I truly want to know why people pray or hold unto the belief that their God loves them. . . .A very good friend of mine(we kind of fell apart as a result of my atheism and complete disregard for religion and all it entails, but we still remain close because he feels he some how has the power to show me the "light" recently had an accident and I went to visit him at the family residence after he was discharged from the hospital, others came to visit the family as well. We were all assembled together to pray and two people volunteered to pray for him, one of them(the pastor) was asking their God to come and rescue the guy from his predicament and heal him quickly. He then concluded that the accident was a test from the same God they were praying to and asking for his help to heal the friend of mine, The second guy prayed along the same lines but quite differently. After the whole thing they started singing and praising their God and all despite believing that the same God controls everything including the ghastly motor accident that left him with broken bones and all. . . .Firstly, I was there when the guy was about to travel, he even prayed in my presence for his God to protect him and grant him journey mercies before he embarked on the journey. . . . .

Secondly, I just cannot fathom how people can praise and worship some deity who by their own admission caused the sickness and sorrow they are praying against?. . . I just can not get it.

It seems like when it comes to God people just create reality according to their own thoughts, feelings, and actions. Its completely beyond my comprehension why people do these things. . . . .

mazaje:

I truly want to know why people pray or hold unto the belief that their God loves them. . . .

if u do not know a person, can u know how good or nice he/she is? same thing applies to God.
Since u do not know God, dont u think it is inappropriate to come to a conclusion that God does not love us. . . . . .do u not objectively consider urself unqualified to make such assesments?

A very good friend of mine(we kind of fell apart as a result of my atheism and complete disregard for religion and all it entails, but we still remain close because he feels he some how has the power to show me the "light" recently had an accident and I went to visit him at the family residence after he was discharged from the hospital, others came to visit the family as well. We were all assembled together to pray and two people volunteered to pray for him, one of them(the pastor) was asking their God to come and rescue the guy from his predicament and heal him quickly. He then concluded that the accident was a test from the same God they were praying to and asking for his help to heal the friend of mine, The second guy prayed along the same lines but quite differently. After the whole thing they started singing and praising their God and all despite believing that the same God controls everything including the ghastly motor accident that left him with broken bones and all. . . .

1. Those who prayed, prayed according to their understanding. but is their understanding wrong? . . .No. while God did not create an accident for the unfortunate dude, the accident was however in the knowledge of God. here is what the scriptures says.
. . . . .many are the afflictions of the righteous, but the Lord delivers us out of them all. psalm 34:19
. .  . . . .psalm 119:67&75 teaches us that afflictions draw us closer to Himself, to know and fear Him.
. . . . .though we walk through the valley of the shadow of death, we will fear no evil for thou art with us psalm 23
. . . . . Jesus said "I leave u my peace, not as the world gives it, but my peace that passes all understanding" . It is this peace that is beyond your human atheistic and supposedly rational understanding that persons of faith who face affliction experience,  . . .so that even when the tide suggests hopelessness, there is a shinning light inside from the Lord most high.


2. by praying, they make a confession to the ultimate one . . . . , because through it all, we know that God is good.

Firstly, I was there when the guy was about to travel, he even prayed in my presence for his God to protect him and grant him journey mercies before he embarked on the journey. . . . .

You have no understanding of what prayer entails or how it works. . . . the scriptures says if we harbour iniquity in our heart, the Lord will not hear us. . . . can u testify that your friends heart was without sin?
The scriptures says that it is impossible to please God without faith . . , so did your friend pray by faith or fear?

Secondly, I just cannot fathom how people can praise and worship some deity who by their own admission caused the sickness and sorrow they are praying against?. . . I just can not get it.

unfortunately not everyone who sings and dance praises or worships God. To entail in Godly worship involves a walk with God in holiness and purity.

It seems like when it comes to God people just create reality according to their own thoughts, feelings, and actions. Its completely beyond my comprehension why people do these things. . . . .

it seems to me that u find it inappropriate to confess your ignorance on God related matters. u dont know God, u as such have no basis for making the above innuendos.

mazaje.i want u 2 understand dat d accident may b mor dan dat if he did not pray.and pls av u forgoten job.it may just b a test of faith.
back 2 ur question'personally i believe God loves me and u.dat's y he died on d cross.out of is abundant love 4 u is spearin ur life till 2day after which you did not beleive in him.
wat if u die 2day and get to know God exist.what will you do.give your life to Jesus he loves you so much.tomorrow may b too late

noetic16:

if u do not know a person, can u know how good or nice he/she is? same thing applies to God.
Since u do not know God, dont u think it is inappropriate to come to a conclusion that God does not love us. . . . . .do u not objectively consider urself unqualified to make such assesments?

