Cc: Removetheturban

OkCornel:


The earth froze on its axis...the time lost for this act was reversed when Hezekiah got the sign that his life would be prolonged...

Read up that part of the Bible and see how the sun moved on the sun dial...

the evidence is in the inaccurate bible? ok

Humanistme:


the evidence is in the inaccurate bible? ok

Because I told you the entire Bible is inaccurate abi?

I'm finding this amusing...

OkCornel:


Per the bolded....if a German researcher and historian tells you the history of your forefathers depending on which side of Nigeria you hail from AND your grand mother who is also a historian tells you history of your forefathers...

Both of them have convincing and yet conflicting evidence, please tell me which person's position you will settle for...the German guy abi?

So you will settle for your grandmother? Abeg ooo, this is ridiculous ooo. Please please.

My criteria is not German historian or grandma historian. My criteria and I believe the common sense criteria will be the truth. Remove grandma or German from your thoughts. Follow the evidence. Truth wears no national garb

Your thinking is dyed with this thought: nobody knows the history of a people more than the people themselves. False! Particularly when as in this case we are dealing with recorded ancient history.
A people's history is known by the man who has devoted himself to learn and study that history whether he's from out of those people or not.

So if I put down what an Egyptian or Jewish historian say you will believe them regardless of the truth coming from say a Zambian whose deeper studies makes his thesis and position based on the records approximate to the truth?

Omo, I bow for your thinking.

LordVoldermort:
If a book can have more than one author meaning it can be modified with time, shouldn't that question the validity of the Bible e.g how sure are you that there was ever a man named Moses and he wasn't a fictional character of the writers?

if u know anything about the mosaic law, you should know that there were scribes who taught these words to the children of Israel, an average Jewish child in those days would recite the 5 books of moses off hand. An exceptional child that proceeds to the higher school would recite the entire old testament off hand, it was progressive, at age 6 all Jewish children got enrolled in the lowest school called Bet sefer..( It is the same thing the Muslims copied that at a certain age their children gets enrolled in quranic class) . The words of scripture was very sacred to them. U can't even find d scroll randomly much less mutilate it. How do u think they were able to keep the word throughout captivity and exile? They not only had it in the scroll, they also had it memorized

Mujtahida:

So you will settle for your grandmother? Abeg ooo, this is ridiculous ooo. Please please.

My criteria is not German historian or grandma historian. My criteria and I believe the common sense criteria will be the truth. Remove grandma or German from your thoughts. Follow the evidence.

Your thinking is dyed with this thought: nobody knows the history of a people more than the people themselves. False! Particularly when as in this case we are dealing with recorded ancient history.
A people's history is known by the man who has devoted himself to learn and study that history whether he's from out of those people or not.

So if I put down what an Egyptian or Jewish historian say you will believe them regardless of the truth coming from say a Zambian whose deeper studies makes his thesis and position based on the records approximate to the truth?

Omo, I bow for your thinking.

I'm appealing to common sense here...

So you are saying that a foreigner can tell us the history of the Yorubas better than Yoruba historians?

Quite interesting...

So a white man can come here and tell you fables about your history and you will swallow it hook line and sinker...

Very very interesting...

So any Tom, Dick and Harry of a foreigner suddenly knows the history of the Jews better than the Jews themselves...

I like your line of thought...

OkCornel:


Because I told you the entire Bible is inaccurate abi?

I'm finding this amusing...

if some parts of the bible contains some inaccuracies, it makes it use as the absolute truth questionable. if those that wrote it didn't know the earth revolves round the sun and not the other way round. how are you sure the whole story of jehosephat is not another Hercules, Odysseus or oduduwa myth.

Humanistme:


[s]if some parts of the bible contains some inaccuracies,[/s] it makes it use as the absolute truth questionable. if those that wrote it didn't know the earth revolves round the sun and not the other way round. how are you sure the whole story of jehosephat is not another Hercules, Odysseus or oduduwa myth.

