quote author=cutechioma1 post=67176810]
A medical doctor entering civil service suppose to be one level ahead of other health proffessionals because their years of training is one year ahead of other health proffessionals ,As we start on conhess 9 ,they suppose to start on equivalent of conhess 10 ,but now,they start on equivalent of conhess 11 ,this is greedness ,Relativity is the difference in call duty .A medical doctor receives 200% of his basic salary as call duty whereas other health proffessionals receive 40% of their basic salary as call duty ,That is why they don't want conhess to be adjusted[/quote]

Please tell me which health worker is in Conhess 11 which is equivalent to conmess 2 and grade level 11 which all civil servants skipped. Johesu skipped from Conhess 10 to 12. Doctor skipped from conmess 1 to 3. Other civil servants skipped from grade level 10 to 12.

sutelk:
I've always known that this government is one of propaganda and lies but I never knew Nigerians were so naive swallowing their lies hook, line, sinker. I'm so glad I'm leaving this system for good. I didn't come here to argue with anyone, I just came to find out who has good travelling bags for sale so I can buy and pack my load out of this country, so please holla me if you know where I can get good travelling bags to pack my load. To my fellow Allied health professionals please stop wasting your time and data on this thread, leave them to continue to swallow propaganda, it is Johesu today, tomorrow it will be their turn. Your time can be better spent on Google searching out how you can leave their hospital for them, you are hotcake outside this country, I got a fantastic job after a 15 minute interview on Skype from my bedroom. Leave nairaland and find your way out of here, God that did it for me can do it for you.
As I was saying, who de sell travelling bag?

When you get there ask for the same pay as the doctors oh. Make sure you don't give up the fight.

erikoko:
The relativity bfr was a doctor was 2 levels ahead but now e don reach 4 level ahead. I dnt tink dats fair. Until one of their children become a health worker dey wont c d evil in wat they are doing now. Do u know ow much a Level 7 health worker earns now compare it with wat a house officer earns. D diff is more dan 100k. Lets assume dat deir entry level. Plus d discrimination u ll still face at d work place oooo

My dear it's really pathetic. imagine a house officer that just finished school a month ago and can rarely handle any procedure unaided to be earning more than a Nurse, pharmacist, Radiographer etc that has worked for same hospital for 5years. Abeg sentiments apart, the salary scale is highly discriminatory and dosen't make sense. minister of health saying JOHESU is asking for same salary scale with doctors is a big lie he wants the public to believe. I don't even see Nigerian health sector even moving forward in 10years to come because other underlying weightier matters of who to head different departments in hospitals will always keep retarding our growth because of incessant fights resulting from it in almost every hospital in Nigeria.

lightness77:
young man, there was a reason for the increase, if it is not applicable to them why should theirs be increased too The issue here is they just want to be equal to the doctors nothing more.

What reason? can u state the reason, my brother everyone has reason. Johesu have reason too for asking for adjustment in health salary.

This won't go on forever, this is the end of NMA anarchy system, let's see how this unfold.

lightness77:
young man, there was a reason for the increase, if it is not applicable to them why should theirs be increased too The issue here is they just want to be equal to the doctors nothing more.

This not logical.
AT ALL

what is this Top secret reason for the increase tha cannot be disclosed.

How can they want to be on equal pay with doctors?

A body that includes porters and cleaners? hahaha.
It is not even rational to bring doctors into it.

The main justification for public sector pay rises in many advanced economies is usually inflation. If we have as we do in Nigeria a 10% yoy inflation then the value of take hoe pay for EVERYONE is being eroded and so everyone deserves a raise. We all know what has happened since 2015 in our economy.

In fact those on the lowest salaries are hit the hardest usually and tend to get a higher percentage rise

e.g a person o 25000 a month who gets a 5% pay rise would receive an extra 1250 naira a month rising to 26250 a month

on the other hand a person on 200000 a month who gets an extra 2% pay would get an extra 4000 a month. These are some of the issues involved in public sector pay considerations.
Those on the very lowest pay should get the first pay rise especially in a high inflation economy like ours

The government should synchonize pay increases so every body gets a rise at the same time and be explicit about the relative multiple between professions.

nagoma:


There are no Pharmacists among the members of Nigerian Medical Association( NMA). A pharmacist cannot be the president of NMA just as a Medical Doctor cannot be the President of Pharmacists Association of Nigeria ( PAN). So what’s your problem?