Don't you think that the God loving people mantra has been over beating? I was not even talking about my self but about my friend who believes in a God that will guide and protect him like a father will protect his Children. . .How does your God love people? By failing to protect those that ALWAYS believe that he is always there to guide and protect them?. . .Will you allow your son whom you love to be involved in an unnecessary accident that might result in him not having the ability to ever walk again? Two days before the accident my friend was sing" On Christ the solid rock I stand all other rock is sinking sand" It only makes sense if this solid rock of his is imaginary. I KNOW VERY WELL that you will not allow your friend to be in the condition that he is if you have the ability to prevent it from happening talk less of a good God that allegedly "loves people" that worship him. . .Where is the love. . . . .

1. Those who prayed, prayed according to their understanding. but is their understanding wrong? . . .No. while God did not create an accident for the unfortunate dude, the accident was however in the knowledge of God. here is what the scriptures says.
. . . . .many are the afflictions of the righteous, but the Lord delivers us out of them all. psalm 34:19
. .  . . . .psalm 119:67&75[b] teaches us that afflictions draw us closer to Himself, to know and fear Him.[/b]
. . . . .[b]though we walk through the valley of the shadow of death, we will fear no evil for thou art with us psalm [/b]23
. . . . . Jesus said "I leave u my peace, not as the world gives it, but my peace that passes all understanding" . It is this peace that is beyond your human atheistic and supposedly rational understanding that persons of faith who face affliction experience,  . . .so that even when the tide suggests hopelessness, there is a shinning light inside from the Lord most high.

Did you bother to read what you wrote down from psalm 34:19? Did you not see where it says he will deliver us out of them all?. . . .Last time I checked both Christians and non Christians suffer from the same harm and misfortune, no? Do your truly believe that a God that can do all things was with my friend and still allowed him to have that accident?. . . .How does loosing your ability to walk make you love and fear a God whom you believe is so powerful that he has the ability to protect you from all harm as my friend does?. . . .Like everything religious there is always a clause to explain absurdity away. . . .If my friend is not a Christian then NO body is a Christian. . . .

2. by praying, they make a confession to the ultimate one . . . . , because through it all, we know that God is good.

God is good how? By failing to protect some one that VERY STRONGLY believes he will protect him and guide him? I was there when he was praying before he went on the journey. He prayed for God to protect him as he believes God always does he said in his prayers. . . .True he made some confession and offered some praises to his God but his main aim was to ask for protection in a God he believes is his father. . . .

You have no understanding of what prayer entails or how it works. . . . the scriptures says if we harbour iniquity in our heart, the Lord will not hear us. . . . can u testify that your friends heart was without sin?
The scriptures says that it is impossible to please God without faith . . , so did your friend pray by faith or fear?

What is this?. . .One minute you are talking about fearing God, now you are talking about having faith. He has faith, perhaps he has more than you. . . .That I am sure of. . . .

unfortunately not everyone who sings and dance praises or worships God. To entail in Godly worship involves a walk with God in holiness and purity.

He does believe in all these, I repeat if he is not a Christian then NO body is a Christian, and am serious about it. . . .

it seems to me that u find it inappropriate to confess your ignorance on God related matters. u dont know God, u as such have no basis for making the above innuendos.

Actually I opened this thread based on what I observe and see going on around me, not based on what your definition of God or prayer is. . . . .

AYODEJI4LOVE:

mazaje[b].i want u 2 understand dat d accident may b mor dan dat if he did not pray.and pls av u forgoten job.it may just b a test of faith.[/b]
back 2 your question'personally i believe God loves me and u.dat's y he died on d cross.out of is abundant love 4 u is spearin your life till 2day after which you did not beleive in him.
wat if u die 2day and get to know God exist.what will you do.give your life to Jesus he loves you so much.tomorrow may b too late

Test of faith eh?. . . .What could be worse than the chance of losing your ability to ever walk again?. . . .God loves you and died on the cross for you? When did any God appear to you and personally told you that he loves you and died for you?. . . .

mazaje:

Don't you think that the God loving people mantra has been over beating? I was not even talking about my self but about my friend who believes in a God that will guide and protect him like a father will protect his Children. . .How does your God love people? By failing to protect those that ALWAYS believe that he is always there to guide and protect them?. . .Will you allow your son whom you love to be involved in an unnecessary accident that might result in him not having the ability to ever walk again? Two days before the accident my friend was sing" On Christ the solid rock I stand all other rock is sinking sand" It only makes sense if this solid rock of his is imaginary. I KNOW VERY WELL that you will not allow your friend to be in the condition that he is if you have the ability to prevent it from happening  talk less of a good God that allegedly "loves people" that worship him. . .Where is the love. . . . .

1. This is rather LAME. You questioned the rationale behind the belief in a good/loving God. And I questioned the objectivity in u asking that question. how can u access the goodness of God if u DONT know God? . . . , how can I pass judgement on mazaje's character, if I dont know him?