Fixed: If some parts of the ENGLISH BIBLE contains some inaccuracies...

The Bible was not originally written in English, get that part right first. And for someone like me, I do not believe in the English Bible 100%...

The truth is so delicate such that if something as little as punctuation mark is placed incorrectly, the entire context of that word can change...
Even worse off is when original words are substituted for synonyms due to limitations in language...

My mind is not closed to a collection of 66 books determined by certain men in the council of Nicaea to be the complete truth...

No book or religion or body of knowledge has absolute monopoly of the truth...and the complete truth cannot be written in any single book..

But that is not to say the entire bible is full of errors, there is truth in it as well... pick them out and move on with life...

Humanistme:
Exodus 20:5 ESV /
You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me,



Ezekiel 18:20 ESV
The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.


these two verses contradict each other.

does YAHWEH visit iniquity of the fathers on the children or not

God's dealing with mankind has always been progressive.. During the period from Abel till Jacob, a man could make sacrifices by himself, offer an animal as a sacrifice to make atonement for his sin. When the nation of Israel was born, it was unacceptable. That became only the job of the priesthood. In the dispensation of grace it is now unacceptable. Jesus is now the perfect sacrifice. It is a progression from permissible to perfection. It doesn't mean God has changed. Without Shedd of blood there is no remission for sin.
God is love and justice personified. D book of Ezekiel u quoted is several centuries apart. This was a period where the children of Israel were already in Babylonia captivity. He is a merciful God

salvation101:
if u know anything about the mosaic law, you should know that there were scribes who taught these words to the children of Israel, an average Jewish child in those days would recite the 5 books of moses off hand. An exceptional child that proceeds to the higher school would recite the entire old testament off hand, it was progressive, at age 6 all Jewish children got enrolled in the lowest school called Bet sefer..( It is the same thing the Muslims copied that at a certain age their children gets enrolled in quranic class) . The words of scripture was very sacred to them. U can't even find d scroll randomly much less mutilate it. How do u think they were able to keep the word throughout captivity and exile? They not only had it in the scroll, they also had it memorized

They could have memorized the wrong information

OkCornel:


Permit me to give all theists and atheists an assignment here

Are there archaeological evidences for drowned chariots and artifacts at the bottom of the red sea?

N+O No
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossing_the_Red_Sea

LordVoldermort:
They could have memorized the wrong information

not possible, the teaching of the law was solely the job of the scribes. Only exceptional individuals become scribes. The tradition required that dey never miss a jot or tittle, if there is a mistake in writing, no cancelation. Dey had to start all over again. Dey always took a break when they wanted to write the name of God. Dey had to go and do cleansing and come back before writing the name and before they write another one they go for another round of cleaning, it was dat serious

salvation101:
not possible, the teaching of the law was solely the job of the scribes. Only exceptional individuals become scribes. The tradition required that dey never miss a jot or tittle, if there is a mistake in writing, no cancelation. Dey had to start all over again. Dey always took a break when they wanted to write the name of God. Dey had to go and do cleansing and come back before writing the name and before they write another one they go for another round of cleaning, it was dat serious

Get this

Mujtahida:
Who is the morning star, Jesus or Satan?

---

I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."Revelation 22: 16

Isaiah 14:12
How you have fallen from heaven, ~morning~ star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!

The verse says son of the morning.
Big difference.

OkCornel:


I'm appealing to common sense here...

So you are saying that a foreigner can tell us the history of the Yorubas better than Yoruba historians?

Quite interesting...

So a white man can come here and tell you fables about your history and you will swallow it hook line and sinker...

Very very interesting...

So any Tom, Dick and Harry of a foreigner suddenly knows the history of the Jews better than the Jews themselves...

I like your line of thought...

Jesu Christi!!!
My criteria for believing is not whether the person making the assertion is a foreigner or a native born. All you wrote above are what you think I think. You are projecting the opposite of your thinking on me. I stand outside your dialectic. I am facing the truth not grandma or nationality. The question is: is what this person saying, the truth? Tackle the validity or otherwise of the message not the messenger.

