The Origin of the Word "church" (updated)
By Andy Zoppelt

Part 1: The Word that Changed the World
 

Language and its use of words is vital, it is the fundamental means in which we use to conveying and pass information from one person to another. The changing of one word can literally change the world. Therefore, translators are given an extreme responsibility in making sure they get it right, especially key words. When Jesus said, “Upon this rock I will build my ekklesia.” (Mat 16:18) The Greek word there is ekklesia and is pronounced ek-klay-see-ah. The translators purposely and knowingly used a word identifying a building to support a clergy rather than a word that would build us together as the body of Christ in unity establishing the kingdom of God in every city. Jesus did not and would not have said, "upon the rock I will build my church." The word “church” represents the complete opposite of building His kingdom on this earth as it is in heaven. Jesus would rather have said, "Upon this rock I will build my called out assembly"....a people called out of this world by faith in Him, assembling and gathering in one name and for one purpose all being one. 
Our word “Church” is one of those words that has impacted the world and has subverted the whole purpose for which it was intended. Because the translators used the word “church,” meaning a building, instead of a more accurate word reflecting a functioning body, it has affected our whole approach to the meaning of the body of Christ. We have been given a word from the translators that has nothing to do with the original Greek word ekklesia. There is not a single Greek word to back up the word church. So why is it there?

The early assembly of believers did not have a clergy distinct from the rest of the body. Clergy with titles and authority was foreign to the early disciples. It was the rise of this authoritarian clergy that needed a building to control the people both religiously and politically and to gather the people around the clergy. The Catholic Church and the Church of England both used the word “church” and its meaning as a building to hold the people in subjection to their control. Without a building the clergy would have lost their power over the people. Even today, without a building the clergy system would fall. This system of clergy/laity and the use of a building is what we have come to know as the “institutional” church system. This system was totally foreign to the vocabulary and the life of the disciples of Jesus, who built and depended on the move of the Holy Spirit through all the saints being built together. Therefore the retaining of the word "church" in our translations of the bible became crucial for the survival of the institutional church system even to this day.


To change the true meaning and function of the Greek word “ekklesia” to our English word “church” strengthened the clergy system and their power over the people. The statement, “power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely” has been the downfall and corruption of body ministry. The original intent was relational and not institutional. For in all the writings of the first and second century we do not find an “institutional” treatment of "ekklesia."

The new Webster’s international dictionary, 1909 edition, gives this definition of the word: 
“Church (church), n. [ME. chirche, fr. AS. circe, fr. Gr. kyriakon the Lord's house, fr. kyriakos concerning a master or lord, fr. kyrios master, lord, fr. kyros power, authority; akin to Skr. gram mighty , bold Olr. caur, cur, hero. Cf. KIRK.] 1. A building set apart for public worship, esp… 2. A place of worship of any religion, as, formerly, a Jewish or pagan temple or a mosque. Acts six. 37.”

There were pagans using the word “church” long before Christians ever began using it. The word church goes back to the Greek kuriakê oikia, which means “the house belong to the lord” or “the Lord’s house”. kuriakon (koo-ree-ak-on') means “belonging to the Lord” and oikos (oy’- kos) meaning “house.” So if the pagans used kuriakê oikia refering to a building belonging to the Lord, what lord were they referring to? The “Lord’s house (kuriakê oikia) was used in the 4th century and clearly was not referring to the Lord Jesus, but rather to the Lord Mithra the “sun-god”; the son god was a famous god among the pagans but with many different names. It was Constantine, who worshipped Mithra as his god and he converted the Mithra god into the Christian house or church. He was the one that transformed the called out assembly into a church recognized by a building and he then set his clergy in charge of the house…as we still see today with our pastors etc.. It all worked out quite nicely for him because he now had both the church and the state under his control.

The tie between the church and state had wielded so much power in history that the framers of our constitution would not permit any church to control our government. The first Amendment to the United States Constitution provides that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ...." and Article VI specifies that “no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States." 
The framers of our constitution indeed understood the power of such a tie. But what we have today is a bunch of buildings called church with each pastor having his own kingdom separated from the others in the city… they guard that position and place with their lives. Our assemblies were never to be separated within the city…it was clearly one called out assembly in each city as we see in scripture. Kingdoms are made up of cities within the kingdom and that is what we see in scriptures with the assemblies in the city. The called out assemblies jointly made up the kingdom of God with one King. It was the assembly at Ephesus, the assembly at Corinth and the assembly at Philadelphia, etc.. There was not a bunch of churches ruled by pastors and elders in each city, that would constitute a division within the body of Christ and nullify His rule over the city assemblies…truly a gross injustice and sin.

Tyndale created problems early on in his translation of the scriptures into English. Tyndale, a man who was martyred for his bible,  used the word "church" (churche) only twice, in Acts 14:13 and 19:37; and in both cases he understandingly understood church as a building connected to idol-worship:

Here are the places he used the word church, it is in old English: 
Acts 14:13,Then Iupiters Preste which dwelt before their cite brought oxe and garlondes vnto the churche porche and wolde have done sacrifise with the people. 
Now here is an updating version of his translation to present: 
Acts 14:13, “Then Jupiter’s Priest which dwelt before their city brought oxen and garlands into the church [pagan house of worship] porch and would have done sacrifice with the people.”

Here is the other verse in which he used the word church 
Acts 19:37 “For ye have brought hyther these me whiche are nether robbers of churches [pagan houses of worship] nor yet despisers of youre goddes.” 
Updating Acts 19:37-38, “For you have brought these men to me which are nether robbers of churches nor yet despisers of your goddess.” The reference is to the temple and goddess of Diana of the Ephesians.


Clearly Tyndale understood that the word church represented a pagan house of worship and translated it as thus. He lived much closer to the understanding of the word church than we. His translation was not something that the clergy-driven churches wanted to be known to the many ignorant people of that day who didn’t have bibles in English. That excuse of the availability of the scriptures need not go on today; we have bible programs that go directly to the Greek. Biblesoft has an excellent program that we can switch from the English to the Greek, there may be others but I don’t know of them, but my point is made. 

Greek kuriakê oikia ("house of the lord" relates to many different languages: Icelandic kirkja; Swedish kyrka; Norwegian and Danish kirke; German Kirche; Dutch kerk, Estonian kirik, Finnish kirkko and Old English cirice → Middle English chirche → today’s English church.

“CHURCH: From the Greek kuriakee, "house of the Lord," a word which passed to the Gothic tongue; the Goths being the first of the northern hordes converted to Christianity, adopted the word from the Greek Christians of Constantinople, and so it came to us Anglo-Saxons (Trench, Study of Words). But Lipsius, from circus, from whence kirk, a circle, because the oldest temples, as the Druid ones, were circular in form.” (Fausset's Bible Dictionary)

A building would more serve the purpose of a religious group with a built-in hierarchy than an organic body of believers ministering and loving one another. Christians originally didn’t build buildings for some kind of service as we see today, they were clearly distinguished from the pagans whose focus was on buildings, statues, ritual and physical objects. From its earliest usage, the word “church” has been understood in pagan traditions, then later in Roman Catholicism and now in this present day as a building, but never has the word “church” been demonstrated or justified from a biblical stand point to represent the Greek word ekklesia. Church was a pagan concept and not a Christian one.

When I gave my life to Jesus in 1964, I was falsely led to believe that the activities of the “church” were biblical and an essential part of my being a Christian. As a hungry man for God I just couldn’t understand how sitting in a pew or chair and listening to some person preach from the bible could change my life… especially when the bible spoke overwhelmingly of my relationship with the members and not a pastor. I wanted to experience life, not just hearing about it.

Many say, “We know the church is the building.” Do we? Do we act like it? No, of course not. We go to church rather than each individual functioning as members of an assembly. We ask people what church they go to. When we take up a collection for the church the money goes to the building...something of no eternal value. Each building has its own pastor, its own name and its own congregation. Then what is even more amazing is that we will often quote Hebrews 10:25 for the one missing the church service. But let’s see if this verse matches our typical church service,

“Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.”

First, they were an assembly that had purpose; much like the assembly line of an automobile factory where the various parts come together to make the car. Each part had a function within the whole body, a person absent is a part missing. 
This verse does not look much like a church service but rather an environment

Very true, now nicemuyoo, what I you going to do with this knowledge?