2. Your understanding of love is deeply FLAWED. There is something called eternal endless life. A life without the ills and evil norms on our present planet. If the challenges we face in this limited world enables us to live in eternal life. ,  ,  .does that not impugn any malice u hold to the rationality of love?
how and why did u come to the conclusion that the accident was an "unnecessary accident"? since this accident has further propelled him to believe more in God and pray more, how then is this accident in your self esteemed wisdom unnecessary to his personal spiritual development?

3. Dude, God loves everyone and that includes atheists like u who do not acknowledge Him. . . . .the only problem here is that u have no understanding of what the love of God means.

Did you bother to read what you wrote down from psalm 34:19? Did you not see where it says he will deliver us out of them all?. . . .Last time I checked both Christians and non Christians suffer from the same harm and misfortune, no? Do your truly believe that a God that can do all things was with my friend and still allowed him to have that accident?. . . .How does loosing your ability to walk make you love and fear a God whom you believe is so powerful that he has the ability to protect you from all harm as my friend does?. . . .Like everything religious there is always a clause to explain absurdity away. . . .If my friend is not a Christian then NO body is a Christian. . . .

how does the above mantra impugn the truths contained in psalm 34:19? what your friend is facing is an affliction . . . . .the testimony of God through David stands that God will deliver the righteous from all afflictions.

God is good how? By failing to protect some one that VERY STRONGLY believes he will protect him and guide him? I was there when he was praying before he went on the journey. He prayed for God to protect him as he believes God always does he said in his prayers. . . .True he made some confession and offered some praises to his God but his main aim was to ask for protection in a God he believes is his father. . . .

What EXACTLY makes u think God did not answer his prayers? how about the millions of times your friend had travelled and was safe? did u acknowledge God for his safety? do u acknowledge God for the life your friend has lived before this incident? The problem with your half baked arguments is that u only remember God when events turn bad. . .but when they are good, u idolise your man made human-scientific-gods. This is rather lame and dishonest.

The way God answers prayers are different from what we can perceive in our human consciousness. One thing I know is that the thoughts of God are VERY DEEP (psalm 92:5) I am as such persuaded to believe that through this tragedy, God has a plan and lesson for the dude ,  ,  . .

What is this?. . .One minute you are talking about fearing God, now you are talking about having faith. He has faith, perhaps he has more than you. . . .That I am sure of. . . .

1. Dude, fearing God is the same as having faith. you cannot have faith in whom u dont fear. To fear God is to love God, to love God is to obey His commandments, to obey Him is to know Him and if u know Him u will fing Him capable and have absolute faith in Him

2. have u ever seen me in person before? have I ever made any contact with u outside of nairaland? so how did become so gifted to be able to discern my level of faith?
The way u sit behind a computer and type all forms of lies and innuendos with the intention of misleading/misinforming everyone is highly despicable.

I did not question the faith or spiritual status of your friend . . . .all I did was to highlight the connection between faith and answering prayers.

He does believe in all these, I repeat if he is not a Christian then NO body is a Christian, and am serious about it. . . .

what is this? . ,  . .and u dare accuse others of being dogmatic and deluded?

Actually I opened this thread based on what I observe and see going on around me, not based on what your definition of God or prayer is. . . . .

well if u dont know what prayer means . . . . dont u think u should ask?

some people can believe God thru eye to eye Miracles

noetic16:

1. This is rather LAME. You questioned the rationale behind the belief in a good/loving God. And I questioned the objectivity in u asking that question. how can u access the goodness of God if u DONT know God? . . . , how can I pass judgement on mazaje's character, if I dont know him?

The fact is that people don't really understand the God hypothesis(You inclusive) as I aforementioned when it comes to God people just create reality according to their own thoughts, feelings, and actions.

2. Your understanding of love is deeply FLAWED. There is something called eternal endless life. A life without the ills and evil norms on our present planet. If the challenges we face in this limited world enables us to live in eternal life. ,  ,  .does that not impugn any malice u hold to the rationality of love?

It is your own understanding of love that is ridiculous and crazy. . . . .There is a belief men invented which they call eternal and endless life, A baseless belief that has no evidence for it at all, a fantasy and make belief that has no basis at all in reality. Love is love not your twisted idea of love, If you love your child you will protect him. You will not allow your friend to have such an accident if you have the ability to stop it, what more of an all loving and powerful God that can do all things. . . .It makes sense only if such a God is imaginary, which actually is the case . . . .

how and why did u come to the conclusion that the accident was an "unnecessary accident"? since this accident has further propelled him to believe more in God and pray more, how then is this accident in your self esteemed wisdom unnecessary to his personal spiritual development?

