seunH:
Please I want to ask an innocent question for enlightenment. I want to understand the correlation between the circular above and the postgraduate consultancy program (West African Postgraduate College of Pharmacist). The circular above says you can only be a consultant after reaching level 17 while for postgraduate consultancy program even a fresh pharmacist can apply and become a consultant, my question now is, which consultant are we to acknowledge, is it the civil service level 17 consultant or the one from postgraduate consultancy program? Thank you as I anticipate your kind responses.

Oga read the circular till the end

MrBigiman:


The Consultant Pharmacist abroad is not the same in Nigeria. If u get to level 15, u automatically are given consultant pharmacist with the new Memo shown with proof. Consultant pharmacist in the UK specialize in a particular branch, earn a PHD there and become advocates and guard of safe standards in that aspect eg Oncology. So a hard working 32yrs old can become a Consultant. The one here is saying if u get old in the service and attain level 17 then u are a full Consultant pharmacist, do they look the same. What about internship after BSC Nursing is that best international practice too. Very big shame.

don't get depressed over this. You were on the other thread lamenting yesterday. I told you already that by the time you migrate, you'll get to work with many many consultant pharmacists wherever you'll be working. accept the fact and swallow the bitter pill that there are now consultant pharmacist in Nigeria.

MrBigiman:


It's a shame. But Nigerian Medicine will surely enter a state of emergency, trust me. The new push at which Doctors are running out, the remaining doctors would be "Johesu Doctors" who would treat typhoid and malara from morning till night.

Lol... For Every one Nigerian doctor that leaves 10 are ready to fill his/her space

mayze:

Probably you should Google what a consultant pharmacy does before typing this,this has always been in place internationally..try and see something good in whatever u see..Nigeria ll surely be a better place.

tell am lemme add to it pharmacy degree has changed in some university its called doctor in pharmacy or D'pharm short form plus adding one year added to their study year to be called so..I no a lot of us dont no so they are free to consult.

zizirecords:


My question to you is this: how does the West African Pharmacy College issue its consultancy and specialist qualifications? I ask because a pharmacy colleague here in the NGO sector did a distant programme from the college, did an exam and was awarded fellowship shortly after. No training, no sessions, she never left her job here which is not even related to pharmacy. How does such a person now sit down with , say an ENT Surgeon and say I am a fellow specialist. I am not here to argue, I just want to learn. Thank you.

to set the record straight...For every area of specialty you have in medical sciences there's a corresponding area of specialty in pharmaceutical sciences. pharmacy practice itself is a diverse field.
If the Nigeria sets of Dr's can have their way they'll even stop discoveries in other health fields. That's why they said they don't need other professionals other health professionals.

Who wouldn't want the best qualified people in any institution? Your stup!dity knows no bounds. You are the type who voted an old man 30 years after retirement who couldn't present his school certificate to run a country full of young educated people.

That you became a medical doctor isn't a licence to Lord over other professionals. Do doctors make the medicines they prescribe? Do they make the equipments they use for surgery? so why do you in your myopic mind think you cannot be corrected as to what works best by another professional in the hospital?

Better go study and become enlightened and learn to mind your business as a physician.

MrBigiman:


Shameful rant. Ur PHD has no place in the hospital setting. Even a Medical Doctor who goes to do Masters in Internal Medicine is not recognised in clinical practice.

kenonze:
they are just worsening the problems in health sector.

Govt should as a matter of urgency, privatize all the hospitals let patient get quality care for their money.

Stop displaying ur ignorance Nd read. Its international best practice.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consultant_pharmacist

MrBigiman:
I weep for this Country. Consultancy for what?, for getting old and close to retirement. Patients will be further Decieved and will die like fowls. A Pharmacist sees a naïve patients, instead of claiming to be a pharmacist, will say I am a consultant, the gullible patient, thinking he means medical specialist may end that session is morbidity or mortality. Shame really, but we are in a confirmed shit hole though.

Stop showcasing ur ignorance. Its international best practice.

