Analytical:

Joagbaje,

I asked you a question you didn't bother to answer.  When Paul talked about Pentecost, was he refering to a Jewish festival, bearing in mind that the church at Ephesus where he was writing from and the church at Corinth he was writing to do not observe any Jewish feast?  They were christian churches.  But all understood what he was talking about.  Or did the Gentile churches observe Jewish festivals?

Maybe I missed your question before. But Paul was still a Jew , He even had a vow. You should know that the early church had their baby stage experience. If Paul for any reason celebrated pentecost which i doubt, Certainly it must be as a Jew and not as a Christian. But there is no proof Paul observed or celebrated pentecost. Remember it was nt just a festival . it was a public holiday like christmas or independence celebration. Paul emphasis on it has to do with the holiday with the people rather than the festival itself. All these has no reference to the holy spirit. But all that apart , our bone of contention is we being called pentecostals because we speak in tongues doesnt make spiritual sense. ofcourse the orthodox churches may labell us that way but that doesnt make us PENTECOSTAL. There is no reference in the early church of connection between the church, the holy spirit  and the pentecost. apart from acts 2.

Let me repeat:  Feast of Pentecost was a Jewish feast until the Holy Spirit came to fulfil prohecies given ages before about the outpouring and enduement with power and the promise of the Father which Jesus spoke about. From thence, it took a christian meaning which the apostles and early church well understood

So is there a bible reference to what point it ceases to be a jewish feast. Do you now celebrate pentecost now?

It is in the same vein that the Feast of Passover took a christian meaning when the Lamb of God was offered as the eternal sacrifice on Good Friday, the day the passover lamb is slaughtered.

Before you misunderstand me, I am not talking about observance or celebration of any particular day.  That will be superficial.  I am talking about the meaning and significance of fulfilment of OT shadows in the NT, which you flippantly refused to acknowledge.

I said in my early post that I am not arguing against the types and shaddow. of the OT.

You make me laugh when you stated Paul didn't have anything against Jewish Feast of Pentecost.  Brother, it seems you have not studied the NT well.  Was he going to a feast with a couple of turtle-doves as sacrifice and a bunch of farm produce to be offered at the altar in the temple before the priests?

Paul was a Jew he had his imperfection. many schollars believed it was Aquilla that did that,while others believe it was Paul who  did it to prove to the jews that he wasnt against their God as many had alleged against him That he did the vow to appease them as he had claimed  in the principle of identification with them.

1 Cor. 9:20
   And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews;

And I ask you, is that the only day in the Jewish calendar that Jews and proselytes come together from all over the world?  Do your study very well.  Why did the Holy Spirit choose to come at this particular celebration and not any other?  Someone just pointed you to Peter's sermon, refering to Joel.  Why did he connect the occurence to a prochecy and not just telling the people that it is because they gathered from all over?

Either you didn't understand my point or you just want to remain at the surface.  Who is talking about being named after Pentecost or prohetic interpretation of 50?  Go over my posts very well.  I have been trying to debunk your assertion that:

1)  The coming of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost was 'mere coincidence' (which you grudgingly have accepted)

2) there is nothing pentecostal about the church and

3) that Pentecost is a Jewish festival

I don't want to go round in circles.  The christian church was born and empowered on Pentecost day when the Promise of the Father (the Holy Spirit) came and that fulfilment of prophecies makes it an integral part of the church of Jesus.  The old has given way to the new and better covenant.  And what a way to confirm that than by the firstruits of the harvest (the multitude that surrendered their lives that day)!  Whatever happened at Asuza was a revival of what used to be, it wasn't the origin.

God bless.

Well my own point is the tagg name  " pentecostals" for christians just because they speak in tongues is wrong. It originated in the early 19 century or thereabout.  We embraced it ignorantly.

Analytical,
I just read your last post. Its now i get your point that You are not dealing with pentecostalism as a name. which was my bone of contention. well our focal points are different. You are dealing with the fact that it was not a coincidence while I was dealing with the name.

@OLAADEGBU, I am doing great. 

OLAADEGBU:

Hi Analytical, how are you doing?

. . . but what amazes me is why folks would label themselves as Baptists, Roman Catholics, Pentecostals, Lutherans, Wesleyans, anglicans and not as Christians, did any of those religions, organisations and individuals die for them? Why do they find it difficult to refer to themselves as Christians or followers of Jesus Christ?