I posted a video. You asked a question that has no single bearing on the claims in the video: you are asking :Is she Egyptian or Jewish? Your question is baseless even somewhat laughable.

So if she were Egyptian would it have made a difference regarding what she said?
Okay what about the second video made by Ashraf Ezzat an Egyptian who says that Egypt knew no pharaoh or slaves and features Professor Mostafa El - Abaddi a leading historian on ancient Egyptian history. So you'd just believe them based on their nationality and not the truth of their assertions?

Get this: truth wears no national garment.

As if I cannot tell you more about your family history if the records are there and I study them. So if there is an argument your whole position will be that 'heyyyy what I say is the truth because it's my family history, don't believe that guy because he's not part of our family'

The criteria is not whether you or I belong to your family or not. The criteria is: who is telling the truth or who is close to the truth based on the records.

LordVoldermort:
N+O No
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossing_the_Red_Sea

Very good...I've been through that before you posted it here...

Any other archaeological evidences for or against Chariots buried at the bottom of the Red sea?

I'm throwing this question out to everyone...

Humanistme:

Ephesians 2:8-9 New International Version (NIV)
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
not by works, so that no one can boast.


James 2:24 New International Version (NIV)
You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.


is it by faith alone or by faith and works?

welcome to contradiction number3

those verses were talking about two different things..
The book of Ephesians talks about salvation wch is an experience. The price of our salvation was paid by the Lord Jesus. Partaking in that experience takes only Faith wch is a product of grace and hence you do not attain salvation by works but simply by faith.

James is talking about our daily living and not salvation. Its talking of having faith in God and also taking responsibility for your life and those of your brethren. U can't see a brother hungry and tell him "be filled "...as long as you are in a position to help, That is where responsibility comes in. For a student u can't sit at home and expect knowledge to fall on you. You have the promise that you shall succeed, you have faith in dat promise and also do your work and see scriptures come to pass in ur life

Mujtahida:

Jesu Christi!!!
My criteria for believing is not whether the person making the assertion is a foreigner or a native born. All you wrote above are what you think I think. You are projecting the opposite of your thinking on me. I stand outside your dialectic. I am facing the truth not grandma or nationality. The question is: is what this person saying, the truth? Tackle the validity or otherwise of the message not the messenger.

I posted a video. You asked a question that has no single bearing on the claims in the video: you are asking :Is she Egyptian or Jewish? Your question is baseless even somewhat laughable.

So if she were Egyptian would it have made a difference regarding what she said?
Okay what about the second video made by Ashraf Ezzat an Egyptian who says that Egypt knew no pharaoh or slaves and features Professor Mostafa El - Abaddi a leading historian on ancient Egyptian history. So you'd just believe them based on their nationality and not the truth of their assertions?

Get this: truth wears no national garment.

As if I cannot tell you more about your family history if the records are there and I study them. So if there is an argument your whole position will be that 'heyyyy what I say is the truth because it's my family history, don't believe that guy because he's not part of our family'

The criteria is not whether you or I belong to your family or not. The criteria is: who is telling the truth or who is close to the truth based on the records.

My question is simple...can a foreigner know your history better than your ancestors?

hadow:


The verse says son of the morning.
Big difference.

Na wa ooo.
... 'Morning Star, son of the dawn' has become 'son of the morning star' as it passed through the editorial refinements of your mind. Okay ooo.

In the beginning, there was only the sky above, water and marshland below.

The chief god Olorun ruled the sky, and the goddess Olokun ruled what was below.

Obatala, another god, reflected upon this situation, then went to Olorun for permission to create dry land for all kinds of living creatures to inhabit.

He was given permission, so he sought advice from Orunmila, oldest son of Olorun and the god of prophecy.

He was told he would need a gold chain long enough to reach below, a snail's shell filled with sand, a white hen, a black cat, and a palm nut, all of which he was to carry in a bag.