Read up pls

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consultant_pharmacist

Babybush:

Oga read the circular till the end

Bros, no be fight, Shebi I beg una before I start. I didn't understand the circular very well that what made me ask. Note I'm neither a human medic nor a pharmcist

Redfruit:
Am more concerned with the requirements for attaining the consultancy cadre. If its simply years of service, then the state government has been deceptively led to push the health sector into a war of attrition. If its through undergoing rigorous postgraduate training then we might as well give it a trial.
But the truth is that there is currently no postgraduate training college for pharmacists in the country and there is no enabling law to set up same.
This action of the state government is more like changing the directorate cadre to consultancy cadre only.

Really?
As in you are really that ignorant or plainly mischievou
mischievous? No training college and no enabling law?

jaychubi:
Consultant gini

In hospital only a doctor should be a consultant doesn't make sense for other health care workers.

We go soon get consultant cleaner nonsense, NMA should stop this B4 it's too late

Consultant pharmacist cant take order from doctors ooo n with dt there will be choas in d hospital

pharmacists dont take orders from doctors, they are medication experts, they scrutinize doctors proscriptions,and counsel patients on how to get the best therapeutic outcome from the drugs. U will be amazed to know that most don't like crossing their boundaries. Pharmacy field is big enough for them to explore.

jaychubi:
Consultant gini

In hospital only a doctor should be a consultant doesn't make sense for other health care workers.

We go soon get consultant cleaner nonsense, NMA should stop this B4 it's too late

Consultant pharmacist cant take order from doctors ooo n with dt there will be choas in d hospital

A pharmacist can't take orders from physicians on drug related matters rather a physician should take orders from pharmacists on ISSUES RELATING TO DRUS AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION. That's international best practices!

A welcome development!
Consultancy in Medical Lab Science should be implemented too

omojeesu:
Very soon this will happen:

A doctor prescribes then the consultant pharmacist says prescription is wrong or not good enough. She becomes teacher and reviewer of doctor's diagnosis determined prescription....you can guess the outcome.

You point to international best practice. When it comes to Nigeria it's another ball game. Our corruption and near insanity exploits the IBP for selfish reasons.

Satan wants to finish our health system!

With due respect sir,
A pharmacist has the right to review a doctors prescription in case there is a drug-drug interaction, drug-food interaction and also drug-diseases interaction and then make a recommendation on the best or appropriate drug to use which the doctor now has to see reasons for changing the prescription. A pharmacists is an EXPERT on drugs.This is the "international best practices" you guys have been shouting all these while. Pls, google am not here to argue. No pharmacist, i repeat NO PHARMACIST will change the prescription but will only recommend based on his knowledge on drugs which the doctor has to drop his ego and listen.If the doc refuses to listen, then and only then will the pharmacist request for a signature of the doctor so as to prevent any form of trouble on the pharmacist if the patient health gets worse or even dies as a result of the non-challant and egostic attitude of the doctor. In saner climes,the doctor will be stripped of his licence and also be sued.
In the end, it is the patient who enjoys this synergy.
Thank you

What do doctors know about drug and drug related practice that they are crying over the title "consultant pharmacy".

MrBigiman:


It's a shame. But Nigerian Medicine will surely enter a state of emergency, trust me. The new push at which Doctors are running out, the remaining doctors would be "Johesu Doctors" who would treat typhoid and malara from morning till night.

look at you...is it only doctors that are running out? what of pharmacists,nurses,radiographers? lol..ooh you think they too dont knw where they will be paid higher wages? This kind of myopic reasoning is not expected from a doctor. In the other thread you claimed that ONLY doctors are needed worldwide, when someone brought up a link of pharmacosts, nurses and radiographers needed in yhe uk and canada..you ran away.
I have been reading all you write, buy it is a pity that there is not much to learn from you. In the UK, there are consultant pharmacists who WORK IN THE HOSPITAL. I just dont know why you guys have managed to hide this from the public. But hey, the public are now enlightegned. If you feel threatened, pls go to the "international best practices" you all have been pointing out. But remember, that place you are running to you will meet a consultant pharmacist who would do ward rounds, check how the patients respond to the drug therapy and also review your prescriptions.
If you like carry naija mentality go there..let dem sue u!!!

