God does not exist. Why?
- God contradicts Free Will of all living beings including itself.
- Evil and suffering contradict existence of a benevolent god.
- God is dangerous and religion is wrong
- Souls do not exist

Etc. Read it all at www.vexen.co.uk/religion/rm.html

Edited by Seun

My dear GOD exists. I even had to go through scientific premises to arrive at a conclusion  and its still d same GOD EXISTS. Myself and a whole lot of people have experienced the supernatural in our lives. I am learned enough to know when something is supernatural or just a coincidence. Even the so called coincidence that happen to several people under the same circumstances is not just a coincidence.
I can't attribute certain dreams to any encephalic operations. These are dreams and visions where u actually see specific things to happen in d future (which actually happens). These are not stuffs that can be deduced logically (e.g how on earth can you know that someone wearing a red jacket would stop you before gettin to work and make certains statement to you and the next day it actually happens).

It might have never happened to you before but it sure has happened to others. There is the spirit realm and that points to the fact that there is more to this life that the physical. U can't believe in that and not believe in GOD. The GOD u believe is a different topic but the fact remains ther is GOD.

The fact that GOD does not meet your own logical requirements of a supreme deity does not mean that there is no GOD.

To you "Its the absence of evidence NOT the evidence of absence".

God Exists

I really wonder how many times topics like this will be created. You people keep arguing by presenting theories and speculations, then arriving at irrational conclusions. Then you feel you've outsmarted the Christians or even God himself. Have you all ever asked yourself why the questions and doubts/arguments about God is getting hotter these days?

layi:

(e.g how on earth can you know that someone wearing a red jacket would stop you before gettin to work and make certains statement to you and the next day it actually happens).

I'm really waiting for someone to answer this question.

So the fact the someone dreams he will another human wearing a red shirt at 3pm the next day on his way back from work is evidence that God exists? Spare me. How many dreams have you had that have not till date come to pass? Dreams are described as a state of mind characterised by abstraction and release from reality. It is also described as a series of mental images and emotions occuring during sleep. That aside, people have been known to carry out astral travels (knowingly or unknowingly) and actualy see what is in the future. In what way is this a prove of the existence of God?

@layi, you claim to have had supernatural encounters. With who, where, in what form did this encounter take place? What is defined as supernatural? Can you give me one singular theory that supports the existence of God that does not have a flaw? Until such a time that you give me something tangible to work with, I still contend from my deductions that there is no God as portrayed by Revealed Religion as is presently constituted.

@Goodguy, what a laugh, give me your own rational conclusion on the subject matter. As to why the questions and arguements are getting hotter, has it occured to you that people are begining to get out of the clutches of dogma to excersice their intuitions and power of reasoning?

@Z4M4eva,

Z4M4eva:

God Exists

Lovely piece of logical thinking you have just exhibited. Only you forgot your proof at home.

God is as presently portrayed by organised religion is a creation of a thinking man to serve the purpose of men in want of a deity.

God Exists

@Elbaron, we have been dragging this issue on so many religious threads.

Tell me about the Bible prophecies (written almost/over 2000 yrs ago) that are being fulfilled today. What do you call those? Luck? Coincidence??

@Z4M4eva, concentrate on loving myke forever and leave things that are obviously beyond you especially since it doesn't have to do with Myke. I told you specifically in response to your first response to this post that you need to get your facts from home. However, you forgot them again. In this, therefore, go back to Myke and forget this thread. Otherwise, go home, get your facts and come back.

@Goodguy, which of the biblical pronouncements have come to pass? That the Jews would be saved from Egypt? Or that a son would be born unto a virgin? or what? The first part is easy, in todays mordern world, no nation is allowed to be held captive by another nation. Take for instance the liberation of Nigeria from the British colonialists. Why didn't the bible predict that one too? Or that of Iran from Iraq? Or the Bakassi issue. As to the second part, I still coherent evidence that there was anybody born whose name was called Jesus and whose conception was imaculate. Let's agree for one moment that Jesus lived in the period he was said to have lived, who is to say he was not a direct product of the efforts of Joseph and Mary on their matrimonial bed afterall they were engaged to be married at the time according to the bible.