Nicemuyoo where do you worship?
Do those 'assemblies' exist anywhere?

They do exist everywhere in Nigeria and all over the world but they are a little flock as yahshua said they are not your usual mega churches , but just a collection of believers fellowshiping and encouraging each other in their journey through life.

MoR2:
Nicemuyoo where do you worship?

Do those 'assemblies' exist anywhere?

It is good to know scriptural truth, it points you in the right direction like directing your resources more towards helping the body of Christ which are actually real people with challenges and not waste too much on a building something of no value to Yahweh, that which would pass away.
But I am afraid this kind of scriptural truth is not popular with the crowd.

Hiswordxray:
Very true, now nicemuyoo, what I you going to do with this knowledge?

nicemuyoo:
They do exist everywhere in Nigeria and all over the world but they are a little flock as yahshua said they are not your usual mega churches , but just a collection of believers fellowshiping and encouraging each other in their journey through life.

Do you belong to any

Hiswordxray:
Very true, now nicemuyoo, what I you going to do with this knowledge?

With this knowledge comes an opportunity of improvement.
You can make yourself a better person or become better with it, and as improvement begins with I

nicemuyoo:
It is good to know scriptural truth, it points you in the right direction like directing your resources more towards helping the body of Christ which are actually real people with challenges
and not waste too much on a building something of no value to Yahweh, that which would pass away.
But I am afraid this kind of scriptural truth is not popular with the crowd

Only a dead fish goes with the flow

True, I experienced such assemble years back during my NYSC service , where we have fellowship everyone were of like minds no clergy/ laity division. People gave , laboured to encourage each other and spread the Gospel. It was a lovely time.

MuttleyLaff:
With this knowledge comes an opportunity of improvement.
You can make yourself a better person or become better with it, and as improvement begins with I

Only a dead fish goes with the flow

Not at the moment but I know Mr femi Aribisala is a coordinator of one of such fellowships. Just people of like minds fellowshiping together, they have leaders and coordinators but no clergy/ laity division everyone is easily approachable, no pastors or bishops. NO pressure except encouragement to pursuit righteousness and help each other and community at large.

MoR2:
Do you belong to any

nicemuyoo:

The Origin of the Word "church" (updated)
By Andy Zoppelt

Part 1: The Word that Changed the World
 

Language and its use of words is vital, it is the fundamental means in which we use to conveying and pass information from one person to another. The changing of one word can literally change the world. Therefore, translators are given an extreme responsibility in making sure they get it right, especially key words. When Jesus said, “Upon this rock I will build my ekklesia.” (Mat 16:18) The Greek word there is ekklesia and is pronounced ek-klay-see-ah. The translators purposely and knowingly used a word identifying a building to support a clergy rather than a word that would build us together as the body of Christ in unity establishing the kingdom of God in every city. Jesus did not and would not have said, "upon the rock I will build my church." The word “church” represents the complete opposite of building His kingdom on this earth as it is in heaven. Jesus would rather have said, "Upon this rock I will build my called out assembly"....a people called out of this world by faith in Him, assembling and gathering in one name and for one purpose all being one. 
Our word “Church” is one of those words that has impacted the world and has subverted the whole purpose for which it was intended. Because the translators used the word “church,” meaning a building, instead of a more accurate word reflecting a functioning body, it has affected our whole approach to the meaning of the body of Christ. We have been given a word from the translators that has nothing to do with the original Greek word ekklesia. There is not a single Greek word to back up the word church. So why is it there?

The early assembly of believers did not have a clergy distinct from the rest of the body. Clergy with titles and authority was foreign to the early disciples. It was the rise of this authoritarian clergy that needed a building to control the people both religiously and politically and to gather the people around the clergy. The Catholic Church and the Church of England both used the word “church” and its meaning as a building to hold the people in subjection to their control. Without a building the clergy would have lost their power over the people. Even today, without a building the clergy system would fall. This system of clergy/laity and the use of a building is what we have come to know as the “institutional” church system. This system was totally foreign to the vocabulary and the life of the disciples of Jesus, who built and depended on the move of the Holy Spirit through all the saints being built together. Therefore the retaining of the word "church" in our translations of the bible became crucial for the survival of the institutional church system even to this day.


To change the true meaning and function of the Greek word “ekklesia” to our English word “church” strengthened the clergy system and their power over the people. The statement, “power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely” has been the downfall and corruption of body ministry. The original intent was relational and not institutional. For in all the writings of the first and second century we do not find an “institutional” treatment of "ekklesia."

The new Webster’s international dictionary, 1909 edition, gives this definition of the word: 
“Church (church), n. [ME. chirche, fr. AS. circe, fr. Gr. kyriakon the Lord's house, fr. kyriakos concerning a master or lord, fr. kyrios master, lord, fr. kyros power, authority; akin to Skr. gram mighty , bold Olr. caur, cur, hero. Cf. KIRK.] 1. A building set apart for public worship, esp… 2. A place of worship of any religion, as, formerly, a Jewish or pagan temple or a mosque. Acts six. 37.”

There were pagans using the word “church” long before Christians ever began using it. The word church goes back to the Greek kuriakê oikia, which means “the house belong to the lord” or “the Lord’s house”. kuriakon (koo-ree-ak-on') means “belonging to the Lord” and oikos (oy’- kos) meaning “house.” So if the pagans used kuriakê oikia refering to a building belonging to the Lord, what lord were they referring to? The “Lord’s house (kuriakê oikia) was used in the 4th century and clearly was not referring to the Lord Jesus, but rather to the Lord Mithra the “sun-god”; the son god was a famous god among the pagans but with many different names. It was Constantine, who worshipped Mithra as his god and he converted the Mithra god into the Christian house or church. He was the one that transformed the called out assembly into a church recognized by a building and he then set his clergy in charge of the house…as we still see today with our pastors etc.. It all worked out quite nicely for him because he now had both the church and the state under his control.

The tie between the church and state had wielded so much power in history that the framers of our constitution would not permit any church to control our government. The first Amendment to the United States Constitution provides that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ...." and Article VI specifies that “no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States." 
The framers of our constitution indeed understood the power of such a tie. But what we have today is a bunch of buildings called church with each pastor having his own kingdom separated from the others in the city… they guard that position and place with their lives. Our assemblies were never to be separated within the city…it was clearly one called out assembly in each city as we see in scripture. Kingdoms are made up of cities within the kingdom and that is what we see in scriptures with the assemblies in the city. The called out assemblies jointly made up the kingdom of God with one King. It was the assembly at Ephesus, the assembly at Corinth and the assembly at Philadelphia, etc.. There was not a bunch of churches ruled by pastors and elders in each city, that would constitute a division within the body of Christ and nullify His rule over the city assemblies…truly a gross injustice and sin.

Tyndale created problems early on in his translation of the scriptures into English. Tyndale, a man who was martyred for his bible,  used the word "church" (churche) only twice, in Acts 14:13 and 19:37; and in both cases he understandingly understood church as a building connected to idol-worship:

Here are the places he used the word church, it is in old English: 
Acts 14:13,Then Iupiters Preste which dwelt before their cite brought oxe and garlondes vnto the churche porche and wolde have done sacrifise with the people. 
Now here is an updating version of his translation to present: 
Acts 14:13, “Then Jupiter’s Priest which dwelt before their city brought oxen and garlands into the church [pagan house of worship] porch and would have done sacrifice with the people.”

Here is the other verse in which he used the word church 
Acts 19:37 “For ye have brought hyther these me whiche are nether robbers of churches [pagan houses of worship] nor yet despisers of youre goddes.” 
Updating Acts 19:37-38, “For you have brought these men to me which are nether robbers of churches nor yet despisers of your goddess.” The reference is to the temple and goddess of Diana of the Ephesians.


Clearly Tyndale understood that the word church represented a pagan house of worship and translated it as thus. He lived much closer to the understanding of the word church than we. His translation was not something that the clergy-driven churches wanted to be known to the many ignorant people of that day who didn’t have bibles in English. That excuse of the availability of the scriptures need not go on today; we have bible programs that go directly to the Greek. Biblesoft has an excellent program that we can switch from the English to the Greek, there may be others but I don’t know of them, but my point is made. 