A NON JOHESU PERSON WROTE THIS!!!!

As a seasoned public servant, my heart bleeds whenever I read what you young ones with no experience come to social media to post. I am not a member of JOHESU but look at this objectively, a fresh medical officer enters the public service at grade level (GL)12 while pharmacist and lab sci enter on GL 10, nurse on GL 8....how can these salaries be the same? doctor's call duty allowance is 4% of his basic salary while pharmacist's call duty is 2% of his basic salary...now how can 4% of GL 12 be same with 2% of GL 10?

Nurses collect shift duty allowance, how can a meagre shift duty allowance of GL 8 be the same with 4% of GL 12?

A medical officer who enters on GL 12 as resident and becomes a fellow after 4 or 6yrs is upgraded to GL 15 ..it takes a pharmacist minimum of 12 yrs to get to GL 15 and nurse minimum of 18 yrs to get to GL 15. NMA is really not helping the Nigerian health sector.

Copied

If our health care system is in disarray then the medical doctors should be held responsible because they've been at the helm of affairs for the past 3 decades.
Other health care, have realised this fact and that anomaly must stop. The world medically qualified shouldn't be misconstrued.

Jman06:
A pharmacist can't take orders from physicians on drug related matters rather a physician should take orders from pharmacists on ISSUES RELATING TO DRUS AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION. That's international best practices!

Orders?
They are not in the Army.

Usually they have a discussion and if they fail to agree there are procedures to follow .
In many countries there are published guidelines on how to treat many conditions. These are not secret anyone can access them. A hospital may choose to have its own formulary meaning e.g they will only stock drug A even though B and C are recognized alternatives.

In such a scenario the doctor falls in line and if she wants to use drug B must apply to a committee on which pharmacists ,doctor, and non-clinicians sit.

Medical doctors don't just become consultants in their respective specialties by fiat or a governor's signature.Consultancy is obtained by studying big medical books,applying skills and getting a fellowship via the National Postgraduate Medical College of Nigeria,West African College of Physicians or Surgeons.You become a consultant when you scale through the difficult obstacles and examiners of each respective bodies.These bodies have been in this business for over 5 decades in Nigeria and their accreditations and qualifications are respected, admired, now envied and feared.

Firstly,you attend a medical school after a glorious UTME results.Of course,to have a glorious UTME score, you'll need to be an exceptional secondary school science class student-the crop of the best.If you can scale through medical school,usually for 6 years,you become a medical doctor with a provisional licence to practice.You become fully licensed after a successful one year internship.This will not change soon,it's laid down process of law,safeguarded by Act of Parliament, regulated by the Medical and Dental Council of Nigeria.

Then,if your goal is to become a consultant,that is specialist in only one area of human medicine or surgery, you write aforementioned examinations of the postgraduate colleges,which are also established by laws.If you pass,you enter a residency program of your choice specialty.To become a consultant in the medical doctors' field is not a gift,it is qualification driven and I daresay this is where medicine or dentistry will always have an edge in coming years.

Of course,this edge will widen if those consultancy titles of the pharmacists, nurses,physiotherapists, medical laboratory scientists et al - when they are all eventually approved-are not regulated by agencies of laws.Your ascendancy, if based on number of years in service alone or because you're a director in the civil service with no attendant improved advanced knowledge or degree will only make you a laughingstock,a baby doctor on internship will take you to the cleaners on knowledge of drugs.Knowing how the medical field runs,you do not want to be that person.I expect the allied professionals to quickly establish advanced fellowship colleges to urgently bridge this gap.The health profession will only become better if everyone on the team is sound and sharp.As a medical person, I support all,improved pay for all and believe the NMA should sheath its attrition to enable all to be needed, as all are needed.Do not depend on a governor's largesse that can be defeated in court.