That is what amazes me more. I said that I just cannot fathom how people can praise and worship some deity who by their own admission caused the sickness and sorrow they are praying against, How you guys do this i don't know. So your God allowed him to have an accident and loss his ability to ever walk again because he wants him to grow spritual?. . . . .Hmmmm interesting. . . .

3. Dude, God loves everyone and that includes atheists like u who do not acknowledge Him. . . . .the only problem here is that u have no understanding of what the love of God means.

Will you allow God to tell people he loves them himself?. . . .Why is it that it is always people like you that are ALWAYS propagating this old mantra. Do you love your family? Will you allow any of them to have an accident and lose his/her ability to walk if you had the ability to stop the accident?. . .Love is love not the twisted idea of love you are trying to portray here. . . .

how does the above mantra impugn the truths contained in psalm 34:19? what your friend is facing is an affliction . . . . .the testimony of God through David stands that God will deliver the righteous from all afflictions.

He might be unable to ever walk again so how has God delivered him through his afflictions? Sometimes you really need to read what you are posting. . . .

What EXACTLY makes u think God did not answer his prayers? how about the millions of times your friend had travelled and was safe? did u acknowledge God for his safety? do u acknowledge God for the life your friend has lived before this incident? The problem with your half baked arguments is that u only remember God when events turn bad. . .but when they are good, u idolise your man made human-scientific-gods. This is rather lame and dishonest.

I don't even remember God in anything I do, I just wanted to understand why people believe that their God loves them when there is no evidence for that at all. . . .So God was the one that was saving my friend all these while untill now eh?. . . .Hmmmm intresting. . . .

The way God answers prayers are different from what we can perceive in our human consciousness. One thing I know is that the thoughts of God are VERY DEEP (psalm 92:5) I am as such persuaded to believe that through this tragedy, God has a plan and lesson for the dude ,  ,  . .

So your God's plans for his 'children" include allowing them to lose their ability to ever walk again eh?. . . .Interesting. . . . .

1. Dude, fearing God is the same as having faith. you cannot have faith in whom u dont fear. To fear God is to love God, to love God is to obey His commandments, to obey Him is to know Him and if u know Him u will fing Him capable and have absolute faith in Him

It is only religion and its very twisted ideas and way of though that will tell you that fear is a good thing . . . . Fear God, fear this, fear that. . .Its always about fear. . . .

2. have u ever seen me in person before? have I ever made any contact with u outside of nairaland? so how did become so gifted to be able to discern my level of faith?
The way u sit behind a computer and type all forms of lies and innuendos with the intention of misleading/misinforming everyone is highly despicable.

Learn to read I said he might have more faith than you, How did you come to the conclusion that he does not have faith? Is it only noetic that has faith? The way you sit behind the computer throwing away LAME and ridiculous apologies is really despicable. . . .

I did not question the faith or spiritual status of your friend . . . .all I did was to highlight the connection between faith and answering prayers.

You did question his faith, If not you would have not made that comment. . . .

what is this? . ,  . .and u dare accuse others of being dogmatic and deluded?

well if u dont know what prayer means . . . . dont u think u should ask?

What is prayer noetic. . . . .

mazaje:


The fact is that people don't really understand the God hypothesis(You inclusive) as I aforementioned when it comes to God people just create reality according to their own thoughts, feelings, and actions.

This is leading no where, as u keep throwing up all forms of irrelevant sentiments. The points are simple.
A. Noetic knows God, and as such is capable of talking about God . . . . .Noetic says God is good and loving . , . .his opinion is based on experience and well established FACTS.

B. Mazaje does NOT know God, and is as such NOT capable of making an honest,objective, informative opinion about God. . . . . .Mazaje states that God is not good. This is simply character assassination. . . . .u are impugning the character of a person u do not know. To find out who God is, walk with Him.

It is your own understanding of love that is ridiculous and crazy. . . . .There is a belief men invented which they call eternal and endless life, A baseless belief that has no evidence for it at all, a fantasy and make belief that has no basis at all in reality. Love is love not your twisted idea of love, If you love your child you will protect him. You will not allow your friend to have such an accident if you have the ability to stop it, what more of an all loving and powerful God that can do all things. . . .It makes sense only if such a God is imaginary, which actually is the case . . .

.

blah blah blah . . . .

u criticised my understanding of love, but u are unable to come up with something insightful as an alternative. How long would a man live on earth, at most 130 years . . . .can u compare 130 years to over 1,000,000 eternal years? so why then do u come up ill-informed conception about the love of God? or do u have any scientific evidence that suggests that there is no eternal life?

That is what amazes me more. I said that I just cannot fathom how people can praise and worship some deity who by their own admission caused the sickness and sorrow they are praying against, How you guys do this i don't know. So your God allowed him to have an accident and loss his ability to ever walk again because he wants him to grow spritual?. . . . .Hmmmm interesting. . . .

why was the accident in ur self-elevating opinion an "unnecessary accident" since u seem to be more intelligent than God?