Greek kuriakê oikia ("house of the lord" relates to many different languages: Icelandic kirkja; Swedish kyrka; Norwegian and Danish kirke; German Kirche; Dutch kerk, Estonian kirik, Finnish kirkko and Old English cirice → Middle English chirche → today’s English church.

“CHURCH: From the Greek kuriakee, "house of the Lord," a word which passed to the Gothic tongue; the Goths being the first of the northern hordes converted to Christianity, adopted the word from the Greek Christians of Constantinople, and so it came to us Anglo-Saxons (Trench, Study of Words). But Lipsius, from circus, from whence kirk, a circle, because the oldest temples, as the Druid ones, were circular in form.” (Fausset's Bible Dictionary)

A building would more serve the purpose of a religious group with a built-in hierarchy than an organic body of believers ministering and loving one another. Christians originally didn’t build buildings for some kind of service as we see today, they were clearly distinguished from the pagans whose focus was on buildings, statues, ritual and physical objects. From its earliest usage, the word “church” has been understood in pagan traditions, then later in Roman Catholicism and now in this present day as a building, but never has the word “church” been demonstrated or justified from a biblical stand point to represent the Greek word ekklesia. Church was a pagan concept and not a Christian one.

When I gave my life to Jesus in 1964, I was falsely led to believe that the activities of the “church” were biblical and an essential part of my being a Christian. As a hungry man for God I just couldn’t understand how sitting in a pew or chair and listening to some person preach from the bible could change my life… especially when the bible spoke overwhelmingly of my relationship with the members and not a pastor. I wanted to experience life, not just hearing about it.

Many say, “We know the church is the building.” Do we? Do we act like it? No, of course not. We go to church rather than each individual functioning as members of an assembly. We ask people what church they go to. When we take up a collection for the church the money goes to the building...something of no eternal value. Each building has its own pastor, its own name and its own congregation. Then what is even more amazing is that we will often quote Hebrews 10:25 for the one missing the church service. But let’s see if this verse matches our typical church service,

“Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.”

First, they were an assembly that had purpose; much like the assembly line of an automobile factory where the various parts come together to make the car. Each part had a function within the whole body, a person absent is a part missing. 
This verse does not look much like a church service but rather an environment 

of course, at least no one is condemned for attending a church and not a fellowship ryt?

MuttleyLaff:
With this knowledge comes an opportunity of improvement.
You can make yourself a better person or become better with it, and as improvement begins with I

Only a dead fish goes with the flow

That great

nicemuyoo:
It is good to know scriptural truth, it points you in the right direction like directing your resources more towards helping the body of Christ which are actually real people with challenges and not waste too much on a building something of no value to Yahweh, that which would pass away.
But I am afraid this kind of scriptural truth is not popular with the crowd.

That great, I would share with you an experience I had.

At the time when I was getting closer and closer to God He revealed in my spirit the glory of the victorious the Church. It was the most beautiful and glorious thing thing I have ever seen and I was so excited because I have found the solution to every problem in the world. I knew that if the Church enter into the level of glory then all the problem of the world is solve. I knew that God was bringing the Church to this glory and victory. And I couldn't contain my excitement, I was going around telling people that something wonderful is about to happen, I told them that very soon everything is going to be alright (all problem would be solved).

I didn't know what exactly was going to happen and I didn't know when it would happen but I thought it was going to be very very soon. And then God showed me the state of the Church as it is right now. I was so full of grief that I thought it would be impossible for God to bring her to the level of glory and victory that I saw in the first experience. I found myself weeping and groaning for the Church, crying for a revival. Then after a while the Spirit took over and I found myself pushing and travailing in birth pain. For two weeks I couldn't pray in tongues. Whenever I try I just kept pushing and travailing in birth pain. The Holy Spirit told me it was for the Church and He gave no further information until one day... I was in the gathering of the brethren praying and God spoke these words to me, "she travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered." (Rev 12:2). And then the revelation came to me.
The time has come for delivery, a baby boy would be born. The Church right now is entering into labor pain. The pain shall be so great that Christians would fear for her death. They would blame it all on the unborn baby. They would hate the baby and what him death. "Alas the baby have brought his mother to her death", this shall be their cry. But no, the baby would be born and he shall cloth the mother with glory - yes that glory kept for her before the foundation of the would. Indeed, a new breed is raising, a male child. They shall break free from the traditions, religion and the doctrines of men and they shall bring restoration...
http://www.hiswordxray.com/search?q=vision+&m=1

God is going to transform Christianity, Christianity is going to be redefined. There is going to be a revolution, the old system would crumble and out of the ashes shall rise a new wine skin. For years I have been trying to see how this new wine skin would be and God has shown me a lot. Our fathers have failed but we would do Church the right way. In my blog I have been putting together the things that God has been showing me. I would share with you a link to something I feel is the basic to understanding Church as it ought to be.

http://www.hiswordxray.com/search?q=Fellowship&m=1

Ferisidowu:


of course, at least no one is condemned for attending a church and not a fellowship ryt?

No one is condemning anybody dear. The truth is that we have not come into the fullness of God’s thought for us and little by little we are getting their. But do not feel condemn because you haven't gotten to the promised land yet. Continue to look onto God and follow Him because He is your salvation.

I have read some of your write ups, lovely it seems you are an effortless writer it's a gift .

Hiswordxray:

That great, I would share with you an experience I had.

At the time when I was getting closer and closer to God He revealed in my spirit the glory of the victorious the Church. It was the most beautiful and glorious thing thing I have ever seen and I was so excited because I have found the solution to every problem in the world. I knew that if the Church enter into the level of glory then all the problem of the world is solve. I knew that God was bringing the Church to this glory and victory. And I couldn't contain my excitement, I was going around telling people that something wonderful is about to happen, I told them that very soon everything is going to be alright (all problem would be solved).

I didn't know what exactly was going to happen and I didn't know when it would happen but I thought it was going to be very very soon. And then God showed me the state of the Church as it is right now. I was so full of grief that I thought it would be impossible for God to bring her to the level of glory and victory that I saw in the first experience. I found myself weeping and groaning for the Church, crying for a revival. Then after a while the Spirit took over and I found myself pushing and travailing in birth pain. For two weeks I couldn't pray in tongues. Whenever I try I just kept pushing and travailing in birth pain. The Holy Spirit told me it was for the Church and He gave no further information until one day... I was in the gathering of the brethren praying and God spoke these words to me, "she travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered." (Rev 12:2). And then the revelation came to me.
The time has come for delivery, a baby boy would be born. The Church right now is entering into labor pain. The pain shall be so great that Christians would fear for her death. They would blame it all on the unborn baby. They would hate the baby and what him death. "Alas the baby have brought his mother to her death", this shall be their cry. But no, the baby would be born and he shall cloth the mother with glory - yes that glory kept for her before the foundation of the would. Indeed, a new breed is raising, a male child. They shall break free from the traditions, religion and the doctrines of men and they shall bring restoration...
http://www.hiswordxray.com/search?q=vision+&m=1

God is going to transform Christianity, Christianity is going to be redefined. There is going to be a revolution, the old system would crumble and out of the ashes shall rise a new wine skin. For years I have been trying to see how this new wine skin would be and God has shown me a lot. Our fathers have failed but we would do Church the right way. In my blog I have been putting together the things that God has been showing me. I would share with you a link to something I feel is the basic to understanding Church as it ought to be.

http://www.hiswordxray.com/search?q=Fellowship&m=1

nicemuyoo:
I have read some of your write ups, lovely it seems you are an effortless writer it's a gift .

Thanks,
How about you are you doing some writing yourself?

@ OP, nice work there. God bless you.

I am someone who does not believe the entirety of the Bible especially translated versions outside of Geneva 1599 and KJV in it totality.
Even Geneva 1599 and KJV would still have certain translational errors just like some of which you have pointed out.

I am really sad to see how the written TRUTH has been subtly twisted and corrupted over time...

A little of dosage of lies mixed with the TRUTH becomes a potent combination for deception. This has been the strategy of the serpent since the fall of man.

The time for restoration has come... God help us all...

nicemuyoo:
True, I experienced such assemble years back during my NYSC service,
where we have fellowship everyone were of like minds no clergy/laity division.
People gave, laboured to encourage each other and spread the Gospel.
It was a lovely time.

