Bismillaahir-Rahmaanir-Raheem

There are some Muslims who are prone to declaring many of the Muslim rulers as disbelievers because of alleged alliances between them and some kaafir nations. An apt example is the supposed alliance, tie and treaty between the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and the United States of America, or with the United Kingdom. Many of those who rush to make such judgements often jettison the principles of the Shariah while doing so.

Firstly, if the alliances between them is in the form of the Muslim governments aiding the Kuffaar governments against a fellow Muslim country (or a Muslim individual), no doubt that it is superficially unbelief on part of that government yet the declaration of kufr against it cannot be expressly made without recourse to the principles of Shariah.

If the supposed aid is borne out of mundane reasons, then the Muslim government can be excused. The proof for that was the Prophet’s non excommunication of Haatib bn Abee Bal’ta’ah from Islam as was recorded in the hadith of Bukhaaree (no 3007, 3081, etc.) and Muslim (hadith no 6351 and 6352), and other records. In the incident, Haatib bn Abee Bal’ta’ah (may Allaah be pleased with him) had written the Quraysh in Makkah informing them of the impending attack from the Prophet (sallallaahu alahyi wa sallam) and the Muslims of Madeenah.

Revelation had come to the Prophet (sallallaahu alahyi wa sallam) about the letter in transit; he then sent Alee bn Abee Taalib, Az-Zubayr bn Al-Awwam and Al-Miqdaad bn al-Aswad (may Allaah be pleased with all) after the bearer of the letter who happened to be a woman who was on a return journey from Makkah. When accosted, the woman had denied being in the possession of any letter until the emissaries from the Prophet (sallallaahu alahyi wa sallam) threatened that if she failed to bring it wherever it was, she would be searched thoroughly even if it would mean getting her stripped. Being an Arab woman who knew the implication of that, she brought the letter out from the root of her hair!

When the letter got to the Prophet (sallallaahu alahyi wa sallam), he queried Haatib why he did that. Haatib came up with an explanation that went down mundane reasons. He said:
‘O Messenger of Allaah, do not be hasty in passing judgement against me. I was a person living amidst the Quraysh even though I was not one of them. There are amongst the Muhaajiroon those who have relatives in Makkah protecting their families and wealth, so I loved that if I had not got a family to do same for me amongst them then I should try to seek a hand from them to protect my family. I did not do that out of disbelief or to forsake Islam, or out of pleasure with unbelief after Islam.’

The Prophet (sallallaahu alahyi wa sallam) was satisfied with his explanation. And that remains a stare decisis in the issue in question. He said: ‘He has told you (the Muslims) the truth.’ That, in fact, indicated that the Revelation confirmed that Haatib was truthful in his explanation.

The single reason the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alahyi wa sallam) did not excommunicate from Islam Haatib was the fact that he did what he did out of worldly reason.

Ibn Katheer said: ‘The Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alahyi wa sallam) accepted the excuse of Haatib because he only did what he did in order to make use of the Quraysh due to what they had of wealth and children.’ [Tafseer Ibn Katheer vol.4 p.410]
A point to also note here is that, the Prophet (sallallaahu alahyi wa sallam) first asked Haatib the reason behind his action. He asked him that day: ‘What made you do this, Haatib?’ That sets the principle that whoever wants to make judgement in matters like this has to ask why?

If because of worldly reasons, as indicated in the incident of Haatib, the doer has an excuse from being excommunicated from the Deen. But if he had done it in order to aid their religion then that is Kufr. Hope that is noted.

It should however be noted that aiding the Kuffaar because of worldly reasons is a great sin in the sight of Allaah. The Prophet (sallallaahu alahyi wa sallam) exonerated Haatib from that because of the virtue of Badr Battle which he took part. On the Day of Resurrection, the Prophet (sallallaahu alahyi wa sallam) shall intercede for those guilty of one major sin or the other (so far it is not Shirk or Major Kufr). It is only the khawaarij and the Mu’tazilah that believe otherwise. No doubt, those are heretics.
The main issue has been the permissibility or otherwise of Muslim governments forming alliances with Kuffaar governments.

If the alliance with them is borne out of attainment of necessities (of life or otherwise) there is nothing against it. It is not prohibited to cooperate with the non-Muslims in what is right, or in what brings benefits to Islam and the Muslims. Arm deals are good examples here so also are car deals.

So also there is no unbelief in mutual respect, honour, exchange of greetings, etc, with the non-Muslims. Some of the acts may be commendable or reprehensible as the case may be, but that they reach the level of unbelief is questionable.