Evidently, if you're inclined to feel inferior to a medical doctor, consultant or not,more titles or more money will not make you secure.Medical doctors have a headstart of over 50years in postgraduate practice,they will only keep fine tuning their machinery and politics to improve the emoluments from governments. You will keep going on strike to catch up.That solution is a standardisation of your own profession.Patients will keep saying "I am going to the hospital to see my doctor".That too will never change.Except you want to become a surgeon or internal medicinist or obstetrician,you can not examine a patient,institute treatment or perform a surgery,at least in the Lagos state government hospitals.(laughter).If you ever do,that will be quackery.

Medical doctors have earned the respect and admiration,even fear,of other health professionals over decades.Do not blame them - knowledge ingrained from childhood is scary.This is never going to change. It is a respectable,well oiled and regulated profession and will always be,even if I also believe there are numerous areas for improvement and need for better pay nationally to compete globally.That is a discussion for the future.

dokxavi:
Medical doctors don't just become consultants in their respective specialties by fiat or a governor's signature.Consultancy is obtained by studying big medical books,applying skills and getting a fellowship via the National Postgraduate Medical College of Nigeria,West African College of Physicians or Surgeons.You become a consultant when you scale through the difficult obstacles and examiner of each respective bodies.These bodies have been in this business for over 5 decades and their accreditations and qualifications are respected and admired.

Firstly,you attend a medical school after a glorious UTME results.Of course,to have a glorious UTME score, you'll need to be an exceptional secondary school science class students-the crop of the best.If you can scale through medical school,you become a medical doctor with a provisional licence to practice.You become fully licensed after a successful one year internship.This will not change soon,it's laid down process of law,safeguarded by Act of Parliament, regulated by the Medical and Dental Council of Nigeria.

Then,if your goal is to become a consultant, you write aforementioned examinations of the postgraduate colleges,which are also established by laws.If you pass,you enter a residency program of your choice specialty.To become a consultant in the medical doctors' field is not a gift,it is qualification driven and I daresay this is where medicine or dentistry will always have an edge in coming years.

Of course,this edge will widen if those consultancy titles of the pharmacists, nurses,physiotherapists, medical laboratory scientists-when they are all eventually approved-are not regulated by agencies of laws.Your ascendancy, if based on number of years in service alone with no attendant improved knowledge will only make you a laughingstock.I expect the allied professionals to established advances fellowship colleges to urgently bridge this gap.The health profession will only become better if everyone on the team is sound and sharp.Do new depend on a governor's largesse that can be defeated in court.

Evidently, if you're inclined to feel inferior to a medical doctor, consultant or not,more titles or more money will not make you secure.Medical doctors have a headstart of over 50years,they will only keep fine tuning their machinery and politics to improve the emoluments from governments. You will keep going on strike to catch up.That solution is a standardisation of your own profession.Patients will keep saying "I am going to the hospital to see my doctor". Except you want to become a surgeon or internal medicinist or obstetrician,you can not examine a patient,institute treatment or perform a surgery.

Medical doctors have earned the respect and admiration of other health professionals over decades.This is never going to change. It's a respectable profession and will always be.

Becoming a Specialist is difficult but it is just another qualification. The qualification is NOT "consultant" . Consultant is an employment position in a hospital not a qualification
In the academic setting it is below Phd and similar to qualifications such as ICAN or commercial pilot licence

The fact is the market does not pay for qualifications but skills

No one would argue that pilots must be the CEO of Airlines. Doctors are important but so is everyone else.
Who should get more pay would depend on who brings in more revenue into the operation/business not how big the books you read are .No one cares about that

Many of the specialists with "National" or West African" Specialist qualificatons are outdated theoretical specialist who often have never seen many modern equipment.

You can save the fantasy for those who do not know Nigerian medicinewhh is simlar to witchcraft often.

We need to stop this pettiness and move on. The idea of doctor is oga is dying. To gain respect you must respect others

aribisala0:


Orders?
They are not in the Army.