Will you allow God to tell people he loves them himself?. . . .Why is it that it is always people like you that are ALWAYS propagating this old mantra. Do you love your family? Will you allow any of them to have an accident and lose his/her ability to walk if you had the ability to stop the accident?. . .Love is love not the twisted idea of love you are trying to portray here. . . .

he has . , . , the only problem is that u are spiritually deaf and dumb and cannot perceive what He is saying . . . .so I say to u, .the LORD loves u.

He might be unable to ever walk again so how has God delivered him through his afflictions? Sometimes you really need to read what you are posting. . . .

If tommorow ur friend gets up to walk against all expectations . . , . .would u give God the glory?

I don't even remember God in anything I do, I just wanted to understand why people believe that their God loves them when there is no evidence for that at all. . . .So God was the one that was saving my friend all these while untill now eh?. . . .Hmmmm intresting. . . .

but u do remember Him when the going gets tough . . .right?

There is no evidence to also suggest that God does not love them. As a matter of fact God does. It is unintelligent and unspeakable to suggest that we intelligent beings are without a creator, and by communion with our creator we know that He loves us.

It is only religion and its very twisted ideas and way of though that will tell you that fear is a good thing . . . . Fear God, fear this, fear that. . .Its always about fear. . . .

Typical ignorance. The fear of God does not connote the lay man's fear of a lion. The fear of God is to love God and to love God is to do His will. Simple.

Learn to read I said he might have more faith than you, How did you come to the conclusion that he does not have faith? Is it only noetic that has faith? The way you sit behind the computer throwing away LAME and ridiculous apologies is really despicable. . . .

blah blah blah

What is prayer noetic. . . . .

Prayer is an incessant communication between man and God. Prayer is the evidence of a steadfast relationship between man and God. It is not a one-off event that happens when a man is hopeless . . . .u cannot start praying in fear or in the face of difficulty and expect a result. Prayer is to continually be in the spiritual presence of God.

Prayer is NOT an incantation u make before travelling . . . . .it is a product of faith and not fear.

noetic16:

This is leading no where, as u keep throwing up all forms of irrelevant sentiments. The points are simple.
A. Noetic knows God, and as such is capable of talking about God . . . . .Noetic says God is good and loving . , . .his opinion is based on experience and well established FACTS.

B. Mazaje does NOT know God, and is as such NOT capable of making an honest,objective, informative opinion about God. . . . . .Mazaje states that God is not good. This is simply character assassination. . . . .u are impugning the character of a person u do not know. To find out who God is, walk with Him.

I do not think anyone can talk about the characteristics of someone exhaustively when he or she affirms that the same someone doesn't exist, except only if he/she knows the person very well and ignorantly pretends of no knowledge of same.

I haven't met seun of NL neither i have spoken to him, How can i speak about seun's character if hes wicked or a gentle man?

noetic16:

There is no evidence to also suggest that God does not love them. As a matter of fact God does. we know that He loves us.

First hand experience do count in everything.' That i was told is different from i knew personally.

'God showed me love when i needed it and proved to me personally of his existence is absolutely different from i heard from people that God is wicked or I assumed God is wicked and not loving.

If u are to assert any thing u must prove it or else its a frivolous statement based on unreasonable assumptions.

For me as Toba God loves me and as such from ur post mr noetic i believe God loves u. If we re to sample opinions from over 500,000 members of NL larger % will agree with the both of us based on their experience with God that God loves them

noetic16:

It is unintelligent and unspeakable to suggest that we intelligent beings are without a creator, and by communion with our creator

I dont think science have ruled out the possibility of the above. Man is always a replica of the orientation he has/had. For man to be an intelligent designer to design an airplane, land cars, water boats etc means that the intelligence might have been deposited into man by someone more intelligent that man as a great creator that man cannot see

noetic16:

This is leading no where, as u keep throwing up all forms of irrelevant sentiments. The points are simple.
A. Noetic knows God, and as such is capable of talking about God . . . . .Noetic says God is good and loving . , . .his opinion is based on experience and well established FACTS.

Same old drivel. . . .Noetic's evidence to show that God is good and loving is WHAT?. . .Does noetic loves his family? Will he allow any of them to loose his/her ability to work he has has the chance to prevent it?. . . .When then does noetic's God who is alleged to be all loving allow his "Children" loose their ability to walk?. . . .Where is the love?. . . . .

B. Mazaje does NOT know God, and is as such NOT capable of making an honest,objective, informative opinion about God. . . . . .Mazaje states that God is not good. This is simply character assassination. . . . .u are impugning the character of a person u do not know. To find out who God is, walk with Him.

