KingEbukasBlog:
The pantheists believe the universe is god . The idol worshipers basically worship and deify anything from living things to inanimate objects . We logical theists believe in the existence of God , the First Cause , the precursor of everything that exists- the mind behind the existence of the universe

Nowadays , just anything can be called god . I can wish to call my mobile device , my shoe , toenail 'god' . You get the picture now right ?

So my people here is my question :

Is Atheism the rejection of the deification of an entity or is it the denial of the existence of an entity because its a deity or god ?

Very good question but then one look at the problem raised one can deduce it is just a argument of definition, a pinch of a precise definition is enough to put everything at rest for such an argument.

I can even explain such argument with same analogy that can be used to explain the true scotsman fallacy.

Pay attention: Every man from Scotland is a scotsman

the statement above is the definition of a scotsman, once you are from scotland you are a scotsman by definition.

I may come along and say a true scotsman is any man that can close one eye and leave the other open for a minute. this redefinition automaticlly changes what a scotsman is to my audience if they employ my later definition.

By employing my definition any man in the world, even a man from Nigeria can be a scotsman as long as he can close one eye for a minute.

So what exactly is a scotsman?

That is the argument of definition that you have just raised. I can call anything God by my definition, so if an atheist says there is no God does he also say my Shoe that i call a God does not exist or is not a God?

Well my shoe can be God but also cannot be God.

It depends on your employment of a certain definition, A man from Nigeria can be a scotsman by a certain definition and will not by another definition.

So the question is: What is God?

what makes something God?
is there an essence that makes someone or something God?
are there characters that you must exhibit then you become a God?


What is God?

Once we establish this definition i think we can then use it as a sieve to answer the question, if we on this thread are going to have a precise definition of God we are going to work with then we can comfortably define what we believe or what we dont, we can devise a category of how we place the validity of what God is or not on this thread based on our coined definition.

I have once asked on a thread on creation and God: Is God God because it created the universe or is it God whether or not it created the universe?

another way of asking, is God still god even if it didnt create the universe?

what makes God, God?

Cc. PastorAIO being a while brother

finally

johnydon22:


Very good question but then one look at the problem raised one can deduce it is just a argument of definition, a pinch of a precise definition is enough to put everything at rest for such an argument.

I can even explain such argument with same analogy that can be used to explain the true scotsman fallacy.

Pay attention: Every man from Scotland is a scotsman

the statement above is the definition of a scotsman, once you are from scotland you are a scotsman by definition.

I may come along and say a true scotsman is any man that can close one eye and leave the other open for a minute. this redefinition automaticlly changes what a scotsman is to my audience if they employ my later definition.

By employing my definition any man in the world, even a man from Nigeria can be a scotsman as long as he can close one eye for a minute.

So what exactly is a scotsman?

That is the argument of definition that you have just raised. I can call anything God by my definition, so if an atheist says there is no God does he also say my Shoe that i call a God does not exist or is not a God?

Well my shoe can be God but also cannot be God.

It depends on your employment of a certain definition, A man from Nigeria can be a scotsman by a certain definition and will not by another definition.

So the question is: What is God?

what makes something God?
is there an essence that makes someone or something God?
are there characters that you must exhibit then you become a God?


What is God?

Once we establish this definition i think we can then use it as a sieve to answer the question, if we on this thread are going to have a precise definition of God we are going to work with then we can comfortably define what we believe or what we dont, we can devise a category of how we place the validity of what God is or not on this thread based on our coined definition.

I have once asked on a thread on creation and God: Is God God because it created the universe or is it God whether or not it created the universe?

another way of asking, is God still god even if it didnt create the universe?

what makes God, God?

Cc. PastorAIO being a while brother

The Christian God is imagined and ascribed the following attribute:

*uncaused cause
*first cause
*personal etc

Based on these attributes, worship is now accorded this imaginary entity.


DEIFICATION is conferring the above attributes (in their amorphous measure), on just about anything inanimate and animate.

All of these are product of human imagination. The atheists simply ask anyone, who says that they aren't products of imagination, to produce the evidence to the contrary.

KingEbukasBlog:


Is Atheism the rejection of the deification of an entity or is it the denial of the existence of an entity because its a deity or god ?

Or could it be acknowledgement of the existence of an entity yet denying that it has any divine attributes?

johnydon22:


Very good question but then one look at the problem raised one can deduce it is just a argument of definition, a pinch of a precise definition is enough to put everything at rest for such an argument.