There is no disbelief in being ordinarily good and just to them so far they are not enemies of the state. Mere eating or drinking with non-Muslims is not act of disbelief, contrary to the thought of some. So also are trading with them, donating blood to their sick, allowing them to enter masjid when necessary save the Holy Sanctuary of Makkah.

The principle therefore is:

There must be a clear-cut act of kufr from the Muslim government before you can declare it a kaafir. So far the alleged act is equivocal then no way.

Shaykhul-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah said: ‘Excommunication cannot be from equivocal matters.’ [AS-Saarim al-Maslool vol.3 p.964]

Reference: Ash-Shaykh Bandar bn Naayif’s Wa Jaadil’hum bil-Latee Hiya Ahsan

http://simplysalafiyyah.com/muslim-rulers-and-ties-with-non-muslim-governments.html

JazaakaLlahu Khayran

Wa Iyak

This is the type of "bahaduhum awliyahu bahdi" that the noble Quran rejects. This is dangerous. If they need to edit or review their religious books, why getting their masters involved?. They both created the mess and they wanna create another sh!t for the muslims.

Why should I trust Saudi with Quran now?

Empiree:
This is the type of "bahaduhum awliyahu bahdi" that the noble Quran eject. This us dangerous. If they need to edit and review their religious books, why getting their masters involved?. They both created the mess and they wanna create another sh!t got the muslims.

Why should I trust Saudi with Quran now?

Surah Al-Maeda, Verse 51 - 52:


"O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.


But you will see those in whose hearts is a disease hastening towards them, saying: We fear lest a calamity should befall us; but it may be that Allah will bring the victory or a punishment from Himself, so that they shall be regretting on account of what they hid in their souls"


# Do we need any other prove aside this clear beautiful verses?

At least better than a nation that romances with Israel from behind against Muslims while hypocritically coming out and lying in our faces.

^^^

# The fact that you guys never disappoint in your quest to defend Saudi-America by all means, in sha Allah, you will shamelessly come out to defend Saudi ties with Israel once its finally done publicly.


# Analysis | Saudi Proposal to Israel Could Be the Stuff of Trump’s Dream Deal in Mideast
Arab media's silence following reports of Saudi Arabia and Gulf States' plans for normalization with Israel suggests solid foundations. Its timing arises from the common interests of Arab leaders and Israel's right wing
https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/1.789953



# MK: There are covert relations between Israel, Saudi Arabia
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20170622-mk-there-are-covert-relations-between-israel-saudi-arabia/


# Israel calls for Saudi Arabia ties and state visits
Intelligence minister Katz invites King Salman to send crown prince to Israel in order to establish mutual ties.
www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/06/israel-calls-saudi-arabia-ties-state-visits-170622082111519.html

^^^Saudi Arabia and other Gulf Countries(like Qatar you were romancing previously) do not shy away from the fact that they have dealings with America. But an "Islamic" country which claims to abhor the Zionists but secretly deal with them is the most pathetic and disgusting thing.

https://www.wrmea.org/1986-november/israeli-arms-sales-to-iran.html

The most annoying part is, that hypocritical Khomeini came out and proclaimed the Quds day celebration is for Palestinians while they were dealing with the enemy.

On the other hand, exactly what you're accusing Saudi of doing is what your Islamic State is doing with respect to Russia/China.

1. Arms - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/14/russia-may-sell-iran-10-billion-worth-of-tanks-and-jets-in-new-a/
http://thediplomat.com/2016/11/iran-and-russia-negotiating-10-billion-arms-deal/

2. Oil - https://www.rt.com/business/389712-russia-iran-oil-goods/

3. Cooperation on intelligence - http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/09/28/russia-iran-iraq-and-syria-to-share-intelligence-on-islamic-state/

4. Trade to clock up to $600 Billion with China - https://qz.com/601831/iran-plans-to-boost-trade-with-china-by-about-1000-over-the-next-10-years/

5. Military trade with China - http://en.mehrnews.com/news/121476/Iran-China-deepening-military-ties

This includes high level weapons, missile defenses and the rest.


This is just a tip of how Islamic Iran deals with kuffar, the most annoying part is, all this resources are poured on sectarian terrorists in Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Bahrain, Yemen and other Gulf Countries.

As per Israel/Saudi "proposed" Alliance, the fact is Israel is the one who's trying to make friends with Saudi Arabia and others just because they're close to the West. That's their policy, it's even becoming clearer to the Israelis themselves that such an alliance can't hold as stated in June, 2017 in the Jerusalem Post!