All the gods contributed what gold they had, and Orunmila supplied the articles for the bag.

When all was ready, Obatala hung the chain from a corner of the sky, placed the bag over his shoulder, and started the downward climb. When he reached the end of the chain he saw he still had some distance to go.

From above, he heard Orunmila instruct him to pour the sand from the snail's shell, and also immediately release the white hen.

He did as he was told, whereupon the hen landing on the sand began scratching and scattering it about.

Wherever the sand landed it formed dry land, the bigger piles becoming hills and the smaller piles valleys. Obatala jumped to a hill and named the place Ife.

The dry land now extended as far as he could see.

He dug a hole, planted the palm nut, and saw it grow to maturity in a flash. The mature palm tree dropped more palm nuts on the ground, each of which grew immediately to maturity and repeated the process. Obatala settled down with the cat for company.

Many months passed, and he grew bored with his routine.

He decided to create beings like himself to keep him company.

He dug into the sand and soon found clay with which to mould figures like himself and started on his task, but he soon grew tired and decided to take a break.

He made wine from a nearby palm tree, and drank bowl after bowl. Not realizing he was drunk, Obatala returned to his task of fashioning the new beings; because of his condition he fashioned many imperfect figures.

Without realizing this, he called out to Olorun to breathe life into his creatures.

The next day he realized what he had done, and swore never to drink again, and to take care of those who were deformed, thus becoming Protector of the Deformed.

The new people built huts as Obatala had done, and soon Ife prospered and became a city.

All the other gods were happy with what Obatala had done, and visited the land often, except for Olokun, the ruler of all below the sky.

She had not been consulted by Obatala, and grew angry that he had usurped so much of her kingdom.

When Obatala returned to his home in the sky for a visit, Olokun summoned the great waves of her vast oceans and sent them surging across the land.

Wave after wave she unleashed, until much of the land was underwater and many of the people were drowned.

Those that had fled to the highest land beseeched the god Eshu who had been visiting, to return to the sky and report what was happening to them.

Eshu demanded sacrifice be made to Obatala and himself before he would deliver the message.

The people sacrificed some goats, and Eshu returned to the sky.

When Orunmila heard the news he climbed down the golden chain to the earth, and cast many spells which caused the flood waters to retreat and the dry African land reappear.

So ended the great flood.

This is the history of my people/story of creation according to my grandmother. Does it make it the fact? Don't you think I should study the facts and throw away any form of sentiments?

Cc: okcornel

OkCornel:


My question is simple...can a foreigner know your history better than your ancestors?

What do you know about your ancestors? Do you know their names? .... Historians are saying it's not part of history

ReinaFarine:
In the beginning, there was only the sky above, water and marshland below.

The chief god Olorun ruled the sky, and the goddess Olokun ruled what was below.

Obatala, another god, reflected upon this situation, then went to Olorun for permission to create dry land for all kinds of living creatures to inhabit.

He was given permission, so he sought advice from Orunmila, oldest son of Olorun and the god of prophecy.

He was told he would need a gold chain long enough to reach below, a snail's shell filled with sand, a white hen, a black cat, and a palm nut, all of which he was to carry in a bag.

All the gods contributed what gold they had, and Orunmila supplied the articles for the bag.

When all was ready, Obatala hung the chain from a corner of the sky, placed the bag over his shoulder, and started the downward climb. When he reached the end of the chain he saw he still had some distance to go.

From above, he heard Orunmila instruct him to pour the sand from the snail's shell, and also immediately release the white hen.

He did as he was told, whereupon the hen landing on the sand began scratching and scattering it about.

Wherever the sand landed it formed dry land, the bigger piles becoming hills and the smaller piles valleys. Obatala jumped to a hill and named the place Ife.

The dry land now extended as far as he could see.

He dug a hole, planted the palm nut, and saw it grow to maturity in a flash. The mature palm tree dropped more palm nuts on the ground, each of which grew immediately to maturity and repeated the process. Obatala settled down with the cat for company.