I can even explain such argument with same analogy that can be used to explain the true scotsman fallacy.

Pay attention: Every man from Scotland is a scotsman

the statement above is the definition of a scotsman, once you are from scotland you are a scotsman by definition.

I may come along and say a true scotsman is any man that can close one eye and leave the other open for a minute. this redefinition automaticlly changes what a scotsman is to my audience if they employ my later definition.

By employing my definition any man in the world, even a man from Nigeria can be a scotsman as long as he can close one eye for a minute.

So what exactly is a scotsman?

That is the argument of definition that you have just raised. I can call anything God by my definition, so if an atheist says there is no God does he also say my Shoe that i call a God does not exist or is not a God?

Well my shoe can be God but also cannot be God.

It depends on your employment of a certain definition, A man from Nigeria can be a scotsman by a certain definition and will not by another definition.

So the question is: What is God?

what makes something God?
is there an essence that makes someone or something God?
are there characters that you must exhibit then you become a God?


What is God?

Once we establish this definition i think we can then use it as a sieve to answer the question, if we on this thread are going to have a precise definition of God we are going to work with then we can comfortably define what we believe or what we dont, we can devise a category of how we place the validity of what God is or not on this thread based on our coined definition.

I have once asked on a thread on creation and God: Is God God because it created the universe or is it God whether or not it created the universe?

another way of asking, is God still god even if it didnt create the universe?

what makes God, God?

Cc. PastorAIO being a while brother

I think answering your question will make atheism much more vague . I think its more of a personal choice and reason to deify an entity , that is to treat it as a god . Let's not forget this : "God" is simply a title . And from the diversity of religion , we can see clearly that an object of worship and veneration isn't necessarily a god .Example : Confucianism where spirits of ancestors are worshiped and even offered rituals but these spirits are not seen as gods for reasons best known to the religion .

Whether the universe is created or eternal , the mind behind its existence is extremely powerful because the universe is still contingent on Its existence i.e even though the universe may have coexisted with God from past infinitude , God can still end its existence .

Even the pantheists do not reject totally the existence of the First Cause or separate conscious entity outside the universe , they believe everything is God . This means , both the First Cause and the universe is God i.e the universe is simply part of totality of God . Interesting !

So I think this means that atheism does not the deny the existence of an entity because it is deified , it rejects the deification of an entity . Atheism now clearly more than ever , does not deny the existence of the entity behind the existence of the universe , it simply rejects its deification .

But how did we miss this ? Atheism is disbelief in the existence of God/gods . This clearly shows that a creator or entity powerful enough to create or sustain the existence of the universe logically exists but atheists believe that its not a God .

To the atheist , nothing should be seen as as a God.

cc : PastorAIO

PastorAIO:


Or could it be acknowledgement of the existence of an entity yet denying that it has any divine attributes?

More like the rejection of the deification of an entity . I mean atheism simply refuses to accept that any such thing as a deity exists . The universe's creator is not even a deity to an atheist . Let it be all powerful , all knowing , all present , they believe it is not a God .

An atheist is simply telling you : Don't take anything as a God/god

From a Christian perspective , atheism robs God - the creator and sustainer of the universe- of His glory as a deity . From the general theological perspective , the One who sustains and upholds everything in existence is not a God .

Nothing deserves to be called a God/god to an atheist .

johnydon22:


Very good question but then one look at the problem raised one can deduce it is just a argument of definition, a pinch of a precise definition is enough to put everything at rest for such an argument.

I can even explain such argument with same analogy that can be used to explain the true scotsman fallacy.

Pay attention: Every man from Scotland is a scotsman

the statement above is the definition of a scotsman, once you are from scotland you are a scotsman by definition.

I may come along and say a true scotsman is any man that can close one eye and leave the other open for a minute. this redefinition automaticlly changes what a scotsman is to my audience if they employ my later definition.

By employing my definition any man in the world, even a man from Nigeria can be a scotsman as long as he can close one eye for a minute.

So what exactly is a scotsman?

That is the argument of definition that you have just raised. I can call anything God by my definition, so if an atheist says there is no God does he also say my Shoe that i call a God does not exist or is not a God?

Well my shoe can be God but also cannot be God.

