You are thinking that I have been watching too much Nollywood… well, there is some Nollywood connection to this. I do not watch movies much, Nollywood or Hollywood, but someone just narrated the story of one starring a popular comedian.

In the movie, we heard, a group of friends see that one of them is entirely no use to the world and decide to salvage something out of the human mess by turning him into cash. Salivating on the pretty damsels that will be fighting themselves to be seen by their sides as they paint the town red in hummer jeeps, they parcel him up and deliver him to the witch doctor who has the devil’s cauldron waiting. But the ancient man takes a look at the wastrel and warns them that if they kill the man, money will come out but it will be counterfeit money! The guy’s tethers are promptly cut, and as he goes home, he can’t stop asking God how his person managed to come to such a waste that he cannot even produce good money like everyone else killed for ritual.

By now everyone listening to the story was bursting their side with laughter. But it took my mind back to a story in a magazine titled “1000 Naira Notes, Ritualists Go Wild”. Since we know people believe these rituals and have been performing them, is it possible that they are all “deluded”? Or can we assume you can mint money by stewing human parts in some arcane cauldron in this malevolent variant of Satanism? If so, how good are such currency notes vomited by these dead or dying bodies? How do they manage about such details as serial numbers and other CBN details?

Anyone here can throw light into this matter?

Bizzarre stuff.

If i was told that a natural element (such as a human body) could go through a natural process (such as treatment with herbs) and morph into another natural element (such as the wind; or energy). . . I could begin to grapple with that -

But when i am told that a natural element (such as a human body) morphs into an artificial element (such as bank notes) I cannot believe that.

^^^I hear you. And to me, it makes no sense at all. But this thing has been going on for ages in our society. Is it possible people continue to do it when those who did it previously did not get results? How about those guys who turned rich overnight and people point fingers at them and whisper, "He used his wife for money ritual"? Bizarre stuff, yeah.

Anything is possible.We still know too little how this reality works, or rather how to work this reality.Some do better than others.

^^^ So in your world it is possible to defy "natural laws"?

MyJoe:

^^^ So in your world it is possible to defy "natural laws"?

Natural laws?What are those?The ones prescribed us by scientists?Those laws that are ever changing as the scientists themselves receive more and more information and know more about how this world works?Like i said before, we know far too little about this reality to give us the authority to draw final conclusions on how things must and should work in this world.No self-respecting scientist will ever stand up to say that he knows enough to say that the natural laws are fixed and inimutable.
This is not about believing anything, it is about remaining open to new informations about our reality that are coninuously streaming in so that we can know.

Bank notes; Jagunalabi?

Nah.

Especially when you consider that Nature is considerably alien to such things as Money; Signatures; Central Banks; Serial Numbered Paper, etc.

Like i said a corpse could become the wind for all i know. . .

But a bank note? Nah.

@ My Joe: Have you considered that money is actually made from selling the human parts to ritualists and not from turning corpses straight into bank notes?

^^^^ Like i said before, i have no authority to reject or accept any event that happens in this reality no matter how weird it may seem.So i will remain with my "maybe, maybe not" logic.
The scientist are now more increasingly accepting what the ancient spiritualists have been saying for millenia, that this reality is a simulated 3D holographic illusion, and it is very maleable if somebody knows how to do it.If this is really true, then it becomes very clear why such weird phenomenons can happen because the corpse and the bank notes are all holographic illusions anyway.
Can a dead body turn to or produce bank notes? I do not know, but i cannot and do not rule it out completely because i do not have all the data yet.That remains my stand for now.Let us all wait for more informations before making a final conclusion on what can and cannot happen in this reality.

But i tell you what, with the right 3D animation and special effect software, i can make a corpse sing and dance and spray bank notes straight from his/her mouth in a digital world created by me and it will look real if i know my stuff well and possess a good system.Just look at the kind of graphics coming out of hollywood, the movie avatar as the latest example.I don't have to tell you how convincing the graphics looked and that is only the beginning, the quality is going to get so goo that we will not be able to tell the difference between a CGI and what is real.
Do you understand what i am pointing at here?
-Computer created digital world with a corpse that can do anything, generated by a good combination of 3D graphics and special effect software
-3D holographic simulated reality
-Moneymaking rituals
-Banknotes producing corpses.