It is comforting knowing there are kindred spirits out there

Some will find it unbelievable that a careful and objective study of the bible
will show that early believers' gathering were led by a team of elders (i.e. senate of the presbyters, as it were)
and by not a single believer pastor, prophet or apostle, as presently is seen

Share the experience and lovely time more, go into greater details the experience
How long did this experience during the NYSC service fare for?
When did it, why did it, how did it peter out?
What stopped it being continued?
Why wasnt it replicated elsewhere after the NYSC service?

OkCornel:
@ OP, nice work there. God bless you.

I am someone who does not believe the entirety of the Bible especially translated versions outside of Geneva 1599 and KJV in it totality.
Even Geneva 1599 and KJV would still have certain translational errors just like some of which you have pointed out.

I am really sad to see how the written TRUTH has been subtly twisted and corrupted over time...

A little of dosage of lies mixed with the TRUTH becomes a potent combination for deception.
This has been the strategy of the serpent since the fall of man.

The time for restoration has come... God help us all...

But if I tarry long,
that thou may know how it is expedient to behave thyself in the house of God,
which is the congregation {Gr. ekklesia – called out ones} of the living God,
the pillar and base of the truth.
- 1 Timothy 3:15 Jubilee Bible 2000

For all it's worth, it's necessary and important to be familiar with this word "church"
because as we start to read about or know things done in the past,
we can begin to learn from them, learn a thing or two, would have become wiser and wise enough to make re-adjustments, where if applicable, to our theology

To start with and as a matter of fact, "ekklesia" is the proper and correct noun word for believers called out and/or gathering together, which the word "church", as it is, presently or currently represents.

"Ekklesia" actually, is a Greek word,
which in Athens and in most Greek poleis (i.e. Greek cities or states) means an assembly of demo
(i.e. yes, demo, is Greek for people, as like the demo in democracy)

"Ekklesia" is an assembly of summoned free people or gathering of those summoned.
The word is derived from “ekkletos” meaning summoned and “ekkaleom” meaning to summon or call out.

"Ekklesia" in Strong's Greek Concordance, is defined as "an assembly, congregation, the whole body of Christian believers"
and says it’s formed from a compound of "ek" which means "out of or out from and to" and a derivative of "kaleo" which means "to call or a calling"

"Ekkletoi" refers to the called-out inhabitants or citizens of Athens or any of the Greek poleis, assembled together, as a result of a call out request done by a herald, announcer or town crier.

"Ekklesia" appears 114 times in the NT.
It first appeared in Matthew 16:18,
and that's where it was first mentioned and first used by none other than Jesus
Now here's a sense of biblical déjà vu repeating itself , Eve out of Adam, Israelites out of Egypt etc
and this is, God, again, in the person of Jesus Christ doing a "call out from... and to assembly"

"Ekklesia" as far back in the Old Testament wilderness, has always been an assembly or congregation of called-out people
(i.e. Acts 7:38 is referring to the congregation in Deuteronomy 9:10)
and it's no different in the original Greek New Testament whether in non-secular and secular capacities
(i.e. Matthew 16:18, Acts 7:38 non-secular and Acts 19:32, 39 and 41 for secular)
Notice in Acts 19:32, 39 and 41, that "ekklesia" is used three times, for people not connected with religious or christian matters, assembling or gathering together.

This so far, is showing that, "ekklesia" represents something totally different to what we've commonly perceived what "church" is.

Also, the true meaning, import or connotation of "ekklesia" is lost or eroded when it is used or translated to/as "church"

"Ekklesia" isn't about physical structures, and the Greeks; originators of the word, never referred it, to be a building or place of worship, so at least Freeze got something right

At this juncture, some might say, all this etymology stuff is bunkum and time wasting, it's nitpicking over minute details, and that it's pedantic fault-finding or say church or ekklesia, whatever the noun used, it doesn't matter.
Others like damosky12, delighting in their ignorance(s), could say, church or ekklesia, it makes no difference,
it's much ado about nothing and so what's the big deal.

Well, FYI, in 1526 AD, William Tyndale's New Testament, was the first New Testament printed in the English Language
and the fact about this translation, is that, not a single occurrence of the word "church" is found used for congregation in it.

William Tyndale did however, use the word "church" twice in Acts 14:13 and Acts 19:37 for something else.
It was in reference to pagan Temples; "ekklesia" wasn't used in either of those verses mentioned.

Then Iupiters Preste which dwelt before their cite brought oxe and garlondes vnto the churche porche and wolde have done sacrifise with the people
- Acts 14:13 William Tyndale.

Zeus' temple was at the entrance to the city. The priest of the god Zeus brought bulls with flowery wreaths around their necks to the temple gates. The priest and the crowd wanted to offer a sacrifice [to Paul and Barnabas].
- Acts 14:13 GOD'S WORD® Translation.

For you have brought here these men, who are neither robbers of temples, nor yet blasphemers of your goddess.
- Acts 19:37 King James 2000 Bible

For ye have brought hyther these me whiche are nether robbers of churches nor yet despisers of youre goddes.
- Acts 19:37 William Tyndale.

Tyndale recognised, "ecclesia or ekklesia" to be congregacion or congregation of "called out people" who are believers
and that churches were buildings for religious practices or purposes, and this includes Jewish or pagan temples.

So, in this first English New Testament translation print, congregation originally was in the place where "church" is presently or currently found in most English translations.

In the beginning, building(s) was what "church" was original identified as,
but now, it's obvious and no denying that, "church" is prevalently also called or known as the body of Christ.
Examples of other churches, we have, as of today are:
The Church of Scientology, Church of Wicca, The National Church of Bey (i.e. Beyonce), Church of Satan,
The Sunday Assembly (i.e. an atheist church), The Church of Humanity etcetera.

1557 AD was the first time "ekklesia" was translated as "church" by William Whittingham in the Geneva New Testament produced, subsequent bible translations, KJV included, began having "church" used to describe people and their place of congregation or place of meetings too
From then to the present, the norm now is, "church" erroneously is the physical structure and people assembling together
Examples of this error and where are: Matthew 16:18, Acts 14:23, James 5:14

In the NT, we are used to knowing synagogue also to be an equivalent name of the building used for assembling in or congregating in, but the Greek word "sunagogé" means "coming together" and could imply a meeting (i.e. gathering together) rather than a building (i.e. Acts 13:43, James 2:2);
so synagogues were simply gatherings that took place outdoors or in people’s houses or courtyards
(i.e. refer to 2 Thessalonians 2:1 or Hebrews 10:25 Greek Text Analysis for more details)
TB Joshua’s set-up, calls itself synagogue,
but then for good measure, appends the word "church", making it: The Synagogue, Church Of All Nations (i.e. SCOAN)

The English word "church" on it's self, actually has pagan origins.
It's a derivation from the Old English word cir(i)ce, cyr(i)ce, related to the Anglo Saxon circay, kirk in Scottish, the Latin circus/circulous, Dutch kerk, or German Kirche.
These words all have associations with "gathering in circles"
and researches showed that most pagan religions meetings have worshippers/attendees gathered together round in prayer circles.

This information gives some insight into Tyndales' understanding
and the reason why Tyndale selected the word "Church" to refer to buildings; pagan temple(s) included
and consciously using congregacion (i.e. congregation) to mean "ekklesia"

Why was a totally unrelated word to ekklesia, substituted for ekklesia? (i.e. like in Job 14:4)

As so far noticed, the word "Church" has varied origins and different meanings to what we're accustomed to,
but the word in Latin for ekklesia is also ekklesia,
so, if Latin in the absence of a proper word, managed to retain the word ekklesia,
why couldn't the "called out ones" who translated, retain it too?

In light of all these information, why the word "church", is falsely used in place of Christ's ekklesia leaves one literally open-mouthed
No doubt, there are strong indications of foul-play somewhere down the history lanes of church,
as "church" DOESN'T COME from the original Koine Greek word ekklesia.