Mazaje did not even state if any God is good or not, all i said is that I find it perplexing when people worship and praise a God they already admitted is responbile for their misfortune.
.

u criticised my understanding of love, but u are unable to come up with something insightful as an alternative. How long would a man live on earth, at most 130 years . . . .can u compare 130 years to over 1,000,000 eternal years? so why then do u come up ill-informed conception about the love of God? or do u have any scientific evidence that suggests that there is no eternal life?

Your eternal years hyopthesis REMIANS a FANTASY that has no basis in reality. . . .Your evidence to show that there is any part of human consciousness that survives bodily death is what? I have been asking you this question for the past 2 years now, but you keep running around chasing shadows. . . .If even if we are to accept you fantasy as real, what has eternal life got to do with lack of protection in the here and now?. . .Why do christians pray for protection in the here and now, if the here and now is not important?. . . .Why do you pray for protection?

why was the accident in your self-elevating opinion an "unnecessary accident" since u seem to be more intelligent than God?

The accident is of no use to me because it causes unnecessary hardsip and pains, the family will loose a lot of resources as a result. I will protect him and not allow him go through such pains if i had the chance, every human will do the same to his friend whom he loves, But God always gets the speacial pleading. . . . .Very telling since God is imaginary. . . . .

he has . , . , the only problem is that u are spiritually deaf and dumb and cannot perceive what He is saying . . . .so I say to u, .the LORD loves u.

Nice to know. . . .

If tommorow your friend gets up to walk against all expectations . . , . .would u give God the glory?

Give which god glory? he is about to be taken to germany where the doctors will try their best and see if they can make him walk over time. . .If he gets to walk again, it will be as a result of the german doctor's effort not some imaginary deity. . . .

but u do remember Him when the going gets tough . . .right?

There is no evidence to also suggest that God does not love them. As a matter of fact God does. It is unintelligent and unspeakable to suggest that we intelligent beings are without a creator, and by communion with our creator we know that He loves us.

Typical ignorance. The fear of God does not connote the lay man's fear of a lion. The fear of God is to love God and to love God is to do His will. Simple.

blah blah blah

Fear and love in the same sentence is that an oxymoron?. . . .Fear god and love him

Prayer is an incessant communication between man and God. Prayer is the evidence of a steadfast relationship between man and God. It is not a one-off event that happens when a man is hopeless . . . .u cannot start praying in fear or in the face of difficulty and expect a result. Prayer is to continually be in the spiritual presence of God.

Prayer is NOT an incantation u make before travelling . . . . .it is a product of faith and not fear.

So when you talk to your god before you travel its not prayers eh?. . . . . . . .Keep on chasing shadows. . . .

toba:



I do not think anyone can talk about the characteristics of someone exhaustively when he or she affirms that the same someone doesn't exist, except only if he/she knows the person very well and ignorantly pretends of no knowledge of same.

I haven't met seun of NL neither i have spoken to him, How can i speak about seun's character if hes wicked or a gentle man?

It is refreshing to see that no one subscribes to mazajes ill-informed fantasies. I still do not understand how any one can rationally create an opinion of a person they do not know. . . .its even more pitiable when such opinion is presented as fact.

Question: why is the above post so hard for mazaje to understand? why cant mazaje comprehend that it is not acceptable to construct an opinion of a person without knowing him/her?
Answer: Mazaje loves denial and delusion. This is not rocket science . . . .or is it?

I dont think science have ruled out the possibility of the above. Man is always a replica of the orientation he has/had. For man to be an intelligent designer to design an airplane, land cars, water boats etc means that the intelligence might have been deposited into man by someone more intelligent that man as a great creator that man cannot see

Dont say the above to mazaje . . . , he believes man is too "perfect" to be created . , .I wonder what intelligence drives his argument.

mazaje:

Same old drivel. . . .Noetic's evidence to show that God is good and loving is WHAT?. . .Does noetic loves his family? Will he allow any of them to loose his/her ability to work he has has the chance to prevent it?. . . .When then does noetic's God who is alleged to be all loving allow his "Children" loose their ability to walk?. . . .Where is the love?. . . . .

I am sure I stated explicitly that my opinion is a function of personal experience. why EXACTLY is mazaje ignoring this point?

1. You are simply spiritually ignorant. Affliction is part of the way a believer is strengthened. Abraham is called the father of faith, yet for 25 years he had no child of his own. Job was a man considered righteous before God, yet he was afflicted and lost all he ever had. David was a man after God's heart, yet he lived as a destitute in the wilderness for 3 years . . . .and many others.

Affliction is part of the christian faith to grow and get strengthened, . . .the fact that u are ignorant of this submission is no fault of mine but yours.

2. attempting to quantify God's love is just ridiculous. how about getting to know God first.

Mazaje did not even state if any God is good or not, all i said is that I find it perplexing when people worship and praise a God they already admitted is responbile for their misfortune.

