MuttleyLaff:
Day went well Ma'am.
I am now just lounging on my chaise trying to unwind
Trust yours went well.

Emmanystone:

I have sir, and says what i stand for. Sex is good. Nothing sinful about it, but during Fasting and prayers abstain, but resume immediately after it.

6 I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7 I wish that all of you were as I am. But each of you has your own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.

8 Now to the unmarried[a] and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

10 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11 But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.

12 To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13 And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy

Sarassin:


Still a bit mixed up. You say the Corinthians were not patriarchal but you then go on to say that the letters were addressed to the Jews, who were indeed highly patriarchal, so my original proposition still holds. The command to women to hold their peace in church had nothing to do with societal issues as you put it, it was more to do with the fact that early Christian leaders at that time considered that women could not think for themselves, lacked intelligence and could not hold intellectual doctrinal discourse, read the writings of Tertullian on the matter.

@bolded, I disagree entirely

MuttleyLaff:


My invited guests are cultured

Sarassin:


Well my dear, probably you should draw a deep breathe and read it through again or maybe something was lost in transcription. If you say the Holy Spirit disclosed this to you then fine, my lips are forever sealed.

FlipGamBino:


Now the principal reason for fasting is to enter what one can refer to as "A state of Grace", but then; this is but one of many pathways. Now the question is 'what is demanded from he who seeks to enter the "Grace of God"?, one very important requirement is maturity, within all traditions a level of general maturity is required, this includes physical, spiritual and even mental maturity, to this effect a lot of effort is put to focusing ones mind on very little through this period of fasting.

Sex is by no means canal within any period of marriage under the edicts of the Divine. As a matter of fact Sex is divine in nature. What matters more is the issue of expedience and within Sarassin's context, consent within this process. Thank you.

Emmanystone:

To begin with, i didn't make the post you quoted from. I don't know who did. So, i won't be responding to this.

MuttleyLaff:
[img]https://s1/images/muttDuckEyed.jpg[/img]

Emmanystone:

Why not have it during fasting? I believe sex in its entirety is Spiritual. You and i are on the same side. But, why not have it during fasting is my querry.

Emmanystone:

Why not have it during fasting? I believe sex in its entirety is Spiritual. You and i are on the same side. But, why not have it during fasting is my querry.

MuttleyLaff:
Want is not the same as do
One doesnt leave HRH in positions not to be pleased about

butterflyl1on:


Your topic is on fasting and prayer but the scriptures focus on PRAYER and not fasting.

Also, right from 1st Corinthians chapter 6:12 Paul laid a foundation against sexual immorality. He then went on to tackle the main question he was asked based on the foundation he laid which was against sexual immorality.

He said the only time a man and his wife should PERHAPS abstain (that word PERHAPS) shows Paul was speaking as an advice and not as a command and not based on what the spirit of God ministered to him but based on his own observations. This is confirmed in verse 6 of chapter 7 where Paul said and I quote




He then went further to separate Gods command from his own advice below
.

FlipGamBino:


As we can agree we are on the same side with regards sex and spirituality I will quote from the scripture...."All things are lawful, but not all things are expedient". Questioning its morality within or without fasting periods is something i personally do not agree with.

MizMyColi:


?

Mbanu.
I don't agree.
Sex can't be spiritual in it's entirety.

Pray tell, is moaning spiritual?

FlipGamBino:


If it wasn't your post we wouldn't be having a conversation at all....all i did was click quote. You needn't respond. I really wasn't expecting any.

Soteriahascome:
Having sex with your wife is highly spiritual and should only be avoided with consent...

MizMyColi:
Yes, it is carnal.
I agree.

People should not have sex in marriage.

Marriage is not meant for sex.

Sex in marriage, sorry, fasting, defies the matrimonial bed.

When you fast, you should not talk to your hubby either.

Remove your self from the world.

Oil and water don't mix.

The things of God and the things of man don't mix either.

You are either here or there.

No inbetweeners.

Jesus will spit you out!

LoJ:

Ladies and Gents we have reason to celebrate. Flipcambino is in the e-house!

How far buddy?

LoJ:

Ahaha. Okay I will pay for the ladies if and only if Sarassin comes along. Ohh perhaps he could be fasting then

Sarassin:


Of course, a jug of Weissbier on ice for me, and an amply endowed fraulein to serve it...just to serve it ooh..nothing else!

Emmanystone:

The Letter was addressed to the Corinthian belivers who weren't so patriachial as a result of their allegiance to female deities, unlike the Jews who knew YHWH as male only.
@bolded, i also disagree with you entirely. Paul was solving a case of disorderliness in the church. He was setting up rules how the church setting should be run.

If this is about orderliness, it then follows that women were causing disorderliness, hence; needed to be tamed and kept in control.

If you say women were considered less humans by even the Apostles, you'd have to explain why the Holy Spirit was given to them in the same measure which was given to the men. Or was He given to the men only?

Emmanystone:

Hahahahahahahaha. Kai. You just said exactly what my friend said. She even went further to demonstrate a doggy asking if that too was spiritual. She asked what was spiritual about kissing and her husband sucking her breast. Laf wan kee me.

My sis. Everything about Sex is Spiritual. That we enjoy it and moan doesn't make it sinful. No.