Usually they have a discussion and if they fail to agree there are procedures to follow .
In many countries there are published guidelines on how to treat many conditions. These are not secret anyone can access them. A hospital may choose to have its own formulary meaning e.g they will only stock drug A even though B and C are recognized alternatives.

In such a scenario the doctor falls in line and if she wants to use drug B must apply to a committee on which pharmacists ,doctor, and non-clinicians sit.

I borrowed that word "order" from our nairaland medical doctors and students. I'm aware that you don't actually order a professional on what to do, rather you seek his/her expert opinion by presenting a case for him to scrutinize and act on, while irregularities are discussed between the two before actions are taken.

But our nairaland online medical doctors and students are the ones who think that they have the rights to "order" healthcare professionals who are not physicians.

YOU ARE CORRECT

WHERE PRACTITIONERS ARE SANE AND ARE WORKING TOGETHER AS A TEAM FOR THE GOOD OF THE PATIENT.

Eldorado14:


With due respect sir,
A pharmacist has the right to review a doctors prescription in case there is a drug-drug interaction, drug-food interaction and also drug-diseases interaction and then make a recommendation on the best or appropriate drug to use which the doctor now has to see reasons for changing the prescription. A pharmacists is an EXPERT on drugs.This is the "international best practices" you guys have been shouting all these while. Pls, google am not here to argue. No pharmacist, i repeat NO PHARMACIST will change the prescription but will only recommend based on his knowledge on drugs which the doctor has to drop his ego and listen.If the doc refuses to listen, then and only then will the pharmacist request for a signature of the doctor so as to prevent any form of trouble on the pharmacist if the patient health gets worse or even dies as a result of the non-challant and egostic attitude of the doctor. In saner climes,the doctor will be stripped of his licence and also be sued.
In the end, it is the patient who enjoys this synergy.
Thank you

A consultant is a person who has reached the peak of his profession and can give independent expert advce in his field whether it be poultry management or house construction. Technically using the term for ANY employee is inaccurate since what an employee does is not "consult" . The origin of that terminology is from a time when doctors gave independent advice as self employed persons before they became absorbed into the NHS as full employees. It is an anachronism.

Consultants are people like lawyers who work for their own firm but come into your premises to "consult" or mercenaries who come to help an army technically in war he is not an employee.

So the adoption of the terminology in Nigeria is misguided.

aribisala0:


Becoming a Specialist is difficult but it is just another qualification. The qualification is NOT "consultant" . Consultant is an employment position in a hospital not a qualification
In the academic setting it is below Phd and similar to qualifications such as ICAN or commercial pilot licence

The fact is the market does not pay for qualifications but skills

No one would argue that pilots must be the CEO of Airlines. Doctors are important but so is everyone else.
Who should get more pay would depend on who brings in more revenue into the operation/business not how big the books you read are .No one cares about that

Many of the specialists with "National" or West African" Specialist qualificatons are outdated theoretical specialist who often have never seen many modern equipment.

You can save the fantasy for those who do not know Nigerian medicinewhh is simlar to witchcraft often.

We need to stop this pettiness and move on. The idea of doctor is oga is dying. To gain respect you must respect others

Everyone is respected.Fact remains you might be respected and not feel respected. That's for you to find a solution to.
The doctor is oga in his field, be oga in yours.He might not have seen a modern equipment of your fantasy, fact remains he does his job conscientiously and knows his onions as per knowledge that you can never compete with him.RN,RM are competitive and well taught,I must say and can become consultant in nursing,if they wish as far as they have gained the required knowledge.I don't want to be conversing with a dullard who bears consultant title.As I imagine it,I laugh.
This pettiness should stop.Specialists are relevant worldwide and haven't been abolished.Surgeons are still relevant and a nurse can not be a surgeon. It might be painful to you but it's the reality.You want to be a surgeon, go to medical school, pass through the postgraduate colleges and be a consultant by earning a fellowship in surgery. All respectable professions are regulated by law.Your pains will not change that.

aribisala0:
A consultant is a person who has reached the peak of his profession and can give independent expert advce in his field whether it be poultry management or house construction. Technically using the term for ANY employee is inaccurate since what an employee does is not "consult" . The origin of that terminology is from a time when doctors gave independent advice as self employed persons before they became absorbed into the NHS as full employees. It is an anachronism.