It depends on your employment of a certain definition, A man from Nigeria can be a scotsman by a certain definition and will not by another definition.

So the question is: What is God?

what makes something God?
is there an essence that makes someone or something God?
are there characters that you must exhibit then you become a God?


What is God?

Once we establish this definition i think we can then use it as a sieve to answer the question, if we on this thread are going to have a precise definition of God we are going to work with then we can comfortably define what we believe or what we dont, we can devise a category of how we place the validity of what God is or not on this thread based on our coined definition.

I have once asked on a thread on creation and God: Is God God because it created the universe or is it God whether or not it created the universe?

another way of asking, is God still god even if it didnt create the universe?

what makes God, God?

Cc. PastorAIO being a while brother

Chaiiiii

See analysis...

Brains full this world

KingEbukasBlog:


More like the rejection of the deification of an entity . I mean atheism simply refuses to accept that any such thing as a deity exists . The universe's creator is not even a deity to an atheist . Let it be all powerful , all knowing , all present , they believe it is not a God .

An atheist is simply telling you : Don't take anything as a God/god

From a Christian perspective , atheism robs God - the creator and sustainer of the universe- of His glory as a deity . From the general theological perspective , the One who sustains and upholds everything in existence is not a God .

Nothing deserves to be called a God/god to an atheist .

So you are saying that what makes something a god is simply the human act of calling it a god. It is quite arbitrary and different humans can confer deity upon various entities.

Well, in that case, let us say that I decide to confer deity upon my sandals, in what way will my sandals have changed?
Will it have super human powers as a result?

How is it possible to rob God of anything? Especially when God's deity has been granted by the very same people who are 'robbing' him of glory.

What do you mean by glory? Is that a characteristic of deity? So anything glorious is divine?

I do not think that atheists, by virtue of being atheists, have any less appreciation for the glories of the universe. They still consider a glorious Dawning of a new day as such. They will not deny that the sun's rays are glorious.

Atheists look at the vastness of the universe and they are not any less awed by it than theists are. They study the universe to the level of subatomic particles and are as awed and humbled as any theist. ... So .... I dunno....

johnydon22, I troway salute o! How you dey?

PastorAIO:


So you are saying that what makes something a god is simply the human act of calling it a god. It is quite arbitrary and different humans can confer deity upon various entities.

Exactly !!

Well, in that case, let us say that I decide to confer deity upon my sandals, in what way will my sandals have changed?
Will it have super human powers as a result?

Not exactly . . It just becomes a god to you since you deified it . Its pretty much it .

How is it possible to rob God of anything? Especially when God's deity has been granted by the very same people who are 'robbing' him of glory.

What do you mean by glory? Is that a characteristic of deity? So anything glorious is divine?

Well the praise , adoration and honour for being the reason why we or anything exists .

Well since you now deified your sandals , you can praise and honour them for protecting the soles of your feet from being injured by thorns .

Whatever a god does for you is divine . Something being divine means it comes from a deity . If you start hallucinating with your sandals on , you could say that have received a divine revelation from it if you think it came from it .

Your sandals giving you divine protection could be it protecting the soles of your feet from thorns like I said before .

I do not think that atheists, by virtue of being atheists, have any less appreciation for the glories of the universe. They still consider a glorious Dawning of a new day as such. They will not deny that the sun's rays are glorious.

Atheists look at the vastness of the universe and they are not any less awed by it than theists are. They study the universe to the level of subatomic particles and are as awed and humbled as any theist. ... So .... I dunno....

I think I get what you mean . Glory has different meanings . The glory an atheist appreciates could be the beauty of the universe and the magnificence of its complexity .

KingEbukasBlog:


I think answering your question will make atheism much more vague . I think its more of a personal choice and reason to deify an entity , that is to treat it as a god . Let's not forget this : "God" is simply a title . And from the diversity of religion , we can see clearly that an object of worship and veneration isn't necessarily a god .Example : Confucianism where spirits of ancestors are worshiped and even offered rituals but these spirits are not seen as gods for reasons best known to the religion .

Whether the universe is created or eternal , the mind behind its existence is extremely powerful because the universe is still contingent on Its existence i.e even though the universe may have coexisted with God from past infinitude , God can still end its existence .

Even the pantheists do not reject totally the existence of the First Cause or separate conscious entity outside the universe , they believe everything is God . This means , both the First Cause and the universe is God i.e the universe is simply part of totality of God . Interesting !