I am believing it more and more everyday that this reality that we live in is a computer generated 3D holographic simulated reality, so nothing can be too weird to me anymore.We can't possibly know what is real for us and what is not because there is nothing else we can compare and contrast this reality with.This reality is all we know.Unfortunately, we will have to die or sign out, as i like to put it, before we know what is behind the scene.
As for now, anything is possible, even corpses that produce banknotes.

jagunlabi:

^^^^ Like i said before, i have no authority to reject or accept any event that happens in this reality no matter how weird it may seem.So i will remain with my "maybe, maybe not" logic.
The scientist are now more increasingly accepting what the ancient spiritualists have been saying for millenia, that this reality is a simulated 3D holographic illusion, and it is very maleable if somebody knows how to do it.If this is really true, then it becomes very clear why such weird phenomenons can happen because the corpse and the bank notes are all holographic illusions anyway.
Can a dead body turn to or produce bank notes? I do not know, but i cannot and do not rule it out completely because i do not have all the data yet.That remains my stand for now.Let us all wait for more informations before making a final conclusion on what can and cannot happen in this reality.

But i tell you what, with the right 3D animation and special effect software, i can make a corpse sing and dance and spray bank notes straight from his/her mouth in a digital world created by me and it will look real if is know my stuff and possess a good system.
Do you understand what i am pointing at here?
-Computer created digital world with a corpse that can do anything, generated by a good combination of 3D graphics and special effect software
-3D holographic simulated reality
-Moneymaking rituals
-Banknotes producing corpses.

I am believing it more and more everyday that this reality that we live in is a computer generated 3D holographic simulated reality, so nothing can be too weird to me anymore.We can't possibly know what is real for us and what is not because there is nothing else we can compare and contrast this reality with.This reality is all we know.Unfortunately, we will have to die or sign out, as i like to put it, before we know what is behind the scene.
As for now, anything is possible, even corpses that produce banknotes.

@jagun, the lines between spirit-ism and science will only thin further

lagerwhenindoubt:

@jagun, the lines between spirit-ism and science will only thin further

and further.Informations are pouring in right now in such a way that a complete paradigm shift on how we view our reality is imminent.

^^^Do you realize that given the infinity of possible information, you will NEVER arrive at a point, no matter how advanced you are; where you can categorically state anything to be impossible.

Including the possibility that the goat i slaughtered yesterday was actually ALMIGHTY God visiting the world and looking for a goatish adventure.

Or that Yaradua is actually a disguised Beyonce Knowles.

We must accede that there are somethings which as rational beings we can categorically reject.

^^^ Otherwise, given your computer-simulated idea of reality then all semblance of meaning immediately and irretrievably collapses into absolute meaninglessness.

If you will reflect; you may recognise that a reality that actuates every conceivable logical or illogical possibility is diametrically opposed to the existence of a reality in which any form of meaningfulness may exist; much less harbour intelligent beings.

Deep Sight:

@ My Joe: Have you considered that money is actually made from selling the human parts to ritualists and not from turning corpses straight into bank notes?

From the ancient Canaanites with their malevolent variants of Baal to the Aztecs who held the hearts of their enemies to the sun while it was still beating, from the muti killings in South Africa to the goodluck charm killings in Utter Pradesh, there are different forms of human sacrifices for different reasons. Selling of human parts and getting paid happens around here. But there is this particular variant where the dead body is said to vomit crisp notes. Clearly, that is the kind behind that magazine headline mentioned in op. That is, if the CBN releases, say, N5000 note today, the practitioners of this opaque craft will quickly get the specimen of the note, then procure humans and get cracking, so that N5000 notes will be generated. And that is kind I am interested in in this thread.

