's how reality is? would you turn around and talk about how its not supposed to be like that and your god is a vending machine?

CatfishBilly:

Jesus actually presented himself as a cosmic vending machine.
The new testament is littered with passages to that effect.
Unless you're choosing not to look at it from that angle, then that would firmly be your choice, not what the scriptures say.

spacetacular:


Sorry that was not what Jesus implied. Jesus focused on RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD!

Build it, Love Him, Trust Him, Desire HIS will, Be Led by HIS Spirit etc. Prayer should come from that relationship.

In the Lords Prayer notice it began with WORDS OF RELATIONSHIP.

" Our Father which art in Heaven, Hallowed be they name "

Then it moved to trusting God and His will.

" Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven"

Those preceded personal needs and desires.

"Give us this day our daily bread..... "

The focus of Jesus in Prayer was on RELATIONSHIP.

spacetacular:


Read above.

hopefulLandlord:

And Jesus answered and said to them, “Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, `Be taken up and cast into the sea,’ it will happen. “And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive.” (Matthew 21:21-22)

Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst. (Matthew 18:19-20)

Amen, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it shall be done for him. Therefore I tell you, all that you ask for in prayer, believe that you will receive it and it shall be yours. (Mark 11:24-25)

And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it. (John 14:13-14)

With all these passages claiming that if they have even the smallest amount of faith (Matthew 17:20 For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.)then whatever you ask for in prayer will be granted

the above verses are very clear, what you are doing now is adding some condition and even saying it won't be right if those verses were true cuz it would make your god a vending machine

I'm now asking if you're in an alternate universe where everything Christians ask for comes to pass as said in the above verses, would you think it shouldn't be like that? would you therefore regard your god as vending machine or some stupid parent like you errr the author did in your copied post?

spacetacular:


Sorry but you are putting the cart before the horse.

The Disciples asked him to teach them how to pray and he deliberately worded THE LORDS PRAYER that way so they would know the FOUNDATION of prayer.

Faith isn't the foundation. The foundation is relationship. This is why the Bible says FAITH WITHOUT WORKS (RELATIONSHIP) IS DEAD!

what are the works or relationship? How can I say I love God whom I have not seen when I do not love the people I see.

What are the works or relationship? 1st Corinthians 13 Vs 1- 8

If I speak in the tongues[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,[b] but do not have love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

There are so many to point at but the summary of them all is RELATIONSHIP with God first before all else.

CatfishBilly:

So, compare that to these
But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him but did to him whatever they wished. Likewise the Son of Man is also about to suffer at their hands.” So Jesus said to them, “Because of your unbelief; for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you.
Matthew 17:12‭, ‬20 NKJV

Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst. (Matthew 18:19-20)

Amen, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it shall be done for him. Therefore I tell you, all that you ask for in prayer, believe that you will receive it and it shall be yours. (Mark 11:24-25)

These totally presented Jesus as a cosmic vending machine.
How do you reconcile?

hopefulLandlord:


I don't like debating dishonest points, so "works" is now "relationship"

okay, I'm done

TLuzzie:
Yahoo! I can finally comment. To hell with antispam.

---

Hahahahaha. JackBizzle has given up on his thread after someone successfully painted it with stupidity.

I wonder how CatfishBilly could help not being irritated in the face of such infuriating dishonesty. Although hopeFulLanlord's disgust is pretty obvious. Nice debate with the 'smart' Christian.

I'd rather troll than get engrossed in a debate with a moron_. The latter is irritating and annoying. The former is fun and pleasurable.

sonofluc1fer:

spacetacular, I'm not one of them. I'm a cute innoncent fellow.


shattap. old man.

CatfishBilly:

So, which one is more reliable?
Objectivity or subjectivity when dealing with facts?

Joshthefirst:
I don't think anyone cares whether you troll or debate that much. You can keep doing what makes you feel better.

Joshthefirst:
objectivity of course, when dealing with scientific facts. the templeton study is incoherent in my opinion, because prayer is not readily measureable and very subjective. there are different kinds of prayer.

JackBizzle:



Don't be annoying. Yes I called for a civil debate. The term 'sky daddy' is just a joke. Stop the hypocritical overreaction.

Communication is a science. You can't claim that spiritual is different from science then now link them together as spiritual communication.


There is no evidence for a God. No matter how much faith you have, you will never see physical evidence for God.

sonofluc1fer:

If its readily measurable, how can you say it works? How do you know your prayers work? That would be impossible to know. You really don't know if prayer works or not. But one thing is for sure.. Prayer feels good. Whether it works doesnt really matter, does it?

Joshthefirst:
ive had countless prayers answered.

Amberon11:
What overreaction are you talking about? "Sky daddy" is a derogatory remark you atheists make at God all the time and you know it isn't a joke.

No evidence for a God? First prove that there isn't one.

JackBizzle:


Swerve.

You just want to argue for argument sake.

If "sky daddy" is offending you, grow up.

Amberon11:
Its obvious you're incorrigible. You are insulting someone and telling them not to be upset. Rip to logical reasoning. If anyone need growing up, it is you.

sonofluc1fer:

If its readily measurable, how can you say it works? How do you know your prayers work? That would be impossible to know. You really don't know if prayer works or not. But one thing is for sure.. Prayer feels good. Whether it works doesnt really matter, does it?

Image123:


Of course it does, serious people more brilliant and accomplished than you would ever be don't spend hours daily doing unimportant things that don't matter. Do they?

JackBizzle:


Says the little child that needs a sky daddy.

Image123:


Of course it does, serious people more brilliant and accomplished than you would ever be don't spend hours daily doing unimportant things that don't matter. Do they?

Joshthefirst:
objectivity of course, when dealing with scientific facts. the templeton study is incoherent in my opinion, because prayer is not readily measureable and very subjective. there are different kinds of prayer.