If you take a look at our world, the sun, the stars, the moon, mountains, the beautiful landscape and gardens etc. There is no way you would conclude from these things that a Jewish man was sent, by the creator, to die for your sins or that Allah is the one of true God. How then did man come to know these things?

Since evolution doesn't negate design (an issue discussed in one of johnydon22 topics), the early uneducated man is not at fault to say that the universe was designed by an intelligent creator. Infact there is no way to prove or disprove that. The problem is when a man says he knows this creator, he knows what the creator wants, he speaks with the creator and that this creator has a son that was sent to die for us. How did he know that? On what basis should the claim of such a man be taken seriously?

Why can't you christians and muslim understand that it is one thing to say that a God exists and it's another thing to say that this God is yahweh/Allah? Both are different cases that require separate proofs. On what basis did the proponents of Islam and Christianity have to say that there is a god AND that God is who is described in their holy book? How can you be sure they are not lying?

There are many religions in the world and each claiming to be right. When you ask any of the followers of any religion to give you proof, they turn to their holy book (be it christian, muslim or any major world religion). This mirrors the activities of different insecticide companies claiming that their brand is the best. Why can't we ask for proof? The writers of the bible knew that they were lying about their concept of God so, in order to escape from being asked to present proof, they made it that "the Lord shall not be put to the test"

If god can't be tested or verified, on what basis should a rational man accept God? The writer's of the Bible didn't stop there, they knew that the only way one would accept their ridiculous garbage is to take their word for it, hence they devised the concept of blind faith and made it a virtue (when in fact blind faith is stupid). The story of Abraham being willing sacrificing his son, the exhortation of Abraham as a hero of faith and the conversation between Jesus and Thomas were written to subconsciously programme the mind of a christian to take blind faith as a virtue and not to question our belief even in the most absurd cases. Well, smart move by the bible writers since knew that it's only by blind faith can a man buy into Christianity.

I have more to write but I will stop here. I ask again on what basis can a rational man accept the claims of religion? How did someone know, by look at this world that there is a creator AND that creator is the one given in their holy book? How can your be certain that prophets and clergy men are not lying? Why can't you religious folks understand that no one knows how the universe was created? Why can't you all understand that saying there is a God is one thing and saying that this God is the one described in your holy book?

HopefulLandord, HardMirror, Johnydon22, hahn, 1Sharon, 0temSapien, Nilfeim, proudgorgeousga, Tozara, Catfishbilly, donffd, adepeter2027, decide, dalaman, segunojo886, akintom etc.

This is a take from HopefulLandord.

An omnipresent God is everywhere which he is there with you whatever your location.
An omniscient God knows that I need to be saved and he knows what to do to convince me of his existence and save me.
An omnipotent God can do that which would convince me of his existence.
A benevolent God would want me to saved.

Given the above, one should be willing to ask for proof of God's existence for one's self instead of depending on someone who says that the spirit of God spoke to him. You can't rule out the possibility that he is lying. I know that if christians seek proof for yahweh's existence, they would never find it instead they will find flaws in christianity and evidence that it is ridiculous garbage. So my fellow christians what are waiting for? Start questioning.

the problem with you guys is that you won't believe in a supernatural been but won't mind your believe and leave others to mind there's.
you disagree with the biblical explanation as to how we got here yet you won't tell us eighter.
I will start taking you guys serious when you are able to tell me how I got here.
..you disagree with intelligent design for our existence and its funny how nothing has ever come into existence on its own devoid of intelligent manipulation.
the phone you are using to type this trash was design,.look around you and see if there is anything outside nature you see that is not design but just came into existence by accident..
look at how your body part are perfectly designed to function perfectly.
..man and woman created with there respective organs for reproduction ,yet you would say its by accident..since you guys won't believe in God why can't you stay away from the temptation of wanting prove from people who chose to believe?...no body is under oath to provide evidence of God beyond what is in his holly book to you guys..I only see that you guys are not even sure of your claims that's why you fear so much for "What if it is true?"... and I can tell you that it is true.....make up your mind now that you still can to use your brain..you as a human alone,is undisputable Prove that we were created by an intelligent been....