Many months passed, and he grew bored with his routine.

He decided to create beings like himself to keep him company.

He dug into the sand and soon found clay with which to mould figures like himself and started on his task, but he soon grew tired and decided to take a break.

He made wine from a nearby palm tree, and drank bowl after bowl. Not realizing he was drunk, Obatala returned to his task of fashioning the new beings; because of his condition he fashioned many imperfect figures.

Without realizing this, he called out to Olorun to breathe life into his creatures.

The next day he realized what he had done, and swore never to drink again, and to take care of those who were deformed, thus becoming Protector of the Deformed.

The new people built huts as Obatala had done, and soon Ife prospered and became a city.

All the other gods were happy with what Obatala had done, and visited the land often, except for Olokun, the ruler of all below the sky.

She had not been consulted by Obatala, and grew angry that he had usurped so much of her kingdom.

When Obatala returned to his home in the sky for a visit, Olokun summoned the great waves of her vast oceans and sent them surging across the land.

Wave after wave she unleashed, until much of the land was underwater and many of the people were drowned.

Those that had fled to the highest land beseeched the god Eshu who had been visiting, to return to the sky and report what was happening to them.

Eshu demanded sacrifice be made to Obatala and himself before he would deliver the message.

The people sacrificed some goats, and Eshu returned to the sky.

When Orunmila heard the news he climbed down the golden chain to the earth, and cast many spells which caused the flood waters to retreat and the dry African land reappear.

So ended the great flood.

This is the history of my people/story of creation according to my grandmother. Does it make it the fact? Don't you think I should study the facts and throw away any form of sentiments?

Cc: okcornel

I totally agree with the bolded part of your post...

My question to you is this...do you have sufficient and convincing evidence to corroborate your grand mother's story of creation?

At the end of the day...there are a lot of facts and evidences totally lost to the hands of time...how then can you know what really happened in the past?


As for me, I stick to the bigger picture and leave the details to sort out themselves later...

The summary of the whole story is this...all cultures and religion around the world point to the existence of a Creator...

This Creator is labelled with different names by various tribes and religion...

As for details, is there any prima facie evidence to support these details?

OkCornel:


My question is simple...can a foreigner know your history better than your ancestors?

So you are not seeing my answer since.
My history is known not by my ancestor or a foreigner. My history is known by the man who devotes time to study it whether he's my ancestor or a foreigner.

And as between a foreign historian and my grandma historian I'd believe the person whose assertion tallies with the record.

So you will believe your ancestors more than a foreigner irrespective of what the truth says just because they are your ancestors?

I just weak. Abeg you are distracting me. If you cannot challenge what is contained in the video, then I see no reason joining issues with you.
If your child and your neighbour's child come to talk you'd automatically believe your child irrespective of the truth. In other words truth is not your criteria but nationality.

He is Jewish
Therefore whatever he says about Jewish history is correct and the truth because nobody can know more about Jewish history than a Jew.

People on this thread shey una dey see thinking. Chai

Mujtahida:

So you are not seeing my answer since.
My history is known not by my ancestor or a foreigner. My history is known by the man who devotes time to study it whether he's my ancestor or a foreigner.

And as between a foreign historian and my grandma historian I'd believe the person whose assertion tallies with the record.

So you will believe your ancestors more than a foreigner irrespective of what the truth says just because they are your ancestors?

I just weak. Abeg you are distracting me. If you cannot challenge what is contained in the video, then I see no reason joining issues with you.
If your child and your neighbour's child come to talk you'd automatically believe your child irrespective of the truth. In other words truth is not your criteria but nationality.

He is Jewish
Therefore whatever he says about Jewish history is correct and the truth because nobody can know more about Jewish history than a Jew.

People on this thread shey una dey see thinking. Chai

A jewish expert and historian who has devoted his entire life to research tells you Moses existed, and presents evidence to you within and outside of the holy books...

A foreigner does the same...and tells you Moses never existed...