Consultants are people like lawyers who work for their own firm but come into your premises to "consult" or mercenaries who come to help an army technically in war he is not an employee.

So the adoption of the terminology in Nigeria is misguided.

Agreeable but the medical field as a regulated profession is based on verifiable knowledge not just because of years in practice.This is not Nigerian,it's worldwide.

dokxavi:
Agreeable but the medical field as a regulated profession is based on verifiable knowledge not just because of years in practice.This is not Nigerian,it's worldwide.

http://www.wapharm.org
This is the website of the West African post graduate college of pharmacist

MrBigiman:
I weep for this Country. Consultancy for what?, for getting old and close to retirement. Patients will be further Decieved and will die like fowls. A Pharmacist sees a naïve patients, instead of claiming to be a pharmacist, will say I am a consultant, the gullible patient, thinking he means medical specialist may end that session is morbidity or mortality. Shame really, but we are in a confirmed shit hole though.

cry me a river.
The news really pain you

dokxavi:
Agreeable but the medical field as a regulated profession is based on verifiable knowledge not just because of years in practice.This is not Nigerian,it's worldwide.

What is the point of this sentence. I sincerely do not get it

Is any profession based on unverifiable knowldge?

Deltayankeeboi:
some selfish quack doctors will not like this.

anyway they can now start commiting their long due awaited suicides

S A V A G E

dokxavi:

Everyone is respected.Fact remains you might be respected and not feel respected. That's for you to find a solution to.
The doctor is oga in his field, be oga in yours.He might not have seen a modern equipment of your fantasy, fact remains he does his job conscientiously and knows his onions as per knowledge that you can never compete with him.RN,RM are competitive and well taught,I must say and can become consultant in nursing,if they wish as far as they have gained the required knowledge.I don't want to be conversing with a dullard who bears consultant title.As I imagine it,I laugh.
This pettiness should stop.Specialists are relevant worldwide and haven't been abolished.Surgeons are still relevant and a nurse can not be a surgeon. It might be painful to you but it's the reality.You want to be a surgeon, go to medical school, pass through the postgraduate colleges and be a consultant by earning a fellowship in surgery. All respectable professions are regulated by law.Your pains will not change that.

You take things personal unnecessarily. WHat do you know about me? Talk like someone who actually went to university. Who am I competing with? If anyone is competing with another let the market decide.All thiis noise is pointless. Some prostitutes earn more than doctors that is the market for you.

You keep parrotting "go to medcal school" on a faceless forum. How do you know who went and did not go. Do you know who went to medical school before even you were born?
Do all doctors share these supremacist ideas?

I know that people have no argument when they make it personal. Go to medical school, your pains etc all of that is the talk of a very juvenile mind.

Concentrate. What are the issues here. That ALL doctor want to boss every other health professional? That is outdated.

The reality is in places where doctors have been unmasked and neutered it has been led by doctors. It is other doctors that have shown how to neuter the profession

Babybush:


http://www.wapharm.org
This is the website of the West African post graduate college of pharmacist

I know this already.
We can now agree that pharmacists with fellowship with the required knowledge can be called "consultants". It does not weaken my practice,it strengthens it as I can seek superior advice from a colleague pharmacist,if necessary. I make recommendations based on that advice.

Please don't misunderstand medical doctors, they are,in the most, liberal and allow outside input.They just want that input to be superior and of utility. Doctors are already trained to seek second or third opinions for the good of the client and in the Hippocratic oath,it says seek knowledge. I know all doctors refer patients beyond their limits of knowledge (no man knows or has it all) to better qualified or equipped colleagues.That input must be advanced for the good of the patients, I am certain that's the position of the NMA.

In fact,that is one of the bedrocks of the medical doctors' field.