But we know of a country that sought help from them, very deceitful. Even when Trump came to Saudi Arabia, no journalist with Israeli passport was allowed into the country. That's to show nothing dey happen!

Empiree:
This is the type of "bahaduhum awliyahu bahdi" that the noble Quran rejects. This is dangerous. If they need to edit or review their religious books, why getting their masters involved?. They both created the mess and they wanna create another sh!t for the muslims.

Why should I trust Saudi with Quran now?

You can trust your Qur'an with anyone, no one gives a heck about it.

The center was inaugurated during Trump's visit in Riyadh, I hope I don't have to define "inauguration" for you.
https://english.aawsat.com/asharq-al-awsat-english/news-middle-east/saudi-arabia/riyadh-forum-countering-extremism-fighting-terrorism-extremism-global-scourge
http://www.arabnews.com/node/1103136/saudi-arabia

The meeting between Trump and Muslim leaders is known as "Riyadh Forum on Countering Extremism & Fighting Terrorism" which happened in May, 2017 when you and your buddy were running around board shouting "Saudi this, Saudi that". At least you don't have to lie about anything, your hatred is taking you to another level!

Demmzy15:
You can trust your Qur'an with anyone, no one gives a heck about it.

The center was inaugurated during Trump's visit in Riyadh, I hope I don't have to define "inauguration" for you.
https://english.aawsat.com/asharq-al-awsat-english/news-middle-east/saudi-arabia/riyadh-forum-countering-extremism-fighting-terrorism-extremism-global-scourge
http://www.arabnews.com/node/1103136/saudi-arabia

The meeting between Trump and Muslim leaders is known as "Riyadh Forum on Countering Extremism & Fighting Terrorism" which happened in May, 2017 when you and your buddy were running around board shouting "Saudi this, Saudi that". At least you don't have to lie about anything, your hatred is taking you to another level!

I have no idea what you just said. Seems to me you probably said something about attached picture. The picture is mere illustration. I don't care about it. It doesn't prove anything. I was rather talking about intrinsic nature of their alliance. Who cares about the picture.

This is not abut hating anyone, This is about facts on the ground. If you think it is about hate, then, maybe you need to consider another hadith which speaks about 70 thousand jews will join dajjal from iran


Hadith - Muslim #7034, Narrated Anas ibn Malik

Allah's Apostle (saw) said: The Dajjal would be followed by seventy thousand Jews of Isfahan wearing Persian shawls.


Outside Arab world, Iran was home to many Jews but most of them had gone to Israel after the Arab-Israeli Conflict in 1967. Still, i believe at the time of kuruj of dajjal, there gotta be some people from iran who will support dajjal or join his army. Saudi however is taking it too far to the point of allowing them to review islamic books. Soon they will handover Quran to them too for review. Why are you pretending like there isn't pending disaster awaiting arabia as analysed by nabi due to such alliance(saw)?

Empiree:
I have no idea what you just said. Seems to me you probably said something about attached picture. The picture is mere illustration. I don't care about it. It doesn't prove anything. I was rather talking about intrinsic nature of their alliance. Who cares about the picture.

This is not abut hating anyone, This is about facts on the ground. If you think it is about hate, then, maybe you need to consider another hadith which speaks about 70 thousand jews will join dajjal from iran


Hadith - Muslim #7034, Narrated Anas ibn Malik

Allah's Apostle (saw) said: The Dajjal would be followed by seventy thousand Jews of Isfahan wearing Persian shawls.


Outside Arab world, Iran was home to many Jews but most of them had gone to Israel after the Arab-Israeli Conflict in 1967. Still, i believe at the time of kuruj of dajjal, there gotta be some people from iran who will support dajjal or join his army. Saudi however is taking it too far to the point of allowing them to review islamic books. Soon they will handover Quran to them too for review. Why are you pretending like there isn't pending disaster awaiting arabia as analysed by nabi due to such alliance(saw)?

Seriously, you're too funny! So because some Americans or British inaugurate and visit centers in Saudi Arabia, it automatically means they control the printing press? What are you even saying sef?

Since when Saudi and the West have had relations, the public life of Shariah compliance hasn't changed, in fact it's even better which shows you that the Americans and the rest don't really have an influence on the country's religiosity. So how can they now control the printing press? And if you're still persistent on this assertion, we need you to provide the addresses of the printing press under America.