Going by your assertion and position, the foreigner must be believed without considering the position of Jewish historians right?

ReinaFarine:
In the beginning, there was only the sky above, water and marshland below.

The chief god Olorun ruled the sky, and the goddess Olokun ruled what was below.

Obatala, another god, reflected upon this situation, then went to Olorun for permission to create dry land for all kinds of living creatures to inhabit.

He was given permission, so he sought advice from Orunmila, oldest son of Olorun and the god of prophecy.

He was told he would need a gold chain long enough to reach below, a snail's shell filled with sand, a white hen, a black cat, and a palm nut, all of which he was to carry in a bag.

All the gods contributed what gold they had, and Orunmila supplied the articles for the bag.

When all was ready, Obatala hung the chain from a corner of the sky, placed the bag over his shoulder, and started the downward climb. When he reached the end of the chain he saw he still had some distance to go.

From above, he heard Orunmila instruct him to pour the sand from the snail's shell, and also immediately release the white hen.

He did as he was told, whereupon the hen landing on the sand began scratching and scattering it about.

Wherever the sand landed it formed dry land, the bigger piles becoming hills and the smaller piles valleys. Obatala jumped to a hill and named the place Ife.

The dry land now extended as far as he could see.

He dug a hole, planted the palm nut, and saw it grow to maturity in a flash. The mature palm tree dropped more palm nuts on the ground, each of which grew immediately to maturity and repeated the process. Obatala settled down with the cat for company.

Many months passed, and he grew bored with his routine.

He decided to create beings like himself to keep him company.

He dug into the sand and soon found clay with which to mould figures like himself and started on his task, but he soon grew tired and decided to take a break.

He made wine from a nearby palm tree, and drank bowl after bowl. Not realizing he was drunk, Obatala returned to his task of fashioning the new beings; because of his condition he fashioned many imperfect figures.

Without realizing this, he called out to Olorun to breathe life into his creatures.

The next day he realized what he had done, and swore never to drink again, and to take care of those who were deformed, thus becoming Protector of the Deformed.

The new people built huts as Obatala had done, and soon Ife prospered and became a city.

All the other gods were happy with what Obatala had done, and visited the land often, except for Olokun, the ruler of all below the sky.

She had not been consulted by Obatala, and grew angry that he had usurped so much of her kingdom.

When Obatala returned to his home in the sky for a visit, Olokun summoned the great waves of her vast oceans and sent them surging across the land.

Wave after wave she unleashed, until much of the land was underwater and many of the people were drowned.

Those that had fled to the highest land beseeched the god Eshu who had been visiting, to return to the sky and report what was happening to them.

Eshu demanded sacrifice be made to Obatala and himself before he would deliver the message.

The people sacrificed some goats, and Eshu returned to the sky.

When Orunmila heard the news he climbed down the golden chain to the earth, and cast many spells which caused the flood waters to retreat and the dry African land reappear.

So ended the great flood.

This is the history of my people/story of creation according to my grandmother. Does it make it the fact? Don't you think I should study the facts and throw away any form of sentiments?

Cc: okcornel

Ohhhhhh thank you, thank you a million times cos I found his line of thinking insufferably ludicrous. Please continue with him. I have handed the baton to you. I don tire.

hopefulLandlord:

Yes he did but that doesn't mean he did whatever they end up doing with the money just like my giving someone money to do whatever they wanted to do with it doesn't mean I did whatever they did with it as the money seizes to be mine the moment I gave it away

No! the only thing he consented to is that the money is no longer his just like my giving a homeless man a few dollar bills doesn't mean I've consented to whatever he ends up doing with it.
Otherwise employerr too should be arrested when the salary they paid to an employee end up being used to buy hard drugs

are you ready to understand or u are just arguing as usual? U are talking about employee nd employer here and think then is as it is now? When studying history or making a research, you should try to cast your mind back amd think like those people would have thought as at dat time. This is the Jewish culture, they knew what it meant to have the blood of am innocent on them. Judas was ready to sell out and they paid him a price for the betrayal, to them that is the price of blood, that money was cursed. Wen judas realized his foolishness(perhaps , he tried to negotiate if dey could collect the money and release his master wch dey declined, they were not ready to let Jesus go and also they were not ready to have the blood on dem).. He left the money there and went to hang himself on a parcel of land. Since d temple leaders didn't want to keep the money to themselves, they also couldn't put it back to the treasury, they used it to buy a parcel of land on his behalf.