Deep Sight:

^^^Do you realize that given the infinity of possible information, you will NEVER arrive at a point, no matter how advanced you are; where you can categorically state anything to be impossible.

Exactly my point and belief.Remember the statement,"nothing is impossible"?The evolution of knowledge may be infinite.Who says that there is any being who knows everything?Does even the creator God knows everything?

Deep Sight:

Including the possibility that the goat i slaughtered yesterday was actually ALMIGHTY God visiting the world and looking for a goatish adventure.
Or that Yaradua is actually a disguised Beyonce Knowles

That is absolutely possible, and in many a belief, that is considered to be absolutely true.There is only one consciousness manifesting in infinite numbers of forms.
The goat you slaughtered,yaradua and beyonce, are all just fleeting forms of illusion in a world of illusion.

Deep Sight:

We must accede that there are somethings which as rational beings we can categorically reject.

Momentary rejections based on our momentary ignorance, yes we can do that.So many have been rejected in the past that has now come to be accepted.We are in flux,deep sight.I thought that you of all people would understand that.

Deep Sight:

^^^  Otherwise, given your computer-simulated idea of reality then all semblance of meaning immediately and irretrievably collapses into absolute meaninglessness.

If you will reflect; you may recognise that a reality that actuates every conceivable logical or illogical possibility is diametrically opposed to the existence of a reality in which any form of meaningfulness may exist; much less harbour intelligent beings.

I understand what you mean, and that is why what is behind the scene of this reality is being hidden from us, so that we can stay in a complete state of total immersion in this reality to achieve that "meaningfulness".But the socalled meaningfulness is also an illusion that is transient.Everything is transient.Who knows, as we continue to evolve, we will probably acquire new meaningfulness in a completely new paradigm.We are shedding the old paradigm and shifting to a new one.
That is how i see things.

Jagunlabi I insist -

If you will reflect; you may recognise that a reality that actuates every conceivable logical or illogical possibility is diametrically opposed to the existence of a reality in which any form of meaningfulness may exist; much less harbour intelligent beings.

Might i ask if you think that it is possible that YOU jagunlabi -

 1. Are the First Cause and Prime Mover of all existence - namely that you are GOD himself - YOU exclusively: and no one else?

 2. Are in fact the master-mind of 9/11

 3. Are an ant; dwelling in an ant-hill in Kathmandu: and your entire existence and writing on this Forum are the imaginations and fantasies of the Ant.

I postively assert that a non-circumscribed reality which you posit is incapable of existence as it destroys every signal vestige of meaning required for finite existence.

Only a being which is the investiture of the 10th Dimension outside all space and time can exist in such a condition.

That is instructive on the true meaning of omnipotence.

Only a being which is the investiture of the 10th Dimension outside all space and time can exist in such a condition.

That is instructive on the true meaning of omnipotence

Hi Deepsight. If this is the true meaning of omipotence, then what happens when a being with the investiture of 10th dimention comes to any of the lower dimentions? Maybe such a being will magically change 2nd dimention to 10th dimension. Any body with a deep knowlege of how the universe works will sooner or later come to the realization that certain things are impossible. In the world of imagination which is a sham world, everything is possible and impossible. I challenge anybody anywhere to demonstrate in real life that human corpses can generate currencies or that a stone can turn to bread. Stay blessed!

This OP borders on an aspect of metaphysics that I like very much: the ontology of ousia, also known as the nature of substances.

I suggest these wikipedia pages for more perspective: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substance_theory

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ousia

Now to the OP: I think it is physically improbable that animal flesh can morph into paper, but I won't say it is altogether impossible. Bank notes, after all, are only paper, a processed form of cellulose pulp, i.e. plant matter. An adequate chemical reaction may yet be observed to carry out the transformation and cell restructuring at a micro-molecular level. My biology is rather weak, so I may not pursue this point. 

Edit: But where there will be a problem is the acclaimed incessant supply of bank notes from the corpse, a la Nollywood? That makes no sense because something cannot keep being spawned from nothing, I believe.