Omo I just tire o! How can a pharmacist head a body like the NMA!
what is really wrong with blacks?

thedondada:



When you get there ask for the same pay as the doctors oh. Make sure you don't give up the fight.

If your brain was functioning as it should you would have looked at the demands of Johesu yourself to find out where they asked for same pay with doctors instead of falling for the propaganda of the minister of doctors.
Anyway, I won't need to fight any doctor where I'm going, over there there's mutual respect and the doctors over there are not so idle.
In my years of practice in this country I've come to the conclusion that the problem with doctors practicing here is laziness. While there colleagues in diaspora are engrossed in ground breaking research my people are busy fighting with admin officer on who is supposed to sign that memo, or the storekeeper on who controls inventory. I sorry for Nigeria. But thank God its no longer my business.

Johesu Is not asking for the same salary pay. OK now imagine where a house officer earns approximately 198k per month and then a nurse, pharmacist, radiographer or MLS who has spent 15 yrs under the employ of govt earning the same pay.
Now where is the justice in this. Sentiments has to be done away with, no one asked for same pay just that there should be fairness, equity and justice in the health system.

Or talk about MD's heading someone else's department like the MLS who have had like worst treatment meted out on them in this country.

sondi:

You're trying to paint a wrong picture here my friend. Pharmacists don't belong to Nigeria Medical Association; they belong to Pharmaceutical Society of Nigeria rather so why should they be allowed to head NMA?
I think inferiority complex is Johesu biggest problem. To be paid as Doctors or placed same salary scale as doctors is laughable, on fact ridiculous. That's not obtainable in any country in the entire wide world.

Really? Stop speaking in ignorance. The disparity only applies to public sector workers.

If you get to the NGO world, doctors, pharmacists, Lab scientists are paid the same as long as you're on the same level. eg a technical officer with FHI360 whether doctor or lab scientist has a gross of about 700k.

Big lie how is that possible when they are already on different salary scale.
Govt voluntarily signed an agreement and is now not willing to honour it - this is the main problem.

sondi:

You're trying to paint a wrong picture here my friend. Pharmacists don't belong to Nigeria Medical Association; they belong to Pharmaceutical Society of Nigeria rather so why should they be allowed to head NMA?
I think inferiority complex is Johesu biggest problem. To be paid as Doctors or placed same salary scale as doctors is laughable, on fact ridiculous. That's not obtainable in any country in the entire wide world.

Where is the evidence for a demand to be placed on same salary scale as doctors?
There is no basis to claim inferiority complex without evidence.

I support JOHESU that there should be an increase in salary for all health workers synchronized at the same time. Increasing doctors pay at different times from others causes resentment and unnecessary friction

JOHESU includes cleaners too how can a cleaner want to be on the saame salary as a doctor or even a nurse That is not realistic and there is no evidence for such a demand.

The onus is on you to evidence your claim

I do not know what happens now in Nigeria but all "over the world" as you mention. senior allied professionals are paid more than junior doctors and the senior doctors are paid the most.
The only tme they would be paid more than doctors is if they perform an executive role which is managerial
I do not believe there is a clamour to change that

alezzy13:


Really? Stop speaking in ignorance. The disparity only applies to public sector workers.

If you get to the NGO world, doctors, pharmacists, Lab scientists are paid the same as long as you're on the same level. eg a technical officer with FHI360 whether doctor or lab scientist has a gross of about 700k.

Evidence

There is nothing like "NGO WORLD" there are hundreds of NGOs with different philosophies and practices

Donraqh:


I sincerely read your mention with great dismay, but I think should leave you with one word.. "Opportunity" Think about that please and be more objective going forward, thank you.

What do you mean by "opportunity"?? I'm going to be objective here. If by "opportunity", you mean doctors were lucky to gain admission and read medicine, I would sincerely like to disagree with you. I have friends who toiled day and night in class then, had little or no social life just to get the required cut off marks both for jamb and post UME. Mind you, it doesn't end there, I have heard stories, firsthand, where some of my friends were dropped out of medical school after 2,3,4 and even final years because they fell short of the supposed prerequisite. Now, I know drs. who even in residency program read day and night regardless of their work schedule. Most work 90 days call non stop. My friend, a resident in neurosurgery, I don't know when last I saw that one sef. He's always in the hospital, tired and uninteresting. No JOHESU member works 247, it's all shift, shift, shift. This demand by JOHESU if allowed will trigger another round of NMA strike. Think am well, doctors go through a lot to get specialization and what does JOHESU do?? I rest my case, objectively

Mind you, I fully understand what JOHESU is asking for but the way you guys are going about it is unruly. Several cases of assault and name calling, uh oh, who does that?? I pray the FG find a way to please both parties.