God intends that we enjoy it, that's the only way we can keep doing it to fulfill his commandment, 'Go into the world and multiply'.

lolzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Emmanystone:

Now, i'm sad. You didn't invite me.

Emmanystone:

This is so not correct, at least from the stand point of the scriptures.

Emmanystone:

My topic is not on Fasting and prayer sir. My topic is on' Why couples shd abstain from sex during fasting period. They can do it during just prayers, but during fasting, No. Why?

The Scripture says, the only time couples can deny each other sex is 'except or unless' they had agreed to engage in a fast after which, they should resume.

Sir, i didn't see PERHAPS in that verse, i saw 'Unless or except.'

5 Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6 I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7 I wish that all of you were as I am. But each of you has your own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.

Sarassin:


Allegiance and worship of a female deity did not alter the patriarchal nature of first century Roman Empire and lest we forget even the worship of Asherah persisted in the Jerusalem Temple well into the First century, the Jews were no less patriarchal. In any event, early church members were mainly Greek speaking Jews in diaspora.

It was not disorderliness that lead to Paul commanding women to keep shtum in Church, this command was drawn from prevailing societal attitudes of the day, as you may or may not know amongst other things a Jewish woman may not address another man in public unless she was with her husband or her father. Early Christian writings tell us that women were considered emotional, unreasonable and given to flights of fancy that made them unsuitable for elevated positions. The fact that women received the Holy ghost or Spirit is rather irrelevant, we are talking about societal norms and not spiritual largesse.

The disorderliness that you refer to was more about sundry issues within the church, for instance in one Church (I cannot remember which one at the moment) fights would break out at feast times because by the time working church members arrived at church after work, those who were jobless and sitting around in the church all day would have feasted and drank heavily leaving those who actually went out to work with nothing to eat, it was such sundry issues like these that Paul dealt with.

Emmanystone:
Well, that may be true, but the Corinthians to whom this letter was addressed wasn't that Patriarchal, that's because of their acceptance of goddesses as Supreme deities.
It was for the Jews, not necessarily for the Greeks.

We see how that manifested in women trying to bring the society into the church where women ruled over men in the society,
so brought it into the Church, hence; the command for women to keep silent in Church.

And, when it comes to the bed, you'd be surprised how strong men melt. Patriarchy hardly comes up in bed. Except the man doesn't love his wife.

Sarassin:
Still a bit mixed up.
You say the Corinthians were not patriarchal
but you then go on to say that the letters were addressed to the Jews, who were indeed highly patriarchal,
so my original proposition still holds.
The command to women to hold their peace in church had nothing to do with societal issues as you put it,
it was more to do with the fact that early Christian leaders
at that time considered that women could not think for themselves, lacked intelligence
and could not hold intellectual doctrinal discourse, read the writings of Tertullian on the matter.

@bolded, I disagree entirely

Emmanystone:
The Letter was addressed to the Corinthian belivers who weren't so patriachial as a result of their allegiance to female deities, unlike the Jews who knew YHWH as male only.

@bolded, i also disagree with you entirely.
Paul was solving a case of disorderliness in the church. He was setting up rules how the church setting should be run.

If this is about orderliness, it then follows that women were causing disorderliness,
hence; needed to be tamed and kept in control.

If you say women were considered less humans by even the Apostles,
you'd have to explain why the Holy Spirit was given to them in the same measure which was given to the men.

Or was He given to the men only?

butterflyl1on:


You keep missing what is right in front of you. Let me post the scripture. Please note the part in bold.



Paul said clearly there that what he is saying is not a command but a concession. A concession is simply a grant given based on a demand. In other words he is saying that it is up to the wife or the husband to grant this concession because both of them have mutual authority over their bodies (as stated in verse 4 of the same chapter 7). His words were a personal advice.

He even went further to wish everyone was celibate like him. Paul was simply passing on a personal advice to them.

MuttleyLaff:




Emmanystone Bravo! Encore! Standing ovation

Let a woman learn with a quiet spirit, and submissively.
- 1 Timothy 2:11

Sarassin I believe Emmanystone has shed light on 1 Corinthians 14:34

so mine will be on 1 Timothy 2:11 above
The greek word used up there in 1 Timothy 2:11, is "hesuchia"
and this term "hesuchia" doesn't mean speechlessness
but alludes to a situation in which people arent protesting or arguing

Now lets recognise that the above verse is from a particular letter, Paul wrote to Timothy,
and this letter actually started at 1 Timothy 1 and not from 1 Timothy 2

Paul began 1 Timothy 1, by first reminding Timothy of how he told Timothy to stay at Ephesus
To stay there, so Timothy can stop men teaching strange doctrines (i.e. false teaching)
Fast forward 1 Timothy 1, to 1 Timothy 2, things have gone from bad to worse
This due to the influence of goddess, known as Artemis of the Ephesians,
Same goddess which is that prominent enough, to be actually mentioned, at least 5 times, in Acts 19

Paul is thwarting the influence of the goddess, known as Artemis of the Ephesians on women
and stopping any platform that promotes and/or spreads her false teaching(s)

It's so true this line, paraphrasing one of budaatum's posit:
The things that you're liable to read and thought you've understood in the Bible - it ain't necessarily so
So Sarassin, its not what you thought Paul said or meant about women

MizMyColi:

Sarassin:


Of course you're invited, anywhere I go, you go...simples