Ever8054:
the problem with you guys is that you won't believe in a supernatural been but won't mind your believe and leave others to mind there's.
you disagree with the biblical explanation as to how we got here yet you won't tell us eighter.
I will start taking you guys serious when you are able to tell me how I got here.
..you disagree with intelligent design for our existence and its funny how nothing has ever come into existence on its own devoid of intelligent manipulation.
the phone you are using to type this trash was design,.look around you and see if there is anything outside nature you see that is not design but just came into existence by accident..
look at how your body part are perfectly designed to function perfectly.
..man and woman created with there respective organs for reproduction ,yet you would say its by accident..since you guys won't believe in God why can't you stay away from the temptation of wanting prove from people who chose to believe?...no body is under oath to provide evidence of God beyond what is in his holly book to you guys..I only see that you guys are not even sure of your claims that's why you fear so much for "What if it is true?"... and I can tell you that it is true.....make up your mind now that you still can to use your brain..you as a human alone,is undisputable Prove that we were created by an intelligent been....

I disdain people like you who can't think and be sincere with themselves. Now tell me, is it a bad thing to admit one doesn't know? Must there always be an available answer? So anyone that has an explanation is correct?

Didn't you read where I wrote that we can't prove or disapprove the existence of a creator? What is bad if I say that I don't know but I am sure that religion is ridiculous garbage? I won't let it be because religion is great evil and it has poisoned the human race for too long.

Ever8054:
the problem with you guys is that you won't believe in a supernatural been but won't mind your believe and leave others to mind there's.
you disagree with the biblical explanation as to how we got here yet you won't tell us eighter.
I will start taking you guys serious when you are able to tell me how I got here.
..you disagree with intelligent design for our existence and its funny how nothing has ever come into existence on its own devoid of intelligent manipulation.
the phone you are using to type this trash was design,.look around you and see if there is anything outside nature you see that is not design but just came into existence by accident..
look at how your body part are perfectly designed to function perfectly.
..man and woman created with there respective organs for reproduction ,yet you would say its by accident..since you guys won't believe in God why can't you stay away from the temptation of wanting prove from people who chose to believe?...no body is under oath to provide evidence of God beyond what is in his holly book to you guys..I only see that you guys are not even sure of your claims that's why you fear so much for "What if it is true?"... and I can tell you that it is true.....make up your mind now that you still can to use your brain..you as a human alone,is undisputable Prove that we were created by an intelligent been....

so because science doesn’t know how we came into existence, you’re now saying it’s god. because you don’t understand something is not an evidence for god, it’s an evidence of lack of understanding So you believe the myth created by the golden age bronze men that we came from Adam and Eve and also Elijah flying into the sky and a talking snake... common, you’re a 21st century man

from a traditionalist point of view.....
evolution does not negate design, that is a correct observation from johnydon ....i even applaud that thread....

but the problems is this which my fellow theists are victim of, is calling God an intelligent designer .....God is more than an intelligent designer....calling GOD an intelligent designer will amount to the tendency of looking for God in the gaps of scientific explanation....God evidence is beyond science reach......God is not a testable object which is the main point of science.

God is the one who imparts being to the whole of created reality and who enables all of the powers of causation within creation.GOD is simply an explanation of every natural phenomenon and not to be found in the gap.......so johnnydon was wrong when he said God design is not perfect.....you can not explain GOD through science.....all creature live and move and have their being in God. manifesting in their divine logos


GOD can be called any name so far it praise him......yahweh,allah, olodumare are languages,,,,,when i pray alone i call God by the name olodumare but when i am talking to non yoruba speaker, i either use GOD or jah....there is one GOD and he is the creator of all but we all choose to call him the name that fit our mental convenience.....let me ask you a question why do we call earth, earth? who do the naming ceremony?.......

every religion is valid so long it promote love and peace..... i agree some doctrine of much of them may not be perfect but there is no absolute laid back religion

atheism can not offer or replace the benefit of a religion .....ko le work

hakeem4:
so because science doesn’t know how we came into existence, you’re now saying it’s god. because you don’t understand something is not an evidence for god, it’s an evidence of lack of understanding So you believe the myth created by the golden age bronze men that we came from Adam and Eve and also Elijah flying into the sky and a talking snake... common, you’re a 21st century man

Don't mind the moniker.

hakeem4:
so because science doesn’t know how we came into existence, you’re now saying it’s god. because you don’t understand something is not an evidence for god, it’s an evidence of lack of understanding So you believe the myth created by the golden age bronze men that we came from Adam and Eve and also Elijah flying into the sky and a talking snake... common, you’re a 21st century man

yes I believe everything that is written in the bible... how does that reduce me from been a 21st century man...?..

vaxx:
from a traditionalist point of view.....
evolution does not negate design, that is a correct observation from johnydon ....i even applaud that thread....

but the problems is this which my fellow theists are victim of, is calling God an intelligent designer .....God is more than an intelligent designer....calling GOD an intelligent designer will amount to the tendency of looking for God in the gaps of scientific explanation....God evidence is beyond science reach......God is not a testable object which is the main point of science.