MuttleyLaff:

But if I tarry long,
that thou may know how it is expedient to behave thyself in the house of God,
which is the congregation {Gr. ekklesia – called out ones} of the living God,
the pillar and base of the truth.
- 1 Timothy 3:15 Jubilee Bible 2000

For all it's worth, it's necessary and important to be familiar with this word "church"
because as we start to read about or know things done in the past,
we can begin to learn from them, learn a thing or two, would have become wiser and wise enough to make re-adjustments, where if applicable, to our theology

To start with and as a matter of fact, "ekklesia" is the proper and correct noun word for believers called out and/or gathering together, which the word "church", as it is, presently or currently represents.

"Ekklesia" actually, is a Greek word,
which in Athens and in most Greek poleis (i.e. Greek cities or states) means an assembly of demo
(i.e. yes, demo, is Greek for people, as like the demo in democracy)

"Ekklesia" is an assembly of summoned free people or gathering of those summoned.
The word is derived from “ekkletos” meaning summoned and “ekkaleom” meaning to summon or call out.

"Ekklesia" in Strong's Greek Concordance, is defined as "an assembly, congregation, the whole body of Christian believers"
and says it’s formed from a compound of "ek" which means "out of or out from and to" and a derivative of "kaleo" which means "to call or a calling"

"Ekkletoi" refers to the called-out inhabitants or citizens of Athens or any of the Greek poleis, assembled together, as a result of a call out request done by a herald, announcer or town crier.

"Ekklesia" appears 114 times in the NT.
It first appeared in Matthew 16:18,
and that's where it was first mentioned and first used by none other than Jesus
Now here's a sense of biblical déjà vu repeating itself , Eve out of Adam, Israelites out of Egypt etc
and this is, God, again, in the person of Jesus Christ doing a "call out from... and to assembly"

"Ekklesia" as far back in the Old Testament wilderness, has always been an assembly or congregation of called-out people
(i.e. Acts 7:38 is referring to the congregation in Deuteronomy 9:10)
and it's no different in the original Greek New Testament whether in non-secular and secular capacities
(i.e. Matthew 16:18, Acts 7:38 non-secular and Acts 19:32, 39 and 41 for secular)
Notice in Acts 19:32, 39 and 41, that "ekklesia" is used three times, for people not connected with religious or christian matters, assembling or gathering together.

This so far, is showing that, "ekklesia" represents something totally different to what we've commonly perceived what "church" is.

Also, the true meaning, import or connotation of "ekklesia" is lost or eroded when it is used or translated to/as "church"

"Ekklesia" isn't about physical structures, and the Greeks; originators of the word, never referred it, to be a building or place of worship, so at least Freeze got something right

At this juncture, some might say, all this etymology stuff is bunkum and time wasting, it's nitpicking over minute details, and that it's pedantic fault-finding or say church or ekklesia, whatever the noun used, it doesn't matter.
Others like damosky12, delighting in their ignorance(s), could say, church or ekklesia, it makes no difference,
it's much ado about nothing and so what's the big deal.

Well, FYI, in 1526 AD, William Tyndale's New Testament, was the first New Testament printed in the English Language
and the fact about this translation, is that, not a single occurrence of the word "church" is found used for congregation in it.

William Tyndale did however, use the word "church" twice in Acts 14:13 and Acts 19:37 for something else.
It was in reference to pagan Temples; "ekklesia" wasn't used in either of those verses mentioned.

Then Iupiters Preste which dwelt before their cite brought oxe and garlondes vnto the churche porche and wolde have done sacrifise with the people
- Acts 14:13 William Tyndale.

Zeus' temple was at the entrance to the city. The priest of the god Zeus brought bulls with flowery wreaths around their necks to the temple gates. The priest and the crowd wanted to offer a sacrifice [to Paul and Barnabas].
- Acts 14:13 GOD'S WORD® Translation.

For you have brought here these men, who are neither robbers of temples, nor yet blasphemers of your goddess.
- Acts 19:37 King James 2000 Bible

For ye have brought hyther these me whiche are nether robbers of churches nor yet despisers of youre goddes.
- Acts 19:37 William Tyndale.

Tyndale recognised, "ecclesia or ekklesia" to be congregacion or congregation of "called out people" who are believers
and that churches were buildings for religious practices or purposes, and this includes Jewish or pagan temples.

So, in this first English New Testament translation print, congregation originally was in the place where "church" is presently or currently found in most English translations.

In the beginning, building(s) was what "church" was original identified as,
but now, it's obvious and no denying that, "church" is prevalently also called or known as the body of Christ.
Examples of other churches, we have, as of today are:
The Church of Scientology, Church of Wicca, The National Church of Bey (i.e. Beyonce), Church of Satan,
The Sunday Assembly (i.e. an atheist church), The Church of Humanity etcetera.

1557 AD was the first time "ekklesia" was translated as "church" by William Whittingham in the Geneva New Testament produced, subsequent bible translations, KJV included, began having "church" used to describe people and their place of congregation or place of meetings too
From then to the present, the norm now is, "church" erroneously is the physical structure and people assembling together
Examples of this error and where are: Matthew 16:18, Acts 14:23, James 5:14

In the NT, we are used to knowing synagogue also to be an equivalent name of the building used for assembling in or congregating in, but the Greek word "sunagogé" means "coming together" and could imply a meeting (i.e. gathering together) rather than a building (i.e. Acts 13:43, James 2:2);
so synagogues were simply gatherings that took place outdoors or in people’s houses or courtyards
(i.e. refer to 2 Thessalonians 2:1 or Hebrews 10:25 Greek Text Analysis for more details)
TB Joshua’s set-up, calls itself synagogue,
but then for good measure, appends the word "church", making it: The Synagogue, Church Of All Nations (i.e. SCOAN)

The English word "church" on it's self, actually has pagan origins.
It's a derivation from the Old English word cir(i)ce, cyr(i)ce, related to the Anglo Saxon circay, kirk in Scottish, the Latin circus/circulous, Dutch kerk, or German Kirche.
These words all have associations with "gathering in circles"
and researches showed that most pagan religions meetings have worshippers/attendees gathered together round in prayer circles.

This information gives some insight into Tyndales' understanding
and the reason why Tyndale selected the word "Church" to refer to buildings; pagan temple(s) included
and consciously using congregacion (i.e. congregation) to mean "ekklesia"

Why was a totally unrelated word to ekklesia, substituted for ekklesia? (i.e. like in Job 14:4)

As so far noticed, the word "Church" has varied origins and different meanings to what we're accustomed to,
but the word in Latin for ekklesia is also ekklesia,
so, if Latin in the absence of a proper word, managed to retain the word ekklesia,
why couldn't the "called out ones" who translated, retain it too?

In light of all these information, why the word "church", is falsely used in place of Christ's ekklesia leaves one literally open-mouthed
No doubt, there are strong indications of foul-play somewhere down the history lanes of church,
as "church" DOESN'T COME from the original Koine Greek word ekklesia.

Very insightful my brother.

Just to add a little to the de ja vu aspect on ekklesia where Eve was called out Adam, Israel out of Egypt, Abraham out of Ur e.t.c. is an evidence to show that God Almighty works in certain patterns to manifest His awesomeness...

Would you believe that recently, myself and some christian brothers and sisters have been meeting in each others' house to break bread (eat food together) and share words of TRUTH and reality in various homes? I didn't even have the slightest idea that this was ekklesia...just like the Apostolic church of old.

When it comes to matters of the written TRUTH, the minutest and finest of details really matters...and I am careful as possible not to fall under the illusion of synonyms...

The time for restoration has come.

By the way...is a copy of Tyndale's version of the Bible readily available?

nicemuyoo:

The Origin of the Word "church" (updated)
By Andy Zoppelt

Part 1: The Word that Changed the World
 

Language and its use of words is vital, it is the fundamental means in which we use to conveying and pass information from one person to another. The changing of one word can literally change the world. Therefore, translators are given an extreme responsibility in making sure they get it right, especially key words. When Jesus said, “Upon this rock I will build my ekklesia.” (Mat 16:18) The Greek word there is ekklesia and is pronounced ek-klay-see-ah. The translators purposely and knowingly used a word identifying a building to support a clergy rather than a word that would build us together as the body of Christ in unity establishing the kingdom of God in every city. Jesus did not and would not have said, "upon the rock I will build my church." The word “church” represents the complete opposite of building His kingdom on this earth as it is in heaven. Jesus would rather have said, "Upon this rock I will build my called out assembly"....a people called out of this world by faith in Him, assembling and gathering in one name and for one purpose all being one. 
Our word “Church” is one of those words that has impacted the world and has subverted the whole purpose for which it was intended. Because the translators used the word “church,” meaning a building, instead of a more accurate word reflecting a functioning body, it has affected our whole approach to the meaning of the body of Christ. We have been given a word from the translators that has nothing to do with the original Greek word ekklesia. There is not a single Greek word to back up the word church. So why is it there?