So I think this means that atheism does not the deny the existence of an entity because it is deified , it rejects the deification of an entity . Atheism now clearly more than ever , does not deny the existence of the entity behind the existence of the universe , it simply rejects its deification .

But how did we miss this ? Atheism is disbelief in the existence of God/gods . This clearly shows that a creator or entity powerful enough to create or sustain the existence of the universe logically exists but atheists believe that its not a God .

To the atheist , nothing should be seen as as a God.

cc : PastorAIO

Lengthy but still not helping me, your post totally steered clear the problem I raised from the OP.

What is God?

On this thread do we have an established definition of God we can work with?

Is there something that makes someone, an external mind or something God that we can define on this thread to be sure what we mean by God?

Or is God anything we say it is?

As I have said: its an argument of definition, let us define God as we are to use it here then we can progress.

What is God?

What makes God, God?

PastorAIO:
johnydon22, I troway salute o! How you dey?

I am fine boss.. Being a while I bothered contributing here

johnydon22:


Lengthy but still not helping me, your post totally steered clear the problem I raised from the OP.

What is God?

On this thread do we have an established definition of God we can work with?

Is there something that makes someone, an external mind or something God that we can define on this thread to be sure what we mean by God?

Or is God anything we say it is?

As I have said: its an argument of definition, let us define God as we are to use it here then we can progress.

What is God?

What makes God, God?

The appellation "God" can be conferred upon anything just anything

KingEbukasBlog:


I think I get what you mean . Glory has different meanings . The glory an atheist appreciates could be the beauty of the universe and the magnificence of its complexity .

Glory has different meaning? Uuuuhm then this got me thinking could God then have different meaning?

If the Glory of an atheist has a less divine awe but natural could we then take it that to an atheist making your sandal God doesn't make it take more divine nature?

Could it be then that the state of Godhood is conceived sorely in the human mind to be conferred on anything they deem fit just like a title?

A different Glory!

KingEbukasBlog:


The appellation "God" can be conferred upon anything just anything

OK totally cool. This then makes the very noun "God" meaningless doesn't it?

johnydon22:


OK totally cool. This then makes the very noun "God" meaningless doesn't it?

Nope . It could different things to different people . God to me means the First Cause or the Necessary Being whose existence is the reason why anything exists . God to a pantheist is the totality of everything . God to a panentheist is the soul of the universe .

So its not meaningless

But the meaningfulness of atheism with this understanding is elusive , so please can you help me find it ?

johnydon22:


Glory has different meaning? Uuuuhm then this got me thinking could God then have different meaning?

Yeah , like I said in the post before this .

If the Glory of an atheist has a less divine awe but natural could we then take it that to an atheist making your sandal God doesn't make it take more divine nature?

Which glory are you talking about here ? The beauty of the sandals ?

Could it be then that the state of Godhood is conceived sorely in the human mind to be conferred on anything they deem fit just like a title?

Exactly .

A different Glory!

Well ...

Help yourself to understanding because you shouldn't be thinking about stuff in this direction. It is only when the said gods conveniently chose not to verifiably exist that people (atheists) started lacking a belief in their existence. You think if everybody worshipped shoes as gods, there'd be ashoeism? Universes, phones, they exist. There is no point here.

Ultimus:
Help yourself to understanding because you shouldn't be thinking about stuff in this direction. It is only when the said gods conveniently chose not to verifiably exist that people (atheists) started lacking a belief in their existence. You think if everybody worshipped shoes as gods, there'd be ashoeism? Universes, phones, they exist. There is no point here.

I don't think you understood the question I asked . Since anything can deified , what then is atheism ? I asked if it was the rejection of the deification of an entity or the denial in the existence of an entity because its a deity .

Its a pretty simple question bro .

I have the right to confer godhood upon anything I wish too

ebuka you are always asking the same questions over and over again

KingEbukasBlog:


Nope . It could different things to different people.

Which begs the question, what does it mean here?

God to me means the First Cause or the Necessary Being whose existence is the reason why anything exists.

So is the sole position of being the first cause makes God God to you or is God still God whether he/she/it was the first cause or not?

God to a pantheist is the totality of everything . God to a panentheist is the soul of the universe .