God is the one who imparts being to the whole of created reality and who enables all of the powers of causation within creation.GOD is simply an explanation of every natural phenomenon and not to be found in the gap.......so johnnydon was wrong when he said God design is not perfect.....you can not explain GOD through science.....all creature live and move and have their being in God. manifesting in their divine logos


GOD can be called any name so far it praise him......yahweh,allah, olodumare are languages,,,,,when i pray alone i call God by the name olodumare but when i am talking to non yoruba speaker, i either use GOD or jah....there is one GOD and he is the creator of all but we all choose to call him the name that fit our mental convenience.....let me ask you a question why do we call earth, earth? who do the naming ceremony?.......

every religion is valid so long it promote love and peace..... i agree some doctrine of much of them may not be perfect but there is no absolute laid back religion

atheism can not offer or replace the benefit of a religion .....ko le work

thank you my brother... you dey mind this ones?..sheun don create nairaland for everything to come dey claim atheist wey them no even know the meaning.....

Ever8054:
yes I believe everything that is written in the bible... how does that reduce me from been a 21st century man...?..

why don’t you believe those stories about tortoise also. It doesn’t reduce bro, it just makes you sound funny

hakeem4:
why don’t you believe those stories about tortoise also. It doesn’t reduce bro, it just makes you sound funny

If a man has chosen not to have sense in life, there's nothing you can do about it. Stupid folks will carry their stupidity to the grave. It will always turn out to be a waste of time engaging stupid ones in intellectual argument. What is in my op that is too hard to understand? Yet the first person to reply my post started off with a question that shows he never read my op or if he read it, didn't understood a thing of what I wrote.

" how does believing in the bible make me less of a 21st?" Ever8054 asked. This is a stupid thing to ask as the 21st century is an age of information. Go get information and stop being ignorant.

Martinez19:
If a man has chosen not to have sense in life, there's nothing you can do about it. Stupid folks will carry their stupidity to the grave. It will always turn out to be a waste of time engaging stupid ones in intellectual argument. What is in my op that is too hard to understand? Yet the first person to reply my post started off with a question that shows he never read my op or if he read it, didn't understood a thing of what I wrote.

" how does believing in the bible make me less of a 21st?" Ever8054 asked. This is a stupid thing to ask as the 21st century is an age of information. Go get information and stop being ignorant.

3 difficult people to advise
1) a lady in love
2) a man with money
3) a theist

hakeem4:
3 difficult people to advise
1) a lady in love
2) a man with money
3) a theist

I couldn't agree more. To generalise, it would be
1) a person in love
2) someone with money or/and authority
3) a stupid person.

Ever8054:
thank you my brother... you dey mind this ones?..sheun don create nairaland for everything to come dey claim atheist wey them no even know the meaning.....

This is a direct quote from an anonymous author ....

''When I light an electric torch…I don't judge its power by looking at the bulb, but by seeing how many objects it lights up…The value of a religious, or more generally, a spiritual way of life, is appreciated by the amount of illumination it throws upon the things of this world.''

vaxx:
This is a direct quote from an anonymous author ....

''When I light an electric torch…I don't judge its power by looking at the bulb, but by seeing how many objects it lights up…The value of a religious, or more generally, a spiritual way of life, is appreciated by the amount of illumination it throws upon the things of this world.''

Religion throws no illumination to life. Besides, the truthfulness of religious claims is the crux of this issue. Even if religion is positively influencial those that make the claim true?

Martinez19:
Religion throws no illumination to life. Besides, the truthfulness of religious claims is the crux of this issue. Even if religion is positively influencial those that make the claim true?

A true claim is a proposition that a particular person or believe system hold to be true , it does not necessarily mean that is absolute.....at least ....atheism make their own truth claim.... they specifically claim that no deity or deities is existing....religion on the other hand make claim on human nature or laws of nature....

for you to conclude and say religious claim is false ,you must have carry out the method of truth verification..... so i put it to you, how do you verify truth claim? religious has provided two method of truth verification....the materialistic aspect(the use of the five senses) and its opposite(the spirituality)....

vaxx:
A true claim is a proposition that a particular person or believe system hold to be true , it does not necessarily mean that is absolute.....at least ....atheism make their own truth claim.... they specifically claim that no deity or deities is existing....religion on the other hand make claim on human nature or laws of nature....

for you to conclude and say religious claim is false ,you must have carry out the method of truth verification..... so i put it to you, how do you verify truth claim? religious has provided two method of truth verification....the materialistic aspect(the use of the five senses) and its opposite(the spirituality)....

.

Martinez19:
.

i love the cute white boy