Olaoladimeji:

JOHESU isn't looking for the same pay as doctors. What we want is an increment in salary as was done for doctors.
Since 2014 doctors salary as been increased twice and no adjustment on health workers salary.
You talk of relativity, does that mean doctors salary should be increased twice and nothing done for the others?
As it is now a doctor on housemanship fresh from University is earning more than a Chief Nursing Officer who had already put in 30 years of employment.
What sought of relativity is that?

Why do you want to mislead the public? Quote me, there's no govt institution in Nigeria where house officers earn close to Chief Nursing Officers. CNOs even earn twice HOs' pay.

he government is playing divide and rule politics and doctors are salivating like a Pavlovian dog.

There is no where these folk talked about equal pay with doctors? How can they? is that rational?.

Doctors are supposed to be intelligent and see through such manipulation.

Divide and rule hs aalways been the strategy of the FMH

Doctors are selfish, johesu did not ask for same salary with doctors, but because minister of health and labour are doctors, their intend to mislead the public, first they said no agreement, later now, johesu asking for equal salary, Doctors has killed medical sector, they have left clinical service to administration, Every organ in the hospital is important, now paramedics are not on ground, and no work is going on. Doctors finished school at 7yrs and others 6yrs excluding nysc,entry point for doctors GL 13 while others 10 and 8.still they're not satisfied.

dokiOloye:
Who was the first lab scientist?
Who was the first pharmacist?
Who was d first physiotherapist?
I guess you know already.

i don't know but from your statement I guess it was a doctor n I believe you are one too,but are you saying because doctors were the first of this n that so it should remain like that forever?,would you accept such archaic argument in all other spheres of life?,pls drop you ego n grow up now it's clear where the problem in the health sector is coming from!.

godisgreat4lyf:
Doctors are selfish, johesu did not ask for same salary with doctors, but because minister of health and labour are doctors, their intend to mislead the public, first they said no agreement, later now, johesu asking for equal salary, Doctors has killed medical sector, they have left clinical service to administration, Every organ in the hospital is important, now paramedics are not on ground, and no work is going on. Doctors finished school at 7yrs and others 6yrs excluding nysc,entry point for doctors GL 13 while others 10 and 8.still they're not satisfied.

The only reason we are having this conversation is because it is public sector. In the private sector market forces willl decide
PersonallyI do not think the government should be employing doctors and nurses and pharmacists etc. except at primary Health care level. Definitely not the FG that should concern itself with strategy and public health issues

there is a need to rethink our secondary and tertiary care model including how to fund it.

sutelk:

If your brain was functioning as it should you would have looked at the demands of Johesu yourself to find out where they asked for same pay with doctors instead of falling for the propaganda of the minister of doctors.
Anyway, I won't need to fight any doctor where I'm going, over there there's mutual respect and the doctors over there are not so idle.
In my years of practice in this country I've come to the conclusion that the problem with doctors practicing here is laziness. While there colleagues in diaspora are engrossed in ground breaking research my people are busy fighting with admin officer on who is supposed to sign that memo, or the storekeeper on who controls inventory. I sorry for Nigeria. But thank God its no longer my business.

Who said no mutual respect here. What are your colleagues here doing? What research have they concluded . Have doctors stopped them from researching too.

Pls do and go quickly your type is not needed here.

I have been oppurtuned to listen to both sides of the divide and have come to the conclusion that majority of the johesu members have no idea what they are talking about. No doctor heads the pharmacy unit or engineering unit or any other non clinical unit in the hospital. I was told there's a head nurse who is the director of nursing services.

The only grouse I have with the doctors is that thier cmds are criminals stealing from.govt coffers. If they were better organised all this crap wouldn't happen.


P.s your entire brain capacity at it's best will be infinitesimal compared to mine when I am asleep.

thedondada:


wouldn't happen.


P.s your entire brain capacity at it's best will be infinitesimal compared to mine when I am asleep.

How do you work that one out?

Or does it make you feel better to say that?


There is no basis or evidence for that

dokiOloye:
Who was the first lab scientist?
Who was the first pharmacist?
Who was d first physiotherapist?
I guess you know already.