InesQor:

This OP borders on an aspect of metaphysics that I like very much: the ontology of ousia, also known as the nature of substances.

I suggest these wikipedia pages for more perspective: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substance_theory

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ousia

Now to the OP: I think it is physically improbable that animal flesh can morph into paper, but I won't say it is altogether impossible. Bank notes, after all, are only paper, a processed form of cellulose pulp, i.e. plant matter. An adequate chemical reaction may yet be observed to carry out the transformation and cell restructuring at a micro-molecular level. My biology is rather weak, so I may not pursue this point. 

Edit: But where there will be a problem is the acclaimed incessant supply of bank notes from the corpse, a la Nollywood? That makes no sense because something cannot keep being spawned from nothing, I believe.

Maybe that is artistic exaggeration on the part Nollywood and the money actually stops flowing once the life is finished and "nothing" remains. My real problem would be how they deal with the issue of serial numbers and how such notes fare well in circulation considering that the participants are said to acquire abundant mundane things bought with such money. I mean, you can buy oranges for N50 and no one would notice a problem with your money. But if you went into a car mart in our cash country and attempted to pay N8m for a car with non-CBN certified original money you'd be singing aleluyah in Alagbon Close before you can say "ritual".

Thanks for those wiki links. Will check them later.

MyJoe:

. . .
But if you went into a car mart in our cash country and attempted to pay N8m for a car with non-CBN certified original money you'd be singing aleluyah in Alagbon Close before you can say "ritual".

Thanks for those wiki links. Will check them later.

LMAO

I wonder what currency the notes are. . .

If it was done in ancient times would it be cowries, coins, or cattle etc

Can a witch doctor in bangladesh get me crisp pounds sterling? Please forward his contacts to me. . . My ex is really starting to get on my nerves

Why do we hear of these things only in places like Nigeria?

hmmm- nobody still has a clue?

toneyb:

Why do we hear of these things only in places like Nigeria?

Hi Toneyb,

You hear it not only in Nigeria but in every other place where physical claims or rather scientific claims are made without providing even an iorta of scientific evidence. Claims are cheap but scientific evidence do require much more. Once the average man start to ask for evidence, then these stories will disappear. I would have offered the secret behind some of these tricks as I have encountered the claimants on several occations but I guess I will keep quite. If people honestly believe such things, then the only thing that will convince them is when they have lost all their money and possesion as they seek to patronise those who claim to spin money from corpses. Best Wishes.

m_nwankwo:

Hi Toneyb,

You hear it not only in Nigeria but in every other place where physical claims or rather scientific claims are made without providing even an iorta of scientific evidence. Claims are cheap but scientific evidence do require much more. Once the average man start to ask for evidence, then these stories will disappear. I would have offered the secret behind some of these tricks as I have encountered the claimants on several occations but I guess I will keep quite. If people honestly believe such things, then the only thing that will convince them is when they have lost all their money and possesion as they seek to patronise those who claim to spin money from corpses. Best Wishes.

I completely agree, Such myths and urban legends are bandied only in places were the people are ignorant, uneducated or unenlightened. There are so many reasons why people bandy such urban legends as you have said.

jagunlabi:

Natural laws?What are those?The ones prescribed us by scientists?Those laws that are ever changing as the scientists themselves receive more and more information and know more about how this world works?Like i said before, we know far too little about this reality to give us the authority to draw final conclusions on how things must and should work in this world.No self-respecting scientist will ever stand up to say that he knows enough to say that the natural laws are fixed and inimutable.
This is not about believing anything, it is about remaining open to new informations about our reality that are coninuously streaming in so that we can know.

jagunlabi:

^^^^ Like i said before, i have no authority to reject or accept any event that happens in this reality no matter how weird it may seem.So i will remain with my "maybe, maybe not" logic.
The scientist are now more increasingly accepting what the ancient spiritualists have been saying for millenia, that this reality is a simulated 3D holographic illusion, and it is very maleable if somebody knows how to do it.If this is really true, then it becomes very clear why such weird phenomenons can happen because the corpse and the bank notes are all holographic illusions anyway.
Can a dead body turn to or produce bank notes? I do not know, but i cannot and do not rule it out completely because i do not have all the data yet.That remains my stand for now.Let us all wait for more informations before making a final conclusion on what can and cannot happen in this reality.