The early assembly of believers did not have a clergy distinct from the rest of the body. Clergy with titles and authority was foreign to the early disciples. It was the rise of this authoritarian clergy that needed a building to control the people both religiously and politically and to gather the people around the clergy. The Catholic Church and the Church of England both used the word “church” and its meaning as a building to hold the people in subjection to their control. Without a building the clergy would have lost their power over the people. Even today, without a building the clergy system would fall. This system of clergy/laity and the use of a building is what we have come to know as the “institutional” church system. This system was totally foreign to the vocabulary and the life of the disciples of Jesus, who built and depended on the move of the Holy Spirit through all the saints being built together. Therefore the retaining of the word "church" in our translations of the bible became crucial for the survival of the institutional church system even to this day.


To change the true meaning and function of the Greek word “ekklesia” to our English word “church” strengthened the clergy system and their power over the people. The statement, “power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely” has been the downfall and corruption of body ministry. The original intent was relational and not institutional. For in all the writings of the first and second century we do not find an “institutional” treatment of "ekklesia."

The new Webster’s international dictionary, 1909 edition, gives this definition of the word: 
“Church (church), n. [ME. chirche, fr. AS. circe, fr. Gr. kyriakon the Lord's house, fr. kyriakos concerning a master or lord, fr. kyrios master, lord, fr. kyros power, authority; akin to Skr. gram mighty , bold Olr. caur, cur, hero. Cf. KIRK.] 1. A building set apart for public worship, esp… 2. A place of worship of any religion, as, formerly, a Jewish or pagan temple or a mosque. Acts six. 37.”

There were pagans using the word “church” long before Christians ever began using it. The word church goes back to the Greek kuriakê oikia, which means “the house belong to the lord” or “the Lord’s house”. kuriakon (koo-ree-ak-on') means “belonging to the Lord” and oikos (oy’- kos) meaning “house.” So if the pagans used kuriakê oikia refering to a building belonging to the Lord, what lord were they referring to? The “Lord’s house (kuriakê oikia) was used in the 4th century and clearly was not referring to the Lord Jesus, but rather to the Lord Mithra the “sun-god”; the son god was a famous god among the pagans but with many different names. It was Constantine, who worshipped Mithra as his god and he converted the Mithra god into the Christian house or church. He was the one that transformed the called out assembly into a church recognized by a building and he then set his clergy in charge of the house…as we still see today with our pastors etc.. It all worked out quite nicely for him because he now had both the church and the state under his control.

The tie between the church and state had wielded so much power in history that the framers of our constitution would not permit any church to control our government. The first Amendment to the United States Constitution provides that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ...." and Article VI specifies that “no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States." 
The framers of our constitution indeed understood the power of such a tie. But what we have today is a bunch of buildings called church with each pastor having his own kingdom separated from the others in the city… they guard that position and place with their lives. Our assemblies were never to be separated within the city…it was clearly one called out assembly in each city as we see in scripture. Kingdoms are made up of cities within the kingdom and that is what we see in scriptures with the assemblies in the city. The called out assemblies jointly made up the kingdom of God with one King. It was the assembly at Ephesus, the assembly at Corinth and the assembly at Philadelphia, etc.. There was not a bunch of churches ruled by pastors and elders in each city, that would constitute a division within the body of Christ and nullify His rule over the city assemblies…truly a gross injustice and sin.

Tyndale created problems early on in his translation of the scriptures into English. Tyndale, a man who was martyred for his bible,  used the word "church" (churche) only twice, in Acts 14:13 and 19:37; and in both cases he understandingly understood church as a building connected to idol-worship:

Here are the places he used the word church, it is in old English: 
Acts 14:13,Then Iupiters Preste which dwelt before their cite brought oxe and garlondes vnto the churche porche and wolde have done sacrifise with the people. 
Now here is an updating version of his translation to present: 
Acts 14:13, “Then Jupiter’s Priest which dwelt before their city brought oxen and garlands into the church [pagan house of worship] porch and would have done sacrifice with the people.”

Here is the other verse in which he used the word church 
Acts 19:37 “For ye have brought hyther these me whiche are nether robbers of churches [pagan houses of worship] nor yet despisers of youre goddes.” 
Updating Acts 19:37-38, “For you have brought these men to me which are nether robbers of churches nor yet despisers of your goddess.” The reference is to the temple and goddess of Diana of the Ephesians.


Clearly Tyndale understood that the word church represented a pagan house of worship and translated it as thus. He lived much closer to the understanding of the word church than we. His translation was not something that the clergy-driven churches wanted to be known to the many ignorant people of that day who didn’t have bibles in English. That excuse of the availability of the scriptures need not go on today; we have bible programs that go directly to the Greek. Biblesoft has an excellent program that we can switch from the English to the Greek, there may be others but I don’t know of them, but my point is made. 

Greek kuriakê oikia ("house of the lord" relates to many different languages: Icelandic kirkja; Swedish kyrka; Norwegian and Danish kirke; German Kirche; Dutch kerk, Estonian kirik, Finnish kirkko and Old English cirice → Middle English chirche → today’s English church.

“CHURCH: From the Greek kuriakee, "house of the Lord," a word which passed to the Gothic tongue; the Goths being the first of the northern hordes converted to Christianity, adopted the word from the Greek Christians of Constantinople, and so it came to us Anglo-Saxons (Trench, Study of Words). But Lipsius, from circus, from whence kirk, a circle, because the oldest temples, as the Druid ones, were circular in form.” (Fausset's Bible Dictionary)

A building would more serve the purpose of a religious group with a built-in hierarchy than an organic body of believers ministering and loving one another. Christians originally didn’t build buildings for some kind of service as we see today, they were clearly distinguished from the pagans whose focus was on buildings, statues, ritual and physical objects. From its earliest usage, the word “church” has been understood in pagan traditions, then later in Roman Catholicism and now in this present day as a building, but never has the word “church” been demonstrated or justified from a biblical stand point to represent the Greek word ekklesia. Church was a pagan concept and not a Christian one.

When I gave my life to Jesus in 1964, I was falsely led to believe that the activities of the “church” were biblical and an essential part of my being a Christian. As a hungry man for God I just couldn’t understand how sitting in a pew or chair and listening to some person preach from the bible could change my life… especially when the bible spoke overwhelmingly of my relationship with the members and not a pastor. I wanted to experience life, not just hearing about it.

Many say, “We know the church is the building.” Do we? Do we act like it? No, of course not. We go to church rather than each individual functioning as members of an assembly. We ask people what church they go to. When we take up a collection for the church the money goes to the building...something of no eternal value. Each building has its own pastor, its own name and its own congregation. Then what is even more amazing is that we will often quote Hebrews 10:25 for the one missing the church service. But let’s see if this verse matches our typical church service,

“Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.”

First, they were an assembly that had purpose; much like the assembly line of an automobile factory where the various parts come together to make the car. Each part had a function within the whole body, a person absent is a part missing. 
This verse does not look much like a church service but rather an environment 

You gave your life to Christ in 1964? And you are till firm ? Wow. God bless you sir.

Hiswordxray:

That great, I would share with you an experience I had.

At the time when I was getting closer and closer to God He revealed in my spirit the glory of the victorious the Church. It was the most beautiful and glorious thing thing I have ever seen and I was so excited because I have found the solution to every problem in the world. I knew that if the Church enter into the level of glory then all the problem of the world is solve. I knew that God was bringing the Church to this glory and victory. And I couldn't contain my excitement, I was going around telling people that something wonderful is about to happen, I told them that very soon everything is going to be alright (all problem would be solved).