Show me one piece of evidence and I will listen to you

You really expect everything that will happen in future to be in the Bible? I'm sure you will soon ask me why nairaland was not predicted in the Bible to have been established by Seun.

I'm actually too lazy to start typing all the prophecies that have been fulfilled. I'll refer you here rather:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-1892.32.html#msg139864
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-1892.32.html#msg139921

elbaron:

@Z4M4eva, concentrate on loving myke forever and leave things that are obviously beyond you especially since it doesn't have to do with Myke. I told you specifically in response to your first response to this post that you need to get your facts from home. However, you forgot them again. In this, therefore, go back to Myke and forget this thread. Otherwise, go home, get your facts and come back.

@Goodguy, which of the biblical pronouncements have come to pass? That the Jews would be saved from Egypt? Or that a son would be born unto a virgin? or what? The first part is easy, in todays mordern world, no nation is allowed to be held captive by another nation. Take for instance the liberation of Nigeria from the British colonialists. Why didn't the bible predict that one too? Or that of Iran from Iraq? Or the Bakassi issue. As to the second part, I still coherent evidence that there was anybody born whose name was called Jesus and whose conception was imaculate. Let's agree for one moment that Jesus lived in the period he was said to have lived, who is to say he was not a direct product of the efforts of Joseph and Mary on their matrimonial bed afterall they were engaged to be married at the time according to the bible.

Show me one piece of evidence and I will listen to you

Pls Leave Myke out of this,he's got nowt to do with this,pls

@Z4M4eva, nobody said Myke had anything to do with it. All I said was that since you dont have any facts supporting your arguement you should concentrate on loving Myke as your byline says. Maybe you will do better in that department.

@Goodguy, I cant believe a guy of your intellect will send me on this sort of wild goose chase. Have you realised that everything contained in that thread is gibberish, conjectures and wishful thinking. As someone asked LadyC in that thread: Are you into science fiction? Because there is no pronouncement contained in that post that has anything to do with the biblical passages quoted to support them.

@Z4M4eva, nobody said Myke had anything to do with it. All I said was that since you don't have any facts supporting your arguement you should concentrate on loving Myke as your byline says. Maybe you will do better in that department.

Whatever

Exactly.

Yeah, Exactly

@Elbaron: Maybe you didn't see the parts I really wanted you to read. Anyway, check these links:

http://www.harpazo.net/101/List.html
http://www.evenmore.co.uk/prophecy/ - check What it all means | Javier Solana - Antichrist? | Mark of the Beast | Europa and The Beast | The Rapture

I wish you good luck in your findings!

The bible says...... the fool said in his heart,there is no God.Only a fool says there is no God.Its in the bible,no be me talk am.He that has eyes,let him read!!!

snazzydawn:

The bible says...... the fool said in his heart,there is no God.Only a fool says there is no God.Its in the bible,no be me talk am.He that has eyes,let him read!!!

This is a very weak retreat into ignorance. You cannot use the product of an entity you need to prove as proof for it's existance.
I will post a proof of the logical impossibility of the monotheistic God based on the characteristics of God (omniscience, omnipotence, omnibenevolence, immutability, unintelligable)
Stay tuned

PS: this will not be a proof that God does not exist, only that the specific God of the 3 great monotheistic religions cannot exist and is self contradictory. It is impossible to prove the non-existence of the God concept in it's broadest terms.

@Nferyn, thank you for answering this person from Uyo. You said it in a much better way than I could have. What the original post is about is to prove that God as portrayed by Revealed Religion does not and cannot exist. However, people will not look beyond their myopic ways of reasoning to examine facts and juxtapose them with the realities of life before rushing into premature conclusions. Once again, thank you for replying the lady in such elegant fashion.