So now we are getting a definition which now breaks down into many subjective meanings taking us back to my first post, it is a problem of definition. The position of an atheist can only be ascertained if you bring out a definition of God to work with here.

So its not meaningless

For something to be meaningful it must have definition, so yes if you define God then God is meaningful but if God can be conferred on anything and everything without definition or underlying essence then it is meaningless.

But the meaningfulness of atheism with this understanding is elusive , so please can you help me find it ?

it is very simple actually like i said before, arguments of definition can only be put to rest by coining an established definition.

Let me throw in another analogy to demonstrate.

If we define a desktop computer as any computer that can be used while on a desk this is a definition.

I can then tell you that my laptop is a desktop, you must ask why?

What makes my laptop a desktop?

I will simply answer that based on the definition of desktop above, my laptop is currently on a desk therefore it is a desktop.

I have given a reason why i regard my laptop to be a desktop meaning that there is a coined definition of desktop, if i give such an answer as the word "desktop" can be conferred on any computer, this is vague and lacks definition.

So the Pantheist might say that the universe is God, an atheist or agnostic if you will can simply reply "well i just call it the universe"

if you have no established reason or definition to root your basis of referring to the universe as God then the word "God" in reference to the universe is not binding and unnecessary since we already have an established alias for creation which is "universe or cosmos"

If you say God means the first Cause, one can simply say under which reason is the first cause God, by what definition can we label the first cause God or what makes the first cause God or what is the first cause.

Or then What is God?

KingEbukasBlog:


Yeah , like I said in the post before this .

therefor in order to bring up God or glory as a subject we must first of all define what glory or God is for that particular purpose.

Which glory are you talking about here ? The beauty of the sandals ?

And the point is becoming more clear, which glory am i talking about here which then falls on me to define the glory i am talking about.

Therefore the whole argument rest on a need for definition.

Exactly .

If the state of Godhood is just a notion conceived in the human mind that can be conferred on "ANYTHING" we want then this makes the word GOD to lack meaning.

for instance: If i refer to my phone as a sandal.
what then is a sandal? if i define a sandal as something worn on the feet to protect me from the ground.

the next question is; Does my phone then fall into this definition of sandal?

if No. then how is it a sandal?

this also can be applied to the usage of the word "God"
if i refer to my sandal as "GOD" on what rope do i hang this statement?

is there a particular definition i base my conferment of God on the sandal? if not, then why is it no longer a sandal?

Meaning is a child of definition and definition begets reason, to confer a notion without reason makes the notion in itself meaningless.

Well ...

so my brother how do we define God?

Is God defined as anything we say God is?

if this is so then God as a word may yet be meaningless as "Christian atheism" defines it.

@ Johnydon22
Brilliant!!! mehn...
Miss you bro...

4kings:
@ Johnydon22
Brilliant!!! mehn...
Miss you bro...

Miss you all too brother, as MTN drink my 22gb under 2weeks i don swear say i no go buy data again.. If una go buy me data i go dey come online well well

johnydon22:
Miss you all too brother, as MTN drink my 22gb under 2weeks i don swear say i no go buy data again.. If una go buy me data i go dey come online well well

lol
get ntel...
No cash on me for now...

4kings:

lol
get ntel...
No cash on me for now...

Ntel no dey Enugu naa

johnydon22:
Miss you all too brother, as MTN drink my 22gb under 2weeks i don swear say i no go buy data again.. If una go buy me data i go dey come online well well

in 10 days mtn don chop almost 5 k for my hand ,their data dey quickly finish

johnydon22:

Ntel no dey Enugu naa

Haaa, i don forget say na dat side you dey..
No worry Hahn go come to the rescue

BTW, you didn't upload that your debate video again...

4kings:

Haaa, i don forget say na dat side you dey..
No worry Hahn go come to the rescue

BTW, you didn't upload that your debate video again...

Them no send the video give me oo. I will disturb them again shaaa

stephenmorris:
in 10 days mtn don chop almost 5 k for my hand ,their data dey quickly finish

Ayam juss tired.. 10k under 2weeks them chop me, na winch be this?

this must be my village people at work

johnydon22:


Them no send the video give me oo. I will disturb them again shaaa

Okay, my oga...

johnydon22:


Ayam juss tired.. 10k under 2weeks them chop me, na winch be this?

this must be my village people at work

Or maybe too much youtube

4kings:


Or maybe too much youtube

Guilty as charged