Please spare me this crap. Is this the first time u are making such assertions about God. . . there are over 100 threads where u have asserted such. . . . the question is where is the EVIDENCE to back up any of ur assertions?
.

Your eternal years hyopthesis REMIANS a FANTASY that has no basis in reality. . . .Your evidence to show that there is any part of human consciousness that survives bodily death is what? I have been asking you this question for the past 2 years now, but you keep running around chasing shadows. . . .If even if we are to accept you fantasy as real, what has eternal life got to do with lack of protection in the here and now?. . .Why do christians pray for protection in the here and now, if the here and now is not important?. . . .Why do you pray for protection?

I laugh in japanese.

1. on what basis do u dismiss spiritual experiences. on what basis do u dismiss testimonies of those who have seen heaven and hell from all over the world.

2. on what basis do u dismiss millions of verified personal miracles all over the world? on what basis do u dismiss the promises of God? where is ur evidence that eternity does not exist?

3. You dont know God, u dont know the meaning of prayers, u dont know what it means to walk with God, u dont know how prayer works, u have no evidence to prove the non-existence of God or eternity.
My conclusion is simple . . , u are NOT qualified to pass a meaningful opinion on spiritual matters. . . . .u are spiritually dead.

[b]The accident is of no use to me [/b]because it causes unnecessary hardsip and pains, the family will loose a lot of resources as a result. I will protect him and not allow him go through such pains if i had the chance, every human will do the same to his friend whom he loves, But God always gets the speacial pleading. . . . .Very telling since God is imaginary. . . . .

and how did u come into this equation?

Give which god glory? he is about to be taken to germany where the doctors will try their best and see if they can make him walk over time. . .If he gets to walk again, it will be as a result of the german doctor's effort not some imaginary deity. . . .

who do u hold responsible if the doctors fail, and he dies in surgery?

Fear and love in the same sentence is that an oxymoron?. . . .Fear god and love him

did u actually read what I wrote?

So when you talk to your god before you travel its not prayers eh?. . . . . . . .Keep on chasing shadows. . . .

No thats not prayers . . . .God is not an alaadin jinn u can make magical wishes to. The sons of God are assured of His promises, they dont make incantations before they travel.

noetic16:

I am sure I stated explicitly that my opinion is a function of personal experience. why EXACTLY is mazaje ignoring this point?

Personal "experince" again eh?. . .Interesting. . . .

1. You are simply spiritually ignorant. Affliction is part of the way a believer is strengthened. Abraham is called the father of faith, yet for 25 years he had no child of his own. Job was a man considered righteous before God, yet he was afflicted and lost all he ever had. David was a man after God's heart, yet he lived as a destitute in the wilderness for 3 years . . . .and many others.

Interesting. . . .Personally I see these stories just as a moral teaching for people to accept the daily realities of life and nature but with God as the basic flavour.

Affliction is part of the christian faith to grow and get strengthened, . . .the fact that u are ignorant of this submission is no fault of mine but yours.

According to your own version of christianity affliction is part of the christian faith. A lot of christians I know will not agree with that hypothesis and as usual they will have biblical verses to support their claims. . .

2. attempting to quantify God's love is just ridiculous. how about getting to know God first.

Were you not the one talking about god's love all these while? . . . .

1. on what basis do u dismiss spiritual experiences. on what basis do u dismiss testimonies of those who have seen heaven and hell from all over the world.

On the basis that every religion that believes in the hell and heaven hypothesis have adherents that have "been" to heaven and hell and came back. I have told you that there is an islamic school of thought that encourages people to have dreams of the prophet mohammed, some claims that he comes and takes them to the other side. . .There are hindus that have "evidence" of people that reincarnated, recanation stories and evidence are all over india, nepal, sri-lanka and other countries, christians also have people that have been to heaven and came back. . . .every body seems to have evidence to support their claims about the after life that agrees with their religious and cultural beliefs. . .What does that tell you?. . .It tells me that they are all lying and deluded. . . . . .

2. on what basis do u dismiss millions of verified personal miracles all over the world? on what basis do u dismiss the promises of God? where is your evidence that eternity does not exist?

I have answered that already. . .What are the miracles? I will like to see any miracle worker heal am amputee and restore the persons amputated limbs. . .My evidence that eternity does not exist is that no body has ever objectively shown that there is any part of the human consciousness that survives bodily death. . .No evidence for the mythical soul is yet to be provided at all. . . .

3. You dont know God, u dont know the meaning of prayers, u dont know what it means to walk with God, u dont know how prayer works, u have no evidence to prove the non-existence of God or eternity.
My conclusion is simple . . , u are NOT qualified to pass a meaningful opinion on spiritual matters. . . . .u are spiritually dead.

who do u hold responsible if the doctors fail, and he dies in surgery?