It didn't start today.  It's all carnality.  See  how Paul put it:

1 Corinthians 3

3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

I am proud to say I am a Christian.  No further adjective is needed to qualify that.

God bless you richly.

Joagbaje:

Analytical,
I just read your last post. Its now i get your point that You are not dealing with pentecostalism as a name. which was my bone of contention. well our focal points are different. You are dealing with the fact that it was not a coincidence while I was dealing with the name.

You are just hitting a small part of what I am about.  When we reduce christianity to nomenclatures and obervance of certain days, it takes the Life out of it and what you are left with is just a form of godliness, a mere religion.  That is why I talked about the significance and meaning of things.  Take baptism for example.  Was that originally a christian tradition?  No.  But it took a christian (real) meaning when Christ came.

If Paul for any reason celebrated pentecost which i doubt, Certainly it must be as a Jew and not as a Christian. But there is no proof Paul observed or celebrated pentecost. Remember it was nt just a festival . it was a public holiday like christmas or independence celebration.

Was Paul practising Judaism after he became a christian?  Like I said, look beyond celebration of the day to what the event at Pentecost signifies and the importance or real meaning becomes clear.  Ephesus and Corinth were not Jewish cities.  They were Gentiles and did not observe Jewsih holidays.  Jewish feast (holiday) of pentecost wouldn't have made any sense to them nor have any meaning to them other than the christian experience that happened at Pentecost which I believe Paul, now a christian, was refering to.

So is there a bible reference to what point it ceases to be a jewish feast. Do you now celebrate pentecost now?

The Feast of Pentecost, otherwise called the feast of weeks, is still observed till today in Israel and in Judaism, just as other feasts, including that of Passover.  When we celebrate (even though celebration in itself is nothing without what it signifies) the death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus, are we celebrating Jewish passover?  But we know He is the Passover Lamb!  Christ fulfilled that and to us christians, there is a new meaning to it.

In the same way, the Holy Spirit came at Pentecost and fulfilled the prophecy and promises and to us as christians, there is a whole new meaning to it.  Pentecost to christians is not a festival, it is the coming and baptism of the Holy Spirit, the empowerment of the church and the birth of a new dispensation.

What has been happening is taking an aspect of our faith, or a revelation, and running with it, sometimes as the whole truth, thereby forming denominations of it- baptists, pentecostals etc.  But to label such truths as unchristian is to fall into another error altogether.

God bless.

Analytical:

@OLAADEGBU, I am doing great.

It didn't start today. It's all carnality. See how Paul put it:

1 Corinthians 3

3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

I am proud to say I am a Christian. No further adjective is needed to qualify that.

God bless you richly.

You hit the nail on the head there. No part of a structure should be built without a strong foundation if it is expected to stand. As creation is the foundation of the life of the cosmos, and Jesus Christ was the Creator before He became the Saviour similarly Jesus Christ, first as Creator, then as Redeemer, is the foundation of any true and lasting Christian life. If we are to build with God it must only be on Christ the solid rock, all other ground is sinking sand.

About 90 AD the Twelfth Benediction to the Daily Prayer was added. It read, "For apostate let there be no hope, and the dominion of arrogance do Thou speedily root out in our days; and let Christians and heretics perish in a moment, let them be blotted out of the book of the living and let them not be written with the righteous." There is considerable doubt that the word "Christian" really appeared in this Benediction much before 400 AD when other forces were at work supporting the separation of Christians and Jews. Never-the-less, John 9:22; 12:42; and 16:2 all refer to Christians being put out of the synagogues. Let's read them:

(John 9:22 NKJV) His parents said these things because they feared the Jews, for the Jews had agreed already that if anyone confessed that He was Christ, he would be put out of the synagogue.

(John 12:42 NKJV) Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue;

(John 16:2 NKJV) "They will put you out of the synagogues; yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service.

The Book of John was probably written about 90 AD at a time when the Pharisees were trying to preserve ethnic purity and uphold the law. At any rate, the actions to remove Christians from the synagogue at this time were probably due to individual actions of individual Christians rather than a formal ban of the whole Christian group. The Qumran community, for example, had rules for punishing violators with either temporary or permanent exclusion. I should point out that there were more "heretics" than just Christians in that day.