Can you please enlighten us . I would like to learn something new today

godisgreat4lyf:
Doctors are selfish, johesu did not ask for same salary with doctors, but because minister of health and labour are doctors, their intend to mislead the public, first they said no agreement, later now, johesu asking for equal salary, Doctors has killed medical sector, they have left clinical service to administration, Every organ in the hospital is important, now paramedics are not on ground, and no work is going on. Doctors finished school at 7yrs and others 6yrs excluding nysc,entry point for doctors GL 13 while others 10 and 8.still they're not satisfied.

You don't finish school in 5 or 6yrs cos a session is approx. 9months compared to the Dr's mandatory 1yr or more. I hate it when u count a session as a year!!!. A 5yr program takes approximately 3½-4yrs to complete for semester students, don't try to jump the gun!!!!

thedondada:


Who said no mutual respect here. What are your colleagues here doing? What research have they concluded . Have doctors stopped them from researching too.

Pls do and go quickly your type is not needed here.

I have been oppurtuned to listen to both sides of the divide and have come to the conclusion that majority of the johesu members have no idea what they are talking about. No doctor heads the pharmacy unit or engineering unit or any other non clinical unit in the hospital. I was told there's a head nurse who is the director of nursing services.

The only grouse I have with the doctors is that thier cmds are criminals stealing from.govt coffers. If they were better organised all this crap wouldn't happen.


P.s your entire brain capacity at it's best will be infinitesimal compared to mine when I am asleep.

When I saw the bolded comments I had to look at your profile, and I must say I agree with you. Your brain is indeed very active at night when everyone is asleep. Maybe you thought this was sexuality section. Please shift to your "Ashewo beer parlor thread, you lack the ability to comprehend what people are saying here.
Bye bye, I got packing to do.

Who cares how long you spent in school.?
None of that is relevant to pay.
Ultimately what matters is market forces:The value the market plaes on what you offer. People pay you for the value you add not the time you spent in school. If a clinician of whatever background is rude with poor social skills I don't want to see them again .I don't care how long they spent in school. At the top end of their game doctors are not the highest paid graduates .
I have a problem even with paying doctors the same salary

e.g If I run a hospital as a businessman why would I pay a surgeon who does 10 hip relacements or herniorrhaphies the same as one who does 30 in the same time.
Or the guy whose surgeries have to be redone/revisited more frequently. Under such a system lazy docttors carry the hardworking ones.
Pay should be based on results not how many years you spent in school. Who cares abouut that nonsense?

Nigerian doctors have this salary orientation and fail to realise that hospitals are actually businesses and their work should generate income out of which they should be paid not subsidized governmnet inefficiient quangos.

Then proper health econometrics can be applied to determine who adds value and who is just making up the numbers.

In Nigeria there is no measurement of patient satisfaction or clinical outcomes and linking that to pay that is why many doctors talk a lot of arrogant rubbish

If I run a hospital and every month a doctor sees 100 malaria cases and another non doctor brings in more money guess who is getting paid more?

Yes non-doctors increasingly have their own caseload and internatioally there is a turf war going on. In many places in the UK nurses do colposcopies and other procedures that Nigerian consultants only read about in textbooks

as a businessman I would rather have a clinical pharmacist do more units of work at a lower rate per unit and pay him more at the end of the month.

Olaoladimeji:

JOHESU isn't looking for the same pay as doctors. What we want is an increment in salary as was done for doctors.
Since 2014 doctors salary as been increased twice and no adjustment on health workers salary.
You talk of relativity, does that mean doctors salary should be increased twice and nothing done for the others?
As it is now a doctor on housemanship fresh from University is earning more than a Chief Nursing Officer who had already put in 30 years of employment.
What sought of relativity is that?

This is a fat lie. Am part of both bodies. Say what you like, I don't give a rats ass!

I will like the FG to b transparent in ds course and find a long lasting solution. Everybody in the health care team is important. Of possible get experts from developed countries, hear their views and resolve d whole issue.

Kleenatics:
I don't think JOHESU members are requesting to be placed on same salary scale with Doctors.

mister thinker, please go and read the demands and stop thinking.