I didn't know what exactly was going to happen and I didn't know when it would happen but I thought it was going to be very very soon. And then God showed me the state of the Church as it is right now. I was so full of grief that I thought it would be impossible for God to bring her to the level of glory and victory that I saw in the first experience. I found myself weeping and groaning for the Church, crying for a revival. Then after a while the Spirit took over and I found myself pushing and travailing in birth pain. For two weeks I couldn't pray in tongues. Whenever I try I just kept pushing and travailing in birth pain. The Holy Spirit told me it was for the Church and He gave no further information until one day... I was in the gathering of the brethren praying and God spoke these words to me, "she travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered." (Rev 12:2). And then the revelation came to me.
The time has come for delivery, a baby boy would be born. The Church right now is entering into labor pain. The pain shall be so great that Christians would fear for her death. They would blame it all on the unborn baby. They would hate the baby and what him death. "Alas the baby have brought his mother to her death", this shall be their cry. But no, the baby would be born and he shall cloth the mother with glory - yes that glory kept for her before the foundation of the would. Indeed, a new breed is raising, a male child. They shall break free from the traditions, religion and the doctrines of men and they shall bring restoration...
http://www.hiswordxray.com/search?q=vision+&m=1

God is going to transform Christianity, Christianity is going to be redefined. There is going to be a revolution, the old system would crumble and out of the ashes shall rise a new wine skin. For years I have been trying to see how this new wine skin would be and God has shown me a lot. Our fathers have failed but we would do Church the right way. In my blog I have been putting together the things that God has been showing me. I would share with you a link to something I feel is the basic to understanding Church as it ought to be.

http://www.hiswordxray.com/search?q=Fellowship&m=1

Can i PM you? I am someone you can call 'A hungry soul'. I need more of God. I can't get filled. Pls reply me if i PM.

Hiswordxray:

That great, I would share with you an experience I had.

At the time when I was getting closer and closer to God He revealed in my spirit the glory of the victorious the Church. It was the most beautiful and glorious thing thing I have ever seen and I was so excited because I have found the solution to every problem in the world. I knew that if the Church enter into the level of glory then all the problem of the world is solve. I knew that God was bringing the Church to this glory and victory. And I couldn't contain my excitement, I was going around telling people that something wonderful is about to happen, I told them that very soon everything is going to be alright (all problem would be solved).

I didn't know what exactly was going to happen and I didn't know when it would happen but I thought it was going to be very very soon. And then God showed me the state of the Church as it is right now. I was so full of grief that I thought it would be impossible for God to bring her to the level of glory and victory that I saw in the first experience. I found myself weeping and groaning for the Church, crying for a revival. Then after a while the Spirit took over and I found myself pushing and travailing in birth pain. For two weeks I couldn't pray in tongues. Whenever I try I just kept pushing and travailing in birth pain. The Holy Spirit told me it was for the Church and He gave no further information until one day... I was in the gathering of the brethren praying and God spoke these words to me, "she travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered." (Rev 12:2). And then the revelation came to me.
The time has come for delivery, a baby boy would be born. The Church right now is entering into labor pain. The pain shall be so great that Christians would fear for her death. They would blame it all on the unborn baby. They would hate the baby and what him death. "Alas the baby have brought his mother to her death", this shall be their cry. But no, the baby would be born and he shall cloth the mother with glory - yes that glory kept for her before the foundation of the would. Indeed, a new breed is raising, a male child. They shall break free from the traditions, religion and the doctrines of men and they shall bring restoration...
http://www.hiswordxray.com/search?q=vision+&m=1

God is going to transform Christianity, Christianity is going to be redefined. There is going to be a revolution, the old system would crumble and out of the ashes shall rise a new wine skin. For years I have been trying to see how this new wine skin would be and God has shown me a lot. Our fathers have failed but we would do Church the right way. In my blog I have been putting together the things that God has been showing me. I would share with you a link to something I feel is the basic to understanding Church as it ought to be.

http://www.hiswordxray.com/search?q=Fellowship&m=1

Did you write those articles? Oh dear, i love them.

Over sabi Christianity
If congregation was d one commonly used, u ll be advocating for Church.
Oversabi

MuttleyLaff:

But if I tarry long,
that thou may know how it is expedient to behave thyself in the house of God,
which is the congregation {Gr. ekklesia – called out ones} of the living God,
the pillar and base of the truth.
- 1 Timothy 3:15 Jubilee Bible 2000

For all it's worth, it's necessary and important to be familiar with this word "church"
because as we start to read about or know things done in the past,
we can begin to learn from them, learn a thing or two, would have become wiser and wise enough to make re-adjustments, where if applicable, to our theology

To start with and as a matter of fact, "ekklesia" is the proper and correct noun word for believers called out and/or gathering together, which the word "church", as it is, presently or currently represents.

"Ekklesia" actually, is a Greek word,
which in Athens and in most Greek poleis (i.e. Greek cities or states) means an assembly of demo
(i.e. yes, demo, is Greek for people, as like the demo in democracy)

"Ekklesia" is an assembly of summoned free people or gathering of those summoned.
The word is derived from “ekkletos” meaning summoned and “ekkaleom” meaning to summon or call out.

"Ekklesia" in Strong's Greek Concordance, is defined as "an assembly, congregation, the whole body of Christian believers"
and says it’s formed from a compound of "ek" which means "out of or out from and to" and a derivative of "kaleo" which means "to call or a calling"

"Ekkletoi" refers to the called-out inhabitants or citizens of Athens or any of the Greek poleis, assembled together, as a result of a call out request done by a herald, announcer or town crier.

"Ekklesia" appears 114 times in the NT.
It first appeared in Matthew 16:18,
and that's where it was first mentioned and first used by none other than Jesus
Now here's a sense of biblical déjà vu repeating itself , Eve out of Adam, Israelites out of Egypt etc
and this is, God, again, in the person of Jesus Christ doing a "call out from... and to assembly"

"Ekklesia" as far back in the Old Testament wilderness, has always been an assembly or congregation of called-out people
(i.e. Acts 7:38 is referring to the congregation in Deuteronomy 9:10)
and it's no different in the original Greek New Testament whether in non-secular and secular capacities
(i.e. Matthew 16:18, Acts 7:38 non-secular and Acts 19:32, 39 and 41 for secular)
Notice in Acts 19:32, 39 and 41, that "ekklesia" is used three times, for people not connected with religious or christian matters, assembling or gathering together.

This so far, is showing that, "ekklesia" represents something totally different to what we've commonly perceived what "church" is.

Also, the true meaning, import or connotation of "ekklesia" is lost or eroded when it is used or translated to/as "church"

"Ekklesia" isn't about physical structures, and the Greeks; originators of the word, never referred it, to be a building or place of worship, so at least Freeze got something right

At this juncture, some might say, all this etymology stuff is bunkum and time wasting, it's nitpicking over minute details, and that it's pedantic fault-finding or say church or ekklesia, whatever the noun used, it doesn't matter.
Others like damosky12, delighting in their ignorance(s), could say, church or ekklesia, it makes no difference,
it's much ado about nothing and so what's the big deal.

Well, FYI, in 1526 AD, William Tyndale's New Testament, was the first New Testament printed in the English Language
and the fact about this translation, is that, not a single occurrence of the word "church" is found used for congregation in it.

William Tyndale did however, use the word "church" twice in Acts 14:13 and Acts 19:37 for something else.
It was in reference to pagan Temples; "ekklesia" wasn't used in either of those verses mentioned.

Then Iupiters Preste which dwelt before their cite brought oxe and garlondes vnto the churche porche and wolde have done sacrifise with the people
- Acts 14:13 William Tyndale.

Zeus' temple was at the entrance to the city. The priest of the god Zeus brought bulls with flowery wreaths around their necks to the temple gates. The priest and the crowd wanted to offer a sacrifice [to Paul and Barnabas].
- Acts 14:13 GOD'S WORD® Translation.

For you have brought here these men, who are neither robbers of temples, nor yet blasphemers of your goddess.
- Acts 19:37 King James 2000 Bible

For ye have brought hyther these me whiche are nether robbers of churches nor yet despisers of youre goddes.
- Acts 19:37 William Tyndale.

Tyndale recognised, "ecclesia or ekklesia" to be congregacion or congregation of "called out people" who are believers
and that churches were buildings for religious practices or purposes, and this includes Jewish or pagan temples.

So, in this first English New Testament translation print, congregation originally was in the place where "church" is presently or currently found in most English translations.