No body. . .At least they would have tried to save him, something his God could not do. . .
did u actually read what I wrote?

No thats not prayers . . . .God is not an alaadin jinn u can make magical wishes to. The sons of God are assured of His promises, they dont make incantations before they travel.

Sure. . .My friend was not making incantations before he travelled. . . He just like you believes he is a son of your god and he also believes he is assured of his promise. . .

What i perceive in mazaje's anti God posts is a tone of someone that is agitated,hurt or have been dissapointed based on his personal experience as a theist,that took him to atheism. If that be the case,i can understand why he makes such comment as if he were a bad looser.

toba:

What i perceive in mazaje's anti God posts is a tone of someone that is agitated,hurt or have been dissapointed based on his personal experience as a theist,that took him to atheism. If that be the case,i can understand why he makes such comment as if he were a bad looser.

I became an atheist when i realized that the god hypothesis is completely bogus and that all gods were created by men according to their cultural and societal beliefs and values, Non of your ridiculous assertions lead me to leave christianity. . . Actually I consider myself to be a very very lucky person in life because I have never suffered any major disapointment.

Here is what lead me to athiesm.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-316436.0.html

What i perceive in mazaje's anti God posts is a tone of someone that is agitated,hurt or have been dissapointed based on his personal experience as a theist,that took him to atheism. If that be the case,i can understand why he makes such comment as if he were a bad looser.

*shake my head* @ your logic

mazaje:

I became an atheist when i realized that the god hypothesis is completely bogus and that all gods were created by men according to their cultural and societal beliefs and values,

I will agree with u again that all gods were and are created by man, as [size=30pt]GOD[/size] created man who in turn created gods

mazaje:

Non of your ridiculous assertions lead me to leave christianity. . .


Actually I consider myself to be a very very lucky person in life because I have never suffered any major disapointment.

Here is what lead me to athiesm.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-316436.0.html

I believe like every other normal person u would have suffered disappointment and i reckon that upon you realizing that no 'god exist' like you have been made to believe for many years would also amount to disappointment for u having wasted some years believing in myth

Mudley313:

*shake my head* @ your logic

What other better logic do u have to offer?

toba:

What other better logic do u have to offer?

the christians are unfortunately offering weak argument.

unfortunately not everyone who sings and dance praises or worships God. To entail in Godly worship involves a walk with God in holiness and purity.

This is weak. God had from eternity past decreed who will obey Him and who will not. The Bible says "For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ."

So even if the friend is not a true worshipper, then its not his fault.

I go about everyday living my life - even though i profess some christianity, i dont believe the deity is there watching over me. i have no evidence to that effect.

@Mazaje, I've been following your post for a while and I must commend your vast knowledge on religion. Based on your conversion
from Christianity to Atheist, this rapid change influenced your perception of God's love.

I could relate your atheist experience with  that of Sigmund Freud, one the greatest human developmental theorist, psychoanalysis and an atheist . Who believed  Christians are  wasting their time worshipping an invisible heavenly God.  he suggested Christians should take responsible for their actions and they should  stop  believing in this heavenly father. I quite agreed with some of his arguments.
Though, Freud's teachings and theories were recognized and well respected. We cannot say this with his childhood because of  many things went  wrong and thus after his adulthood. For example, history records that Freud's  father was disgraced in the public and he had little or nothing to do with him(Freud).  His mother did little or nothing too. However, Freud grew up with little or no solid relationship with God.  How would people like Freud knows or expressed love  to some else, if they never experience love themselves?  What do you expect from a person like Freud that never had a cordial relationship with his earthly father and not to mention an heavenly father? This shows that background and upbringing, plays a major role in ones life. Whether will accept it or not. we could see the negative influence this role played in Freud's live. The same I think is affecting our brother, Mazaje.

In addition, God is a loving  father just like our earthly parent.  The  probelm with believers and non believers is the  acceptance of responsiblity. This is one thing we should learn from Freud's theory on religion. It means that if any thing happens to us, we should  quit blaming God or questioning God for this or that, rather we should take it as our fate  in life.  Therefore, we should always remember that   God loves us and he will not hesitate to correct us, if this action is required.

a very good friend of mine(we kind of fell apart as a result of my atheism and complete disregard for religion and all it entails, but we still remain close because he feels he some how has the power to show me the "light" recently had an accident and I went to visit him at the family residence after he was discharged from the hospital, others came to visit the family as well. We were all assembled together to pray

Firstly, I was there when the guy was about to travel, he even prayed in my presence for his God to protect him and grant him journey mercies before he embarked on the journey. . . . .

hmm, you were there before the accident and you were also present at the prayer after the accident . . . . .  . . . .  .

tpia.:







hmm, you were there before the accident and you were also present at the prayer after the accident . . . . .  . . . .  .

Insincerity&trying to claim omnipresence