InesQor:

@toneyb: Heard of the two of them but I think Randi's beliefs are extreme i.e. the extent to which he rapidly dismisses stuff

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derren_Brown

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Randi and http://www.randi.org/

He knows magic very well and is better positioned to dismiss it than others, having being a great magician for over 30 years, He knows all the tricks involved.

MyJoe:

Highlighted position is tendentious and not borne out by the facts.

The vast majority of those who engage in rituals and not poor and uneducated. They are usually from the middle and upper classes.

There are educated illiterates and a lot of the people that engage in these act of sacrificing people to "evil spirits" are not people that I will consider to be educated at all. Education does not mean having a university degree.

Once a reverend gentleman I knew of was accused of making money ritual with his son. He subsequently lost his position in the church. From this we can assume that (1) The leadership of that parish of the church believed it. (2) He did not deny it. There are other possibilities, of course, but on the surface of it, it does look like a confirmed case.

Of course the leadership of the parish will have to believe it. Most Churches believe in these kinds of stories. The last time I checked most of the followers of pastor Adeboye believed that he drove a car on empty tank for over 200km. The guy doesn't have to deny it. I know of people that were accused of witchcraft back when I was in Nigeria but did not deny the allegations. They did not deny it because nothing they said mattered to those that were accusing them. Denying the allegations might even prolong the case, sometimes its better to let things die off on their own when you know that they are baseless. The man must have had his reasons for not denying it.

@poster
the dead body itself doesnt turn to money but the spirit can be invoked to appease demons who will bring the money to whoever has done the invoking

^^^ And where does the spirit get the money from? CBN coffers or it prints them?

but the spirit can be invoked to appease demons who will bring the money to whoever has done the invoking

hmmmmm

That'll be fantastic; but the smell may ruin all the fun.

What we know for a certainty is that a live human body could ooze lots of cash; there's evidence in many bank accounts. . .

MyJoe:

My real problem would be how they deal with the issue of serial numbers and how such notes fare well in circulation considering that the participants are said to acquire abundant mundane things bought with such money. I mean, you can buy oranges for N50 and no one would notice a problem with your money. But if you went into a car mart in our cash country and attempted to pay N8m for a car with non-CBN certified original money you'd be singing aleluyah in Alagbon Close before you can say "ritual".

Perhaps they use their powers to transfer real money from CBN coffers, or even from the Mint. Just speculating.

^^^ Hey Goog!
Those notes have serial numbers. NSPMC cannot deliver notes with missing numbers to CBN. Neither can CBN dispense funds without accounting for every note they receive from NSPMC.

Howdy Joe.
You, of course, are right.
There is nothing, repeat, nothing, that can turn a human corpse into notes!

How about the notes getting "missing" in transit from banks? If you know someone that has worked in a Nigerian Bank, they will tell you that money disappears and has to be accounted for at the close of every day. A lot of money, spread amongst many people  

Just saying, too, like Googler.

InesQor:

How about the notes getting "missing" in transit from banks? If you know someone that has worked in a Nigerian Bank, they will tell you that money disappears and has to be accounted for at the close of every day. A lot of money, spread amongst many people
Just saying, too, like Googler.

You seem to be talking about money getting missing at the level of commercial banks - not at the level of production and all that high security. Someone who knows once told me there is better security at the Mint than Aso Rock.

If juju "disappears" money from commercial banks, there will be a whole lot of money disappearing mysteriously to warrant a CBN, even SSS, investigation. Those little notes possibly stolen by cashiers, I think, cannot qualify.

@MyJoe: Of cos I was talking about commercial banks!

But on the other hand you just mentioned another point  . Abacha steals some billions and stows them away, and a juju man siphons it all away Abacha can't complain cos his stash was illegal anyway. So he ends up going to get some more. Ad infinitum. 

Jokes apart, did you check out those wiki links I gave you yet?

Not yet. Yesterday was hectic. Just got back online and will read them tonight. Thanks.

I think Abacha would kill everyone working at the bank or wherever he stashes them.

I used to have this friend who seemed very blessed. Only thing was each time he seemed to suddenly come into a lot of money, the money seemed to come whist he was on a sick (really really sick) bed. However, once the money had "arrived", he became better and then went off to purchase the latest vehicle or some other serious toy or combination of such like. And he had some serious toys!

We used to drink together (very heavily, I ought add) and one day, we came around to the issue of his hospital then windfall issue. After extensive wahala put to him by myself, he showed me a calabash with some rather smelly gory looking stuff in it. Apparently, he licked some of the vile looking stuff once every so many days (41 or 42 days, can't remember) and the following day, killed a goat which he could not see till slaughtered by those he sent to buy it. The idea was that the "spirits/powers" "influenced" business to come his way. Only problem was, according to him, he had noticed he was having issues getting erections starting from his 1st hospital trip following his "initiation?" Months later, and in my presence, he poured almost a gallon of pms into and over the calabash and set it alight stating it had totally quelled his manhood. Imagine my absolute suprise when 6 weeks later, he was dead broke. And I'm talking of losses running into over 40 million that I could see. Cars he bought had accidents (I'm talking brand-new landcruiser and SL mercedes) , 1 car was stopped and "discovered" to have been a stolen car he bought innocently (though police still took him to the cleaners over that), NDLEA said he was suspected of dealing in drugs (and again took him to the cleaners), a neighbor complained of strange noises coming from his place and he was thrown out by a military landlord with some major damage to health and property, a serious duplex burnt to the ground with supposedly close to 4M cash inside and yet another one was claimed to have been sold to him by a "fake" owner etc. 6 weeks! I have never seen such a laundry list of woes befall a human talkless of in the stated period.