In the beginning, building(s) was what "church" was original identified as,
but now, it's obvious and no denying that, "church" is prevalently also called or known as the body of Christ.
Examples of other churches, we have, as of today are:
The Church of Scientology, Church of Wicca, The National Church of Bey (i.e. Beyonce), Church of Satan,
The Sunday Assembly (i.e. an atheist church), The Church of Humanity etcetera.

1557 AD was the first time "ekklesia" was translated as "church" by William Whittingham in the Geneva New Testament produced, subsequent bible translations, KJV included, began having "church" used to describe people and their place of congregation or place of meetings too
From then to the present, the norm now is, "church" erroneously is the physical structure and people assembling together
Examples of this error and where are: Matthew 16:18, Acts 14:23, James 5:14

In the NT, we are used to knowing synagogue also to be an equivalent name of the building used for assembling in or congregating in, but the Greek word "sunagogé" means "coming together" and could imply a meeting (i.e. gathering together) rather than a building (i.e. Acts 13:43, James 2:2);
so synagogues were simply gatherings that took place outdoors or in people’s houses or courtyards
(i.e. refer to 2 Thessalonians 2:1 or Hebrews 10:25 Greek Text Analysis for more details)
TB Joshua’s set-up, calls itself synagogue,
but then for good measure, appends the word "church", making it: The Synagogue, Church Of All Nations (i.e. SCOAN)

The English word "church" on it's self, actually has pagan origins.
It's a derivation from the Old English word cir(i)ce, cyr(i)ce, related to the Anglo Saxon circay, kirk in Scottish, the Latin circus/circulous, Dutch kerk, or German Kirche.
These words all have associations with "gathering in circles"
and researches showed that most pagan religions meetings have worshippers/attendees gathered together round in prayer circles.

This information gives some insight into Tyndales' understanding
and the reason why Tyndale selected the word "Church" to refer to buildings; pagan temple(s) included
and consciously using congregacion (i.e. congregation) to mean "ekklesia"

Why was a totally unrelated word to ekklesia, substituted for ekklesia? (i.e. like in Job 14:4)

As so far noticed, the word "Church" has varied origins and different meanings to what we're accustomed to,
but the word in Latin for ekklesia is also ekklesia,
so, if Latin in the absence of a proper word, managed to retain the word ekklesia,
why couldn't the "called out ones" who translated, retain it too?

In light of all these information, why the word "church", is falsely used in place of Christ's ekklesia leaves one literally open-mouthed
No doubt, there are strong indications of foul-play somewhere down the history lanes of church,
as "church" DOESN'T COME from the original Koine Greek word ekklesia.

Wow. I have to really settle down to dihest all these info.

And, the bolded, those are certainly not subject to Christ, Is it safe to say, they gatherings are Churches but not Ekklesia?

There's so much into these things.

OkCornel:


Very insightful my brother.

Just to add a little to the de ja vu aspect on ekklesia where Eve was called out Adam, Israel out of Egypt, Abraham out of Ur e.t.c. is an evidence to show that God Almighty works in certain patterns to manifest His awesomeness...

Would you believe that recently, myself and some christian brothers and sisters have been meeting in each others' house to break bread (eat food together) and share words of TRUTH and reality in various homes? I didn't even have the slightest idea that this was ekklesia...just like the Apostolic church of old.

When it comes to matters of the written TRUTH, the minutest and finest of details really matters...and I am careful as possible not to fall under the illusion of synonyms...

The time for restoration has come.

By the way...is a copy of Tyndale's version of the Bible readily available?

Am glad you are a Christian, but you just don't believe in Tithing. That's okay.

But, there's something else am not very comfortable with you, you said somewhere that you don't believe everything in the Bible. Am sorry if am mistaking you for another moniker.

godisgood200:

Am glad you are a Christian, but you just don't believe in Tithing. That's okay.

But, there's something else am not very comfortable with you, you said somewhere that you don't believe everything in the Bible. Am sorry if am mistaking you for another moniker.

It's the same moniker sir.

As for the Bible (English versions precisely), I do not believe everything in there totally due to the various reasons:

1) The English Bible (KJV, Geneva 1599 versions) was translated from Latin and Greek scrolls which in turn were translated from Hebrew and Aramaic...in between these translations, errors were made by tired scribes. When you mix the TRUTH with a little error or lie...then what you have is deception. Bear in mind that the Bible is the perfect word of God written by imperfect men

2) Subsequent versions of the English Bible such as NIV, Message, e.t.c have further changed certain words from earlier English translations but this has watered down the TRUTH over time...for instance, if you examine the tithing controversy brewing currently...do your research, God instructed tithes to be paid in form of crop and livestock, but some Bible translations have converted these into money e.g. nickel and dimes...

3) My quest for the TRUTH is not limited to some books decided by the council of Nicaea which is now the Bible as we know it today. Only God knows if they had a sincere interest in selecting the books that made up the Bible...or whether there was a selfish interest/agenda they had to protect in connivance with the Roman government.

The major thing is to place your focus on the source (Spirit of God) for inspiration then the product (Bible) comes after that.

Where there's a contradiction between the source and the product...then there's an error or cleverly crafted lie hidden somewhere...because ideally...the source and the product must not contradict each other.

On a final note, I believe in Jesus Christ and everything He lived and died for...I prefer to addressed as a Truthseeker rather than a Christian.
That title called "Christianity" has been abused and bastardized over the years...

Let us all worship God (I do not mean God the Father alone) in Spirit and TRUTH

OkCornel:


It's the same moniker sir.

As for the Bible (English versions precisely), I do not believe everything in there totally due to the various reasons:

1) The English Bible (KJV, Geneva 1599 versions) was translated from Latin and Greek scrolls which in turn were translated from Hebrew and Aramaic...in between these translations, errors were made by tired scribes. When you mix the TRUTH with a little error or lie...then what you have is deception. Bear in mind that the Bible is the perfect word of God written by imperfect men

2) Subsequent versions of the English Bible such as NIV, Message, e.t.c have further changed certain words from earlier English translations but this has watered down the TRUTH over time...for instance, if you examine the tithing controversy brewing currently...do your research, God instructed tithes to be paid in form of crop and livestock, but some Bible translations have converted these into money e.g. nickel and dimes...

3) My quest for the TRUTH is not limited to some books decided by the council of Nicaea which is now the Bible as we know it today. Only God knows if they had a sincere interest in selecting the books that made up the Bible...or whether there was a selfish interest/agenda they had to protect in connivance with the Roman government.

The major thing is to place your focus on the source (Spirit of God) for inspiration then the product (Bible) comes after that.

Where there's a contradiction between the source and the product...then there's an error or cleverly crafted lie hidden somewhere...because ideally...the source and the product must not contradict each other.

On a final note, I believe in Jesus Christ and everything He lived and died for...I prefer to addressed as a Truthseeker rather than a Christian.
That title called "Christianity" has been abused and bastardized over the years...

Let us all worship God (I do not mean God the Father alone) in Spirit and TRUTH

Ok sir. Thanks for clearifying.

godisgood200:

Can i PM you? I am someone you can call 'A hungry soul'. I need more of God. I can't get filled. Pls reply me if i PM.

Of course you can, I would also like to know you and fellowship with you. To get my contact you can visit my blog ( hiswordxray.com ) and click on my picture at the foot of the blog. My contact would appear then we can chat on whatsapp. I am looking forward to chatting with you.

nicemuyoo:
Not at the moment but I know Mr femi Aribisala is a coordinator of one of such fellowships. Just people of like minds fellowshiping together, they have leaders and coordinators but no clergy/ laity division everyone is easily approachable, no pastors or bishops. NO pressure except encouragement to pursuit righteousness and help each other and community at large.

I would love to be in one of this fellowship can you direct me to one. There is a lot I must learn, please point me to one of this group.

Hiswordxray:

Of course you can, I would also like to know you and fellowship with you. To get my contact you can visit my blog ( hiswordxray.com ) and click on my picture at the foot of the blog. My contact would appear then we can chat on whatsapp. I am looking forward to chatting with you.

Amen.

godisgood200:

Ok sir. Thanks for clearifying.

You're welcome bro

Are you based in Nigeria?

Hiswordxray:

I would love to be in one of this fellowship can you direct me to one. There is a lot I must learn, please point me to one of this group.