God doesnt only exist, he is in absolute control over his creation

Any proof?

without God, there is no man.  If there is no God, then where did you and I come from? I find it very difficult to believe that we all just dropped from the sky one day.  God is the only reasonable and concrete source of our existance.

elbaron said:

God does not exist.  Why?
- God contradicts Free Will of all living beings including itself.
- Evil and suffering contradict existence of a benevolent god.
- God is dangerous and religion is wrong
- Souls do not exist

--God in no way contradicts the Free Will of all living beings.  In fact, He does the exact opposite of this. each and every one of us is given the opportunity each day to think for ourselves and make decisions. if we did not have Free Will, then we would not be able to sin, and Adam and Eve would not have been allowed to eat from the fruit of the tree of knowledge in the Garden of Eden.  God simply tells us what is right and wrong, but He does not make our decisions for us or force us to do anything. God is there if [and only if] we need His support or His guidance.

--God did not create evil.  People created evil.  God made a world that was perfect and man turned it into an evil and unpleasant place to live in.  there is so much hate and suffering in today's world because of the ignorance of the human race and because of the lack of love for one another.  God Himself suffers even more than we do when He sees what has become of the world He created.  God is like a father who sadly watches as his child drifts away--except with God it is different because of the unconditional love He has for his children that is so hard for regular humans to comprehend.

--the lack of God and religion is dangerous.  I am not only saying this because I am Christian and it's what's expected of me, but because I truly believe it deep within my heart.  I have had personal experiences in life where I have repeatedly made bad choices and I everytime I quickly found myself depressed and burdened by my sins.  God is the only one who can free us from sin and who can keep us sane in this crazy and dangerous world.

--how can souls not exist? if they didn't exist then there would be no life and you and I would just be dead bodies.

but the most important thing you need to know is that God loves you.  and He will always love each of us, regardless of how badly we treat Him or how many bad things we say about Him.  He will one day reveal to us the truth about everything and everyone will be convinced once and for all.

@ Mosaic2, thanks for your post. Does your entire concept and explanation not sound contradictory even to yourself? You contend that God did not create evil when the same bible you have tells you that God made everything? Let us assume that man created evil or to put it in your own words, if man has made the world evil and if we are to further agree that God made man in his own image, does that not follow that God must have certain parts of him that are evil? Wont you agree that for man to know evil he must have learnt it from somewhere? Of course we can argue that man learnt from Satan, but God himself created this Satan. Am I making sense?

Did you say that God is hurt when he sees what his world has come to? If we must speculate to that, would it not, as a matter of simple logic follow, that God had no idea at the time of creation what his world would turn to? And if we agree that this is correct, would it not be safe to assume that God is not omnipotent? A god who does not have foresight does not appear to me to be all powerful. Let's think about these things.

elbaron:

@Z4M4eva, concentrate on loving myke forever and leave things that are obviously beyond you especially since it doesn't have to do with Myke. ..

Make we clap for you or wetin happen? Z4M4eva didn't post anything about Myke...so why that detour from nowhere?! I would see the sense of your postulations if you took time out to adduce rational proof for your own claim as you ask others to do, rather than sounding so unfriendly to almost everyone who believes in God. Reading your own arguments leaves me laffing because like many of your type you didn't even present logical 'supporting facts' for your claim, but you spend all your time trying to pick holes in everyone's presentation. Okay, God is dangerous...religion is dangerous..this and that is dangerous, and the other is a mind-game. If religion makes people less derisive, that alone speaks volumes in positive light to me. Haba! If God didn't exist, then I take it that you know everything - because only someone who knows everything from start to finish can categorically state that something does not exist.

Make some sense - U'll do far better if you present your piece in a more friendly tone;

or... just 4get me

nferyn:

It is impossible to prove the non-existence of the God concept in it's broadest terms.

I'm seeing this again - and a good one. Some who say that God does not exist will do well to note that "It is impossible to "prove" the non-existence of ...God... in it's broadest terms."

4g_m.

4get_me:



I'm seeing this again - and a good one. Some who say that God does not exist will do well to note that "It is impossible to "prove" the non-existence of ...God... in it's broadest terms."

4g_m.