IV. THE IMPACT OF THE JEWISH REVOLTS AND THE PARTING OF THE WAY

Pontius Pilate, who ruled Israel from 26-37 AD, and other Roman rulers had both military and civil jurisdiction over the Jews. As a result, they were subject to taxation, idolatry, and barbaric forms of punishment such as crucifixions.

While Jews and Jewish Christians initially were equally punished by Rome, by 64 AD, Emperor Nero began to single out Christians for his wrath. Paul apparently died a martyr in about 64 AD, perhaps as a result of being named as party to the great fire which Nero set and blamed on the Christians.

The first Jewish revolt, which I mentioned a moment ago, was fought from 66-73 AD. The war centered near Jerusalem but extended throughout most of Israel. In 70 AD Jerusalem was taken and the Temple destroyed. Tens of thousands of Jews were put to the sword, starved, or enslaved. It took three more years to subdue the rest of the Zealots. Foremost among the remaining battles was the capture of Masada, an isolated fortress overlooking the Dead Sea. When the Romans finally managed to capture it, they found only dead Jews who refused to live under the boot of Rome.

Just before the fall of Jerusalem, the Jewish Christian community fled to Pella, a mountainous community 60 miles northeast of Jerusalem and east of the Jordan River.

Luke 21:20-21 (NIV) "When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. {21} Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city.

The failure of the Christian Jews to support the nationalist movement did much to alienate them from the general population. Charges of treason were thrown at the Christians. Their physical removal severed the religious connection the Jews had with the Christians. At the same time, the Christians were quick to point out that Jerusalem's ruin was the result of God's judgment for rejecting the Messiah. After the revolt some Christians returned to Jerusalem and there was a Christian community in Jerusalem until the second revolt, sixty years later. But following the revolt, only the Pharisees and the Christians survived to contend with each other. The other sects had disappeared.

Following the destruction of the Temple, the Pharisees began a restructuring of Judaism. Rituals of the Temple had to be transferred to the home. Acts of kindness and charity began to replace atonement by sacrifice. As the original Jewish leaders of the Christian church died off, they were replaced by Gentiles who found Christianity more attractive than Judaism due in part by Judaism's insistence on the circumcision of proselytes. As Gentile influence increased in the Church, the centers of Christianity moved to large Gentile cities such as Antioch and Rome.

Worship of the sun god had always been a part of Roman religious practice. Though the early Church observed the Sabbath, the Church at Rome was highly influenced by the Roman Sunday holy day and arguments regarding the date of Christ's resurrection. The influence of Judaism was decaying. Ignatius, bishop of Antioch, indicated that the change from Saturday to Sunday had begun to take place as early as 115 AD. In 120 AD he wrote, "no longer live for the Sabbath but for the Lord's day, on which day our life arose". The Jewish community saw this change as a rejection of the Law, the very heart of Judaism. The Christian community saw this as a rejection of Judaism and the Old Covenant in favor of what they perceived to be a New Covenant. The gap between Jews and Christians continued to widen at a quickening pace.

The First Jewish Revolt had been a decisive turning point in the relation of Judaism to Christianity. But the war of 132-135 AD was, for all essential purposes, the final major national blow that severed the two communities. Simon, popularly known as Bar Kokhba ("son of a star" led the revolt. He laid claim to messiahship and other influential people upheld his claim. Worship resumed at the Temple and supplies and men were mobilized for war against Rome. At the end of the war half a million Jews lay dead and Judea lay in ruins. Every building in Jerusalem was leveled and the city plowed. The Romans populated the city with Greek-speaking pagans and forbade Jews from entering the city on penalty of death.

As they had in the First Jewish Revolt, the Christians refused to fight. Failure to assist their countrymen in this final ill-fated drive for national independence alienated them even further from the Jewish community and left them more vulnerable to persecution. Christians could not have two Messiahs. They chose Jesus of Nazareth. Commitment to the cause of Bar Kokhba would have meant the denial of the Messiahship of Jesus. Those Christian Jews who had tried to hold on to Judaism, who had associated themselves with the root of Israel, were forced to dissociate themselves from it. Whereas Judaism had thus far rejected Christianity and their Messiah, now Christianity had to reject Judaism and its messiah.

http://www.studiesintheword.org/Church%20vs%20Synagogue.htm