But according to him, he regained use of his manhood . Sadly though, he died not too long afterward in a vehicle accident.

This experience comes to mind as I remember him saying he had to be a man when his "mix" was made because there was the use of human stuff in it. Could it be that nollywood hears of such things but not knowing that it is "influence peddling" like MyJoe would say, portray such as direct conversion from flesh to cash, usually after calling a name three times? The case above had too many strange issues to be explainable logically to me even to the death as yorubas would usually say such people sold out to "Ogun", the god of Iron, and so die either in vehicle crashes or in fire accidents (basically violently)

But direct conversion? That I would like to see

^^^ I would give an arm to have a firsthand experience like this! The other day while we were watching a Nollywood movie that featured this sort of thing on AIT, I told a friend I would like to have a one-on-one chat with a cultist of this sort. He opined that nobody would tell me the truth except one who had “come out”. But the problem I find with those is you can never trust their story. Emmanuel Eni has since been denounced as a fraud.  Then I read a book by one Iyke Nathan Uzoma, but the book's authenticity was heavily tainted by its unbriddled promotion of Benson Idahosa and some other "men of God". And the other day in Uganda someone told a British reporter that as a witch doctor he had personally sacrificed 70 people in rituals. Police investigations revealed he made it all up to gain some attention! I guess some people’s lives are too humdrum.

So seeing it personally as you did above would be wonderful! Note that the flesh to cash conversion theory is not mutually exclusive of the above or any other form of ritual. The way these stories have been peddled since forever, there are different kinds of rituals and many have been portrayed in Nollywood movies. The corpse to cash is just one of them. That is, the "big man" is said to have a secret chamber where no one else is allowed to enter. Whenever he needs cash he goes in there and calls the victim's name or chants some incantation and crisp notes start popping out. One movie I saw this, over 10 years ago, I think, is Blood Money.

^^^ I understand your desire and sincerely, I did ask him at the time to take me to the "baba" who he said was somewhere in badagry. Its a very detailed long story and was really interesting.

The one I'd like to see proved or disproved is this special room cruise. Maybe one day, a chance will come for such

so in the days before paper money, how did adherents get the cowries or whatever they needed to make them rich?

tpiah:

so in the days before paper money, how did adherents get the cowries or whatever they needed to make them rich?

.

i now see without doubt that civilization has eaten deep into most of you, infact, you could as well say satan does not exist or rather say there is no spiritual forces which controls the whole universe,  take it or leave it, money ritual is very very real, if you are'nt blind you would realise that spiritual forces governs d physical. go 4 more research and u'll come 2 this point of conclusion. science itself is still developing (discorveries)

tpiah:

so in the days before paper money, how did adherents get the cowries or whatever they needed to make them rich?

The cadavar vomited cowries.

joe4christ:

i now see without doubt that civilization has eaten deep into most of you, infact, you could as well say satan does not exist or rather say there is no spiritual forces which controls the whole universe, take it or leave it, money ritual is very very real, if you are'nt blind you would realise that spiritual forces governs d physical. go 4 more research and u'll come 2 this point of conclusion. science itself is still developing (discorveries)

That is what we are doing here: "more research". Please tell us what you know.

MyJoe:

The cadavar vomited cowries.

by the sackful?

I've never heard any story to that effect.

hmmm very interesting topic which was undoubtedly influenced by 'Nollywood flicks'. it is my understanding that most themes by an industry signify a certain element of truth of the society that surrounds that industry. for example the Indians and their 80s song and dance themes signified heavy cultural love between couples which was exported worldwide.same with the way Hollywood exploits violence which is very real in America today.

on to the topic. Nigeria is a country where a lot of millionaires make unquestionable wealth. whilst the majority can be said to have made their wealth from work [i.e. salaries, bonuses, contracts], you have a lesser minority that have stolen public/private funds to enrich themselves and then a minute number who 'blew up like nitrogen'.its these few numbers i believe we are discussing. while i dont have empirical proof or evidence its my belief that what we know is not even up to a 100th of what we dont know. its inconclusive to say because a true community is one where if you are not a member you can never have the full facts and information. so unless the members of this forum are interested enough in conducting a life experiment by joining a secret cult for money , we should believe what we want to. my personal belief, hell yeah. worse things are happening in the world we live in. as i said i have no proof but when u know a man who isnt a thief, is jobless, didnt inherit wealth or have relatives who sent money, how did that person in 3 months suddenly own 100 million naira worth of assets?

Its only in developing countries that people believe u can use juju to turn a dead body into money. It's possible to turn dead body into money is if they sell the body to medical science.

hmm, wondering why the title of the post above me doesnt match the topic.

anyway, moving on.

@ thread

when people are "used for rituals", are they actually enslaved or trafficked somewhere because i dont really see why there'd be such a wholesale slaughter outside of a war situation.

besides, disposing of a large number of bodies isnt that easy.

the other explanation of course includes abnormal habits.

people need Jesus for sure.

nmustwac (m) wrote:

Its only in developing countries that people believe u can use juju to turn a dead body into money. It's possible to turn dead body into money is if they sell the body to medical science.

But even so, there will always be people, and not just in developing countries who believe this sort of nonsense.
Even kill for it.