Yes, and it's equally impossible to prove that God does exist in whichever terms you may choose

@4get_me, first I wish to apologise if I have offended you or anybody else. Believe me that was not the intention. What you take for strong dislike for people who believe in god is in actuality a display, though subconsciously, of my passion for the subject matter. It is not my intention to sound derogatory to anyone. On the other hand, when I am personally attacked, I try to give back as good as I get. And just like you have told me that I dont make sense, so do I tell others who make no sense to me. Now if this is a source of worry to you, I cannot help it, maybe what you should have done is advice everybody on the forum to be civil, maybe that was an oversight.

Back to the post, let me start from your last paragraph

If God didn't exist, then I take it that you know everything - because only someone who knows everything from start to finish can categorically state that something does not exist.

Will you be amazed if I told you that I dont know everything? I bet not, because even the god portrayed in your religin does not know everything, you want proof of that? He definitely did not know that Adam and Eve will eat of the forbidden tree, if he did, he would not have "repented" of creating man. If he did, he would not have stated that "Man has become like one of us, let us lock him out of the garden that he may not eat of the tree of life and live forever". Do you see my point? No, I do not know everything and I doubt there is any one man living who does, but I know enough to question issues and a mythical existence without proof

I will ignore your post as to my response to z4m4eva, the only reason I am doing that is because, I sincerely believe you took the entire response out of context, forgetting the fact that my response to her was simply a plea for her to either get her facts together and present a logical arguement of concentrate on other things, the fact that I asked her to go back to loving myke was simply because she has a passion for loving him and in my opinion she would do better there instead of posting a one liner response without any sort of background or proof supporting it. In this, therefore, I will ignore your comments regarding this.

You mentioned that I did not present any logical supporting facts. Maybe our problem is with the interpretation of what is logical and what are supporting facts. If this be not the case, the only other alternative would be to assume that you either do not understand the written english or you were too consumed with the passion to lash out at me that you did not take a moment to read the original post. If the latter be the case, dont worry about it, you are not alone, there are millions of people who do not take their time to study literature before they swallow it, organised religion practitioners are one of those, so dont worry. However, if it is that you did not read the original post, I suggest, with utmost respect, that you do so. And if you do, you will see for yourself that you will be able to gather relevant facts to counter the arguements and address any of the issues specifically, believe me, if that happens, you will not even have the time to lash out at me.

Oh, just in case you are wondering where god said he doesn't want man to live forever check Genesis chapter 3 from verse 22 to verse 24 and here is the text of those scriptures

22 Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— 23 therefore the LORD God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. 24 So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.

(Scriptural text is taken from the New King James version of the bible).

elbaron,
All you needed to have said to Z4M4eva was that she got her facts - instead, you went beyond bounds to personal matters, albeit you claimed it was your "passion" for the subject at hand. Second, was my diction too difficult for you that you stated I did "not understand the written English"? (If you must know, there should be no article before "written English"!). That wasn't civil on your part. Third, you are yet to advance "proof" - your own proof - that God does not exist. Instead, you tried to pick holes in Genesis to claim that God was not perfect in knowledge. I'm yet to see your own point of view. When you claim that "God does not exist" and in the same breath state that "God is dangerous," you sound contradictory to yourself. How could someone who does not exist yet become dangerous at the same time? It's alright for you not to believe in God - He might be imperfect to you and all that; but there is a God, and you're not Him.

4get_me,

For God to exist he needs to be detectable in some way. If he is in principle undetectable, then God is outside the bounds of human knowledge and no-one can claim knowledge of him.
If he is detectable, you need to be able to define his attributes in a non-contradictory manner, so that we may have something to detect him by.

If you cannot do that, it is utterly useless to even talk about God, let alone saying that [i]elbaron [/i]needs to disprove God

Betrand Russell had the following to say about this issue:

Many orthodox people speak as though it were the business of sceptics to disprove received dogmas rather than of dogmatists to prove them. This is, of course, a mistake. If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.

4get_me, fair enough, I totally agree with you. Shall we start another thread as to aceeptability of the word "the written english"? Surely you must know that there is "THE written English and THE Spoken English". As for Z4M4Eva, I do not see how that affects the matter at hand, unless you are the myke to begin with. Having said that, shall we let that issue lie? It is not the subject matter of this thread.