Besides, if anyone should follow the Dajjal(in reality the Shi'a Mahdi), it'll be Iranian Jews. We already see that Iran is hypocritic to have dealt with Israel during the Iran-Iraq War. Even Saddam fired missiles into Israel, you can't chase out the Zionists by chest beatings!

Demmzy15:
Seriously, you're too funny! So because some Americans or British inaugurate and visit centers in Saudi Arabia, it automatically means they control the printing press? What are you even saying sef?

Since when Saudi and the West have had relations, the public life of Shariah compliance hasn't changed, in fact it's even better which shows you that the Americans and the rest don't really have an influence on the country's religiosity. So how can they now control the printing press? And if you're still persistent on this assertion, we need you to provide the addresses of the printing press under America.

I don't know how this relates to my comment. Smh

Besides, if anyone should follow the Dajjal(in reality the Shi'a Mahdi), it'll be Iranian Jews. We already see that Iran is hypocritic to have dealt with Israel during the Iran-Iraq War. Even Saddam fired missiles into Israel, you can't chase out the Zionists by chest beatings!

this is why I quoted hadith to show you that Iran ain't 100% free. The hadith shows some iranians would have ties with zionists, but doesn't necessarily mean their govt. I don't even think you understood my post

^^^You're trying to shift the goalpost ba? Hope you've not turned Shi'a? With this one that you're defending Iran.

I never meant all Iranians are potential dajjal followers, there are over 25% of Iranians who are Sunnis, even their Shi'a population have many who are innocent. So don't play that card with me.

Iranian regime under Khomeini requested for help from Zionist Israel, this shows that no doubt their Mahdi is the dajjal. He is the one Jews and Rafidah are expecting. As you know, they believe he'll come to Makkah to raise up Abubakr and Umar from the Prophet's side.

Demmzy15:
^^^You're trying to shift the goalpost ba? Hope you've not turned Shi'a? With this one that you're defending Iran.

I never meant all Iranians are potential dajjal followers, there are over 25% of Iranians who are Sunnis, even their Shi'a population have many who are innocent. So don't play that card with me.

# Haba! Se na Empiree blow make you this desperate @underline. Empiree, Abeg take am easy for him o.

# World fact: Sunni population is between 5 - 10%

AlBaqir:


# Haba! Se na Empiree blow make you this desperate @underline. Empiree, Abeg take am easy for him o.

# World fact: Sunni population is between 5 - 10%

Which blow exactly?!

As for your 5-10% claim when was the last time it was this figure provided? We all know the Iranian regime keeps suppressing this fact, they even claimed at one time it was 4-5% but stopped it when they saw how stupid it was.

Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei called on women to have more children to boost the country’s population to 150–200 million. Contraceptive policy made sense 20 years ago, he said, but its continuation in later years was wrong. Numerous speculations have been given for this change in policy. Some speculate that the new policy seeks to address the Supreme Leader’s concerns that Iran’s Sunni population is growing much faster than its Shia one (7% growth in Sunni areas compared to 1–1.3% in Shia areas) Wikipedia

They should just admit it, I even read an article sometimes ago where it was stated that Iran is likely to be a Sunni majority country in 2030. I hope by that time, you can slap and beat your chest very well!

Demmzy15:
Which blow exactly?!

As for your 5-10% claim when was the last time it was this figure provided? We all know the Iranian regime keeps suppressing this fact, they even claimed at one time it was 4-5% but stopped it when they saw how stupid it was.

Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei called on women to have more children to boost the country’s population to 150–200 million. Contraceptive policy made sense 20 years ago, he said, but its continuation in later years was wrong. Numerous speculations have been given for this change in policy. Some speculate that the new policy seeks to address the Supreme Leader’s concerns that Iran’s Sunni population is growing much faster than its Shia one (7% growth in Sunni areas compared to 1–1.3% in Shia areas) Wikipedia

They should just admit it, I even read an article sometimes ago where it was stated that Iran is likely to be a Sunni majority country in 2030. I hope by that time, you can slap and beat your chest very well!

# The fact still remained that you LIED with your astronomical 25% and above. You don't have to lie to submit an argument.

# No doubt I don't rule out the fact that Sunni (dominated areas) might rise in population to say 20% in Iran for one obvious reason, and that is: Multiple marriage and excessive breeding. That is common with Sunni worldwide. Quote me anywhere, Iranian Shi'a Muslims don't marry more than one wife, and they have very less children.

AlBaqir:



# The fact still remained that you LIED with your astronomical 25% and above. You don't have to lie to submit an argument.