Johesu parties should first deal with their in-house inequalities before fighting a lost cause by trying to earn close to doctors. Pharmacy technicians do not earn as much as pharmacists, registered nurses do not earn as much as BNSc nurses, laboratory technicians do not earn as much as their Scientist counterparts, why the hell would Johesu want to earn as as much as doctors? Inequality is everywhere and life itself is not fair, medicine was there before your read whatever to be part of Johesu. Even within Johesu, the Nurses are the least paid, pharmacist earn better than the others in the rogue group, why not equalize salaries for between themselves before crying foul to doctor's salaries? In fact, the duration of training is not only the reason why a doctor should earn higher than other health workers but the difficulty in training and acquiring skills to become a doctor way surpass the duration spent in school. Medical exams and Johesu exams no me same thing. To those who do not know history, I don't have time to explain why a doctor should head the laboratory, radiology and other selected departments, some may be too dumb to get it, hence more confusion. If it's doctors that are striking now people will be shouting that they love money too much. I just pity Nursing that went and join Johesu instead of fighting their course separately, in the end, they'll still end up last, while they should be in the fore to be close to doctors as per earnings. Lab people would benefit the most. Argue with me make thunder fire you. Proudly a Nurse, proudly a DOCTOR.

kamantan:
Nigerians should know by now that the minister of health n that of information have something in common, that is 99.9% of what comes out of their mouth is not true. remember he misinformed Nigerians that johesu never had an agreement with the FG ,he claim they could only produce minutes of meeting n not a signed agreement, but within few minutes of his fallacious and mischievous pronouncement the social media was flooded with evidence of an agreement which he appended his signature, thus coming out to tell Nigerians that johesu is asking for same pay with doctors is misleading n deceptive. enough of this egocentric behaviors in the health sector, may be the government should revert to The CONTISS, where all employees of federal ministry of health are on same salary structure.

u are d one misleading and deceiving ppl on what u dont know or not properly informed... D Johesu claimed that they had an agreement with Fed govt in 2014, which d Health Minister asked them to provide, only to come up with minutes of meeting... Pls, is minutes of meeting an agreement?....
Fed govt and Johesu only had an agreement in September 2017 where both d Health and Labour ministers and other relative stakeholders duly signed it, with a conditional statement that it would be subjected to presidency for approval... But was turned down or rejected by presidency based on claims that Johesu cant collect same pay with doctors, no where to source for that kind of money and this may trigger nation wide strike as other unions are patiently observing and waiting for the outcome.

Ekitiparapo:
JOHESU consists of 5 registered professional trade union and their demand include the following: improve health care financing, emoloyement of additional health professional, upward adjustment of CONHESS, upward review of retirement age from 60 - 65 years, arrears of skipping CONHESS 10. they are not asking for the same salary with the doctors. they want a review of salary structures. if in abroad, doctors dont collect the same salary, neurosurgeons, cardio thoracic surgeons earn more the family medicine doctors but their is comfort.the government should accede to johesu request.

These are all what entails in doctors salaries that makes d differeces...How could a driver, cleaner, community health workers, nurses, admin staff e.t.c be aggitating for skipping. Changing from Conhes to Conmes... Do they have same qualifications? Or are all Johesu professionals?...
Ï dont have anything to say on employment of additional health workers...

3moses:

These are all what entails in doctors salaries that makes d differeces...How could a driver, cleaner, community health workers, nurses, admin staff e.t.c be aggitating for skipping. Changing from Conhes to Conmes... Do they have same qualifications? Or are all Johesu professionals?...
Ï dont have anything to say on employment of additional health workers...

What did he say and what are you saying? Where did anyone talk about changing conhes to conmes

Anybody can agitate for anything that is the dignity of labour and not being a slave.

Honestly what is the business of doctors with how drivers and cleaners go about their negotiation. Doctors should simple observe silently.

If a time comes when cleaners earn more than doctors then the doctors can go to cleaning school.

As far as I am concerned doctors should remain silent

3moses:

u are d one misleading and deceiving ppl on what u dont know or not properly informed... D Johesu claimed that they had an agreement with Fed govt in 2014, which d Health Minister asked them to provide, only to come up with minutes of meeting... Pls, is minutes of meeting an agreement?....
Fed govt and Johesu only had an agreement in September 2017 where both d Health and Labour ministers and other relative stakeholders duly signed it, with a conditional statement that it would be subjected to presidency for approval... But was turned down or rejected by presidency based on claims that Johesu cant collect same pay with doctors, no where to source for that kind of money and this may trigger nation wide strike as other unions are patiently observing and waiting for the outcome.

Minutes of meeting could be an agreement if ratified and agreed. It depends on the content of the minutes. In law even verbal agreements could have contractual weight