Mujtahida:

Ohhhhhh thank you, thank you a million times cos I found his line of thinking insufferably ludicrous. Please continue with him. I have handed the baton to you. I don tire.

Any good and sufficient evidence to corroborate her grandmother's story of creation?

I recall starting my discussion with you on the premise that if your grandmother and a foreigner provides you with convincing but yet conflicting evidences of your history...which one will you believe...

This is as absurd as a Muslim educating Christians on the origin of Christianity...

LordVoldermort:
What do you know about your ancestors? Do you know their names? .... Historians are saying it's not part of history

If I don't know their names after enquiries and research...so it is a distant foreigner that will tell me their names abi?

How can this be possible? Science or Sorcery?

OkCornel:



A jewish expert and historian who has devoted his entire life to research tells you Moses existed, and presents evidence to you within and outside of the holy books...

A foreigner does the same...and tells you Moses never existed...

Going by your assertion and position, the foreigner must be believed without considering the position of Jewish historians right?

I never said the bolded. You are the one stuck with nationality. That's why I have said it for the umpteenth time: I stand outside your dialectic of foreigners or nationality.

Neither the foreigner nor the Jew is to be believed or not believed. The facts, facts, facts are to be believed.

You must be a real religious person. I say this because your thinking depicts the way religious people think: black or white, good or evil, heaven or hell, Jew or foreigner. I stand outside your dialectical way of thinking.

OkCornel:


If you go through the documentary, you will find the answers to your question in there...but I guess you're either lazy or too busy to go through it hence...you are replying me with incomplete knowledge on the subject matter



Please take out time to research on how the structure of the Universe... you'll find out that before the sun existed as a star...there were many other countless stars as well... when you are through with your findings, I expect you understand that stars are not the only source of light nor the first source of light in the Universe...

Infact, do some research and give me an intelligent clapback. I am looking for people to engage me in intellectually stimulating discussions rather than reply me with disappointing answers



Go and do some more research on the Universe...unless you are telling me the Sun is the first star that ever existed in the Universe...
And bear in mind, the stars are not the only source of light in the Universe...

If you are waiting for Biblical evidence... I hope "Let there be light" rings a bell in your head...



If you were patient enough to read and understand my first post on this thread...then you won't be typing this. Go and do some more research... The English Bible(s) (all the different versions) are not 100% accurate!



I get your problem...it's because all these things are written in a Jewish book...that's why your mindset which has been made rigid by logic (which is not the highest form of intelligence) finds it difficult to accept...

Perhaps, you might find all these things to be possible if a Satanist or Occultist demonstrates them as well...

Redirecting me to do research? Why can you just drop fake link(s) just like you did earlier

Mujtahida:

I never said the bolded. You are the one stuck with nationality. That's why I have said it for the umpteenth time: I stand outside your dialectic of foreigners or nationality.

Neither the foreigner nor the Jew is to be believed or not believed. The facts, facts, facts are to be believed.

You must be a real religious person. I say this because your thinking depicts the way religious people think: black or white, good or evil, heaven or hell, Jew or foreigner. I stand outside your dialectical way of thinking.

And I've asked you, if both the foreigner and Jew presents convincing but yet conflicting evidence...which one will you settle for?

How do you know which one is right or wrong?

I don't want to believe the Jews are dullards...neither is the foreigner more insightful than them..

adepeter2027:

Redirecting me to do research? Why can you just drop fake link(s) just like you did earlier

What's the fake link I dropped?

Please let us know...