But i tell you what, with the right 3D animation and special effect software, i can make a corpse sing and dance and spray bank notes straight from his/her mouth in a digital world created by me and it will look real if i know my stuff well and possess a good system.Just look at the kind of graphics coming out of hollywood, the movie avatar as the latest example.I don't have to tell you how convincing the graphics looked and that is only the beginning, the quality is going to get so goo that we will not be able to tell the difference between a CGI and what is real.
Do you understand what i am pointing at here?
-Computer created digital world with a corpse that can do anything, generated by a good combination of 3D graphics and special effect software
-3D holographic simulated reality
-Moneymaking rituals
-Banknotes producing corpses.

I am believing it more and more everyday that this reality that we live in is a computer generated 3D holographic simulated reality, so nothing can be too weird to me anymore.We can't possibly know what is real for us and what is not because there is nothing else we can compare and contrast this reality with.This reality is all we know.Unfortunately, we will have to die or sign out, as i like to put it, before we know what is behind the scene.
As for now, anything is possible, even corpses that produce banknotes.

Jagunlabi, I like all the above. I like very much. Very interesting position.

toneyb:

I completely agree, Such myths and urban legends are bandied only in places were the people are ignorant, uneducated or unenlightened. There are so many reasons why people bandy such urban legends as you have said.

No myth or urban legends can make N50 notes appear in a box that you actually spend and it does not disappear.

Here is my personal story

In Awodi Ora Secondary School, AJ City Lagos.

I and four unnamed friends were party to a con that saw us losing N5k each. we arrived at the conclusion that we had been defrauded but nothing will change our minds that it was actually possible that for a fleeting moment, the spiritualist created money that we spent and could have spent even more had one of us not refuse to lick the oath kolanut.

We were broke youths in those times and a friend told us of a money-doubler that could change our fortunes.
1: We had to part with N1,000 which we did and he put it in a small box the size of a Chivita juicebox. he chanted something and opened up the box and gave us N5,000 each. you can imagine our delight. we went out and spent these monies with the fear that it will magically disappear.
2: The spiritualist further asked that if we could raise N10,000 each, we would get N50,000 after the ritual, N10k for secondary school students is easy, make fake requests for expensive text books, steal or borrow (all we did) and brought to the spiritualist.
3:He made us swear an oath to some money spirit that we cannot reveal the source of our wealth until after 5 years (heck who would want to reveal such a hit) so we sealed the oath by licking a piece of kolanut passing it on to each other. One friend refused but it did not stop the ritual anyway.
4: He got a chicken and killed it right before our eyes and rubbed the blood on all the monies we donated and tied it in a black nylon bag and asked us to return at night by 9.00PM at an unnamed location. (in an abandoned warehouse behind awodi ora estate)
5: We went there ahead of schedule and waited till 9.00 to forestall any chance of crockery incase he had any ideas.
6: He arrived at exactly 9.00PM and told us to clear the area as he prepared it for the spirits. at the end he rolled out a white piece of cloth on the grass and started chanting and I SWEAR the wind picked up (just like in the movies) and when it died down, he held the torch to the ground and We saw bundles and bundles and bundles of N50 notes wrapped in unmarked clips. i SWEAR!!! it could easily have been N1 million. We made for it quickly and as we fell over trying to grab as much as we could, the money vanished in our hands. ( i felt cold hard cash in my hands that night). He told us that the spirits were displeased because one of us did not lick the kolanut. That was how we lost our N10k and raised another N5k to at least get something, and that was when the spiritualist never showed up again, N15k gone into the wind. but i will never forget how the money appeared and how it disappear. I felt it, squeezed it but it shrunk and vanished right in my hands, we were definitely broke and frustrated the rest of the year. but one amongs us (The one who told us of the spiritualist was high on dough)  