My post of course contradicts that of official reports, my position is this statistics are hidden and restricted by the Iranian state. So it can be a "lie" according your standard, and I don't lie to submit any argument, it's you and your cohorts that lie and you've all been bursted countless times.

# No doubt I don't rule out the fact that Sunni (dominated areas) might rise in population to say 20% in Iran for one obvious reason, and that is: Multiple marriage and excessive breeding. That is common with Sunni worldwide. Quote me anywhere, Iranian Shi'a Muslims don't marry more than one wife, and they have very less children.

Gbam! You've admitted for once in your life! I hope it's not Ashura chest beatings that made you humble on this post!

Demmzy15:


My post of course contradicts that of official reports, my position is this statistics are hidden and restricted by the Iranian state. So it can be a "lie" according your standard, and I don't lie to submit any argument, it's you and your cohorts that lie and you've all been bursted countless times.

# Stop giving excuses, and admit your lies, or at best, desperation. It doesn't kill. It says a lot about your uprightness. If I didn't know your type, I might have say its "mistake" but obviously its not. And besides, is this the first time you of your lies?!

Demmzy15:

Gbam! You've admitted for once in your life! I hope it's not Ashura chest beatings that made you humble on this post!

# Admit that Sunni population is or will rise is not a big deal. What does population has to do, for example, with salvation? The whole of Muslim world population is not up to Catholic world population let alone world Christian. Does that suggest anything?!

Nice one OP . . as long as its business. .kosi wahala

ShaheedBinAliyu:
Nice one OP . . as long as its business. .kosi wahala

We not talking about biz here. Islam for does not forbids trade with non-muslims.

Empiree:
We not talking about biz here. Islam for does not forbids trade with non-muslims.

Then what exactly?

Demmzy15:
Then what exactly?

Answer is in this thread of yours

AlBaqir:



Surah Al-Maeda, Verse 51 - 52:


"O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.


But you will see those in whose hearts is a disease hastening towards them, saying: We fear lest a calamity should befall us; but it may be that Allah will bring the victory or a punishment from Himself, so that they shall be regretting on account of what they hid in their souls"


# Do we need any other prove aside this clear beautiful verses?

# The Tafsir of the above noble ayah is explicitly elaborate in yet the following ayah:

1. Allah does not forbid you regarding those who have NOT made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show
them kindness and deal with them JUSTLY; surely Allah loves the doers of justice. {Qur'an 60:8}


2.
O you who believe! Do not take for friends those who take your religion for a MOCKERY and a JOKE, from among those who were given the Book before you and the unbelievers; and be careful of (your duty to) Allāh if you are believers. {Quran 5:57}

If there is any non-Muslim who wage war against muslims, and mocks Islam, it is forbidden unto us to take him or her as a friend. President TRUMPET is 100% guilty of these, therefore befriending him is Haram.

AlBaqir:



# The Tafsir of the above noble ayah is explicitly elaborate in yet the following ayah:

1. Allah does not forbid you regarding those who have NOT made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show
them kindness and deal with them JUSTLY; surely Allah loves the doers of justice. {Qur'an 60:8}


2.
O you who believe! Do not take for friends those who take your religion for a MOCKERY and a JOKE, from among those who were given the Book before you and the unbelievers; and be careful of (your duty to) Allāh if you are believers. {Quran 5:57}

If there is any non-Muslim who wage war against muslims, and mocks Islam, it is forbidden unto us to take him or her as a friend. President TRUMPET is 100% guilty of these, therefore befriending him is Haram.

Another hypocritical talk! Please, before you open your mouth for my threads, always read the op.

#Is Russia not killing Muslims, so why is your Republic still dealing with them?

#Didn't Russia kill Muslims in Chechnya, why do you deal and fight along side with while killing hundreds of thousands of Muslims in Syria?

#Didn't the Israelis kill and chased the Palestinians from their homes, why did they supply weapons to you?

# Isn't China persecuting Muslims in Xinjiang Province, why do you still deal with them whilst shining your gworo infested teeth?

^^^
You MUST first admit that Saudi America, since the beginning of her bloodthirsty state till date has been in alliance with the enemies of God.

# Once you admit this, then we can discuss your nightmare Iran.

AlBaqir:
^^^
You MUST first admit that Saudi America, since the beginning of her bloodthirsty state till date has been in alliance with the enemies of God.

# Once you admit this, then we can discuss your nightmare Iran.

Since the start of their first state? Oya please educate us, I've got your time today. Oya start talking!