To correct your point of view, it was not my objective to provide proof of my own as to the existence of god. My objective was to use the very core of the christian believe as proof that there is no god. To that effect, I believe I have been largely successful. Does this make sense? Maybe not. I will try putting it another way. My purpose was to subject the evidence or pieces of evidence as stipulated in biblical writtings to critical analysis and find out if it will hold on it's own against pure rational logic. My intention was to apply the writtings against logic. My intention was to project a logical analysis of biblical writtings in an atmosphere devoid of dogma. Do you know the result? Of course you do, you responses exemplifies the result. Abyssmal failure. Do I need further proof? Do I need to condescend to conjectures so as to presents issues that will not stand the test of logic? No, I will not go that route, I have done what I set out to do, if it is not satisfactory to you, disprove them. Apply logic and attempt an explanation. As a matter of fact, go beyond logic and apply spirituality to explain it, so long as we are in the know as to the spiritual steps or reasonings you may have used to arrive at your conclusions.

If you are unable to do this, I will suggest to you what I suggest to Z4M4Eva, go home and get your facts, otherwise, concentrate on issues that are more to your understanding. By the way, I shall habe you know that when the word "THE" is directly preceding the word "Written English" the connotation is that the word "Written english" is used as a branch of the english language. Does that make sense?

elbaron,
Ask your teacher and I'm sure he or she would tell you better about the use of articles in spoken or written English. The context in which you used it above was clearly wrong. I'm aware of "THE Spoken English" and "The Written English" treated as subjects; and it does not appear that you used "the" in that context. Again, I followed the thread and found that Z4M4Eva only said "God Exists" twice, and the next thing you did was take a detour. I'm not the Myke in question, but I find it rather quizzical that you went that far. I wonder why you have a penchant to be so derisive.

Secondly, I know what atheists are wont to do: and you predictably towed that line - "...it was not my objective to provide proof of my own as to the existence of god." I don't expect you would. (I'm not labelling you an atheist). Wouldn't it have made sense if you provided proof outside the Bible to buttress your claim? It would make some sense, perhaps, if I tried to pray and you offered to explain why "God does not exist" and yet "God is dangerous". If I prayed according to your logic and indeed found He was dangerous even if He did not exist, then you would have made your point. However, my own experience shows that claim to be ever so false. Why? Simply because I have prayed to God for healing when I was seriously ill, and have been healed. I have also prayed for a nephew and had seen him instantly healed. This actually happened in 2004. It would be irrational for me to "prove" that the healing actually took place, just as you cannot "prove" it never happened. That is one true experience that convinces me beyond dogmas, philosophies and theology that God does exist. It may not sound "logical" to you, but you cannot disprove its reality. Incidentally, no skeptic by whatever badge has been able to provide healing to those whose illnesses defied medical practice.

If believers of whatever faith attest to the fact that the supernatural does exist, because they have experienced it for themselves, why would anyone want to make a sweeping, categorical statement without logical "proof" or evidence that God does not exist? Bertrand Russell does not present anything to the effect of the non-existence of God. I had hoped to see a reasoned and informed presentation with evidence of your own that "God is dangerous" because "God does not exist"!

Let's just be civil and keep the subject in clear view...or, just 4get_me.

Can the bible provide any other source of proof outside of itself? I have told you what I set out to do. I do not think it fair that you tell me what you think I should do. I have done what I set out to do, the day i decide provide my own proof as to the existence of god, I certainly will do so. In the mean time, do you have any thing to counter my observations?

elbaron:

... I have told you what I set out to do. I do not think it fair that you tell me what you think I should do.

elbaron,

Easy..I didn't mean to put you on the hot seat, so to speak. I have no right at all to tell you or anyone else what to do not do. I'm waiting to see the day you provide your own proof that God does exist. And when I have any thread of interest to amuse myself with questions of the non-existence of God, you'll read my post to that effect.

I apologise if my piece rattled your nerves in any way... I'm often seeking to make friends and then...

Just 4get_me