What do you have to say to that, we were conned alright, but can the con go as far as making money appear and disappear right before your eyes

a human corpse (or any other species for that matter) turns to dirt (stone in rare cases) nothing more

@lagerwhenindoubt: LOL @your name first of all. Then LOL at the story! Optical illusions, my guy. You probably didn't actually feel what you think you felt. What you saw made you think you also felt the money. Many aspects of magic are made up of pure but complex illusion. I guess you can read jagunlabi's post above for more on that.

lagerwhenindoubt:

No myth or urban legends can make N50 notes appear in a box that you actually spend and it does not disappear.

Here is my personal story

In Awodi Ora Secondary School, AJ City Lagos.

I and four unnamed friends were party to a con that saw us losing N5k each. we arrived at the conclusion that we had been defrauded but nothing will change our minds that it was actually possible that for a fleeting moment, the spiritualist created money that we spent and could have spent even more had one of us not refuse to lick the oath kolanut.

We were broke youths in those times and a friend told us of a money-doubler that could change our fortunes.
1: We had to part with N1,000 which we did and he put it in a small box the size of a Chivita juicebox. he chanted something and opened up the box and gave us N5,000 each. you can imagine our delight. we went out and spent these monies with the fear that it will magically disappear.
2: The spiritualist further asked that if we could raise N10,000 each, we would get N50,000 after the ritual, N10k for secondary school students is easy, make fake requests for expensive text books, steal or borrow (all we did) and brought to the spiritualist.
3:He made us swear an oath to some money spirit that we cannot reveal the source of our wealth until after 5 years (heck who would want to reveal such a hit) so we sealed the oath by licking a piece of kolanut passing it on to each other. One friend refused but it did not stop the ritual anyway.
4: He got a chicken and killed it right before our eyes and rubbed the blood on all the monies we donated and tied it in a black nylon bag and asked us to return at night by 9.00PM at an unnamed location. (in an abandoned warehouse behind awodi ora estate)
5: We went there ahead of schedule and waited till 9.00 to forestall any chance of crockery incase he had any ideas.
6: He arrived at exactly 9.00PM and told us to clear the area as he prepared it for the spirits. at the end he rolled out a white piece of cloth on the grass and started chanting and I SWEAR the wind picked up (just like in the movies) and when it died down, he held the torch to the ground and We saw bundles and bundles and bundles of N50 notes wrapped in unmarked clips. i SWEAR!!! it could easily have been N1 million. We made for it quickly and as we fell over trying to grab as much as we could, the money vanished in our hands. ( i felt cold hard cash in my hands that night). He told us that the spirits were displeased because one of us did not lick the kolanut. That was how we lost our N10k and raised another N5k to at least get something, and that was when the spiritualist never showed up again, N15k gone into the wind. but i will never forget how the money appeared and how it disappear. I felt it, squeezed it but it shrunk and vanished right in my hands, we were definitely broke and frustrated the rest of the year. but one amongs us (The one who told us of the spiritualist was high on dough)  

What do you have to say to that, we were conned alright, but can the con go as far as making money appear and disappear right before your eyes

Please google Jame Randi and Darren Brown, Their videos on you tube will help you out.

@toneyb: Heard of the two of them but I think Randi's beliefs are extreme i.e. the extent to which he rapidly dismisses stuff

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derren_Brown

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Randi and http://www.randi.org/

toneyb:

I completely agree, Such myths and urban legends are bandied only in places were the people are ignorant, uneducated or unenlightened. There are so many reasons why people bandy such urban legends as you have said.

Highlighted position is tendentious and not borne out by the facts.

The vast majority of those who engage in rituals and not poor and uneducated. They are usually from the middle and upper classes. Once a reverend gentleman I knew of was accused of making money ritual with his son. He subsequently lost his position in the church. From this we can assume that (1) The leadership of that parish of the church believed it. (2) He did not deny it. There are other possibilities, of course, but on the surface of it, it does look like a confirmed case.